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[Jeffrey]

Video is obvious. I have 4k blurays they look good.


Playing with some game settings... 4k vs 1080p is most apparent once I turn off every anti aliasing and most post processing, but once I turn everything on and start walking around, not really feeling a huge jump in iq unless I'm switching between resolutions constantly for comparison.

 

[Markitron]

That is the one thing along with 4K that I still haven't really seen. Or well, I did see it on my brother's KS8000 but haven't been able to directly compare it to a screen that doesn't have HDR and 4k.

HDR basically greatly improves the colours and things like sun effect, right?

It's implementation differs depending on the source, in general the expanded colour palette makes everything look more natural. When you are watching in HDR for an extended time and switch back to SDR, the colours tends to look massively saturated.

 

[Madness]

The further back you sit, the larger the screen you will need. Though I disagree with theae rudimentary charts at times. I think 4K with HDR is a far greater jump than 720p/1080i to 1080p was. Heck maybe as big as 480i/480p to HD.

8K and beyond will hit diminishing returns because you will need larger and larger sizes to display more than 4K. But downsampled 8K looks amazing on 4K.

 

[tkscz]

Isn't there a distance from TV to resolution chart going around on GAF? Thought it was just known that the further you were away from the TV, the less of a difference you notice between 1080p + AA vs 4K.

Edit: right as I post this.

 

[ShadowKingpin]

FFXV was a massive step-up for it's 4K mode. I was incredibly impressed with it. I can tell a difference in the clarity of the image when comparing 1080p to 4K, but it's usually the more detail in the background and other areas that really shines.

 

[JackAubrey]

That is the one thing along with 4K that I still haven't really seen. Or well, I did see it on my brother's KS8000 but haven't been able to directly compare it to a screen that doesn't have HDR and 4k.

HDR basically greatly improves the colours and things like sun effect, right?

HDR makes bright things really bright - sparks, light, explosions, light. It also makes things like metallic surfaces look genuinely shiny. And overall the colour and light is much more natural.

 

[bomblord1]

LG 55" 4K TV here. At about 7 foot away I can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4k PS4 PRO games.

In fact 720p/900p games on the switch don't look significantly less crisp than a full 1080p or 4k image.

 

[Markitron]

In fact 720p/900p games on the switch don't look noticeably less crisp than a full 1080p or 4k image.

I had to stop playing BotW on the TV as the low res was getting distracting. Mario Kart looks fine though.

I had the same problem when I recently loaded up Battefront on the PS4.

 

[breakfuss]

BotW looks terrible on my ks8000 lawwwwwd lol.

Also, doesn't it seem the Switch's menu/home/mii screens are soft as hell?

 

[Jeffrey]

BotW looks terrible on my ks8000 lawwwwwd lol.

Also, doesn't it seem the Switch's menu/home screen is soft as hell?

Yes.

Switch menu is 720p for some reason lol.

 

[MaximusPayne]

The size of the TV matters a lot. My first 4k game on my tv, which was TLOU, was worth a full play through.

It all depends on the setup, I guess.

Stores like Best Buy wouldn't have the extravagant set-ups if it wasn't a difference and made them money.

 

[leng jai]

It's not as pronounced as the jump from 480p to 1080p, but there's still a tangible difference. The same people who claim there's no difference probably said the same thing about SD/HD, think 30fps is the same as 60fps and somehow don't notice input lag/frame pacing and screen tearing.

BOTW docked looks poor even on my 42inch 1080p plasma.

 

[Peltz]

And unless you're in a studio apartment or rocking 75"+ it's a very minimal difference at normal viewing distances with similar quality panels. I find a lot of justification of purchase comes into the 4K tv conversation. Many people upgrade to 4K from mediocre edge lit LCD and attribute all the improvements they see to the resolution. If you want noticeable difference at any distance, it is actually high nit HDR. Far more noticeable and impressive.

Good call on this to an extent, but I feel like a lot of people saying there's a big difference are comparing 1080p vs. 4k content on the same 4k screen.

BotW looks terrible on my ks8000 lawwwwwd lol.

Also, doesn't it seem the Switch's menu/home/mii screens are soft as hell?

Switch's menu interface and Mii screens are 720p.

 

[topplehat]

I'm with OP here, but I know there is a lot of post processing my TV does to improve image quality and that may be a factor too.

 

[GodofWine]

Better resolution is only worth it if you sit close / have a BIG tv, those viewing distance/size charts that people like to poke fun at do tell a mostly accurate story.


Then consider many people dont have 20/20 vision and the point of having all those pixels really gets lost.

(also, movies look so weird at high resolutions, being able to clearly tell all the sets and props are fake as hell is a weird benefit to 4k movies)

 

[TGO]

i'm sitting about 12 feet away from my 55" tv.

Maybe i'm focusing my eyes on the wrong stuff? What details should I be staring at that differentiates 1080p vs 4k?

Well with 1080p the picture is pretty sharp and clean this applies to 4k too except that sign in the distance is sharp as it would be if it was up close and particles are sharp as fuck too even in the background.
It is hard if you don't know what you're looking for but the difference is there.

 

[Markitron]

Well with 1080p the picture is pretty sharp and clean this applies to 4k too except that sign in the distance is sharp as it would be if it was up close and particles are sharp as fuck too even in the background.
It is hard if you don't know what you're looking for but the difference is there.

It's most noticeable when you are going back to 1080p after a while of viewing 4K, it just looks softer.

 

[CrayToes]

I've got the same TV and the difference is very noticeable imo.

 

[veloxStrix]

Another chart with a bit more information. In case someone is interested.

 

[LordOfChaos]

HDR, which usually only comes on higher end sets, is the bigger difference IMO. HDR+4K from a high quality source like UHD BD looks stunning and clearly an upgrade from 1080p.

4K sets that were just straight panel upgrades from existing inexpensive 1080p TVs, not so much of an upgrade without being within arms length.

Another chart with a bit more information. In case someone is interested.

I remember this from the 7th gen console wars about 720p vs 1080p, lol. But I think it was built with outdated assumptions, human eyes can detect non straight lines at higher PPIs than it (or steve jobs) suggests.

 

[daman824]

No. Playing watch dogs 2 on my ogps4 vs my PS4 pro is night and day. And it's not even running at 4K on the pro.

And that's not sitting right next to the screen either. If you can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4K, I'd get your eyes checked

 

[MyleMan1010]

I have 2 55" Sony TV's mounted next to each other in my game room. A 4K HDR (XBR 900E) and a 1080p, 3D Sony Bravia from like 6 years ago. I sit about 8ft away and the difference is huge when I play a UHD and BD movie side by side. Yes, the HDR is the biggest difference, but it's easy to tell the resolution differences as well. I watched The Revenant yesterday, and the ground, hair, fabric and foliage looked far clearer and detailed. I have a 65" LG uh7700 in my living room and I sit 10'+ away from that. The resolution bump isn't quite as noticeable there, but again the HDR is a bonus.

 

[Smokey]

4K is mostly marketing, some improvement can be seen, but it's subtle at normal viewing distances on average sized TV's, something that may sell TV's, but does little in reality for the customer, except possibly a placebo effect for some

placebo effect?

do you know what that means?

because if you did you'd realize how wrong you are in this instance.

 

[veloxStrix]

placebo effect?

do you know what that means?

because if you did you'd realize how wrong you are in this instance.

pla·ce·bo ef·fect
/pləˈsēbō əˈfekt,ēˈfekt/
noun
noun: placebo effect; plural noun: placebo effects

--- a beneficial effect, produced by a placebo drug or treatment, that cannot be attributed to the properties of the placebo itself, and must therefore be due to the patient's belief in that treatment.

I think, abstracting the placebo effect from drugs, the term seems pretty on the dot here. I'm sure there are many people who don't get the most out of their 4K sets but notice a huge difference... because they just spent a decent amount of money on it.

 

[MacGurcules]

I remember this from the 7th gen console wars about 720p vs 1080p, lol. But I think it was built with outdated assumptions, human eyes can detect non straight lines at higher PPIs than it suggests.

Yep. Those charts are bullshit. Real world tests show time and again that there's more to it than simple static resolving power of the human eye.

 

[veloxStrix]

Yep. Those charts are bullshit. Real world tests show time and again that there's more to it than simple static resolving power of the human eye.

It's weird then that Sony and THX verify most of the ideas on ideal distance. "Real world tests" are probably the least effective tests of anything since so many biases are possible.

 

[mrklaw]

Massive cinema screens use 4k and look great, so sitting 10ft from a 50" screen there probably isn't as dramatic a difference.

Also I think the difference is something you notice more going back. You get used to 4k, and think 'hmm I remember 1080p being like this' - then switch to something actually 1080p and it's noticeably less clear

 

[breakfuss]

Another chart with a bit more information. In case someone is interested.

Sooo with a 60"/65" you have to sit approx. 6 feet away. What? Who sits that close to a big ass TV?

 

[Syrus]

The further back you sit, the larger the screen you will need. Though I disagree with theae rudimentary charts at times. I think 4K with HDR is a far greater jump than 720p/1080i to 1080p was. Heck maybe as big as 480i/480p to HD.

8K and beyond will hit diminishing returns because you will need larger and larger sizes to display more than 4K. But downsampled 8K looks amazing on 4K.

That picture is so full of shit.

There is NOT a single instance where something in 4k native is not worth it over 1080p.

This is as rediculous as 720p is gine shit that went on start of gen

 

[The Elite]

Anyone who tells me they can't see the difference should check out American Gods via 4k streaming from Amazon Prime. There is a huge leap for me in 4k. It's definitely my go to demo now.

 

[pestul]

We sit 14ft away from head to screen in our living room. I just upgraded to a 55" 1080p TV and even with 20/10 vision, I'm positive I couldn't see the difference 4K would make. According to most charts I'd need 100" or larger lol. The worst of it is that my wife wants to wall mount this TV which will move it back another 1 1/2ft.

 

[KingV]

Viewing distance matters. Not sure why this is being left out of this discussion. Without that factor it's pointless to discuss any of this.

Viewing distance and also screen size. 4K might not be noticeable to many people on a 40" at 12 feet but would be if it's a 80" projector.

Similarly at my desk I could probably notice 4K on a 27" monitor.

 

[family_guy]

I sit 9 feet away from a 65KS8000. It's not a night and day difference as far as resolution goes. HDR has been the real benefit.

 

[franklyshankly]

I have a 65 inch 4k and I personally agree a lot of the time I cant tell a huge difference.

But I think some of that may be the scaling of the tv. You're seeing 1080p upscaled to 4k, so while obviously it's not 4k it's not the same comparison as looking side by side at a 65 inch 1080p TV vs a 65 inch 4k tv.

The difference between 1440p and 4k I almost never can tell a difference from couch distance. If I get up and pixel peeping the screen the difference is obvious of course.

 

[BigEmil]

Yall must be blind, use some native 4k video content even on YouTube, going from 4k video to a 1080p video is blur tastier it's like I've cleaned my screen with vasoline watching the 1080p video. There's details etc you simply couldn't see in 1080p also just the simply iq step up is great.

Your noticing a bigger difference on YouTube because of YouTube compression so it's more noticeable when you select higher resolution options

 

[MTC100]

got a ks8000 recently

That's only 55", right? That's a size where you have to be pretty close to really notice the benefit of 4k.

Here's a graph:

To really tell a difference you'd need to sit about 1.2-1.5m away from the screen at most, I don't think you're doing that with a 55" TV. I wouldn't buy anything 4k below 60" as you have to sit very close to really benefit of the higher pixel count. -Though even with 60" 4K seems a bit like overkill, it's just the way it is. The image will look sharper either way but to really benefit from the increase in resolution you'll need to sit very close.

PC Monitors are different as your view distance is much smaller than with your average TV so they get away with being 32" or something.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Those charts above are built with outdated assumptions about human vision. Same as when in 2010 or whatever, Steve Jobs introduced Retina as more pixels than you can resolve, though you can clearly see the pixels on text and circles on an iPhone not-plus.

http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/eyesight-4k-resolution-viewing

http://www.techspot.com/article/1113-4k-monitor-see-difference/

You need to look at arc-minutes rather than PPI, there's also benefits past where you can't see pixels. These are better.

 

[MTC100]

Those charts above are built with outdated assumptions about human vision.

This might be true as they don't include the viewing angle and how it affects the image we perceive, as the eye has a certain range where it's able to see very fine details. I agree with you that higher resolution will always be a benefit as it will look smoother, though it isn't really worth much it if you sit 4m away from an 55" TV for example, you will barely see any difference to the 1080p TV, at best you will "feel" the difference as it will look sharper/better with a 4K resolution (well, also depending on your eyesight of course).

There's also one thing to consider I think, we modern day humans are all training our eyes to short viewing distances(smartphones and PCs at work or at home), there are statistics that say most of the population of first world countries will have short vision within the next coming decades. So it makes even more sense to have a TV placed at most 2.5m-3m away from yourself.

The chart holds true for at least 720p and 1080p though, I currently have a 50" Bravia and when I played 720p games on it I was already feeling uncomfortable at about 3m away, which the chart suggests as the minimum distance for such a content. Of cource 720p isn't 720p, a very good bluray encode that is running at 720p could be viewed at 2m too but that's a different story entirely. I also use my TV as a monitor so I get a really clean 1080p signal form my PC for it and I found that the image looks best at around 2-2.5m distance, getting in closer will let me view the pixels, getting away more won't let me see the finer details if there are any. So in this case at least, those graphs do make sense, at least for me.

That said, I will be getting a 4k TV within the next year and it will most likely have about 60" and I'll keep my viewing distance at around 2.5m, I think this will be a pretty big leap in image quality

 

[The Real Abed]

Some of us simply have better eyes than others. That's all there is to it. I can see the difference, some people can't.

My mom can't even see the difference between the highly compressed window boxed SD signal and the super clear 1080p signal of the same broadcast.

 

[GermanZepp]

1080p with good quality AA is not far off from 4k native without AA, infact it can look better on my 4k TV.

4k with high quality AA however looks stunning.

This, or something similar happens in Horizon with the 4K mode and performance mode.

Performance at 1080p as better AA that 4k. Weird.

In other hand went to my friends place and see Horizon on a old 32" fat led tv and looks nothing like my tv.

The PS4pro and the HDR makes a real diference.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

4K looks a ton better. Maybe not a generational leap for me (I have pretty bad vision without glasses) but I can tell a substantial difference between the two. There isn't tons of watch content but I crank the resolution up to 4K on every game my peasant tier 1070 can handle, even at the expense of graphical settings.

 

[RoboPlato]

1080p versus 4k is clear but for me it gets tougher to tell at ~1620p and above.

 

[falconxcrunner09]

It's a way bigger visual jump from 480p to 1080p compared to 1080p to 4K, at least for me. I was kinda disappointed on the jump and was expecting more besides just better picture clarity.

The difference between 720p and 4K is very jarring however. I hooked up my PS3 to my 4K tv and the games looked awful on it lol.

 

[Buggy Loop]

http://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4k-calculator/

The calculator even has a vision input if you are not 20/20.

 

[-hadouken]

Nope.

I've been playing at 1440p/4K for almost a year now, and going back to 1080p is a very noticeable downgrade.

Assuming you're talking about PS4 Pro? If so, have you seen games like BF1 super sampled on a 1080P set? The 1920x1080 grid looks great when being fed by higher resolutions.

As noted in my other post, I have a 4K set in the living room (you can't escape them now) but I still feel that targeting 4K was unnecessary for gaming when super sampling has such a potent impact on IQ. Especially at a distance or on a smaller set (I game on a 32 inch 1080 PC monitor.)

 

[Syrus]

5 feet away from 65 inch TV seems vlose doesnt it?

 

[Aske]

5 feet away from 65 inch TV seems vlose doesnt it?

I'm 6' away from my 65" screen, and it's perfect. Feels like exactly the right size for my space, and in terms of perspective, it's essentially like watching one of those smaller cinema screens from the first two or three rows at the back of the theatre.

My set up is in an apartment, and it'll probably only work in the basement of a house. Bigger room needs a significantly larger TV so you can sit further away and still have the intended experience.

 

[primasaurus]

placebo effect?

do you know what that means?

because if you did you'd realize how wrong you are in this instance.

You really should try and understand these concepts before you judge others

It's mostly associated with medicine, but the basic principle can work with any situation, as it's a state of mind that can affect what we perceive, which is common in many aspects of life

Having a strong belief in something being better is sometimes enough for it to actually appear so to the believer, it's a well understood human condition, but most of us are unaware when it happens to ourselves, or we may even be offended when it is pointed out to us

 

[ACH1LL3US]

I think it's a night and day difference, fire up the Witcher 3 rendered at 1080p then 4k and get back to me.

100% agree with this!

I at first didn't think it would be a large difference but after playing 4k native games on a 55 oled versus 1080p is a massive, massive difference!

For those that can't see a difference, what distance and size of the screen are you using?

I ask because the difference from 720p to 1080p was a huge jump and I feel the difference is just as noticeable if not even more going from 1080p to 4k.

Clarity, much less baggies and things in the distance look so much clearer it's not even funny.

 

[Syrus]

I'm 6' away from my 65" screen, and it's perfect. Feels like exactly the right size for my space, and in terms of perspective, it's essentially like watching one of those smaller cinema screens from the first two or three rows at the back of the theatre.

My set up is in an apartment, and it'll probably only work in the basement of a house. Bigger room needs a significantly larger TV so you can sit further away and still have the intended experience.

Im a AV-phobe a little.

Are you 6 feet to your head or start of couch or chair?