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Capcom: RE6 experienced "inadequate organizational collaboration"
- Thread starter Averon
- Start date
I hope they scale it back and make something smaller. Resident Evil games were never huge bombastic adventures until recently. They can let those horrible films fill that niche for all I care.
Jawmuncher
Member
Was I one of only a few who didn't mind the big action feel of the game? I love all of the REs but we've been leading up to this since RE4 and RE5.
Yup, agreed. That's why I talked about them focusing on what made the older games great. It's harder to keep that focus on a project when you have ~600 people working on it. Give us a more seamless adventure with two protagonists at most and cut out that co-op shit or at least make it optional in the same way Dead Space handles it.
It's easier to jump to extremes, requires less thought.
I think their quality has faltered, but I don't think they make bad games. TBH, I don't think Japanese studios have had the easiest time adjusting this generation and it's a shame that Capcom is included when they started off really strong this gen.
Edit:
Bombastic bang bang games don't usually instill fear or suspense. There's a market for that type of game, but I enjoyed RE a lot more when it was as much about the mood as it was about any action that took place.
I also agree that it all started with RE4, which is why I consider RE4 the beginning of the downfall of horror in the franchise.
Resident Evil has been an action thriller game since the fourth installment so, no, I don't mind. I do mind that their campaign is a mess and the only mode I really like in the game is mercenaries. A mish mash of different, badly done set pieces, a less than ideal camera for an action game, and a disjointed story line left me disappointed.
This couldn't be more wrong. People wanted an internally-developed DMC5, and DMC4 did nothing to deter that (and certainly didn't "run the series further into the ground"). People did not want DmC, therefore they aren't buying it. It's that simple. The only point here is that a hypothetical DMC5 likely wouldn't have matched DMC4's sales numbers, but it certainly wouldn't have dropped far below every other installment as DmC did.
And the only reason DmC turned out even half as well as it did was because of Capcom themselves (it would've been a very different, and much worse, game if they left Ninja Theory entirely to their own devices, with the actual product still being a step back from 1, 3, and 4).
rockman zx
Member
I'm not going to discuss about internal stuff, because I don't work for Capcom, but you don't need to be nuclear scientific to tell what went wrong with the game, this sound like they want to blame something releated to organization when the root of evil was the design of the game.
semiconscious
Gold Member
"inadequate organizational collaboration"
would that this were an re6-exclusive problem
...
would that this were an re6-exclusive problem
...Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
I've seen this the first time. This is awesome.
Crapitalism
Banned
Well it had to be something didn't it.
Maybe when the HD Revelations outsells it, it will open their eyes.
Maybe when the HD Revelations outsells it, it will open their eyes.
Jawmuncher
Member
The biggest thing I wonder though is what's Capcoms plan for mood and fear like you said.
A lot of people comment on revelations bringing it back but I still feel it gets way to much love in that regard. RE4 brought with a bigger/new fanbase and I don't see capcom cutting them out for a return to horror. It'll be interesting to see what they do going forward since with all that said, they seem to be making a big deal about going back to its "scary" roots.
Okay I can understand this.
While I have enjoyed it I can see these complaints popping up for some.
You know I wouldn't be surprised at all If it doesn't. I honestly don't see it outselling RE6.
Sure it has the advantage of a simultaneous release, but I seriously don't see it doing more business unless a lot of advertising is done.
fart town usa
Banned
It reminds me of the republicans here in the states and how they're still trying to figure out why they lost the election.
Stop ignoring reality as well as what the people want and maybe you'll figure something out for a change.
However, I had lots of fun with RE6.
Stop ignoring reality as well as what the people want and maybe you'll figure something out for a change.
However, I had lots of fun with RE6.
I only played it after smoking weed and on easy. I'd melee everything and plow through enemies. After all that I still felt that it was an embarrassment of a game.
Uh, DMC4 is the highest selling DMC game in the series. And the word of mouth is anything but good for DmC unless you are only factoring in reviewers.
Jawmuncher
Member
The only bad word of mouth from people I know is anyone who was a hardcore top player in DMC. Anyone who just enjoyed the series as is seems to like DmC though there are of course both sides shown depending on where you look.
Also I still give the higher sales to it being early gen and its first multiplatform DMC game.
Though since we didnt get a DMC5 its hard to see if it really would have sold better than DmC.
Exactly this, they tried to be to many things at once confusing too many players expectations.
Again, whilst it may indeed be the root cause for RE6's problems that is not what the article in the OP is saying:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=47468280#post47468280
DmC doesn't have any better word of mouth than DMC 4 did, and the average review scores are almost exactly the same. What it does have is projected sales that are not even half of what DMC 4 sold.
This false narrative people have been peddling about DMC 4 for years to justify the reboot is quite something, especially now after DmC has flopped. DMC 4 didn't run anything into the ground, it was the highest selling entry in the series.
Did they? The game sold mostly on name alone. The RE franchise is strong even with 2 shitty titles in a row. The franchise could be enormous if they made a great game instead.
It would, because it probably wouldn't of had this negative pre release stigma around it like DmC. From straight out of the gate, hell before that when Ninja Theory was only rumored to be developing a DMC game, this game got nothing but (rightfully so imo) hate. Fans wanted DMC5, fans got something else and it reflects the sales.
Seems kind of revisionist to be honest. Capcom starting making people think DMC4 was some sort of major flop.
what? They've completely salted the earth for the Devil May Cry franchise
I almost wish they would have branched off the RE series into different game types. Keep the more intimate horror game as the main series, but then branch off and have action and co-op based sub-games for those that are looking for that type of experience. This way they could still have regular releases, but take their time between the different types of RE games. By taking their time and doing it this way, I think it would minimize the risk of diluting the franchise.
Agreed. That budget could also easily be put to other resources.
Knowing them, they will completely outsource it now.
Yeah...I don't think Capcom is ever going to omit co-op or make it optional. It's kind of a key element to new RE games I think now.
I'm still firmly believe that a game could still retain horror elements while being co-op.
Jawmuncher
Member
The only way Capcom can ever prove anything is if they indeed release a DMC5 and the sales speak for themselves.
If it's higher than DmC out of the gate than thats something, though im not sure if DmC would hurt sales of a regular DMC game.
As for DMC4 part of my opinion from it comes from just not enjoying it very much. The combat was good but everything else was extremely lacking.
Since I'm just a regular joe when it comes to DMC (I've beat them all on normal and DmC on nephilim) the story and everything else is part of what I enjoyed, and DmC easily offered something better than DMC4 in that regard. But I blame capcom more for that, they've had trouble doing game stories for years even RE takes A hit from it sometimes.
We can all agree at least DmC wasnt something akin to Dino Crisis 3
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Reboot the entire franchise, and i include the movies with this.
Make them together so they work seamlessly together.. it is not hard.
And make the movies yourselves, DON'T let "them" touch it.
Make them together so they work seamlessly together.. it is not hard.
And make the movies yourselves, DON'T let "them" touch it.
akilshohen
Member
They just really need to take out the scripted stuff. The first run through being an hour is ok, I guess, but when you upgrade its easy to see how certain enemies have been overpowered at certain parts of the game.
Riposte
Member
Since they are currently innovators in that area, they should look advance the form of co-op into something more freer. I think that would be the coexistence of two or more campaigns happening in one place (either a string of segments or something more like the mansion or police station) simultaneously. I think that takes the "menu option" out of focus and puts it more organically into the game. You have solo and co-op play depending entirely on how players interact. Though I'm perfectly fine with co-op as it is now, that would go farther in expanding the appeal of co-op to those who don't want it. People secretly like co-op games, you just have to disguise it (see Dark Souls, Journey).
Would I be presuming to much to say you haven't seen any the Resident Evil films Capcom have made themselves?
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
The game lacked direction and felt nothing like Resident Evil, that's the problem.
I hope Capcom take a step backs and take a good look at the whole picture because they are completely lost when it comes to this series.
I think we are headed for a reboot.
I hope Capcom take a step backs and take a good look at the whole picture because they are completely lost when it comes to this series.
I think we are headed for a reboot.
It could. But it would benefit from being a sole playable and optional co-op. Especially for people who aren't a fan of that.
I think that's the least of RE's problems right now though. A reboot isn't needed setting/story-wise, but definitely in how they approach the game mechanically and in development (not giving it to NT or something).
Davey Cakes
Member
The absolute best advice possible, at this point.
I'm thinking Revelations without the non-ship parts.
Also, less budget and less people working on it. Just keep a core, focused team. RE6 shows that you can't just throw money and people at it and have it be top-tier AAA quality. Games need proper direction, with the resources put in the right places. It almost seems obvious.
RE6 sold well enough even considering it's failings, but so did Operation Raccoon City. Anything with the Resident Evil name slapped on will sell, but if the quality drops then people might start jumping ship. It won't be instantaneous but it's a good guarantee to kill the property over time.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
yeah, while shit they reflected the current games (shit) and were better than andersons.
You might be right, but I hate co-op in RE games.
Agreed. That budget could also easily be put to other resources.
Knowing them, they will completely outsource it now.
At first I was thinking outsourcing wouldn't be a horrible idea, but then I think about RE: Operation Raccoon City. *shudders*
I think it should be possible to keep two protagonists, with different attributes (more health vs. bigger inventory) and that way there are two characters to play while playing co-op. If the player is not playing co-op, you choose one of the two characters and play alone.
Also, while I agree that a game can have horror elements while being co-op, I don't think these elements can ever have the same impact on the player when they are playing in co-op. It's one thing to be absorbed into a game while you're sitting in a dark room with only you and your character, and it's entirely different having someone else there (either in person or over the net) that would be talking and otherwise providing some form of relief from the elements that should be inducing fear.
I don't think it would be just the sales of DmC that could potentially hinder a future main DMC but just this whole situation with DmC leaves a sour taste in fans of OG DMC and probably DmC fans. Doesn't help that Capcom's and NT's PR effectively made some parts of the gaming community think somewhat negatively of older DMCs in order to make DmC look like some sort of savior of the franchise.
And until a year ago I never knew a Dino Crisis 3 existed, and this isn't some "there is no Tsukihime anime" type thing where I'm trying to forget about it either. From the sounds of it....I probably should.
That sounds like that would be pretty awesome to implement even though it seems mighty similar to the Souls games but I'm curious on how one would be able to balance a RE game around something like that.
I think not tossing 600 people at one game and trying to do appeal to everyone would go a long way in possibly making an awesome RE7. They need to decide on a direction they want for the future of RE and kind of stick with it.
The fear shouldn't be negated by the presence of another person. I mean, watching a horror movie with someone wouldn't make the movie less scary would it not? Scenario design, pacing, and how the co-op is set up would go a long way of making a survival horror game scary while playing with someone else. I think it should be even more scary when you and that other person have to rely on each other to survive some pretty messed up scenarios.
Interrobang
Member
I know we're deeming it shit and patting ourselves on the back for not contributing, but this pile of shit sold 5 million copies. Yes that's a failure in their eyes, but to what extent? Does that mean make the same thing but with a smaller team/budget? He says right there that 5 million copies is proof that the series is still interesting. Does't sound like we voted with our wallets on this one enough to prove this game wasn't what we wanted.
Projectjustice
Banned
I think the problem is that its no longer survival horror game. Its a dudebro game like Gears these days.
Cave Johnson
Member
At this point I can see the series go downhill at this point. Assuming the 5+ million were shipments expected to have the same reception as it's predecessor backfired. Now it sounds like some sore loser trying to save face. If anything, it goes to show how deep RE4 has punched through the gaming culture, that, even in it's diluted form could garner faithful reception. So the entire credit goes to what made RE4 worked, and it's subsequent sequels are only siphoning off the formula to the point where it got extremely stale. This is why the game is convoluted with so many design choices, it's like they have NO IDEA what to run with it. A single walkthrough of RE4 in the GC era has DECIMATED a 600 man squad in an HD era in both design and quality. Unfrickenbelievable.
But it seems the people are getting the message, CAPCOM has one too many controversy's surrounding it. I fully doubt at this point they can make the brand stronger than ever. SM had a vision regarding the series which is why he was ballsy enough to change the formula for the better and with great success. Now all is left is them assembling what "works" in the industry (action, setpieces, xp, incessant grinding, co-op). It's no surprise concepts like "open-world" or "reboot" is the only thing that is salvaged by these talentless hacks. No vision, just do what the rest of the AAA market is leaning towards instead. Predictable.
But it seems the people are getting the message, CAPCOM has one too many controversy's surrounding it. I fully doubt at this point they can make the brand stronger than ever. SM had a vision regarding the series which is why he was ballsy enough to change the formula for the better and with great success. Now all is left is them assembling what "works" in the industry (action, setpieces, xp, incessant grinding, co-op). It's no surprise concepts like "open-world" or "reboot" is the only thing that is salvaged by these talentless hacks. No vision, just do what the rest of the AAA market is leaning towards instead. Predictable.
When watching a movie, my friends and I aren't talking, we're all basically sitting there enjoying the movie. If they were to talk, it would surely ruin the horror elements of the movie. With a game, you don't have a choice but to communicate.
Granted I have been freaked out a bit playing Dead Island with friends, but these moments were always when I got split from the group, not while they were around.
They did something I never expected: they took the standard RE experience and then built FPS maps for it. You were forced to use QTE to do things like small jumps and then they made maps with a bunch of small jumps all over the place. That made for the worst experience I had last year for gaming. Just a terrible collision of ideas.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Smh, this shitpile 'aaa' industry needs to just burn to ashes.