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[Ogrekiller]

Sigh you really are clueless =/ I'm done

I'm clueless? And you're the one saying that we would have this same situation if Capcom hadn't pulled this dodge?

Ignorance is bliss. Bask in yours.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I know that Capcom was infamous for milking their franchises in the past, but honestly, I cant remember a worst stretch of negative, anti consumer stretch than in the last two years.

Go back and read posts at the beginning of this gen, when DMC 4 screenshots were coming out, basically every page has CAPGOD posts on them.

Everyone is always excited at the beginning of the gen. Wait for the first Next Gen CoD pics or EA game stuff, it'll be the same way. As for the last 2 years, I think a lot of that might be that now there is more outlets to talk about it. More sites, more message boards, more blogs and podcasts, so it feels like a bigger story than it really is. Outside of the internet, I don't' think Capcom has that negative of a perception with gamers, they are probably just seen as another video game company.

But back in the day, it was almost a joke how much they would milk stuff. Even amongst my more casual friends, they would joke not to buy the next SF or RE game because a new one would be coming out so soon. That was their M.O.

I'm clueless? And you're the one saying that we would have this same situation if Capcom hadn't pulled this dodge?

Ignorance is bliss. Bask in yours.

He is saying if we had DLC in the 16 bit days, Capcom would have done the same thing they are doing now. Their business philosophy hasn't really changed that much.

 

[QisTopTier]

I'm clueless? And you're the one saying that we would have this same situation if Capcom hadn't pulled this dodge?

Ignorance is bliss. Bask in yours.

The same situation as the 12 characters not being on the first version of the game? Yup that's exactly what I'm saying.

He is saying if we had DLC in the 16 bit days, Capcom would have done the same thing they are doing now. Their business philosophy hasn't really changed that much.

A winner is you

 

[Blueblur1]

I have to say that I agree with Spaniard. I've been raging about this shit with each individual game on GAF and on Twitter for a while now.

Also, I want to say one thing about RE5. I am really tired of people calling it terrible. It's a great game even if it doesn't necessarily stack up when compared with it's direct predecessor. GAF'ers can be so hyperbolic.

 

[DR2K]

And how exactly do you know that all the extras added into DMC3 (especially the more forgiving difficulty mode that seemed to be one of the bigger selling points) weren't just stuff left on the cutting room floor from the original release?

Because one is blatently on the disc and being advertised as such, and one was extra content based on fan criticism. Like I said additation and subtraction.

 

[Flying Wonkey]

and I've said it before in another thread. This SAME EXACT SITUATION would of happened anyways. The whole reason we are getting dlc of the characters *yes they are on disc boohoo guess what fucking thawk and deejay were on sf4 as well* is that they are under contract from Namco to only have 1 disc release of the game. If that contract did not exist, the characters would not be on the disc, and we would have the super version most likely sometime between nov or feb

Source please.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

Completely unrelated to the DLC discussion going on, but personally the one thing that irks me the most about Capcom's western-approach is to hand successful mainstream franchises to western developers. Dead Rising is really the only decent example for me given the mythos of the game. I just find such an approach to be almost sacrilegious as someone who is invested in the characters and the mythos of the franchise. And it doesn't help, as mentioned already, that the pool of decent western developers is very small

 

[Raging Spaniard]

T-Hawk and Dee Jay were unfinished and unplayable. Thats not a proper example, its the equivalent of unfinished dungeons in Wind Waker.

 

[Riposte]

T-Hawk and Dee Jay were unfinished and unplayable. Thats not a proper example, its the equivalent of unfinished dungeons in Wind Waker.

I got the impression the current SFxTK characters are pretty rough and will be greatly changed at release, despite being far more complete than T-Hawk or Dee Jay.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

At worst RE5 is marginally inferior to "one of the best games ever made". What the best games are is updating constantly. I wouldn't say RE5 inherited the spot RE4 once held (maybe we should say Vanquish did), but I find it funny people try to paint the image that there is a valley between these games.

Thats because there is a valley between them in every way.
The game doesn't even feel anything like a Resident Evil game. I can't understand why thats even debatable it just isn't. Go play 1234 and then 5 and you tell me which one stands out as being RE - Arcade Edition!

Debating this with people sporting RE avatars probably isn't going to end well I should probably bow out.

 

[Valnen]

Thats because there is a valley between them in every way.
The game doesn't even feel anything like a Resident Evil game. I can't understand why thats even debatable it just isn't. Go play 1234 and then 5 and you tell me which one stands out as being RE - Arcade Edition!

Debating this with people sporting RE avatars probably isn't going to end well I should probably bow out.

So? That does not make it a bad game. The problem with gamers lately is if a game isn't the best damn thing ever, then it's complete shit. Reality doesn't work like that =/.

 

[Steaks]

From a pure design perspective, Capcom fighters have gotten progressively worse. It's impossible to tell if it's meddling from higher ups or the actual people in charge of stuff, but just observing Capcom fighting games has made me increasingly depressed.

SF4 was okay, and then it went downhill from there. I really wish I could pick the brain of whatever is going on. I haven't enjoyed a Capcom game since SF4 release, and I might (might) like Dragon's Dogma.

 

[Riposte]

Thats because there is a valley between them in every way.
The game doesn't even feel anything like a Resident Evil game. I can't understand why thats even debatable it just isn't. Go play 1234 and then 5 and you tell me which one stands out as being RE - Arcade Edition!

Debating this with people sporting RE avatars probably isn't going to end well I should probably bow out.

Resident Evil 5 "feels" a lot like Resident Evil 4 and Resident Evil 4 "feels" very different from Resident Evil 1. Saying "feels" is dumb.

Resident Evil isn't my favorite series, I just like the cutscenes and Wesker in Marvel vs Capcom 3 enough to make it a face. Stop being so afraid of avatars.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

So? That does not make it a bad game.

Like I said if it was marketed as a spin-off series or hell house of the dead or something that would be good and fine but it sucks when your one of the millions of people that have RE4 in their top 10 games of all time and this is the sequel you have been waiting for...seriously?

Resident Evil 5 "feels" a lot like Resident Evil 4 and Resident Evil 4 "feels" very different from Resident Evil 1. Saying "feels" is dumb.

Resident Evil isn't my favorite series, I just like the cutscenes and Wesker in Marvel vs Capcom 3. Stop being so afraid of avatars.

4 from a gameplay perspective is Resident Evil perfected, but the atmosphere and soul of Resident Evil is not only all over RE4 but it is the best iteration of any of those concepts introduced from the earlier versions. Yes you can argue that you move Chris in the same way as you have come accustomed to in RE5 but thats it.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

RE5 doesn't "suck" per se, but it is seriously mediocre when it is inevitably compares to RE4. It's biggest flaw is being "bland", so even as an action game it doesn't do much. Personally, RE5 shows how important it is to have a director who has an overarching vision of the game, let alone of someone of Mikami's caliber

That being said, Mercenaries wasn't too bad

 

[QisTopTier]

RE5 doesn't "suck" per se, but it is seriously mediocre when it is inevitably compares to RE4. It's biggest flaw is being "bland", so even as an action game it doesn't do much. Personally, RE5 shows how important it is to have a director who has an overarching vision of the game, let alone of someone of Mikami's caliber

That being said, Mercenaries wasn't too bad

My main issue of RE 5 was the stupid ass AI that literally walked in front of your shots and stood there.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Here it is^. It's never happened before, ever, for a first iteration of a fighting game, but Capcom sucks because they didn't do it.

Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi. 56 characters, first iteration. you're welcome.

 

[QisTopTier]

Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi. 56 characters, first iteration. you're welcome.

You gonna post up dynasty warriors next? I don't think anyone thinks of those dbz games when it comes to fighting games really. Oh and wasnt tenkaichi the 4th game. Oh and a lot of those dbz characters are really fucking shallow gameplay wise as well. -.- Super DBZ is the only one that actually plays pretty legitly and isnt shallow as hell.

Edit: no seriously it's pretty awesome

 

[Riposte]

My main issue of RE 5 was the stupid ass AI that literally walked in front of your shots and stood there.

Unsatisfactory AI also plagued Lost Planet 2. Probably worse in that case though. (I guess the moral of the story is not to play alone on the harder difficulties.)

 

[BeautifulMemory]

My main issue of RE 5 was the stupid ass AI that literally walked in front of your shots and stood there.

lol oh man I did my professional run with the rocket launcher...

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi. 56 characters, first iteration. you're welcome.

Yeah but how many of them are really that different from each other? How many of them have "Super-Explosive Wave" as a super attack? And they touted over 100 characters by counting all of the transformations, which is lame as hell.

Also one of those characters is Chiaotzu.

Fuck Chiaotzu.

 

[Comet]

RE5 isn't terrible whatsoever, but c'mon, it pales in comparison to 4. How is this even a debate? Let's go punch some more boulders.

 

[Riposte]

RE5 isn't terrible whatsoever, but c'mon, it pales in comparison to 4. How is this even a debate? Let's go punch some more boulders.

Real men don't run from boulders.

 

[StunandStab]

I would much rather play RE5 than RE4 any day

 

[Ogrekiller]

You gonna post up dynasty warriors next? I don't think anyone thinks of those dbz games when it comes to fighting games really. Oh and wasnt tenkaichi the 4th game. Oh and a lot of those dbz characters are really fucking shallow gameplay wise as well. -.- Super DBZ is the only one that actually plays pretty legitly and isnt shallow as hell.

Edit: no seriously it's pretty awesome

Tenkaichi is completely different from budokai, to the point of having different dev teams. The only thing they shared was the name Budokai was handled by Dimps, tenkaichi by spike.

 

[DR2K]

RE5 isn't terrible whatsoever, but c'mon, it pales in comparison to 4. How is this even a debate? Let's go punch some more boulders.

Because it controls better, looks better(artictically), has more features, a better plot, and personally I like the main characters a lot better. Both good games, I just prefer the direction RE5 went in.

 

[EternalGamer]

I feel bad for Ono

And I miss the shit out of Inafune. WHY U FORSAKE US BRO?! I thought we were friends?

Is using "bro" in all caps phrases in this manner now a thing?

I find that far more annoying than anything Capcom has ever did.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Yeah but how many of them are really that different from each other? How many of them have "Super-Explosive Wave" as a super attack? And they touted over 100 characters by counting all of the transformations, which is lame as hell.

Also one of those characters is Chiaotzu.

Fuck Chiaotzu.

Really? You're defending the game with cats with the exact same moveset as the 2 main characters?

And Chiaotzu was the shit. Ur just jealous he has more hair.

 

[QisTopTier]

Really? You're defending the game with cats with the exact same moveset as the 2 main characters?

Those characters do not really exist, they are sorta just there for the ps3 version. You should of said something about ryu and ken and you would of had more merit in your argument.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Really? You're defending the game with cats with the exact same moveset as the 2 main characters?

And Chiaotzu was the shit. Ur just jealous he has more hair.

I wasn't defending any game in that post. What are you talking about?

 

[Ogrekiller]

Those characters do not really exist, they are sorta just there for the ps3 version. You should of said something about ryu and ken and you would of had more merit in your argument.

Eh the shotoclone defense has been done a 100 times before.

I wasn't defending any game in that post. What are you talking about?

The context was that no other first iteration fighting game other than SFXT ever had 50 (+) characters at launch.

 

[Femmeworth]

I would much rather play RE5 than RE4 any day

Because it controls better, looks better(artictically), has more features, a better plot, and personally I like the main characters a lot better. Both good games, I just prefer the direction RE5 went in.

 

[Axis]

all your bitching won't make skullgirls any better.

 

[AZ Greg]

all your bitching won't make skullgirls any better.

 

[djplaeskool]

I would much rather play RE5 than RE4 any day

Really? ...really?

 

[toddhunter]

Because it controls better, looks better(artictically), has more features, a better plot, and personally I like the main characters a lot better. Both good games, I just prefer the direction RE5 went in.

A bit OT, but I would have previously thought you were crazy. However I recently purchased and played through the updated RE4 on PSN.

To be honest, as great as it was at the time, it just doesn't really hold up well today. I think some of the hate (besides the whole coop thing) for RE5 is just a reflection on how RE4 is no longer that good (not saying it wasn't one of the best games ever made, just that it no longer would be if released today). And just to confuse things more, the primary reason RE4 is no longer as good, is because of RE4 being released. It broke a bit of new ground for me, but now the wonder is gone so revisiting it, or playing RE5 which follows along the same lines just isn't the same.

I still think RE4 is probably better to play, RE5 had some serious flaws from my taste...but I can certainly appreciate your point of view.

 

[enzo_gt]

all your bitching won't make skullgirls any better.

Can we not bring Skullgirls into this thread?

I mean, it's pretty much ham fisted into every other FG thread already, and has an OT now too. Pretty unrelated to the issues at hand.

 

[vg260]

But characters? 5 was bad enough but another 1/4 of the ENTIRE cast after that? That's inexcusable, considering characters pretty much make up the game.

Simply looking at percentages is being short-sighted. It's 1/4 of an already large cast. The base cast is not a piddly amount. It's pretty darn beefy when you look at fighting games. What if there were 80 characters and 20 of those were DLC. That's 1/4 of the ENTIRE CAST! Would you still be complaining if they only gave of 60 of those in the core game. Would that not be enough simply because more exists? The point is, you have to take the value/content of the core product into consideration if you're going to make that argument. You'd have a hard time trying to claim that a 38 character roster is skimpy for the first iteration of a fighting game when you look at the genre's history. If they put out a game with 20 total characters and 5 of them locked, then maybe this argument would have some weight.

Also, you're right that is a ton of content. It's a ton of content that takes a lot of development time/resources regardless of what "budget" it was under. People seem to forget that this is just another company trying to maximize their profit. Employee time is valuable. If not making DLC content, they're not just sitting around doing nothing. There's a point where they reach diminishing returns when adding content to a game.

I've had plenty of angry rants against some of Capcom's dumb development decisions or prioritizing, but I just can't side with this argument here, especially given how game development works now. I think people's expectations here are simply out of touch with reality.

Nothing at capcom is any different then it's ever been, you don't think if DLC was around in the days of 16 bit that arcades would have had to pay extra to upgrade older street fighter 2's into championship editions and so on and so forth ? Or that new characters wouldn't have been sold seperatly had they been able to ? The answer is that they and everyone else would have happilly done that 20 years ago if there was a way to pull it off. It's only in the last 6 years that there IS a way to do it. It'd actually be stupid NOT to add DLC to a game. Even throwing it on the disc , everyone complains about SFXtekken because all 12 characters are already there and hackers have been unlocking them. Well, here's the thing the main title already has a crapton of shit on it , so why is it so bad to budget X for what you have now and then add Y to the budget to make 25% more characters available and should the majority of those assets be ready to go within the same development cycle toss them on the disc. Rather then complaining about a business trying to make money off their consumers vote with your dollar and don't buy the game or don't get the DLC keys, it's not rocket science.

Also consider the alternative- they simply don't make those characters at all and no one wins. OR option 2, they go back after release and make a new version of the game which in turn costs twice as much as downloading the keys does... again, everyone is worse off in both those scenarios. It's just another case of gamers being nothing but a bunch of whiny over entitled crybabies.

If games cost now what the comparative increase in development cost is we'd all be paying 200$ for each game off the shelf. No one wants that, so companies have to find other ways to come close t making up that difference. Or, stop making games look better to keep budgets smaller.

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[sleepykyo]

If you want to compare, thats not nearly as bad as having 12 dlc characters in a fighting game. Its not even close.

Yes, there was some dlc when Inafune was in charge, thats unavoidable .... but its been exacerbated since he left.

Disagree .

8 characters for merc extra
Lost in Shadows prequel
Desperate Escape sidestory
Versus competitive unlock
Gold edition being incompatible with regular+dlc

Short of an epilogue ‚ everything was monetized. In fg terms‚ RE5 would have charging for the exp characters ‚ arcade endings ‚ player lobbies and vanilla and super being incompatible even though they sold all the super characters as dlc for vanilla .

 

[Esura]

It is a bad opinion because Resident Evil 4 is a much better game than Resident Evil 5.

No it isn't.

Because it controls better, looks better(artictically), has more features, a better plot, and personally I like the main characters a lot better. Both good games, I just prefer the direction RE5 went in.

Agreed 100%.

Don't know why people laughing at the idea of someone preferring to play RE5 over RE4. I'm with that person. RE5 made Chris go from bland to cool. It had Wesker kicking ass. It had a BLONDE Jill. RE5 is chock full of quality.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Simply looking at percentages is being short-sighted. It's 1/4 of an already large cast. The base cast is not a piddly amount. It's pretty darn beefy when you look at fighting games. What if there were 80 characters and 20 of those were DLC. That's 1/4 of the ENTIRE CAST! Would you still be complaining if they only gave of 60 of those in the core game. Would that not be enough simply because more exists? The point is, you have to take the value/content of the core product into consideration if you're going to make that argument. You'd have a hard time trying to claim that a 38 character roster is skimpy for the first iteration of a fighting game when you look at the genre's history. If they put out a game with 20 total characters and 5 of them locked, then maybe this argument would have some weight.

Also, you're right that is a ton of content. It's a ton of content that takes a lot of development time/resources regardless of what "budget" it was under.

Funny, because for me it's the opposite: the total number is irrelevant to the percentage.
Plus it's not just the number; it's the escalation as well. Before SFXT MVC only had 1-2 chaacters at most as on disc dlc. Then out of nowhere that number jumps to 12.

And obviously that takes a large budget. But it's obvious that the extra characters were not made because they lacked money. They are already there, right now, with absolutely no return to show for it until they start to sell them. They had the budget to make the game in the first place with the characters.

People seem to forget that this is just another company trying to maximize their profit. Employee time is valuable. If not making DLC content, they're not just sitting around doing nothing. There's a point where they reach diminishing returns when adding content to a game.

I've had plenty of angry rants against some of Capcom's dumb development decisions or prioritizing, but I just can't side with this argument here, especially given how game development works now. I think people's expectations here are simply out of touch with reality.



This pretty much sums it up.

And people seem to be forgetting people are trying to maximize our value from the product we bought. The industry doesn't care how hard I work for my dollars, only that I give as many to them as possible. Why should I care about how much they spend? They are compensated for their work by being paid already.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Like most Japanese developers, creativity has been stifled because they look to the West for inspiration. Games like Lost Planet are a waste of time, in my opinion.

 

[Papercuts]

Haha, I love how it mentions the co-op feature integration in arcade, mentions fight request to go online while in this mode, but neglects to mention that the cooperative buddy would be forced to sit out.

 

[Riposte]

Like most Japanese developers, creativity has been stifled because they look to the West for inspiration. Games like Lost Planet are a waste of time, in my opinion.

Because Lost Planet plays like Gears of War?

 

[Pachterballs]

if anything; CAPCOM is going it right with the nickle and dime.

whatever you think of it; they're going to rake money in.

I mean, uncharted3/gears3 - epic and ND both also nickled and dimed with their ridiculous DLC packages. its the future. Embrace it.

Its very anti consumer but hey; you don't have to buy this shit. I didn't buy a single uncharted3 or Gears 3 DLC.

 

[darkblade77]

And obviously that takes a large budget. But it's obvious that the extra characters were not made because they lacked money. They are already there, right now, with absolutely no return to show for it until they start to sell them. They had the budget to make the game in the first place with the characters.

They wouldn't have given the team the budget to make those additional characters unless they could monetize them in a way unrelated to the original purchase. I don't see what's hard to follow about this... You bring up MvC3 as an example and this literally happened; they had extended DLC plans for the game, but they were scrapped because of the poor sales or the tsunami or both and we got another disc release(Ultimate) which at least in part had content originally planned to be monetized as DLC for vanilla MvC3.

 

[Femmeworth]

Don't know why people laughing at the idea of someone preferring to play RE5 over RE4. I'm with that person. RE5 made Chris go from bland to cool. It had Wesker kicking ass. It had a BLONDE Jill. RE5 is chock full of quality.

Wesker did no such thing, Chris was a rock punching buffoon, and Jill looks better as a brunette.

 

[Electivirus]

Crappy business practices abound, but they've still made plenty of games this gen that I've enjoyed, so they're mostly alright with me. Sorry, folks!

 

[Ogrekiller]

They wouldn't have given the team the budget to make those additional characters unless they could monetize them in a way unrelated to the original purchase. I don't see what's hard to follow about this... You bring up MvC3 as an example and this literally happened; they had extended DLC plans for the game, but they were scrapped because of the poor sales or the tsunami or both and we got another disc release(Ultimate) which at least in part had content originally planned to be monetized as DLC for vanilla MvC3.

But that's just it; they HAD the resources to do it AND they did it in time for release unlike MVC3 (excluding Shuma and Jill who were already done and on the disc) yet they felt the need to monetize them. Even if you overlooked the 12 characters and the on disc part, we still don't get them EVEN IF WE WANTED TO PAY FOR THEM NOW. Not to mention that the VITA version of the game gets them FOR FREE.

 

[Esura]

Wesker did no such thing, Chris was a rock punching buffoon, and Jill looks better as a brunette.

So...Wesker didn't kick ass right? Whatever you say.


They are better than the cheesy Leon "Small Time" Kennedy, Ashley the bimbo, and Ada "ooo lookey here I'm sexy and a wannabe badass" Wong.