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[Eteric Rice]

oh HV's game is going to do very well and you can quote me around this time next year on that.

Its going to sell and sell very very well

I don't know about that. They're trying to compete with other, similar games on other systems that have way better visuals and online.

I think if you're going to make something on the Wii, it needs to be unique as hell to turn heads. Red Steel 2 is a good example. The setting alone is fucking awesome.

 

[billy.sea]

It's about money.
You think Sony didn't make a deal with Konami to make MGS4 exclusive to PS3 or MGS games for PSP?

 

[fabprems]

I'll simplify this for you guys. It's not hard.

Imagine if EA, Ubisoft, and R* combined to create their own hardware(...) They'd still be smaller than Nintendo.

If I'm not mistaken, EA = 8000 employees > ubi = 5000 > nintendo = 1200.

I assume you were talking in $$$$ ?

 

[Eteric Rice]

If I'm not mistaken, EA = 8000 employees > ubi = 5000 > nintendo = 1200.

I assume you were talking in $$$$ ?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're talking cash.

Nintendo is run like a well oiled machine, though.

 

[Zoramon089]

What I don't understand it why people claim that Nintendo still isn't getting good 3rd party support. Because it's not getting "main" titles in franchises, they're all of a sudden shitty B grade quality? This is a stupid mentality that needs to stop. Anyway, there's a bunch of specific things I've seen in the thread I want to address

1. Nintendo didn't showcase 3rd party games at their conference
Uhh, why devote time to games 3rd parties already showed at their own conferences? Ubisoft had an on stage Red Steel 2 demo and Rabbids demo, did we REALLY need to seem them again for Nintendo to show "support" for Ubi? No, because it would be a WASTE OF TIME

2. PSP is getting "bigger" titles than the Wii
Again, you're being fulled into thinking main title=big title. You really think Soul Calibur isn't just a quick port with added features? Sure they could downgrade SC4 to the Wii but what would be the point? Sure the MGS title is in the main series but I seriously doubt Kojima is taking the role he took with the other games for it. And the only reason you consider it main series is because it actually fits in with the story of the other games, right? By that same line of thinking Dead Space Extraction for the Wii is a main series Dead Space game and not a spinoff. See what I did there?

3. I bet ANYONE here would have no qualms in hyping up the new Raiden game as a "big" title even though Kojima isn't involved at all and it's a spinoff yet something like FF:Crystal Bearers for the Wii which is also clearly a well conceived titled is simply passed off as a B grade spinoff for absolutely no reason. You guys didn't pull this crap when FFTactics were announced yet, because it's on the Wii, it's simply a crappy spinoff...

4. Wii game marketing budgets are the same proportion of total development budgets as PS3/360 games

Wii games cost WAY WAY less to create than games on the HD consoles and devs simply allocate less money towards them so this is turn means marketing gets nothing substantial for advertising. Funny how that works, huh?

Also despite what you guys may think about the Wii's lack of 3rd party support, the fact of the matter is it had the most 3rd party exclusives of either of the other consoles

Red Steel 2
Rabbids Go Home
Dead Space Extraction
RE: Darkside Chronicles
Grand Slam Tennis
FF: Crystal Bearers
Spyborgs
Monster Hunter 3
The Conduit
Murasama

Of course you guys will probably pass these off as low quality titles using some arbitrary guidelines (because they're not HD, because they aren't appearing on the PS3/360)

 

[donny2112]

And so are shareholders.

Typical shareholders don't have much of a clue what's going on in the video game market beyond what they're told by analysts or the company they have shares in, and we've already been over how most analysts and companies view the Wii.

 

[mentalfloss]

Um, Wii probably has the best line up of E3 if you ask me - both first party and third party.

 

[billy.sea]

For some reason, ALMOST ALL high-profile developers love to make mature rated titles, to a point that it feels like only mature rated title are capable of showing the developer's strength/skills. Just look at all the biggest profile game over the last few years,

GTA
Bioshock
Call of Duty
Metal Gear Solid

And that is not the market Nintendo is after.

When high profile games that are not mature focus, like the music games Rock Band and Guitar Hero, they sold millions and sold the best on the Nintendo system.

Wonder why the high profiled developers can't go outside the mature rated game market.

 

[thefro]

I don't know about that. They're trying to compete with other, similar games on other systems that have way better visuals and online.

I think if you're going to make something on the Wii, it needs to be unique as hell to turn heads. Red Steel 2 is a good example. The setting alone is fucking awesome.

The pointer controls being perfected are what makes it unique... and the fact that it's a Wii game with seemingly decent online.

There is a solid fanbase of FPS Wii players... both Call of Duty ports did very well. Same with Red Steel.

Conduit will sell > 1 million WW fairly easily if the reviews are in the 8 range or better.

 

[donny2112]

And the only reason you consider it main series is because it actually fits in with the story of the other games, right? By that same line of thinking Dead Space Extraction for the Wii is a main series Dead Space game and not a spinoff. See what I did there?

I must've missed the part where MGSO was a on-rails shooter. Nice comparison!

If Dead Space Extraction was the same kind of gameplay as Dead Space with RE4 controls, I'd be counting down the days until its release with great anticipation. On-rails shooter? No thanks (for me personally; others like that genre just fine).

Conduit will sell > 1 million in the U.S. fairly easily

Fixed.

 

[Spiegel]

Development kits for PSP are now 80% cheaper.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23891

Maybe Sony is trying harder.

Again, you're being fulled into thinking main title=big title. You really think Soul Calibur isn't just a quick port with added features? Sure they could downgrade SC4 to the Wii but what would be the point? Sure the MGS title is in the main series but I seriously doubt Kojima is taking the role he took with the other games for it. And the only reason you consider it main series is because it actually fits in with the story of the other games, right? By that same line of thinking Dead Space Extraction for the Wii is a main series Dead Space game and not a spinoff. See what I did there?

A quick port with added features of a good game (SC4) is better than a bad, quick spinoff (SCL)

And Kojima is writting, directing and producing Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker.
On the other hand, he's only producing Metal Gear Rising

 

[Scrubking]

Conduit will sell > 1 million in the U.S. fairly easily

I think the idea that the conduit will bomb is pretty baseless considering that just about every fps on Wii has been a success. Even Onslaught has been in the top 10 Wiiware games for months.

 

[PantherLotus]

I think the idea that the conduit will bomb is pretty baseless considering that just about every fps on Wii has been a success. Even Onslaught has been in the top 10 Wiiware games for months.

The Conduit will bomb.

 

[Doubledex]

Well, after seeing the 3 conferences there's something I'm wondering.
I've been doing myself a question about 3rd parties relationship with Nintendo. During the N64 and gamecube era there was almost no 3rd party support because Nintendo were in last position and so there wasn't many reasons to develop for them.
Now when the Wii started to outsell all the other consoles I believed that Nintendo caught them by surprise, nobody expected them to be the leaders this gen. After some time and without much support I thought there must be something else.
Then as a programmer myself I believed in the theory that the programmers want to develop for the most powerful systems and not for something like the wii. I also believed that the missconception that 3rd party software doesn't sell was influencing third parties.

But now, after seeing the Sony conference I don't understand nothing at all. If the reason that 3rd parties doesn't want to make games for a weak system is true, how does the PSP get a new MGS, made by hideo kojima himself?? And if the reason about 3rd parties not selling is true, how does the PSP get a new Resident Evil while the Wii can only get shooters?

Now I'm starting to believe that the problem is in Nintendo itself rather than on 3rd parties so what's the problem with Nintendo?

Casual-Gamer/Games = Wii
"Hardcore-Gamers/Games" = PS3/PSP/Xbox360



/thread

 

[donny2112]

Even Onslaught has been in the top 10 Wiiware games for months.

If the control customization allowed a much smaller bounding box (ala. The Conduit), I'd have bought it, too.

The Conduit will be the bomb.

Fixed.

 

[jehuty]

Well Sega better start the hype train for The Conduit and start it soon. Word of mouth will only get a game so far. Will it bomb? Probably not, but I don't think it will set the sales world afire to start either. If anything it will sell gradually.

As to third parties not supporting the Wii, it can't be helped and there is nothing we can do about it. You usually get what you put into something and third party offering on the wii have been for the most part sub-par. Just support the developers that are actually trying.

 

[onesvenus]

Casual-Gamer/Games = Wii
"Hardcore-Gamers/Games" = PS3/PSP/Xbox360



/thread

You could try to provide a more thought answer.
I suppose that you say that because the majority of games for each platform is as you said but that doesn't mean that a casual game can't sell on the PS3 (see singstar) or that a hardcore game can't sell on the Wii.
And I know that making a casual game on the Wii would get more money than a hardcore game but, if the decision is between making it for the PSP or the Wii, I think that even if it sells bad on the Wii it should at least match what it would sell on the PSP.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I'll simplify this for you guys. It's not hard.

Imagine if EA, Ubisoft, and R* combined to create their own hardware. They have inside access to all the hardware tricks and tools, all their franchises, and all the marketing power of the biggest video game software company in the world -- and first dibs in every single market, every single month. They'd still be smaller than Nintendo.

Competition is a funny thing. The only way to take advantage of Nintendo's massive targeted demographic (children 6-36) is to do what Nintendon't, to quote SEGA's successful marketing campaign. That does not mean FPS, RTS, and jRPG. That means find something that target likes but Nintendo doesn't make. Guitar Hero is a perfect example of a successfully leveraged market that does not cut into Nintendo's market share. Simplified sports games are another way. I think EA will be massively successful with their excercise software.

But if you want GTA, FPS games, Final Fantasy w/e, etc...forget it. Too much competition.

...On the Wii? You've completely lost me Panther.

 

[adama-rama]

The funny thing is, the Wii isn't all that different to any other console in many respects. It has an audience comprised of many different groups and each of them wants games designed for them.

Thing is, no ONE company can provide all the games for all the gamers. Nintendo has it's games, and they want 3rd party publishers to provide the games Nintendo doesn't/can't/won't provide. They've said so themselves many times (yet many people here ignore that)

Why would Nintendo want 3rd parties to be successful on the Wii? Money. Simple as that. For every 3rd party game sold in a genre/game type Nintendo doesn't cater for, Nintendo gets money. Easy money. If someone buys a Wii because the combined 1st/3rd party titles convince them, Nintendo get's money. It's in their interest to have 3rd parties succeed on the Wii.

There are plenty of untapped markets on the Wii. There will be plenty of Wii games released over the next few years that will surprise lots of people with their huge success, simply because they hit a large market that has been ignored.

Nintendo has found their market on the Wii. 3rd parties need to find theirs.

As to why the PSP gets certain games and the Wii doesn't...probably depends on a case by case basis. But it makes no sense for Soul Calibur to not have a proper version on the Wii, considering the success of SC2 on the Gamecube.

 

[soldat7]

This thread is filled with misinformation of the grossest sort.

Ask Nintendo or the various third-party publishers then. Everything related to this topic is circumstantial and speculative.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Just wanted to quote this.

NL: With that in mind, did Nintendo give you a lot of support to get to grips with MotionPlus?

JV: Oh yeah, they were great. We got our first MotionPlus a few weeks before it was officially announced, and we were like "now we can do it!". Nintendo were great though, they gave us loads of early libraries for MotionPlus and really gave us a lot of support. In a wider sense we worked very closely with the guys over at Retro Studios, and the producer of Metroid Prime came to work with us and gave us a lot of insight into how they handled things.

Yeah, no one knew about Motion + before it was announced right? Nintendo doesn't help third parties, right? Nintendo doesn't share it's techniques with third parties, right?

 

[Sadist]

I believe Nintendo en Ubisoft apparently are BFF.

Spoiler

For now

 

[Eteric Rice]

I believe Nintendo en Ubisoft apparently are BFF.

Spoiler

For now

Then why isn't an Assassin's Creed or Prince of Persia (non GC port) on the Wii yet?

 

[I AM JOHN!]

The answer is simple: Nintendo cannibalizes the market on their system and makes it obscenely difficult for a third-party game to do well. They always have and they always will.

 

[cws]

Then why isn't an Assassin's Creed or Prince of Persia (non GC port) on the Wii yet?

Becaue they are already bringing Anno, Rabbids Go Home, Red Steel 2, TMNT and Co. exklusive on Wii this year ?

 

[Sadist]

Then why isn't an Assassin's Creed or Prince of Persia (non GC port) on the Wii yet?

Well, looking at the PSP game it would be possible yes. If it isn't bullshots. Guess the PoP port didn't sell enough. *ahem*

 

[Eteric Rice]

The answer is simple: Nintendo cannibalizes the market on their system and makes it obscenely difficult for a third-party game to do well. They always have and they always will.

I call bullshit in this as well. Nintendo makes a lot of games, but there's tons of genres that Nintendo doesn't dabble in. Stop trying to follow Nintendo and do what they do well, and maybe they'll have some success.

 

[agrajag]

I don't know about that. They're trying to compete with other, similar games on other systems that have way better visuals and online.

I think if you're going to make something on the Wii, it needs to be unique as hell to turn heads. Red Steel 2 is a good example. The setting alone is fucking awesome.

How can they compete with game on other systems. That's like saying that a product that's exclusive to one region is competing with products on other regions. The only remotely similar game on Wii that The Conduit is competing with is Metroid (fps with aliens). There are many Wii-only console owners that are starved for some traditional fps action, I'll wager.

 

[schuelma]

The answer is simple: Nintendo cannibalizes the market on their system and makes it obscenely difficult for a third-party game to do well. They always have and they always will.

OH MY GOD ITS SO SIMPLE

I would bring up how a third party game sold 600K in less than two weeks while competing against a 1st party game that is more successful than the PS3, but I'm sure that wouldn't count since it's not a "real" game.

 

[schuelma]

I call bullshit in this as well. Nintendo makes a lot of games, but there's tons of genres that Nintendo doesn't dabble in. Stop trying to follow Nintendo and do what they do well, and maybe they'll have some success.

Hell they can even have success if they follow Nintendo by actually making a quality product and treating it as such.

 

[Eteric Rice]

How can they compete with game on other systems. That's like saying that a product that's exclusive to one region is competing with products on other regions. The only remotely similar game on Wii that The Conduit is competing with is Metroid (fps with aliens). There are many Wii-only console owners that are starved for some traditional fps action, I'll wager.

Potentially, but I still don't see it doing all that well. There's just nothing about it that makes it really interesting.

Also, there are a lot of multi-console owners as well. I'd be trying to grab their attention too.

 

[Zoramon089]

The answer is simple: Nintendo cannibalizes the market on their system and makes it obscenely difficult for a third-party game to do well. They always have and they always will.

I really wish people would think before they posted...

1st half of 2008 Nintendo released FOUR games:
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Wii Fit
Mario Kart Wii

3rd parties meanwhile released dozens.

2nd half they released:
Mario Super Sluggers
Animal Crossing: CF
Wario Land Shake
Wii Music

3rd parties again released dozens of games. Wow, Nintendo sure is making it difficult for 3rd parties to suceed, cannibalizing the market with their whole SEVEN games released over the course of AN ENTIRE YEAR

 

[Epiphyte]

OH MY GOD ITS SO SIMPLE

I would bring up how a third party game sold 600K in less than two weeks while competing against a 1st party game that is more successful than the PS3, but I'm sure that wouldn't count since it's not a "real" game.

There is no argument that won't be countered with a "Yes, but [insert random bomba here]"

Better to just let them keep their delusions

 

[agrajag]

Potentially, but I still don't see it doing all that well. There's just nothing about it that makes it really interesting.

Also, there are a lot of multi-console owners as well. I'd be trying to grab their attention too.

It has a lot going for it. From what I hear it has good level design, fast paced action, nice visuals (for a Wii game), fully customizable hud and control sensetivity. It's a very ambitious project with a lot of effort behind it, I find it rather compelling myself.

 

[drakesfortune]

I'll be very surprised if the Conduit sells more than 500k, and wouldn't be shocked if it did less than 250k. Shit, WaW did like 1.2 million, and that's like THE first person shooter name that has penetrated the minds of the masses. If WaW only does 1.2 million on Wii (I say only because it's over 3.25 million on PS3 and around 6 million on 360), Conduit isn't going to come anywhere near that number. It's a new IP, no name, and it's in a genre that has a small but faithful following on Wii, but it's a small following nonetheless. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I honestly think that even with a rating above 90 on metacritic it'll sell no more than 500k if it's really successful.

 

[Vinci]

The answer is simple: Nintendo cannibalizes the market on their system and makes it obscenely difficult for a third-party game to do well. They always have and they always will.

The answer is simpler: Unaccustomed to developing heavily for Nintendo systems, 3rd parties saw what Nintendo did and then did it, but cheaply. And when I say 'cheaply,' I mean not only in terms of budget but in terms of quality as well. They decided to largely ignore putting any traditional games on the thing and felt it required they massively shift their development style in order to compete on. This fed the market mostly worthless shit and failed to grow it adequately for their future efforts. Gamers who grabbed the thing were later faced with a drought and bailed; some selling the thing, some going on message boards and discussing their failures in domestic cleaning.

The truth of the matter is this: The problem with the Wii's market is due to 3rd parties imagining that a Nintendo console is somehow completely different from any other; imagining that, like Malstrom envisions, that if you aren't doing something disruptive on the thing, you aren't doing it right. This is mostly bullshit. Markets aren't born overnight, they're grown. And in this instance, 3rd parties grew the market in a direction that made their success and impact on the system's installbase scant.

The Wii market was not manufactured by Nintendo. Sure, they released some 'casual' games but it's not as if they stopped developing their more traditional offerings. Hell, they released more in the first year and half than they have in recent memory. They bombshelled the thing with content, from new age to traditional, meanwhile 3rd parties bought into a lot of hyperbolic bullshit stereotypes that have existed since the N64 failed to take down Sony.

In essence, they bought into their own (and others') nonsense when, in truth, there is absolutely no reason why traditional games cannot exist on the system and be very successful - so long as you don't burn bridges. The 3rd parties' wake is filled with smoldering ruins of bridge after bridge. Whether Nintendo or others (who aren't short-sighted) can shift the machine's direction is up to debate.

Personally, I'm thinking yes, but it will never achieve the level of profitability for 3rd parties as it might have had they simply treated it like any other system - and not a Nintendo one.

 

[Taurus]

Um, Wii probably has the best line up of E3 if you ask me - both first party and third party.

Well at least they have best exclusive content and with that I'm ready for the list warz, but how many times has it actually made a difference? People will always downplay Wii games no matter what.

Spoiler

NOTE: These are E3 2009 games so you won't find Monter Hunter 3, DQX etc. here

Arc Rise Fantasia
The Conduit
Dead Space: Extraction
Endless Ocean 2
Final Fantasy: Crystal Bearers
Flip's Twisted World
Ghostbusters **multiplat

Grand Slam Tennis **multiplat
The Grinder
Little King's Story
Mario&Sonic @ Winter Olympics
Metroid: Other M
Monado: Beginning of the World
Muramasa Demon Blade

Need for Speed Nitro
New Super Mario Bros Wii
No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle
Rabbids Go Home
Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles
Red Steel 2
Shaun White Snowboarding: World Stage

Silent Hill: Shattered Memories **multiplat
Sin&Punishment 2
Spyborgs
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Tales of Grace
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
TMNT: Smash-up

Wii Fit Plus
Wii Sports Resort

There, I went there. Did I miss something big? Would have made an awesome conference if they actually showed these games instead of boring bullshit.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Well at least they have best exclusive content and with that I'm ready for the list warz, but how many times has it actually made a difference? People will always downplay Wii games no matter what.

Spoiler

The Conduit
Dead Space: Extraction
Endless Ocean 2
Final Fantasy: Crystal Bearers
Flip's Twisted World
Ghostbusters **multiplat

The Grinder
Mario&Sonic @ Winter Olympics
Metroid: Other M
Monado: Beginning of the World
Muramasa Demon Blade
Need for Speed Nitro

New Super Mario Bros Wii
No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle
Rabbids Go Home
Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles
Red Steel 2
Shaun White Snowboarding: World Stage

Silent Hill: Shattered Memories **multiplat
Sin&Punishment 2
Spyborgs
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
TMNT: Smash-up

Wii Fit Plus
Wii Sports Resort

There, I went there. Did I miss something big? Would have made an awesome conference if they actually showed these games instead of boring bullshit.

You forgot Arc Rise Fantasia, Little King Story, and Tales of Grace.

 

[Taurus]

You forgot Arc Rise Fantasia, Little King Story, and Tales of Grace.

Added

 

[I AM JOHN!]

3rd parties again released dozens of games. Wow, Nintendo sure is making it difficult for 3rd parties to suceed, cannibalizing the market with their whole SEVEN games released over the course of AN ENTIRE YEAR

And yet Nintendo gives no advertising support and little to no backing of third-party games because they'd rather those millions of Wii games sold a month be all their games instead of 5/6 theirs and 1/6 their third-parties. Nintendo has always been more than willing to throw their partners under the bus for more sales - it's why they did the "five games a year" rule back in the NES days and it's something third-parties have been complaining about since N64. It's also why third-parties threw all their weight behind PS1 en masse, because Sony was willing to work with them and help with development and subsidizing advertising costs something they and Microsoft still do. This is nothing new.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Added

Failure is forgiven.

 

[Zoramon089]

And yet Nintendo gives no advertising support and little to no backing of third-party games because they'd rather those millions of Wii games sold a month be all their games instead of 5/6 theirs and 1/6 their third-parties. Nintendo has always been more than willing to throw their partners under the bus for more sales - it's why they did the "five games a year" rule back in the NES days and it's something third-parties have been complaining about since N64. It's also why third-parties threw all their weight behind PS1 en masse, because Sony was willing to work with them and help with development and subsidizing advertising costs something they and Microsoft still do. This is nothing new.

They shouldn't have to. Stop with this BS about Sony and Microsoft supporting 3rd party devs with advertising because, aside from a very select few titles (Gears of War is a notable one), it's a complete lie

And if you think Nintendo doesn't help devs with development, that also shows an incredible amount of ignorance. Look at the Red Steel 2 topic. The devs commented how Nintendo gave them tons of libraries and support on the motion+, the same with EA. I'm sure the same could be said for the other big devs, the ones who actually plan on releasing games that could even be considered quality titles for the Wii instead of cheap cash ins. Nintendo isn't in the business of squandering their money helping devs who only want to make a quick buck by releasing poor software which they don't plan on amply supporting themselves

 

[Eteric Rice]

And yet Nintendo gives no advertising support and little to no backing of third-party games because they'd rather those millions of Wii games sold a month be all their games instead of 5/6 theirs and 1/6 their third-parties. Nintendo has always been more than willing to throw their partners under the bus for more sales - it's why they did the "five games a year" rule back in the NES days and it's something third-parties have been complaining about since N64. It's also why third-parties threw all their weight behind PS1 en masse, because Sony was willing to work with them and help with development and subsidizing advertising costs something they and Microsoft still do. This is nothing new.

No, it was because Nintendo wanted to continue using cartridges instead of CDs. This would have been expensive as hell while CDs would have been cheap and provided them with a lot more memory than cartridges ever could have hoped to do.

No doubt that Nintendo was an asshole at one time, but that wasn't the real reason.

Nintendo has always been more than willing to throw their partners under the bus for more sales - it's why they did the "five games a year" rule back in the NES days and it's something third-parties have been complaining about since N64.

No, that's because the video game crash of the 80s was caused by a flood of shit from third parties. It caused consumers to not want to buy games anymore (because they were either clones of already popular games, or they were shitty).

 

[pieyow]

3RD Parties Still remember how Nintendo treated them in the late 80s and Early 90s. The Big N were real bastards, Most of you guys were probably too young to remember how they were, But I do. And probably so do the major companies...

That's a definite fact. Nintendo is not the easiest to work with. They were briefly when Nintendo was in last place of the console war, but they've gone back to the way they were when Nintendo was on top. Really difficult to work with.

 

[jaundicejuice]

I don't third party support is exactly a concern for Nintendo like it is for some of their consumers.

 

[Zoramon089]

That's a definite fact. Nintendo is not the easiest to work with. They were briefly when Nintendo was in last place of the console war, but they've gone back to the way they were when Nintendo was on top. Really difficult to work with.

Are people just making things up? I could easily pull up a number of interviews with 3rd parties citing how supportive they've been but I doubt a single article could be pulled up supporting this and yet this view still persists

 

[I AM JOHN!]

They shouldn't have to. Stop with this BS about Sony and Microsoft supporting 3rd party devs with advertising because, aside from a very select few titles (Gears of War is a notable one), it's a complete lie

Actually Gears of War isn't a notable one because Microsoft is the publisher. Lost Planet, Assassin's Creed, Madden and MGS4, to name two, say "hey what's up dude!"

And I never said they had to. But their competitors do, whereas Nintendo takes the "dude, whatever, do what you want" strategy. Sorry that my statement of things developers have stated in the past and my assumption that Nintendo is not going to change their strategy when it has made them money hand over fist for decades and that's why many companies are more willing to play ball with Sony and Microsoft than Nintendo upsets your fragile little world or something (which is the only explanation I can think of as to why you're getting so angered by my statements).

No, that's because the video game crash of the 80s was caused by a flood of shit from third parties. It caused consumers to not want to buy games anymore (because they were either clones of already popular games, or they were shitty).

And yet Nintendo themselves were completely exempt from the rule. Obviously the fear of the crash may have had some motivation on passing it, but you're crazy if you think that's the sole reason.

 

[Scrubking]

That's a definite fact. Nintendo is not the easiest to work with. They were briefly when Nintendo was in last place of the console war, but they've gone back to the way they were when Nintendo was on top. Really difficult to work with.

And you know this how?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Well at least they have best exclusive content and with that I'm ready for the list warz, but how many times has it actually made a difference? People will always downplay Wii games no matter what.

Spoiler

NOTE: These are E3 2009 games so you won't find Monter Hunter 3, DQX etc. here

Arc Rise Fantasia
The Conduit
Dead Space: Extraction
Endless Ocean 2
Final Fantasy: Crystal Bearers
Flip's Twisted World
Ghostbusters **multiplat

Grand Slam Tennis **multiplat
The Grinder
Little King's Story
Mario&Sonic @ Winter Olympics
Metroid: Other M
Monado: Beginning of the World
Muramasa Demon Blade

Need for Speed Nitro
New Super Mario Bros Wii
No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle
Rabbids Go Home
Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles
Red Steel 2
Shaun White Snowboarding: World Stage

Silent Hill: Shattered Memories **multiplat
Sin&Punishment 2
Spyborgs
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Tales of Grace
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
TMNT: Smash-up

Wii Fit Plus
Wii Sports Resort

There, I went there. Did I miss something big? Would have made an awesome conference if they actually showed these games instead of boring bullshit.

Exactly what I'm thinking. As a PC gamer I couldn't care less of what a consoles library offers because most of those games I can just play on the PC. But it's line-up however is very important to me because it's the reason why I brought the console in the first place.

 

[Coolio McAwesome]

Developers don't have to compete with Nintendo's games if they make games for the 360 or PS3. If you were to look at a list of the best selling games of all time, Nintendo's name would show up more than any other publisher. If you were to take a look at the highest rated games of all time, Nintendo's name would show up more than any other developer. The simple fact of the matter is that third-parties can't compete with Nintendo, and they know it.