I was talking about my own mental state and defending removal of world 4 seriously affected it.
and it was also a joke
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Capcom: "'On disc DLC no different than download"
- Thread starter Bulzeeb
- Start date
I was talking about my own mental state and defending removal of world 4 seriously affected it.
Do you understand that a company can create a content in paralell with the game's development and simply lock it up for laters, sell it as DLC, and not even include it on the disk? And you understand that there is no way for us to verify this?
So, instead of going by the definition that "DLC" had in 2005-2006, let us look at what they are using it for (every publisher!): selling content that is not ACCESSIBLE to the players for money. That is it.
"AUC" should be the name (Additional Unlockable Content) or simply AC, but still: there is no point in blaming Capcom specifically and ignoring that we have no way to judge whether a content was developed in paralell to the game or not with every single other publisher.
And no, realistically speaking, one should thank Capcom for saving global bandwidth with the inclusion of the content instead of wasting server capacity, user's download limit, power, HDD space on the 360's/PS3's and time that it takes to download all characters. That is my point of view on this.
The sole thing I think one should judge this is whether the content is worth it or not. If not? do not buy. Same goes for SfxT itself. 38 character not enough? Well, buy something else that has more character, if that is what you want. ; )
walking fiend
Member
It is better, at least no bandwidth will be wasted.
sechsterangriff
Member
Maybe I have a narrow vision, but I get the sense that people are forgetting that games are basically software and the disc is just a storage option.
If you're used to buy software, then you're no stranger to the fact that there are times you have to buy a different license to access all the functionality of a program or a software suite, even though all the necessary files, and data are included in the installer.
I don't say I like this model applied to games, but the simple fact is that you're buying a license to access specific content and software functionality and storage. So technically Capcom is totally right in my opinion. But them being right doesn't mean mean I'll be spending a dime in this business model...
If you're used to buy software, then you're no stranger to the fact that there are times you have to buy a different license to access all the functionality of a program or a software suite, even though all the necessary files, and data are included in the installer.
I don't say I like this model applied to games, but the simple fact is that you're buying a license to access specific content and software functionality and storage. So technically Capcom is totally right in my opinion. But them being right doesn't mean mean I'll be spending a dime in this business model...
Does a game feel finished or do you feel like you are being ripped off? What the letter of the law says is kind of irrelevant. Do customers feel satisfied when they know there are finished characters locked up on a disk that they already payed money for?
Perhaps this is technically true, Capcom may be within their rights to withhold their content any way they see fit, but it sure doesn't change the way I feel about it.
Perhaps this is technically true, Capcom may be within their rights to withhold their content any way they see fit, but it sure doesn't change the way I feel about it.
Well, perception is very important. I'm well aware we would have no way of knowing if they just removed it off the disc but already had it complete, but we also have no way of knowing other developers are doing the same shady practices. I'm sure many of them are, as they want to get as much profit as possible and are certainly not our friends. However, we are still the piece of the puzzle that keeps them all employed, and they're slowly pushing people more and more with this stuff. It doesn't really matter if it's just Capcom or not, at this rate I hope another crash happens so these people wise up.
I also still think the characters here would already be out, it's more on the Vita version being unexpectedly delayed causing some stupid contract hangup that means they're sitting on content they didn't plan on holding back like this. SFxT also has multiple things on top of just the characters. I'm still curious to see what's happening regarding gems and whatever price they actually plan on attaching to that.
We agree, except for one thing: not the developers benefit from this , but the publishers. Big difference. I have yet to see a game designer directly state that their wish was to butcher up their game ambitions into tiny pieces of DLC.
Also, this is a two way street: they are still artists, providing entertainment for us. And with this regard, I personally consider the makers of fighting games two or three categories above those that simply create games with anything between 5-30 hours of gameplay contained in them, still having DLC. Their games are more important to me than me keeping that money I need to pay in order to enjoy the games for years(!) - or in worst case scenario, months.
Sojgat said:
You did not pay for those characters. You paid for the physical disc which is worth around $0.50-$1.50 nowadays. That is exactly the amount that you are paying for with "paying for the disc" - the software that sits on the disc is what warrants the price, not the method of delivery itself. If you buy a Windows 7 Home, you should not feel bad knowing that Ultimate features still sit on the disc. You did not pay for that license, after all. And that disc is still $0.50-$1.50.
FleckSplat
Member
You are acting like people are totally powerless and are being forced to pay for the DLC.
OK Here we go. What's one of the arguments for DLC? That shit had a separate budget right? OK. In SF4 vanilla they completed the costumes way way before the console release. When the console version was released they put those costumes on disc and charged you to pay for them. I think that's ucked up but then you argue that separate development time and budget had to be allocated and shit like that. Still shitty but whatever. then hat happened in SSF4? Code was copy and pasted onto the new game. These same costumes which did not take any additional development time you still had to pay to use, despite the fact negligible development time was needed. I am not talking about the new costumes to SSF4 i am talking about SF4's alts. Same shit happened in AE you still had to pay for shit present in old games despite no additional work needed. Do you understand?
FleckSplat
Member
Sounds like you just want things for free and expect it to be given to you, honestly.
Technically it may be true. I'm no expert on u.s law, but I saw reasonable arguments of on-disk dlc being undistinguished from downloadable dlc under the U.S law.
But still doesn't change the fact that there IS a difference in the real life. I agree with ShackNews’s take on this, With day-one DLC and locked on-disk content (that can be easily be checked and discovered by the hacking community), the consumer knows when the publisher is willing to lock already done content from them for sake of squishing even more money from their wallets. It is about PR and fan perception, and this DLC policy is not doing any good for Capcom and EA's reputation.
But still doesn't change the fact that there IS a difference in the real life. I agree with ShackNews’s take on this, With day-one DLC and locked on-disk content (that can be easily be checked and discovered by the hacking community), the consumer knows when the publisher is willing to lock already done content from them for sake of squishing even more money from their wallets. It is about PR and fan perception, and this DLC policy is not doing any good for Capcom and EA's reputation.
Yeah, publishers. Eff em. I'm still aware that the teams making these games are dedicated and great at what they do, but either way the products that have been coming out aren't getting supported by me when this baggage is attached.
Er, am I? I'm more saying the companies being so blatant with the DLC is making me full out stop supporting them, and capcom is right at the top of my list right now. They still make great games, but I'm not buying them new.
What is happening here is that Capcom is making sure that the people who actually PAID for the costumes are not feeling ripped off - so their purchase does not get devaluated. It would be very bad business practice to sell a game for $60 with DLC and then make that DLC a part of a game that costs $40 AND that new release has new stuff in it as well.
Also, it does not actually matter when they are made. This is not a development process and not a development issue. It is the publishers playing a 22 trap with the developers AND with the customers while trying to maintain profitability.
Because if the game does not sell well enough?
Then the DLC sales MIGHT make the project profitable after all.
And if the game sells well enough?
Then the greed kicks in (see: Modern Warfare), and they want to capitalize on that success.
I am not saying that we should get behind the whole DLC thing, but there is a reasonable way to approach this, and there is an unreasonable one.
I do not see Capcom doing it. Never saw a game of the year edition for SFIV/SSFIV/SSFIV:AE, or MVC3/UMVC3, for that matter.
Why would people feel ripped off if the next version of a game ahd all the content from the previous version. I don't get it?
NeonZ
Member
In those cases though, had you bought the costumes before, you kept them afterwards, even in the SF4 -> SSF4 transition, with SSF4 being compatible with the past purchases. It's not like they were making people buy the same costumes multiple times.
shinobi602
Member
Well technically they are right....
Downloadable content= DLC
Disc-Locked content= DLC
Downloadable content= DLC
Disc-Locked content= DLC
True again, but it does leave you feeling like you have just payed for an unfinished game 2 or 3 times.
MikeE21286
Member
Except for the fact that you save on bandwidth costs and it's already completed prior to release. Amirite Capcpom
Is there any situation in which you could *not* feel ripped off without increasing Capcom's costs or decreasing their revenue?
ResidentDante
Member
Your avatar is making me read it in Newman's voice with his serious face, a bit like the Seinfeld episode where they make Newman decide if Kramer or Elaine keeps a bike they bought.
YOU save your bandwidth too. You save HDD space as well. You save time as well.
This is Capcom getting a pass? Seriously? If this is Capcom getting a pass, I do not know what Capcom "getting what they deserve" even would mean. A flogging? Deathrow?
Guys, I think the point has been made.
Bull shit!
It's dishonest plain and simple. Why not just simply make it available?
E.g. From the Ashes for ME3. It is part of the deal when you buy the collectors edition of the game. Why not simply make it available from the start without downloading a tiny piece of code? Consumers are already paying a premium to have this content! Just sell it already unlocked! I believe the reason is that they are trying to deceive both the the collectors edition owners and the vanilla owners into believing that the DLC is something "extra".
Day one DLC is grimy in my book. But if I have a choice to buy a physical copy of the disc AND the data is on the disc don't artificially create hurdles to my access to my bonus content. It's dishonest. Plain and simple.
It's dishonest plain and simple. Why not just simply make it available?
E.g. From the Ashes for ME3. It is part of the deal when you buy the collectors edition of the game. Why not simply make it available from the start without downloading a tiny piece of code? Consumers are already paying a premium to have this content! Just sell it already unlocked! I believe the reason is that they are trying to deceive both the the collectors edition owners and the vanilla owners into believing that the DLC is something "extra".
Day one DLC is grimy in my book. But if I have a choice to buy a physical copy of the disc AND the data is on the disc don't artificially create hurdles to my access to my bonus content. It's dishonest. Plain and simple.
No, the reason for that is so they can have a single disc production SKU which covers manufacture for both CE versions and normal versions.
I believe this is only part of it. And also bullshit. CE owners are already paying a premium. pressing 2 sets of discs is not going to cost them that much more. If it does roll it into the cost of the CE edition or simply advertise the fact that there are hidden unlockables ON DISC. The downloading a simple unlock also costs them bandwidth and storage space on there servers. I doubt that are saving money doing it this way instead of unlocking it on the disc. It's deceitful money grab plain and simple.
Capcom PR gives a thumbs up
I never understand this argument. I think it's fair game to argue about DLC et.c but the delivery method doesn't matter. I don't get why it's part of the discussion. If everyone just decided to no longer buy on-disc DLC tomorrow then companies would just take the same content and take it off the disk and sell its for the same price as DLC.
In fact you could argue that for fighting games etc. it is better to have the DLC on the disk so you don't have the issues that Mortal Kombat online did with its DLC characters.
Whether the content is on the disc makes no difference. You still have to pay to use it.
In fact you could argue that for fighting games etc. it is better to have the DLC on the disk so you don't have the issues that Mortal Kombat online did with its DLC characters.
Whether the content is on the disc makes no difference. You still have to pay to use it.
Probably enough to make it worth it to them, I guess. Cost was the reason they didn't distribute a costume compatibility patch on the PS3 for Super and just gave you a "you have not purchased this costume" message instead.
I find the backlash pretty silly since a lot of complaints are solely based on the delivery method with the same end result.
I also think it's ridiculous how there just seems to be a lot of blind bandwagon hate for one company instead of looking at the cost/value proposition. Stuff like Namco's SCV music DLC is far more egregious based on how little development work is done. They're charging $1 a pop for 108KB unlock keys for pre-existing music tracks. 26 total. So $26 if you want all the music. It's not mandatory, but I think there's an amazing difference in level of effort and value in 12 characters than dumping a sound file into a game. Apparently people are ok with that, but not characters. Apparently the more value the content has, more they demand to get all of it for free. People don't seem to be taking every opportunity to create a new thread when Microsoft release a new theme for $3. I don't see how asking customers to pay for characters in a fighting game that require so much more effort by comparison is so much worse.
shinobi602
Member
I'm not gonna read through 19 pages!
It was either get backlash for having the content on the disc or get backlash for not having the DLC characters work in online multiplayer because not everyone will have them.
I think they made the right choice.
Yes. A fighting game in particular should be a singular thing, stop selling it piecemeal and maybe more people would buy it. DLC stages for a fighting game would make way more sense, but then that would take more work than putting Ken in a fucking cowboy hat.
No, it's pretty much *all* of it.
It's doubling the certification processes they have to go through.
Make people pay more to cover their inefficiency which they're only doing to placate the people who apparently are demanding that the inefficiency takes place?
My head hurts.
That *shouldn't* matter. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter - we're clearly seeing otherwise - but it shouldn't.
Not as much as the alternative. Besides, this also allows them to *sell* the simple unlock - using the *exact same framework* - as well as give it away for free. That is an efficient solution.
They are.
There is no actual deception, here; every option is presented in an honest manner. I'm not disputing the money grab!
Unlikely. Or rather, Capcom should have done the costings and come to the conclusion that it's not the case that *sufficiently* more people would buy it to justify that approach. They should have a fairly good idea by now of how large their potential audience is.
I'm not actually much of a fighter player; aren't (non-interactive) stages just as cosmetic as a cowboy hat?
I don't particularly blame you, particularly with search being unreliable right now. Just amused at the fact that so many made the same observation.
I just think that if they kept the new characters under wraps and off the disc, and announced that 12 new characters would be available as DLC for $20 before the end of the year, we would be singing their praises. "It's a super update, but you don't have to buy a new disc!" we'd say.
Instead they got this thread and severe backlash. Some people who would've bought the DLC aren't because it's on the disc. Some people didn't even buy the game because of this crap. Was it really worth it?
RedNumberFive
Banned
Yup, I'm all but done buying Capcom fighters. I don't play them online, and prefer to play them live, with friends that are equally as bad at them as I. Generally, I'd grab the game and a sixer of beer, and bring them to a friend's place. I'm not comfortable with the idea of bringing 3/4 of a game, with the rest locked at home.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
I get why people are upset on principle about the concept of on-disc DLC, but do they honestly believe the alternative is functionally better for consumers?
Cosmetic, yes, but much more worthwhile. Plus wouldn't they be easier to implement, if the other player (online) doesn't have them, then they could play on a default background. No need to download content packs or have on-disc DLC. If nikel and diming their loyal fanbase is the only way Capcom can make money then they might as well not bother. They will kill of the fighting craze quicker than in the 90's leaving the hardcore by themselves playing their hacked 360 discs so they can use all the characters.
Completely subjective. Some people think characters are the focus so costumes are more worthwhile.
So basically: Be more inefficient, and no-one will complain. Be efficient, and people will have a problem with it.
In that respect, you're basically arguing against your own self-interest, here.