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[Einchy]

Was this intended originally by Whedon? Probably not. But boy does it fit nicely regardless.

That's my whole point, though, it wasn't intended. Cap is the way he is because of different visions for what the character is. You can try and piece together some reasoning for why they're different and you could even find a pretty good in-universe explication.

At the end of the day, though, those reasons are to do with conflicting views on the character by forces outside of the story. Even in AoU Cap didn't do half the crazy shit he was able to do in WS because Whedon was directing him. In CW he's able to do what he did in WS because the Russos are directing again.

 

[BLACKLAC]

That's my whole point, though, it wasn't intended. Cap is the way he is because of different visions for what the character is. You can try and piece together some reasoning for why they're different and you could even find a pretty good in-universe explication.

At the end of the day, though, those reasons are to do with conflicting views on the character by forces outside of the story. Even in AoU Cap didn't do half the crazy shit he was able to do in WS because Whedon was directing him. In CW he's able to do what he did in WS because the Russos are directing again.

If your main point is Russo Cap >>>> Whedon Cap I already agreed. At that point it's just different directors focusing on different things. But that's boring discussion imo.... :/

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I liked Cap's character in Avengers. Unwittingly or not, Whedon also did some nice buildup for Civil War.

Tony/Steve conflict + Tony's angry "We are NOT soldiers."

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

How far ahead do they plan these things, like Civil War? Subtle priming and all that.

 

[Blade30]

How far ahead do they plan these things, like Civil War? Subtle priming and all that.

According to the interviews Cap 3 wasn't supposed to be Civil War, but a direct continuation after Winter Soldier searching for Bucky etc.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Nah I think he just supressing fires at some goons...

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

How far ahead do they plan these things, like Civil War? Subtle priming and all that.

I feel a lot of it is accidental, or just "works" (even without Civil War it makes sense for Tony and Steve to butt heads), but they have the universe planned pretty far in advance, so I guess they've been considering it for a while.

Rewatching TFA (You know what I mean) and the Bucky buildup is definitely there though. The trilogy is all about their friendship.

Just makes me imagine Tony as Archer.

"Natasha TRUST ME you do not want me fighting Ultron hungover"

 

[beyond_death]

Cap in the Avengers 1 was just terrible, gun or otherwise. Whedon really misfired there.

Definitely. Along with the fact that his costume looked goofy as fuck, as a huge Cap fan it pains me to say Avengers Cap was almost embarrassing. Having him struggle in a gun fight against nameless henchmen was a shitty decision. I know they wanted to have it seem like everything was going to shit in that sequence but surely they could have found a better way that didnt make Cap look like a loser. Whedon definitely improved in AoU luckily. I'm looking forward to seeing what the Russo's have done again to make Cap look badass again come Thursday morning.

 

[histopher]

While I'm pumped for BP and Spidey it worries me that Cap himself isnt getting much praise in Civil War...

 

[jmood88]

While I'm pumped for BP and Spidey it worries me that Cap himself isnt getting much praise in Civil War...

I don't know which reviews you've been reading, then.

 

[Betty]

While I'm pumped for BP and Spidey it worries me that Cap himself isnt getting much praise in Civil War...

I've heard praise for both Evans and Downey's performances but it's only natural that the newcomers get talked up more.

 

[Diprosalic]

While I'm pumped for BP and Spidey it worries me that Cap himself isnt getting much praise in Civil War...

what? i've heard nothing but praise for Cap but obviously it's more interesting to talk about Spidey and BP.
We've seen Cap for 4 times before.

 

[Blade30]

While I'm pumped for BP and Spidey it worries me that Cap himself isnt getting much praise in Civil War...

They are getting the praise and focus because they are new to the MCU and that their characters were really well done unlike Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in AoU.

 

[BronsonLee]

He doesn't get much praise in this movie because Captain America is a skinny loser from Brooklyn

 

[Ithil]

They are getting the praise and focus because they are new to the MCU and that their characters were really well done unlike Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in AoU.

Witch was done fine in AoU, though I wonder how much of that is down to the actress being charming and the character getting a good design (both in civilian and Avengers costumes). Certainly she could have been more focused on in the mid portion of the film, her arc seems to be missing some beats.

Quicksilver didn't leave much of an impression. He had less to do than she did, and the actor is much blander than Olsen.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

AoU Quicksilver > DofP Quicksilver

 

[Alienous]

When Whedon's Cap uses his shield it looks goofy. When he blocks he looks wimpy, when he uses it to knock guys out he tends to take out three dudes who are standing side-by-side with a ridiculous ricochet.

Russo Cap uses his shield while charging at people. He throws his shield precisely to get a headshot and a rebound. When he fights he looks like he knows what he's trained to do so.

 

[Garlador]

AoU Quicksilver > DofP Quicksilver

I didn't see that coming.

Spoiler

I agree.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I didn't see that coming.

Spoiler

I agree.

People prefer DofP Peter only because his scene was cool.
AoU nailed the character much more.

 

[hamchan]

BRRRRRRRRAAAAAAP

This must be the saddest Cap. Dude couldn't even handle some random goons.

 

[NotLiquid]

AoU Quicksilver > DofP Quicksilver

I agree.

Not that AoU Quicksilver is a great character but he's less OP and more of an actual character rather than plot device.

 

[Renekton]

People prefer DofP Peter only because his scene was cool.
AoU nailed the character much more.

I agree.

Not that AoU Quicksilver is a great character but he's less OP and more of an actual character rather than plot device.

DoFP Quicksilver was so timestoppingly fast he became a massive plot hole.

Let's see if he gets nerfed in Apocalypse.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

AOU Quicksilver was so bland. DOFP's version wasn't particularly brilliant either but at least he had one really memorable scene.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

They shouldn't have deleted this scene from Avengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=Pov4qMSfg9w

 

[Alienous]

They shouldn't have deleted this scene from Avengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=Pov4qMSfg9w

That scene is slower than DOFP's Quicksilver character moment.

I'm surprised it doesn't end with 'Cap was here' carved into a wall.

 

[Replicant]

IIRC, Evans didn't learn Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and Parkour until he had to prepare for Winter Soldier. That may explains why he looks more convincing in WS. He did learn Boxing and Karate prior to WS though. In fact, he joked back around Avengers' press tours about how everyone else has cool ability while he had to "Okay, I'll catch up with you guys in sec after I climb down the ladder".

EDIT: Yeah, I was right. They decided to evolve Cap's fighting ability around WS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEDq548hCi0

 

[Spinluck]

Shooting a gun isn't high tech fighting skills and other people brought up him just being generally useful in Whedon's film.

And what I'm saying is that you're looking to form some headcanon where there doesn't need to be any. Cap is as strong as he is in Whedon's version because that's what he wanted and not because Cap wasn't "acclimated" to our world. Russo's version of Cap is much stronger because that felt it served the story better and not because he's now acclimated.

I don't have any issues with these 2 versions of him, by the way. Different people will have different takes on the character and that's cool. I just think it's rather silly to try and justify in universe reasons for things that are clearly there because of real world people.

All I know is he was a lot more bad ass in AoU.

Not quite as cool as WS, but he was taking on Ultron 1v1.

 

[cackhyena]

I watched Winter Soldier again last night. I'll be surprised if they top the amazing one on one fights in that. Just so damn good. Still my favy superhero movie.

 

[fallengorn]

They shouldn't have deleted this scene from Avengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=Pov4qMSfg9w

It's so weird seeing Cap take the D train.

 

[Sblargh]

Captain America is the heart of the Avengers, what Whedon didn't gave him in terms of aim, he gave him in soul and God damn it, GAF.
That's what truly matters.

 

[jackal27]

I watched Winter Soldier again last night. I'll be surprised if they top the amazing one on one fights in that. Just so damn good. Still my favy superhero movie.

Rewatching it, I never really got what people were talking about when they mentioned Cap's upgrade, but then that 1v1 with the airplane hahaha! What a great flick.

 

[cackhyena]

Rewatching it, I never really got what people were talking about when they mentioned Cap's upgrade, but then that 1v1 with the airplane hahaha! What a great flick.

The plane never stood a chance.

 

[Replicant]

Captain America is the heart of the Avengers, what Whedon didn't gave him in terms of aim, he gave him in soul and God damn it, GAF.
That's what truly matters.

I actually think Marvel did a great job in developing him. Yeah, Cap is a lot cooler and more self-assured by the time it's WS but you can also sense that he becomes a bit colder and slightly sarcastic in comparison to the sweet guy we saw in First Avenger. The events that have happened to him transpired him somewhat. He's still a good guy but you can tell that he's weary and no longer trust others so easily.

 

[cackhyena]

I wouldn't trust shit after the events of WS, either.

 

[jmood88]

They shouldn't have deleted this scene from Avengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=Pov4qMSfg9w

What would this have added to the movie?

 

[Sblargh]

I actually think Marvel did a great job in developing him. Yeah, Cap is a lot cooler and more self-assured by the time it's WS but you can also sense that he becomes a bit colder and slightly sarcastic in comparison to the sweet guy we saw in First Avenger. The events that have happened to him transpired him somewhat. He's still a good guy but you can tell that he's weary and no longer trust others so easily.

His character arc is really inreresting, on the force awakens he is a straight up soldier, though he knows how to disobey orders at the exact time. On the avengers, he sees himself as a soldier, but he can't bring himself to trust shield.
On WS, he is still trying to play the part, but of course, his whole world crumbles around him.
Only on Age of Ultron he finally is able to understand, with the help of Scarlet Witch's character progressing powers, that he has to stop thinking of himself as just a kid from Brooklyn doing his best to serve his country. I don't know how he sees himself on Civil War (because the world is a horrible place and I have not yet seen the movie), but he clearly developed a distrust of institutions. And I feel like he increasingly believes his job is to lead more than follow.

 

[Spinluck]

They shouldn't have deleted this scene from Avengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=Pov4qMSfg9w

The beginning of that scene is so tonally different from the rest of the film.

 

[richiek]

Definitely. Along with the fact that his costume looked goofy as fuck, as a huge Cap fan it pains me to say Avengers Cap was almost embarrassing. Having him struggle in a gun fight against nameless henchmen was a shitty decision. I know they wanted to have it seem like everything was going to shit in that sequence but surely they could have found a better way that didnt make Cap look like a loser. Whedon definitely improved in AoU luckily. I'm looking forward to seeing what the Russo's have done again to make Cap look badass again come Thursday morning.

I agree that Cap struggling in a firefight in Avengers was pretty silly considering 1.Cap has experience using firearms as a soldier during WWII. 2.The super soldier serum gives Cap superhuman abilities. It stands to reason that his improved reflexes and hand eye coordination would give him a clear edge over some faceless mooks in a firefight.

 

[cackhyena]

His character arc is really inreresting, on the force awakens

 

[The Hermit]

The confusion is now complete. TFA= Cap1

 

[Gordon Shumway]

What would this have added to the movie?

More Ellie..?

 

[icespide]

Star Wars: The First Avenger

 

[Replicant]

Re-watching WS atm. The film looks so much better on Blu-ray. I seem to see more details that I didn't notice back at the cinema.

That S.T.R.I.K.E costume looks so good. Totally wipes away the bad memory of Coulson's fanmade costume. Glad I have the Hot Toys version of it.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Star Wars: The First Avenger

Damn it! lol

 

[-griffy-]

Rogue One: A Captain America Story is the real question mark here.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

These movies are so great. Reading people's thoughts on them here, I'm really happy they exist.

 

[xam3l]

Rewatching it, I never really got what people were talking about when they mentioned Cap's upgrade, but then that 1v1 with the airplane hahaha! What a great flick.

Best. Scene. Ever.

 

[quesalupa]

What's the consensus on the visuals? Should I blow money on 70mm Imax?

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Are all the critics waiting until release, or not that many critics have seen it period?

 

[Random17]

These movies are so great. Reading people's thoughts on them here, I'm really happy they exist.

Yup. We're living in a golden age for Marvel movies.