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[donny2112]

and it seems the hardcores are outnumbered.

As they are on every market-leading console.

the targets they chased.

They chased everyone. Blame third-parties for third-parties not putting core games on the console. Nintendo has done their part (attracted a huge userbase, supplied more core titles than on GameCube in the same timeframe plus put out expanded audience games).

 

[Neo C.]

I disagree. It's a) because it's an interesting topic with new information constantly coming in and very fun to discuss, and b) also because some people have some emotional investment in the companies themselves. I doubt that even the most diehard fanboys lose any sleep over NPD numbers or whatever though...the main reason is just that looking at the "real world" and thinking about why stuff happens and discussing it with people with similar interests is interesting for everyone. The "I care about the devs/games" etc argument is (while sometimes true) is imo very much secondary. Most people are only interested because discussing stuff you care about is fun.

I fully agree with the bolded part. For every platform I owned, I have more than enough to play anyway, therefore I don't really care when some games just stay exclusive on other platforms. Though as a historian, I'm very interested in the decision making of said companies.

 

[Vinci]

I dunno, it seems like there wasn't an absolute way for Nintendo to win this gen.

There wasn't. Anyone suggesting there was is kidding themselves. Generations of history were working against them, and they managed to pull off market leader despite them. That's saying a lot for how strongly they've done.

Hopefully all the money they're making this gen will help set up for a more balanced console next gen. Enough power so they're not getting left behind in multi-console games, but not so much that it launches beyond a mainstream price point. It's something I'm sure they could do, though given their current attitude, I'm not really sure they give much of a shit about the core gaming market anymore.

No reason to exclude the core if they're able to get them without bending over backwards. Something with HD, reasonable power; something that doesn't insult 3rd parties' delicate dispositions as artists, and they don't have to go out of their way - the 3rd parties will get the core gamers for the system just by doing what they do, pander to the people they actually understand.

EDIT: So long as 3rd parties get that there's only one Nintendo and following them around isn't necessarily the best course, things should turn out fine. One last time for emphasis: There is no difference between developing for a Nintendo console and a Sony one from a development standpoint outside of financing. None.

 

[J-Rzez]

Please don't tell me you're equating "hardcore/mature" with "bloody/gritty". Seriously.

It's not hard to grasp. Zelda can be work for hardcore gamers of all ages. GoW (especially from the looks of 3), Gears, CoD, KZ2, and even GTA4 are more "mature" referencing the ages that should be playing the game. A 10, 11, 12 year old that loves and plays enough games to be considered a hardcore gamer shouldn't be playing GoW. Those games have a more intense value to them that only M+ should be playing since they should be at an age where they can handle such content.

They chased everyone.

Their first parties don't have the titles to chase everyone. They don't necessarily have enough hardcore gritty exclusives to chase everyone. They need to address that themselves if they want to attempt to get into the segment that only goes for hardcore mature titles.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The reason the Gamecube got poor support was because it was very clearly in third place.

You have a different definition for "very clearly" than I do.

 

[grandjedi6]

It matters and it matters a lot, though not because of some stupid fanboy shit.

Wait for it.....

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The videogame industry is basically black listing Nintendo - the fucking market leader.

:lol

 

[Opiate]

Errrr...a healthy market has loads of independent small players, not 3 huge ones

Oh, absolutely, that isn't an argument I'm making. It would be a very bad sign if these smaller studios were closing en masse; on an individual basis, however, they're not a big deal.

We may be reaching that "En Masse" threshold, however. GRIN cut way back just recently; Brash is gone; Free Radical is gone; Factor 5 seems to be gone; Silicon Knights cut a huge portion of their workforce; Kuju just closed their 360/PS3 studio, and many others that I can't immediately recall.

In fact, can anyone make a comprehensive listing of smaller studios that have closed in the last two years? I'd bookmark the page if someone is willing to help me out. Thanks!

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

It's impossible to guess the outcome of a more powerful Wii beyond one nigh certainty: It would've gotten lots and lots more ports.

I would be happy with ports. GCN was really bad at selling 3rd party games and it was also, clearly in 3rd in terms of 3rd party support. Or, MS was really really good at tapping into aggressive buyers. They had a 5th of the PS2 base and still sold comparable in related games. Madden would see 2 million on PS2, 1 million on Xbox and 200K on GCN. Just completely different spectrums comparing GCN and Xbox.

BTW, this thread lost any real steam in terms of discussing the OP: why PSP? That's like a kick in the teeth. Mostly because I'm upset with Capcom.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Oh, absolutely, that isn't an argument I'm making. It would be a very bad sign if these smaller studios were closing en masse; on an individual basis, however, they're not a big deal.

We may be reaching that "En Masse" threshold, however. GRIN cut way back just recently; Brash is gone; Free Radical is gone; Factor 5 seems to be gone; Silicon Knights cut a huge portion of their workforce; Kuju just closed their 360/PS3 studio, and many others that I can't immediately recall.

In fact, can anyone make a comprehensive listing of smaller studios that have closed in the last two years? I'd bookmark the page if someone is willing to help me out. Thanks!

That would be interesting to see.

 

[Vinci]

I would be happy with ports. GCN was really bad at selling 3rd party games and it was also, clearly in 3rd in terms of 3rd party support. Or, MS was really really good at tapping into aggressive buyers. They had a 5th of the PS2 base and still sold comparable in related games. Madden would see 2 million on PS2, 1 million on Xbox and 200K on GCN. Just completely different spectrums comparing GCN and Xbox.

Nintendo had been monikered as the 'kiddie company' for one entire generation prior to the GCN, so yeah, I'm thinking Microsoft was both skilled at luring aggressive buyers and lucky that Nintendo's reputation had gone so far south by that point.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Oh, absolutely, that isn't an argument I'm making. It would be a very bad sign if these smaller studios were closing en masse; on an individual basis, however, they're not a big deal.

We may be reaching that "En Masse" threshold, however. GRIN cut way back just recently; Brash is gone; Free Radical is gone; Factor 5 seems to be gone; Silicon Knights cut a huge portion of their workforce; Kuju just closed their 360/PS3 studio, and many others that I can't immediately recall.

In fact, can anyone make a comprehensive listing of smaller studios that have closed in the last two years? I'd bookmark the page if someone is willing to help me out. Thanks!

Would definitely be interesting.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Nintendo had been monikered as the 'kiddie company' for one entire generation prior to the GCN, so yeah, I'm thinking Microsoft was both skilled at luring aggressive buyers and lucky that Nintendo's reputation had gone so far south by that point.

I just hope that third parties aren't so quick to put their eggs in one basket next generation. But knowing how stupid this industry can be, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Think about the consequences of your reasoning more carefully. Why would third parties make a Metal Gear for any platform "when they can make decent sales with some half assed effort" on the Wii? Why doesn't your argument shut down core development on every platform if the Wii is such an easy way out?

Businesses don't work in a black and white atmosphere. Some companies want challenge, to be able to push a system to its limit and bring the gamers in. It has been a successful model for several years. Not every title can see a benefit in using the Wii's strength or enough to where the advantages are worth it. Which is why Metal Gear and mainline Final Fantasy titles will be on PS3, 360, and/or PSP.

A downside to a lot of Nintendo fans is that they think businesses work in a black and white atmosphere where it is all about the bottom line. That is not the case and that is a very good thing.

Here, I agree. Wii owners can't play games that third parties aren't making, and complaining on a message board(which I admit I sometimes engage in) won't cause those games to exist. For me, there are more than enough games coming out that I don't need to worry about games that don't exist, no matter how much I might want some of those non-existent games.

I just think that as the system is entering into its third year, if we haven't seen much in terms of flagship titles from third parties, I wouldn't expect any. Like people keep saying, it is different for a developer to be caught off guard (explains 2006 and 2007) but developers have had well over a year to understand where the systems are going to land, sales wise. The fact that they aren't is telling of what their visions are. Some developers are able to do quite well without the Wii. It isn't a platform of necessity.

 

[donny2112]

Not every title can see a benefit in using the Wii's strength or enough to where the advantages are worth it. Which is why Metal Gear and mainline Final Fantasy titles will be on PS3, 360, and/or PSP.

The irony ... It's so thick ... I can't breathe.

 

[etiolate]

Publishers have an idea of what they think sells on the console and then pass it down to devs. Devs are also sometimes creatively bankrupt.

You see bland party games on Wii from third parties and you see redundant action titles on the HD systems. Nothing is really being done right, just being done according to plan. Companies are afraid to be daring, and every daring title that sells below a status quo title makes the companies even more scared. Of course, the other side is that if you treat new ideas as ugly ducklings then the consumer will see you treating them like that. Until the what-needs-to-happen is not the oddity amongst a sea of clones, then you will see uninspired third party efforts for everyone.

You may see a high budget title on a HD console and wonder why that effort isn't being put into the Wii, but you're not realizing that the title you are speaking of isn't really doing anything new either. High Voltage is making good looking action titles for Wii, but does that really interest me when theres tons of that fare to be had? I don't really think it is a good time to be a gamer right now, even with three consoles, the variety and inspiration out there is totally lacking. Nintendo tried to change the rules of game development, but third parties still have the same mentality.






Also, note of difference with Nintendo: Third parties are chicken shit of facing high quality first party product in a sales period. MS understood this and runs with a lighter first party which opens up sales to third parties. At 50-60 bucks a dig, games are less likely to be gathered up in bunches. It's a matter of competition and that third parties prefer not having any. Acclaim had success on the N64 because there was nothing else out during its sales periods. If Acclaim releases those same games now on the Wii, despite the larger audience, they likely bomb due to there being more competition. Also, third parties lightened their love for Sony when Sony started trying to emphasize their first party.

 

[KevinCow]

You have a different definition for "very clearly" than I do.

Well, in the end, the gap between the Xbox and Gamecube was only a million or two (don't remember exactly), but that's mainly because the Xbox stopped tracking over a year before the Gamecube. Throughout the systems' lives, though, I seem to remember the Xbox being ahead by several million most of the time. Am I remembering wrong?

 

[EDarkness]

Businesses don't work in a black and white atmosphere. Some companies want challenge, to be able to push a system to its limit and bring the gamers in. It has been a successful model for several years. Not every title can see a benefit in using the Wii's strength or enough to where the advantages are worth it. Which is why Metal Gear and mainline Final Fantasy titles will be on PS3, 360, and/or PSP.

A downside to a lot of Nintendo fans is that they think businesses work in a black and white atmosphere where it is all about the bottom line. That is not the case and that is a very good thing.

The 360/PS3 I can understand, but the PSP? If they're going to scale the game down to the level of the PSP, then there really isn't an excuse for not doing a Wii version.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Well, in the end, the gap between the Xbox and Gamecube was only a million or two (don't remember exactly), but that's mainly because the Xbox stopped tracking over a year before the Gamecube. Throughout the systems' lives, though, I seem to remember the Xbox being ahead by several million most of the time. Am I remembering wrong?

I thought that actually was the contrary. GC in the first years was ahead, but then third party pretty much left aside GC and it was then Xbox was able to catch it and finally surpass it. Maybe it's me who is remembering it wrong.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

It has nothing to do with snubbing. Why should a developer make an inferior port of a top franchise game, just to appeal to a small demographic of "hardcore" Wii owners?

Nothing huh? Way to generalize every developer not giving fair support to Wii as "nothing to do" with snubbing, when there are a lot who clearly are.

My original point is still not countered, there ARE some fanboys in the industry who prefer one platform to another...you can hear it in their grandious "visionary" speeches and by how they use bad reasoning for why their games are or aren't on one platform or another (and this goes either way).

And this trend didn't start in this generation with Wii vs HD, there was a lot of it last generation too with some developers/publishers chocking it all up to "demographics" when it was more clearly their own personal preference. For instance Sega (last generation), would say games like VF, JSR & Panzer Dragoon didn't "fit" the GCN's "audience" and wouldn't sell, yet would port successful GCN games like Super Monkey Ball & Sonic to other systems despite them selling less on non-Nintendo platforms. I could give tons more of these examples and it's rooted in these self-fulfilling prophecies (that 3RD parties only have themselves to blame for fulfilling them) starting in the childish "kiddie vs mature" debates of Sega vs Nintendo fanboy days.

These same arguments are now refassioned in new "casual vs core" debates today, when actually the truth is, some of these developers/publishers just don't like Nintendo.

To go to your: "they don't wanna compromise their visionary masterpeices with downports to lower-specced systems" point, a lot of that is BS too. If that were true then they'd all only be making PC games and celphone/PSP serious efforts would not be made at all. Instead you see the opposite...why...mainly 'cos some people (both inside and outside the industry) still think Nintendo is for kids only. And I'm not simply talking just ports anyways...their snubbing the Wii of a lot of ports, sure, but some of them are also snubbing it of serious main-line efforts all around...and they would continue to even if Wii was more powerful or was more popular with their "target audiences"...why:

Because. Some developers/publishers. Simply. Don't. Like. Nintendo.

This isn't about money, or specs power, or creative vision or core vs casual, or target audience demographics...it's personal preference and bias. Therefore, my point still stands: some people inside the industry are just fanboys.

 

[D.Lo]

BTW, this thread lost any real steam in terms of discussing the OP: why PSP? That's like a kick in the teeth. Mostly because I'm upset with Capcom.

Exactly, there really aren't any satisfactory answers to that question.

If it's all about 'powah', then why the PSP but not the Wii, the treatment of Resident Evil and Soul Calibur on the platform being prime examples.

If it's all about PS3/360/PC being greater then the Wii combined, then why the PSP? The Wii already has a larger install base then the PSP, and will soon be much, much higher.

If it's about game sales and third party game sales, the Wii kicks the PSP's ass.

Talking about Japan, if it’s now ‘handheld land’, then why all the big PS3/360 projects specifically for Japanese audiences (like the big RPGs)?

If it’s about business expectations and preparing games within timeframes (ie companies weren’t ready for the Wii’s success), then how did Japanese companies manage to turn around their support for the PSP sales uptick so quickly?

The Wii constantly needs ‘tests’, but the PSP has constantly proven to fail software selling tests (in the west at least). It’s like the PSP has been given dozens of chances in a row, over a period of four years, most of which it has failed to live up to expectations on. The Wii has still NEVER been given a major shot with a major franchise properly developed on it. MH3 will be the first, almost three years into its life.

It can’t just be moneyhats, surely everyone knows that kind of thing can’t be sustainable. It’s really, really hard to come to any conclusion other then third parties simply wishing the Wii wasn’t there messing up their plans, and doing everything they can to avoid Nintendo. They wanted and expected a PSP dominated handheld space and a PS3 dominated console space, and they’re going to give it yet another ‘one last shot’ to try to make it happen.

(By the way, have a PSP 2000 and enjoy it a lot).

 

[Jokeropia]

It's not hard to grasp. Zelda can be work for hardcore gamers of all ages. GoW (especially from the looks of 3), Gears, CoD, KZ2, and even GTA4 are more "mature" referencing the ages that should be playing the game. A 10, 11, 12 year old that loves and plays enough games to be considered a hardcore gamer shouldn't be playing GoW. Those games have a more intense value to them that only M+ should be playing since they should be at an age where they can handle such content.

I agree that there is a distinction between bloody/gritty games and the ones Nintendo make. Fortunately for me however, I really don't miss the lack of such games on Nintendo consoles because making games more "mature" by adding adult content does in my eyes often have the opposite effect. Basically, I'm perfectly happy with games that by content at least are appropriate for anyone.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

I thought that actually was the contrary. GC in the first years was ahead, but then third party pretty much left aside GC and it was then Xbox was able to catch it and finally surpass it. Maybe it's me who is remembering it wrong.

Basically GCN & XBOX were at the same level sales wise (despite Nintendo clearly getting less meaningful 3RD party support)...but that doesn't matter 'cos PS2 was so much further ahead in marketshare their fight for 2ND was meaningless.

What DID matter was (because of the much better industry support) XBOX was *way* ahead of GCN in mindshare...perceived value/marketting/support/popularity MS had was rivaling Sony before X360, even though the first XBOX was in a DISTANT DISTANT 2ND place sales wise.

Mindshare can be influential, it makes things like popularity and perceived value more important than actual marketshare/profitability. Ever since the Nintendo vs Sega days mindshare has played a role in competition, but it should be noted that even though Nintendo has always been low in mindshare they've always remained a good business, yet companies like Sega (and now Sony) were on top of it one generation and then victim to it the next.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Exactly, there really aren't any satisfactory answers to that question.

If it's all about 'powah', then why the PSP but not the Wii, the treatment of Resident Evil and Soul Calibur on the platform being prime examples.

If it's all about PS3/360/PC being greater then the Wii combined, then why the PSP? The Wii already has a larger install base then the PSP, and will soon be much, much higher.

If it's about game sales and third party game sales, the Wii kicks the PSP's ass.

Talking about Japan, if it’s now ‘handheld land’, then why all the big PS3/360 projects specifically for Japanese audiences (like the big RPGs)?

If it’s about business expectations and preparing games within timeframes (ie companies weren’t ready for the Wii’s success), then how did Japanese companies manage to turn around their support for the PSP sales uptick so quickly?

The Wii constantly needs ‘tests’, but the PSP has constantly proven to fail software selling tests (in the west at least). It’s like the PSP has been given dozens of chances in a row, over a period of four years, most of which it has failed to live up to expectations on. The Wii has still NEVER been given a major shot with a major franchise properly developed on it. MH3 will be the first, almost three years into its life.

It can’t just be moneyhats, surely everyone knows that kind of thing can’t be sustainable. It’s really, really hard to come to any conclusion other then third parties simply wishing the Wii wasn’t there messing up their plans, and doing everything they can to avoid Nintendo. They wanted and expected a PSP dominated handheld space and a PS3 dominated console space, and they’re going to give it yet another ‘one last shot’ to try to make it happen.

(By the way, have a PSP 2000 and enjoy it a lot).

.

Great post, it could be a combination of they don't like Nintendo, or they prefer something other than Nintendo...it's really the only logical thing that could be said about some of the PSP's support while Wii get's a lack of it.

More off topic...or maybe back on topic since it's about PSP...maybe 3RD parties are re-supporting it in the hopes of capitalizing on a (stretch the imagination here) potentially good PSP Go! launch?

 

[Eteric Rice]

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Great post, it could be a combination of they don't like Nintendo, or they prefer something other than Nintendo...it's really the only logical thing that could be said about some of the PSP's support while Wii get's a lack of it.

More off topic...or maybe back on topic since it's about PSP...maybe 3RD parties are re-supporting it in the hopes of capitalizing on a (stretch the imagination here) potentially good PSP Go! launch?

That's the only thing I can think of.

I do feel a bit vindicated, though. A long time ago I had argued with some people on GAF about if LBP could be done on the Wii in some form. Everyone had said it was impossible. Now there's a PSP version (in 3D of all things, which I wish they had gone for a 2D LBP really).

So yay.

 

[J-Rzez]

I agree that there is a distinction between bloody/gritty games and the ones Nintendo make. Fortunately for me however, I really don't miss the lack of such games on Nintendo consoles because making games more "mature" by adding adult content does in my eyes often have the opposite effect. Basically, I'm perfectly happy with games that by content at least are appropriate for anyone.

All what works for you man. I don't mind "nintendoesque" games, but I like having the option of having AAA, more intensive bloody/gritty games as well. So, boils down what you want. Naturally, I'm just speaking from my wants/needs so the console doesn't do it for me, but for others it maybe all they need. But to continually see people begging for ports or full on games of proven AAA 3rd party franchises, they have to understand, especially by now, that sales numbers doesn't mean they're entitled to every AAA franchise and their sequels. If they want those games, they're going to have to go elsewhere. It's just how this gen is, unfortunately for them.

 

[Eteric Rice]

All what works for you man. I don't mind "nintendoesque" games, but I like having the option of having AAA, more intensive bloody/gritty games as well. So, boils down what you want. Naturally, I'm just speaking from my wants/needs so the console doesn't do it for me, but for others it maybe all they need. But to continually see people begging for ports or full on games of proven AAA 3rd party franchises, they have to understand, especially by now, that sales numbers doesn't mean they're entitled to every AAA franchise and their sequels. If they want those games, they're going to have to go elsewhere. It's just how this gen is, unfortunately for them.

We're just going to keep pushing, even if that "is" how it is.

I'd be perfectly happy if Japan would support the Wii completely like they do the DS. Some fully 3D Final Fantasy remakes, bunches of RPGs, etc. I would then never complain about what western devs do.

Though I do appreciate the western devs that "are" trying on the Wii.

 

[EDarkness]

All what works for you man. I don't mind "nintendoesque" games, but I like having the option of having AAA, more intensive bloody/gritty games as well. So, boils down what you want. Naturally, I'm just speaking from my wants/needs so the console doesn't do it for me, but for others it maybe all they need. But to continually see people begging for ports or full on games of proven AAA 3rd party franchises, they have to understand, especially by now, that sales numbers doesn't mean they're entitled to every AAA franchise and their sequels. If they want those games, they're going to have to go elsewhere. It's just how this gen is, unfortunately for them.

Just because that's "how it is" doesn't mean it can't change, shouldn't be better, or be accepted. My wants are pretty much the same as you, but I'm more than happy to settle for a down-port of some of the AAA games as long as they tried to make it decent. I don't think many people would be complaining if that were the case. The real point is why the PSP gets a version of Assassin's Creed (which looks pretty good) and the Wii doesn't. For the longest time Ubisoft was saying that the Wii was underpowered and could never do the game and now we see a PSP version in the same vein as the original. Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[leroy hacker]

Even more to the point, why would third parties waste their money on a new Metal Gear when they can make decent sales with some half assed effort.

A downside to a lot of Nintendo fans is that they think businesses work in a black and white atmosphere where it is all about the bottom line. That is not the case and that is a very good thing.

You're the one that made an argument based on the bottom line. By writing that it's not all about the bottom line, you are admitting that my refutation of your original argument was correct.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Just because that's "how it is" doesn't mean it can't change, shouldn't be better, or be accepted. My wants are pretty much the same as you, but I'm more than happy to settle for a down-port of some of the AAA games as long as they tried to make it decent. I don't think many people would be complaining if that were the case. The real point is why the PSP gets a version of Assassin's Creed (which looks pretty good) and the Wii doesn't. For the longest time Ubisoft was saying that the Wii was underpowered and could never do the game and now we see a PSP version in the same vein as the original. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Nothing in this industry is making any sense right now. :/

 

[legend166]

I just wish people would stop using the "well 3rd parties obviously have more insight into sales than GAF does and they know what they're doing!"

If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't collectively be losing billions of dollars.

 

[gkryhewy]

That's the only thing I can think of.

I do feel a bit vindicated, though. A long time ago I had argued with some people on GAF about if LBP could be done on the Wii in some form. Everyone had said it was impossible. Now there's a PSP version (in 3D of all things, which I wish they had gone for a 2D LBP really).

So yay.

You forget that they snuck a Cell into the PSP Go to provide LBP the physics it needs and deserves.

 

[Shockgamer]

My wants are pretty much the same as you, but I'm more than happy to settle for a down-port of some of the AAA games as long as they tried to make it decent.

You say that, and maybe you may mean it, but let's not pretend that had Assassin's Creed, Army of Two or whatever HD console title headed to PSP materialized as Wii titles that reviewers wouldn't have torn them apart for every compromise made to make them work on Wii. There would be no way to justify the worse graphics, likely smaller maps and smaller crowds to somebody who had access to a more powerful platform.

Similarly, the very people the game would be marketed to would know that it's not as good as the 360/PS3/PC version and either get that (if they haven't already) or ignore it entirely for the next Nintendo game or 3rd party exclusive that they can't play anywhere else.

Being on PSP allows downgraded games to come out without having to compete with the HD consoles. Standards are lower and there's always the fact that they're portable to defend them.

 

[MotherFan]

I just wish people would stop using the "well 3rd parties obviously have more insight into sales than GAF does and they know what they're doing!"

If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't collectively be losing billions of dollars.

This. Again, remember, we hear of record revenue but record losses. If they are so good at business and know more than us, why is this occurring?

 

[EDarkness]

You say that, and maybe you may mean it, but let's not pretend that had Assassin's Creed, Army of Two or whatever HD console title headed to PSP materialized as Wii titles that reviewers wouldn't have torn them apart for every compromise made to make them work on Wii. There would be no way to justify the worse graphics, likely smaller maps and smaller crowds to somebody who had access to a more powerful platform.

Similarly, the very people the game would be marketed to would know that it's not as good as the 360/PS3/PC version and either get that (if they haven't already) or ignore it entirely for the next Nintendo game or 3rd party exclusive that they can't play anywhere else.

Being on PSP allows downgraded games to come out without having to compete with the HD consoles. Standards are lower and there's always the fact that they're portable to defend them.

I'm not sure I buy that. The goal should be to get the game into as many hands as possible. Sure the graphic guys would be all over the HD versions. That's to be expected. However, the Wii is more powerful than the PSP, and as such the Wii version should be able to get close enough. I would say it was mind blowing, but World At War was pretty good on the Wii and even though more people bought the HD versions, the Wii version still was able to enjoy some success. I would go on to say that the Wii version would have held up better if the features were identical.

People know the Wii is weaker, and those version may or may not score better with "core" reviewers, but that still doesn't mean Wii owners wouldn't want those games.

 

[MotherFan]

I'm not sure I buy that. The goal should be to get the game into as many hands as possible. Sure the graphic guys would be all over the HD versions. That's to be expected. However, the Wii is more powerful than the PSP, and as such the Wii version should be able to get close enough. I would say it was mind blowing, but World At War was pretty good on the Wii and even though more people bought the HD versions, the Wii version still was able to enjoy some success. I would go on to say that the Wii version would have held up better if the features were identical.

People know the Wii is weaker, and those version may or may not score better with "core" reviewers, but that still doesn't mean Wii owners wouldn't want those games.

1M+ did with WaW.

 

[Eteric Rice]

You say that, and maybe you may mean it, but let's not pretend that had Assassin's Creed, Army of Two or whatever HD console title headed to PSP materialized as Wii titles that reviewers wouldn't have torn them apart for every compromise made to make them work on Wii. There would be no way to justify the worse graphics, likely smaller maps and smaller crowds to somebody who had access to a more powerful platform.

Similarly, the very people the game would be marketed to would know that it's not as good as the 360/PS3/PC version and either get that (if they haven't already) or ignore it entirely for the next Nintendo game or 3rd party exclusive that they can't play anywhere else.

Being on PSP allows downgraded games to come out without having to compete with the HD consoles. Standards are lower and there's always the fact that they're portable to defend them.

As long as the gameplay and most of it's elements remained intact, I don't think people would care that much if levels were a bit smaller, etc.

 

[MotherFan]

As long as the gameplay and most of it's elements remained intact, I don't think people would care that much if levels were a bit smaller, etc.

You forget that the "journalists" are fanboys that post on message boards. How many journalists in other professions do this?

 

[Eteric Rice]

You forget that the "journalists" are fanboys that post on message boards. How many journalists in other professions do this?

Not many I presume.

I wish gaming would just return to it's core concepts for a while. It's most basic components. I think there's a lot of people in the world that miss that. I mean hell, look at New Super Mario Bros for instance.

The focus on power isn't having a very positive effect on gaming. Trying to push CG cutscenes, etc, is kind of pointless as well.

I wish we'd kind of just drop it and focus on the "game" part of games again.

 

[norinrad21]

Just because that's "how it is" doesn't mean it can't change, shouldn't be better, or be accepted. My wants are pretty much the same as you, but I'm more than happy to settle for a down-port of some of the AAA games as long as they tried to make it decent. I don't think many people would be complaining if that were the case. The real point is why the PSP gets a version of Assassin's Creed (which looks pretty good) and the Wii doesn't. For the longest time Ubisoft was saying that the Wii was underpowered and could never do the game and now we see a PSP version in the same vein as the original. Doesn't make any sense to me.

It does make sense, for starters, the PSP isn't a Nintendo handheld and everything with the name Nintendo on it is either a plague or a nightmare they all want to avoid and wish it would go away but unfortunately for them, there's a Black wii coming and when it hits God help them :lol

 

[Eteric Rice]

It does make sense, for starters, the PSP isn't a Nintendo handheld and everything with the name Nintendo on it is either a plague or a nightmare they all want to avoid and wish it would go away but unfortunately for them, there's a Black wii coming and when it hits God help them :lol

Thats depressing. :/

 

[Scrubking]

... there's a Black wii coming and when it hits God help them :lol

Man, that sounds straight out of a movie. Someone needs to make a gif with someone slowly turning to someone and dramatically saying that while he shakes his head. It would be so awesome.

 

[RyuKanSan]

It does make sense, for starters, the PSP isn't a Nintendo handheld and everything with the name Nintendo on it is either a plague or a nightmare they all want to avoid and wish it would go away but unfortunately for them, there's a Black wii coming and when it hits God help them :lol

:lol :lol :lol :lol i would buy another wii JUST for that color. It reminds me on the Revolution

 

[MotherFan]

It does make sense, for starters, the PSP isn't a Nintendo handheld and everything with the name Nintendo on it is either a plague or a nightmare they all want to avoid and wish it would go away but unfortunately for them, there's a Black wii coming and when it hits God help them :lol

/thread

 

[Nocebo]

I think I'm going to agree with the guy who said something along the lines of "on the wii you can't hide the lack of compelling gameplay by throwing 'impressive' tech and visuals at the player". So that must be scary to a lot of developers.

 

[Eteric Rice]

/thread

But I like this thread.

I wish someone in the industry would tell us how these companies that aren't making money will survive. I know some are making money (Capcom, Epic, etc), but what about the ones that aren't? Will they just keep going until they can't go anymore?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

All what works for you man. I don't mind "nintendoesque" games, but I like having the option of having AAA, more intensive bloody/gritty games as well. So, boils down what you want. Naturally, I'm just speaking from my wants/needs so the console doesn't do it for me, but for others it maybe all they need. But to continually see people begging for ports or full on games of proven AAA 3rd party franchises, they have to understand, especially by now, that sales numbers doesn't mean they're entitled to every AAA franchise and their sequels. If they want those games, they're going to have to go elsewhere. It's just how this gen is, unfortunately for them.

This board goes to the end of the earth talking/discussing/bitchin/moanin about small, minute differences between HD ports, bloom lighting, texture quality, and sales. It's what we do. Yeah, it's annoying and like yelling at the wind but it's gotta start somewhere. I bitch like crazy and just buy games on 360, Wii and DS. It's like bitching about RRoD. But I hope the lesson is that they can't keep doing this shit. People will get fed up. This generation is especially shitty.

Last gen was 10 times better given that you could have one console and do significantly alright in terms of games. If you have one console, you'll be starving in certain respects. Significant portions of game categories just don't show up. All this market expansion and developer contraction will mean less games, more ports and less ability to satisfy every one except the casuals. I can't own all consoles. I have 2 consoles and a handheld, 2 of the market leading products and feel unsatisfied. This gen is straight shit. The market leading console has difficulty with software, the 2nd in line has difficulty with hardware. I wish we could just flush this damn generation already. Fuck a 10 year cycle of this shit. Fuck it in the ass. Fuck paying for online and saves being linked to a gamertag. Fuck no AAA games on the Wii. Fuck $599. Fuck it all. Fuck bad 3D on the DS. Fuck an abortion of a handheld best to play movies and not games, that costs the same as the wii. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.

I like bitching sometimes. And fuck shitty FPS with infinite respawning enemies being touted as hot shit. Most candy-ass, casual game being touted as hardcore because of graphics. The biggest joke yet this gen.

But I like this thread.

I wish someone in the industry would tell us how these companies that aren't making money will survive. I know some are making money (Capcom, Epic, etc), but what about the ones that aren't? Will they just keep going until they can't go anymore?

That's a potential pleasure. See, this gen is so shitty, I'm rooting for these guys to lose. Let's just get an abortion and forget this gen ever happened. I'm tired of being hyped to hell for pretty graphics and a chainsaw on a gun. It's the Halo effect.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

I wonder how many of these new wonderful PSP games will get ported to Wii?

 

[Eteric Rice]

I wonder how many of these new wonderful PSP games will get ported to Wii?

I dunno. If they do port them to the Wii, I hope they at least improve them enough where they look closer to normal Xbox levels or something.

It is kind of annoying that a handheld is getting these games first.

 

[KevinCow]

The real point is why the PSP gets a version of Assassin's Creed (which looks pretty good) and the Wii doesn't. For the longest time Ubisoft was saying that the Wii was underpowered and could never do the game and now we see a PSP version in the same vein as the original. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Do we know the PSP Assassin's Creed is in the same vein as the original? I've looked for information on it but can't find anything anywhere. How do we know it's not another Altair's Chronicles?

 

[Eteric Rice]

Do we know the PSP Assassin's Creed is in the same vein as the original? I've looked for information on it but can't find anything anywhere. How do we know it's not another Altair's Chronicles?

Looks pretty Assassin's Creed to me.