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[Lucky Forward]

I was going to argue you, but you might have a point..... The Catholic church, being an institution, often asserts the metaphorical nature of many of the stories in the Bible, while protestants, left to interpret it on their own, will tend to believe to the letter of the King James english version....

Of course, that is painting with one very broad stroke... when catholicism is made up of beliefs both logicial and otherwise, and it's made up of adherants who interpret the Church in different ways.

Oh yes a Catholic can be fundamentalist though....... not saying all are...

The thing is.. if you think the bible is the word of God... you're probably already a fundamentalist in my book. Instead of believing that these were separate texts written by human spiritual seekers, you'd see them as "god's commands". That's a lot different than you'd read any other book.

Personally, I was brought up Catholic (12 years of Catholic school) but I consider myself an atheist now.

I was just reading Wikipedia's article on Fundementalism in the U.S. and...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism

Fundamentalists claim both that they practice their religion as the first adherents did and that this is how religion should be practiced. In other words, a Christian ought to believe and practice as those who knew and followed Jesus during his time on earth. ...Further justification is adducted from the static or falling attendance of many liberal or reformed congregations, from the scandals that have struck, for example, the Roman Catholic church...

Fundementalists didn't like the way the way thinks were going with the Catholic and other mainstream churches, and wanted to get back to the "fundementals".

Now, people like Mel Gibson are know as Catholic Fundementalists because they want to get back to the Catholic basics (e.g. Latin Mass), but that is a relatively new phenomenon and they are entirely seperate from what is traditionally thought of as a Fundementalist Christian.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Same as me. I believe in God but I don't believe in organized religion.

The holy communion... just got a little bit sweeter.

 

[JayDubya]

jaydub's alright, he's just like a libertarian vulcan or something.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I'm sorry, in what way is he untalented? Are you one of those "I don't know much about art, but I know what I like" types? Personally, I think the guy's art sucks, but I don't begrudge its artistic status, and his drawing and sculpturing is accomplished. "My Sweet Lord" is pretty clever.

I'm confused, if you don't like his art, then why should you be begrudged or obliged to call it a talent? A chocolate sculpture is difficult to make, I guess, and that's something, I guess.

I suppose it's more aethetically pleasing than many of the entries the modern art exhibits I've seen. For example, a pile of rocks with a placard stating "A Pile of Rocks."

Why did I call him a cockstain earlier, geez? I guess I was thinking about Serrano and projecting. Someone's got a bad case of the... Fridays? Wrong side of the bed? I dunno. Gonna go get some much needed caffeine in a minute. :lol

At any rate, I'll fully retract my earlier tone, it was undeserved. The advil is finally kicking in, it would seem.

And why is subsidizing Serrano in particular unreasonable? The NEA didn't underwrite that specific project, just gave him funds to create whatever. And Piss Christ is actually a very beautiful picture. You can disagree with the NEA's mission (see below), but I don't like the government deciding what's "artistic." If the NEA is supposed to offer money to artists, it should be determined more on a "is he really a working artist and needs the money" not "will he make a pretty picture."

You're correct, the issue is not Piss Christ, specifically, but it fully encapsulates why NEA is such a bad idea. If people like an artist and are excited by the prospect of his next work, by all means, give them funds. If people like the end product, buy it for a lot of money. Why should everyone be forced to support art, let alone they don't like, and especially art that they find completely offensive? It's a fairly common turn of phrase "to piss on something" and offer it disrespect, so here we throw a crucifix into a vile of piss and take a picture.

It's like, "Ha, ha, **** you Catholics, look what I just did, thanks for the money, losers!"

As for the above photo, no, I'm just not impressed with Piss Christ, I don't see any talent or beauty or expression there, I just see a gimmick and a blurry image.

I worked at the NEA during the whole Serrano/Mapplethorpe fiasco. Interesting "bunker mentality" during that time. Though it might surprise you to learn I'd be perfectly fine with its dissolution. I'd much prefer money go directly to states to fund school art studies. My father was an artist (fine art photography) for many years, and he always worked at other jobs (even commercial art, gasp!). If your art is so great, or the fever to create burns so hot, it won't kill you to spend the day waiting on customers so you can paint with shit, vomit or cheese at night.

Well if you worked for them you're probably going to completely disagree with what I just said on some level. :lol Don't get me wrong, I don't have a negative view of artists or artistry, but I don't think they should draw funds from the entire public, just seek donors or paint on the side until they get famous enough to draw said donors.

 

[BocoDragon]

Personally, I was brought up Catholic (12 years of Catholic school) but I consider myself an atheist now.

I was just reading Wikipedia's article on Fundementalism in the U.S. and...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism


Fundementalists didn't like the way the way thinks were going with the Catholic and other mainstream churches, and wanted to get back to the "fundementals".

Now, people like Mel Gibson are know as Catholic Fundementalists because they want to get back to the Catholic basics (e.g. Latin Mass), but that is a relatively new phenomenon and they are entirely seperate from what is traditionally thought of as a Fundementalist Christian.

but that's a very specific use of fundamentalism that often isn't the case.

When we say "Islamic fundamentalists", they're not getting back to the original Islam or something.

Fundamentalism usually means: Someone who believes in the letter of their religious laws (but perhaps not the spirit of those laws).

So if I think Jesus was the messenger of a God that wants me to ostracize gay people... I'm a fundie. If I recognize that Jesus was about forgiving sin and turning the other cheek, thereby wishing gay people well and helping them as best I can, then I'm probably not a fundie.

 

[kablooey]

Tom Waits, clairvoyant that he is, wrote a song called "Chocolate Jesus" some ten years ago.

I don't see why the Catholics are so upset about this. Culture as a whole's already done more to defame Jesus than any simple sculpture could.

 

[Particle Physicist]

i hope christians riot. that would be awesome.

 

[Fatghost]

What would be awesome would be a sculpture of the pope made out of used condoms.

Think about it...it would make a statement

 

[BocoDragon]

What would be awesome would be a sculpture of the pope made out of used condoms.

Think about it...it would make a statement

"I want to make money"

 

[Lucky Forward]

i hope christians riot. that would be awesome.

Catholics can riot with the best of 'em.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Bartholomew_Day_Massacre

The St. Bartholomew's Day massacre (Massacre de la Saint-Barthélemy in French) was a wave of Catholic mob violence against the Huguenots (French Calvinist Protestants), traditionally believed to have been instigated by Catherine de' Medici, the mother of Charles IX. Starting on August 24, 1572, with the murder of a prominent Huguenot, Admiral Gaspard de Coligny, the massacres spread throughout Paris, and later to other cities and the countryside, lasting for several months. The exact number of fatalities will never be known, but several thousand, possibly tens of thousands, of Huguenots died in the violence.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Is it any worse than Chocolate Easter Crosses?

 

[He Wants Chalupas]

IT IS DELICIOUS DEITY
I MUST EAT IT

 

[bishoptl]

:lol Awesome, I hate religion. It's becoming an excuse to do shit these days.

Worthless human invention IMO. I'm not atheist either. I just don't like subscribing to some "gang".

Grove St, n***a

Anyways, not to automatically rise to the defence of a fellow Canuck or anything, but it is (as worldrunover mentioned) a fairly level-headed take on the commercialization of Jesus' death. Hell, I was more offended by that ad with the Easter Bunny taking a chainsaw to a basket to fit in some Hasbro board games as "great Easter gifts". WTF? Are we celebrating the resurrection or hawking the latest Jenga rip-offs?

I salute you, chocolate Jesus maker guy.

 

[starchild excalibur]

The six-foot (1.8m) sculpture, entitled "My Sweet Lord",

:lol

My new favorite artist.

 

[Instigator]

This remains the original and official Chocolate Jesus thread.

 

[karasu]

chebus is real!

 

[White Man]

Grove St, n***a

Anyways, not to automatically rise to the defence of a fellow Canuck or anything, but it is (as worldrunover mentioned) a fairly level-headed take on the commercialization of Jesus' death. Hell, I was more offended by that ad with the Easter Bunny taking a chainsaw to a basket to fit in some Hasbro board games as "great Easter gifts". WTF? Are we celebrating the resurrection or hawking the latest Jenga rip-offs?

I salute you, chocolate Jesus maker guy.

Yeah, I honestly think this is good art, and it does make a point, and the timing probably was intentional. It makes a pretty easy to understand statement. I just hope that people get to eat all that delicious chocolate.

And since someone mentioned my Steam/Gmod artwork, here is more Easter-relevant artwork. I call it "The Race Problem."

And my original commentary:

"This piece is an attempt to metaphorically illustrate the complicated connection between women and black people, and how our American society responds to this social construct. Our culture crucifies the black man and shoots him repeatedly in the sensitive organs with a shotgun, all while our women long for that most forbidden of fruits: the footlong length of pepperoni.

The white paint behind the black man represents his sexual virility. The white paint on the side represents where I accidentally clicked and couldn't figure out how to remove the paint."

Now where's my goid damned government cheese? Daddy's got some habits he needs to support. Expensive habits.

 

[Shig]

Grove St, n***a

Anyways, not to automatically rise to the defence of a fellow Canuck or anything, but it is (as worldrunover mentioned) a fairly level-headed take on the commercialization of Jesus' death. Hell, I was more offended by that ad with the Easter Bunny taking a chainsaw to a basket to fit in some Hasbro board games as "great Easter gifts". WTF? Are we celebrating the resurrection or hawking the latest Jenga rip-offs?

I salute you, chocolate Jesus maker guy.

Bud Light presents: Real Canadian Heroes
Real Canadian Heeeeroooes...

Today we salute you, Mr. Chocolate Jesus Maker.
Mr. Choc-o-late Jeesus MAAAAAAKEEEER

 

[Corwood Rep]

Only one post about the excellent Tom Waits song of the same name. ****ing tragic.

 

[adamsappel]

I'm confused, if you don't like his art, then why should you be begrudged or obliged to call it a talent? A chocolate sculpture is difficult to make, I guess, and that's something, I guess.

Exactly. There are musicians who create songs I hate and developers who make videogames I can't stand to play, but they're not untalented. I don't like most of Cavallaro's art, but My Sweet Lord works on several levels. Just a poor choice of word I seized on. "Cockstain" didn't bother me at all.

I suppose it's more aethetically pleasing than many of the entries the modern art exhibits I've seen. For example, a pile of rocks with a placard stating "A Pile of Rocks."

"Aesthetically pleasing" is criteria for art that is hung in hotel rooms. Great art is capable of so much more. Impressionism caused riots. My father has pointed out paintings that I've shrugged at and he said at the time people couldn't even stay in the room with them they were so powerful.

You're correct, the issue is not Piss Christ, specifically, but it fully encapsulates why NEA is such a bad idea. If people like an artist and are excited by the prospect of his next work, by all means, give them funds. If people like the end product, buy it for a lot of money. Why should everyone be forced to support art, let alone they don't like, and especially art that they find completely offensive? It's a fairly common turn of phrase "to piss on something" and offer it disrespect, so here we throw a crucifix into a vile of piss and take a picture.

It's like, "Ha, ha, **** you Catholics, look what I just did, thanks for the money, losers!"

As for the above photo, no, I'm just not impressed with Piss Christ, I don't see any talent or beauty or expression there, I just see a gimmick and a blurry image.

"Blurry" is poor criticism, one I usually reserve for porn. I think Piss Christ is a beautiful image, but it probably doesn't affect me as much as the artist intended since I'm not outraged by it. In that sense, the work is far more effective for you, though you don't even seem to know it. Being offended by art, whether it's the subject matter or the medium, doesn't rise to the level of refusing funding (if funding is the mission). Need-based funding is all I think should be considered.

Well if you worked for them you're probably going to completely disagree with what I just said on some level. :lol Don't get me wrong, I don't have a negative view of artists or artistry, but I don't think they should draw funds from the entire public, just seek donors or paint on the side until they get famous enough to draw said donors.

No, I absolutely agree with you. There's no need for individual adult artists to receive taxpayer money. Get a job, ya ****in' hippie artiste and buy your own goddamn paints. Dissolve the NEA with my blessing. Now, I would like that money (and more) to go to states to fund art classes in schools, and I'm sure we differ there.

 

[JayDubya]

"Aesthetically pleasing" is criteria for art that is hung in hotel rooms. Great art is capable of so much more.

Fair enough. I see your point.

"Blurry" is poor criticism, one I usually reserve for porn.

:lol Good one. And again, fair enough.

I think Piss Christ is a beautiful image, but it probably doesn't affect me as much as the artist intended since I'm not outraged by it. In that sense, the work is far more effective for you, though you don't even seem to know it.

Hrm, I'm more offended taxes paid for it, but that isn't it all of it, really. I'm big on religious tolerance, so while I think it's a-okay for such a thing to exist, I don't like the idea of taking something people revere and throwing it into a jar of piss and taking a photo. It still feels like more of a prank than a work of art.

Being offended by art, whether it's the subject matter or the medium, doesn't rise to the level of refusing funding (if funding is the mission). Need-based funding is all I think should be considered.

Yeah, it's hypocritical to say unpopular art shouldn't be funded if we're gonna fund the arts at all. I hear ya.

No, I absolutely agree with you. There's no need for individual adult artists to receive taxpayer money. Get a job, ya ****in' hippie artiste and buy your own goddamn paints. Dissolve the NEA with my blessing. Now, I would like that money (and more) to go to states to fund art classes in schools, and I'm sure we differ there.

Well, yeah, but an easy compromise that combines both perspectives our would be for the then-dissolved NEA money to not be taxed at all @ the national level, leaving more money for the states to tax for their art schools. States that do this will have stronger, more competitive art programs and draw more people to them to pay tuition and have a better pool of applicants and all that jazz.

 

[jamesinclair]

The biggest irony is that he recieved death threats

Yes, thats what jesus woild approve of!

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Catholic League head Bill Donohue called it "one of the worst assaults on Christian sensibilities ever".

No, I'm sorry. The answer for that is 'Catholic priests molesting little boys and the Church turning a blind eye towards these acts.'

 

[Brannon]

No, I'm sorry. The answer for that is 'Catholic priests molesting little boys and the Church turning a blind eye towards these acts.'

TRUTH.COM

 

[Boogie]

Is this Catholic League actually a big/influential/officially recognized Catholic group?

Because any time I see that douche Donahue on TV making an ass of himself, I have to ask how on earth he became an American representative of the largest Christian denomination on the planet.

 

[way more]

That's the piss Christ? Holy Science. I thought it would just be a gimmick but I like it. Mary made out of elephant crap was a a pile of dung.

Jeez, since it's a easter sculpture I was hoping for a more playful image. Something like the Buddy Christ figure. At least give Jesus a smile. That thing looks like something the dog brought home.

 

[FightyF]

The biggest irony is that he recieved death threats

Yes, thats what jesus woild approve of!

No it is not ironic this is what the religion teaches.[/APF]

 

[Count Dookkake]

Was this group as offended by the first report of a kid being raped by a priest?

What about the first hundred reports?

First thousand?

Priorities, people!

 

[Az987]

Jesus has never been so tasty

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Jesus has never been so tasty

Sweet lord

NEW YORK (AP) -- A planned Holy Week exhibition of a nude, anatomically correct chocolate sculpture of Jesus Christ was canceled Friday amid complaints from Catholics, including Cardinal Edward Egan.

The "My Sweet Lord" display was shut down by the hotel that houses the Lab Gallery in Manhattan, said Matt Semler, the gallery's creative director. Semler said he resigned after officials at the Roger Smith Hotel shut down the show.

The artwork was created from more than 200 pounds of milk chocolate and features Christ with his arms outstretched as if on an invisible cross. Unlike the typical religious portrayal of Christ, the artwork does not include a loincloth.

The 6-foot sculpture was the victim of "a strong-arming from people who haven't seen the show, seen what we're doing," Semler said. "They jumped to conclusions completely contrary to our intentions."

But word of the confectionary Christ infuriated Catholics, including Egan, who described it as "a sickening display." Bill Donohue, head of the watchdog Catholic League, said it was "one of the worst assaults on Christian sensibilities ever."

The hotel and the gallery were overrun Thursday with angry phone calls and e-mails. Semler said the calls included death threats over the work of artist Cosimo Cavallaro, who was described as disappointed by the decision to cancel the display. (Watch Cavallaro touch up the sculpture, explain its purpose )

"In this situation, the hotel couldn't continue to be supportive because of a fear for their own safety," Semler said.

The sculpture was to debut Monday evening, the day after Palm Sunday and just four days before Roman Catholics mark the crucifixion of Jesus Christ on Good Friday. The final day of the exhibit was planned for Easter Sunday.

Cavallaro is best known for his quirky work with food. Past efforts include repainting a Manhattan hotel room in melted mozzarella, spraying five tons of pepper jack cheese on a Wyoming home and festooning a four-poster bed with 312 pounds of processed ham.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/30/chocolate.jesus.ap/index.html

 

[impirius]

Chalk up another one for the moron majority

 

[Instigator]

The religious fundamentalists have won again.

 

[Diafel]

Now that's what I call being hung on a cross.

 

[Dice]

Sacrelicious!

"I know I shouldn't eat thee, but..."

 

[BocoDragon]

Christians should just admit that they prohibit images of their spiritual leader...

It's okay if Jesus is sad and bleeding... but it's not okay if he's sweet and tasty..?

 

[zon]

The religious fundamentalists have won again.

PREYS DA LAWD

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Everybody's worried about offending Catholics, but what about the chocolate Jesus' feelings?

 

[Forceatowulf]

Bet if it was a white chocolate Jesus no one would've said shit

 

[disco]

i'm glad it's been taken down, nearly as bad as emin, hurst and banksy.

tacky, thoughtless, unimaginative crap.

 

[Furoba]

Bet if it was a white chocolate Jesus no one would've said shit

That's because white chocolate isn't really chocolate.