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Capcom: RE4 & 5 didn't ditch horror, they were a different kind of horror...
- Thread starter Speedymanic
- Start date
"With Resident Evil 5 it was more about the light and darkness and these new things we were finally able to do with the hardware to see the contrast in the environments and those different types of surprising and interesting experiences. It was a kind of new horror."
That's not the RE5 I played. I do agree on RE4's regard, but end game you're just too much of a powerhouse.
That's not the RE5 I played. I do agree on RE4's regard, but end game you're just too much of a powerhouse.
jetsetfluken
Member
I was talking in another thread about a possibility that RE4 really missed out on: actually putting the JP/EU "Dr. Salvator" boxart situation into the game. What I'm saying is, alone and desolate with just him looming in the distance, closing in on you, and you not armed with overpowered shotguns and such either.
To be fair those RE4 boxarts make it seem like the game is true survival horror and Leon, instead of following a linear path, is stranded out in the vast, directionless woods with all 8 directions open to him...and in the foggy distance Dr. Salvator lurks.
But instead he only appears once or twice and it's not a mystery or creepy, he's there with other Ganados right in your face with fair warning on your linear path.
What could have been...
To visualize what the setting would be like that I described in that should-have-been-in-RE4 scenario:
I guess you could say this looks similar to the Village area in RE4. Tried to get a image that looks close to get you visualizing better.
That whole area, acres long, would be open to you, and you hear faint chainsaw sounds, but you don't know where it's coming from. He could appear at any moment and mow you down. You also can only see faintly in the distance due to the clouded fog.
That's horror Capcom!
Let's see stuff like that in RE6...combining the old RE "limited ammo/underpowered pistol only" (horror) with the RE4/RE5 "oh shit oh shit I'm surrounded/he's coming for me but I don't know where" (tension).
To be fair those RE4 boxarts make it seem like the game is true survival horror and Leon, instead of following a linear path, is stranded out in the vast, directionless woods with all 8 directions open to him...and in the foggy distance Dr. Salvator lurks.
But instead he only appears once or twice and it's not a mystery or creepy, he's there with other Ganados right in your face with fair warning on your linear path.
What could have been...
To visualize what the setting would be like that I described in that should-have-been-in-RE4 scenario:
I guess you could say this looks similar to the Village area in RE4. Tried to get a image that looks close to get you visualizing better.
That whole area, acres long, would be open to you, and you hear faint chainsaw sounds, but you don't know where it's coming from. He could appear at any moment and mow you down. You also can only see faintly in the distance due to the clouded fog.
That's horror Capcom!
Let's see stuff like that in RE6...combining the old RE "limited ammo/underpowered pistol only" (horror) with the RE4/RE5 "oh shit oh shit I'm surrounded/he's coming for me but I don't know where" (tension).
Mechanized
Member
Danielsan said:
I don't understand how you can say this when RE5 is an homage to 4 in every way possible.
The Lamonster
Member
Everything except for the final area (Island) in RE4 was straight-up horror.
BeautifulMemory
Member
One had a genius in MikamiMechanized said:
The other was simply an imitator, by choice or not
jetsetfluken
Member
The Lamonster said:
I don't know, the
Regenerators/Iron Maidens
But otherwise like the outside/spotlight areas on the island and such, totally action/shooter and no horror/tension.
plagiarize said:
I don't think that gore or foreboding environments are exclusive elements of horror. And you would need a lot more to classify Gears of War as a horror game. Same with RE5, in my opinion.
Action and horror aren't mutually exclusive at all. You're absolutely right. But I see no exclusive elements of horror in RE5.
dragonlife
Member
I personally liked RE5 much more than RE4. RE4 was awesome, but playing RE5 with my friend the night I bought it and playing it until we beat it was awesome. Local co-op's where it's at.
I also have no real issues with Sheva's AI. It has some hiccups here and there, but, for the most part, it's pretty good and gets the job done. I honestly think people that hate Sheva's AI don't bother to slow down a tiny bit for it or just never bothered to catch its patterns. I've done Professional with the AI. It was fine.
I have over 300 hours on the 360 version, and I've gotten all Achievements twice (first time the data somehow got corrupted). I recently picked up the PC version and am loving it as well. It just never gets old for me. RE5 is honestly one of the most entertaining games I've played, but that may be because I don't play too many TPS/FPS games for it to have felt underwhelming.
Also, I personally loved Chris's design *cough*
I'll have to go back to RE4 again. I only beat it once and didn't feel compelled to play it again. It's been a while, so hopefully it's like new again
Wii version FTW.
I also have no real issues with Sheva's AI. It has some hiccups here and there, but, for the most part, it's pretty good and gets the job done. I honestly think people that hate Sheva's AI don't bother to slow down a tiny bit for it or just never bothered to catch its patterns. I've done Professional with the AI. It was fine.
I have over 300 hours on the 360 version, and I've gotten all Achievements twice (first time the data somehow got corrupted). I recently picked up the PC version and am loving it as well. It just never gets old for me. RE5 is honestly one of the most entertaining games I've played, but that may be because I don't play too many TPS/FPS games for it to have felt underwhelming.
Also, I personally loved Chris's design *cough*
I'll have to go back to RE4 again. I only beat it once and didn't feel compelled to play it again. It's been a while, so hopefully it's like new again
Wii version FTW.BeautifulMemory
Member
The real gem of RE5 is Lost In Nightmare
The Hermit
Member
I can agree with Re4... the invisible insects, the dogs, blowing up ganados head revealing monsters that can cut your head out in one hit. Won't even mention the regenerators...
lol
D2M15 said:
lol
Lord_Byron28
Member
I thought RE4 was tense. It also had elements of horror in it. The first time entering the village getting attacked by villagers and then by the a guy weilding a chainsaw is horror, the lake boss, El Gigante and most of the castle segments were horror as well(dark sewers with invisible creatures attacking you, blind wolverine guy locked in the prison, salazar's right hand guy and regenerators). Most of the game was horror(this time it was more of a creepy cult than rabid zombies after you) except for Chapters 2 and 5. RE5 was the only one that went full on commando.
plagiarize
Banned
i'm not saying Gears is a horror game, i'm saying it's a game that absolutely contains horror elements, and has levels that most would agree were 'horror' (namedly the factory at night during the storm when you first meet the lambeth wretches).GuardianE said:
which part of RE5 do you not think horror? it just draws it's horror from other sources. are all those films i saw about african tribes practicing voodoo no horror any more? i see some of an argument for the more industrial settings nearer the end not being horror, but the opening section in the village through to the trainstation counts as horror to me in the same way that any zombie movie set during daylight still counts. the bits in the mine certainly count. the bits in the swamp surely count.
i'm not saying anything is 'exclusive' but if RE5 was a film it would be a horror film. it may not play like other scary games, but the visuals and the story, are absolutely horror in nature.
but here's part of the confusing nature of the term 'horror game'. no one defines a game, that i know of, by saying 'it's a sci-fi game'. if you say a game is sci-fi you wouldn't argue agaisnt it, whatever the genre was, so long as the game was sci-fi.
with horror, people expect certainly gameplay conventions to go with the term, because some people use the term 'horror game' when they really mean 'survival horror game'. 'horror game' doesn't define a type of gameplay, but a type of story, just the same as 'sci-fi game' or 'fantasy game' or 'comedy game'.
RE5 is horror. it isn't scary. it isn't as good as RE4. but it's horror. peoples heads exploded and big bat things come crawling out of their necks. what about that isn't horror.
dragonlife
Member
Oh, yeah, one thing I missed from RE4 in RE5 were all the different ways to die. RE4's were just...goddamn. My favorite is the one where the insect thing pours acid all over your face and your skin just melts away, revealing patches of flesh and skull. That one stuck with me.
brotkasten
Member
RE4 had some scary parts, but that doesn't make it a horror game. For me, it felt like being in an action movie and I liked it for what it was, but I could never count it as a horror game.
RE5 is definitely the best co-op game I've played this gen (didn't play many), but as a RE game it's pretty terrible. I don't know how anyone could be scared by that game.
RE5 is definitely the best co-op game I've played this gen (didn't play many), but as a RE game it's pretty terrible. I don't know how anyone could be scared by that game.
The inventory system, camera angles, ammo system and the way the character walked was part of the charm of the playstation resident evils.
Why must everything be updated? Why can't the character in a game like silent hill 2 be very weak? Does everything have to mimiock the latest action games, including the survivor horro games?
Why must everything be updated? Why can't the character in a game like silent hill 2 be very weak? Does everything have to mimiock the latest action games, including the survivor horro games?
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
yeah this is why I never got why people would complain about the games not being scary anymore. The games were never even about being scary I thought. Unless a series of jump scares makes something horror focused. and if that's the case atleast 4 still had that.
Games always seemed to be about completing a scenario with limited supplies, while 4 and 5 were a shift towards action.
I think missing the old style is a legitimate complaint, but not that they aren't as scary anymore
Regenerator section creeped me out more than anything else in the game
Save for maybe dog garden.
plagiarize said:
I think we just fundamentally disagree on what contitutes a piece of horror themed entertainment media. By that logic, any game where you get swarmed is horror. I guess Starcraft II is horror (I know that Starcraft has roots in the Aliens/Predator type of universe, but that certainly doesn't make it horror). Just because something has horror elements doesn't mean that it's a horror game. And I don't mean action horror vs. survival horror. I just mean horror. Any type of horror. RE5 is not it.
Parts of Call of Duty have you silently moving through the darkness and trying to infiltrate a base, seconds away from death once you're spotted, and then eventually swarmed by enemies once you need to make your getaway.
I would never make horror fit such a broad generalization.
The limited supplies made the original games scary though. You couldn't simply run and gun and health was just as rare. You felt more defenseless than RE4/5. Furthermore the original games had slower pacing, which is preferable when creating a horror atmosphere.Retro_ said:
That said, I've always been more of a Silent Hill type of horror guy. REmake is probably the only Resident Evil that truly scared the shit out of me due to a combination of superb atmosphere, level & enemy design as well as supply constraints.
AcceptableGhost
Member
.elohel said:
Action horror is what I have usually classified Resident Evil 4 and its clones (RE5 / Dead Space).
Although survival horror is kind of a dumb name anyway.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Danielsan said:
Yeah Silent Hill is what I'd consider a horror game. Even if you don't play it and just watch some of the cutscenes on youtube, the tone and imagery still convey this disturbing atmosphere to people that aren't playing
You just laugh at old RE games when it's not you actively playing(lol CV ending lol Wesker)
and thanks for reminding me to give REmake a shot.
Space Runaway
Member
RE4 was definitely a horror game. It does move into action and sci-fi during the second half of the game but it still dips back into more standard horror scenarios to try and scare you. Plus it has great atmosphere and music which really adds to the game.
RE5...well...I don't doubt they tried to make it a horror game but it didn't really end up that way. They also completely lost the dread filled tone/atmosphere from RE4 which definitely didn't help.
RE5...well...I don't doubt they tried to make it a horror game but it didn't really end up that way. They also completely lost the dread filled tone/atmosphere from RE4 which definitely didn't help.
I was confused as hell when I played through RE5 and later remembered statements like that from the developers. When in the world was this utilized? If I remember correctly, it was super-bright, then the sun started to set, and then the characters were indoors or in artificially-lit areas for the rest of the game.Boney said:
RE4 did the light/dark thing loads better than its next-gen copycat, hands-down, and no one even bragged about it. That's just funny.
Retro_ said:
The bit after the cabin where the Bella sisters (chainsaw ladies) showed up was genuinely scary to me on my first playthru, and the noises they make are still creepy even after killing thousands of them in Mercenaries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ty07oEpEQ&t=4m50s
plagiarize
Banned
And neither would I. I am not saying gears is a horror game. I am just saying that sections of it are like something out of a horror game.GuardianE said:
Not sure where you think I'm saying anything that goes for tension is horror.
RE5 is stuffed full of horror. To say it just has horror elements is selling it short. Look beyond the gameplay and tell me what you see. What do you call a story about a couple of people killing monster after monster?
Mr. B Natural
Member
I found RE5 more funny than horrifying. It was humor, not horror. So, yes, a COMPLETELY different "kind of horror," so much so it's spelled differently.
Correctomundo
Member
You guys are as funny as Capcom. Thanks for making me laugh. I needed it.
I've argued in the past that RE games were never really scary, since they all star special op bad ass mofos armed to the teeth. The zombies and BOWs might be scary to normal people, but to Chris or Claire Redfield? And so there are moments where the player may forget how incredibly bad ass their avatar is, but ultimately, the most dangerous thing in any RE game is controlled by the player.
RE4 is the game that really sells this concept, because not only is Leon the most bad ass of all the bad ass RE characters, the camera angle revamp really empowers the player. Most scares in RE games are the jump variety and are made possibly through funky camera angles. Once the camera was parked over Leon's shoulder, it became much more difficult for the designer to spring some terrifying surprise attack.
Some people argue that the scarcity of ammo and health items created a more pervasive sense of dread in the earlier games, and I agree, but only to a point. In practice, ammo scarcity is more annoying than scary, since failure to properly conserve ammo creates more than tension: it makes the game impossible. A bad player that spends every shell getting through the mansion won't be able to beat the guard house, and so on and so on. Getting rid of ammo scarcity may have made the games less scary, but it also made them more playable, and that's the right trade off.
The real problem is those camera angles. In RE4, the masterwork of a game developing legend, it's not really an issue. Mikami wasn't hamstrung by the all seeing eye of an OTS camera. He was able to create tense scenes even with the player having almost total knowledge of what was coming around the corner. Certainly, the regenerator attack, the introduction of the invisible bug monsters or the battle with Right Hand are as unsettling as a dozen zombie dogs leaping through inconspicuous windows.
But, take that same camera system and give it to a pretender, like the clown who made RE5, and the scares simply don't happen.
RE4 is the game that really sells this concept, because not only is Leon the most bad ass of all the bad ass RE characters, the camera angle revamp really empowers the player. Most scares in RE games are the jump variety and are made possibly through funky camera angles. Once the camera was parked over Leon's shoulder, it became much more difficult for the designer to spring some terrifying surprise attack.
Some people argue that the scarcity of ammo and health items created a more pervasive sense of dread in the earlier games, and I agree, but only to a point. In practice, ammo scarcity is more annoying than scary, since failure to properly conserve ammo creates more than tension: it makes the game impossible. A bad player that spends every shell getting through the mansion won't be able to beat the guard house, and so on and so on. Getting rid of ammo scarcity may have made the games less scary, but it also made them more playable, and that's the right trade off.
The real problem is those camera angles. In RE4, the masterwork of a game developing legend, it's not really an issue. Mikami wasn't hamstrung by the all seeing eye of an OTS camera. He was able to create tense scenes even with the player having almost total knowledge of what was coming around the corner. Certainly, the regenerator attack, the introduction of the invisible bug monsters or the battle with Right Hand are as unsettling as a dozen zombie dogs leaping through inconspicuous windows.
But, take that same camera system and give it to a pretender, like the clown who made RE5, and the scares simply don't happen.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Do it with a friend on professional! It's actually perfectly playable unlike the main campaign where it's one hit and lol you die. The Wesker fight is much more tenseSerenade said:
AwakenedCloud
Member
The only scary element in RE5 was the partner AI.
And the crocodiles.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
Capcom to fans: "Your opinion is wrooong!"
RE4 wasn't scary at all but it was an intense action game... the plot, the characters and everything else OTOH was kind of ridiculous.
RE1/REmake and RE2 were scary; you felt tense and uneasy while playing them and they toyed with your fears. That's a thing that is missing from the current RE games.
RE4 wasn't scary at all but it was an intense action game... the plot, the characters and everything else OTOH was kind of ridiculous.
RE1/REmake and RE2 were scary; you felt tense and uneasy while playing them and they toyed with your fears. That's a thing that is missing from the current RE games.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
The mines were the only time they utilized light and dark. L O L @ RE 5 being anything resembling horrific. Everything they attempted to do was done better by RE4. Sheva wasn't the problem with the game not being horrific: the atmosphere, level design, and the small details they left out were(character deaths....). How is the prison segment in RE4 with that shaking bag more horrific than RE5 in it's entirety. :|
RE 4 might not have been the scariest RE, but it was filled with horror elements, especially in the beginning. Seeing wheelbarrows filled with dead bodies, your partner burning at the stake, the lady's head stuck to the wall with a large weapon, etc... All of that sold the horrific nature of the situation you were in. I can't remember anything of the sort in the main campaign of RE.
They missed the horror mark entirely with RE5. The jump scares would have at least showed that they attempted to be somewhat scary...
LOL
RE 4 might not have been the scariest RE, but it was filled with horror elements, especially in the beginning. Seeing wheelbarrows filled with dead bodies, your partner burning at the stake, the lady's head stuck to the wall with a large weapon, etc... All of that sold the horrific nature of the situation you were in. I can't remember anything of the sort in the main campaign of RE.
They missed the horror mark entirely with RE5. The jump scares would have at least showed that they attempted to be somewhat scary...
D2M15 said:
LOL