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[Mudcrab]

Also, unless I'm mistaken, keep in mind that Cap's shield will pass though both of MCs shields with ease as it absorbs virtually all forms of energy.

 

[DopeyFish]

Remember, Rogers works for the Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D. I'm not sure what kind of sidearm he prefers, but when Bucky Barnes took over as Captain America, he used:



http://marvel.wikia.com/James_Buchanan_Barnes_%28Earth-616%29

Modified explicitly to take out hard targets. AIM (advanced idea mechanics) is essentially an evil super scientist terrorist organization with crazy technology. Whatever bullets that gun fires, it's probably not going to be bouncing off of standard armor.

You're implying MJOLNIR is standard armor?

You need 3 things to fail (or 2 if going for a headshot)

The energy shield, the outer armor itself (which can take many armor piercing rounds before giving away) and the undersuit armor

 

[Kimosabae]

Just give Chief his Assault Rifle and Pistol. Standard UNSC loadout for normal fighting.

Although I'm not clear on why this matters if cap can supposedly dodge all bullets or something. I guarantee you there's 500 comics where he takes hits or gets caught by surprise or a regular Joe lands a punch on him, but whatever. Cap can have a sidearm sure, but a .45 pistol isn't going to be very effective in this fight. I'm not even sure if two or three full magazines of it would be enough to drop his shields. I'm not sure if they could even penetrate his armor, unshielded. The "pistol" in Halo is some ludicrous .50 magnum slug or something and the standard AR actually fires full power rifle rounds (if the people who made Halo weren't dumb-dumbs they would realize that it's not an AR at all, it's a Battle Rifle... but then they already have another thing they call The Battle Rifle), but takes like 12-15 hits to drop shields.

This detail seems to be an obscure one but a goodie for myriad reasons:


The M6D's rounds are also high-explosive.

Was a handy nugget in pistol debates back in the day.

 

[Manmademan]

You're implying MJOLNIR is standard armor?

I'm implying the gun isn't a standard handgun. It's made to go *right through* standard armor, and will pierce whatever AIM uses. AIM/Hydra was what COBRA was based on for the old GI Joe tv show, so that should give you an idea of what they are.

I doubt mjolnir is that weak, but expecting to wade right through those shots is probably a bad idea.

The energy shield, the outer armor itself (which can take many armor piercing rounds before giving away) and the undersuit armor

Cap has two shields that null out or absorb energy, both can be used offensively. The shield isn't much of a game changer here. It will get damaged one way or another.

Alright then let's assume said serum developed in 1940 MU is equivalent to Spartan conditioning/augmentation in 2517 in the Haloverse. and let's assume MC's current expertise to tactics/strategy is equivalent to Cap's or pretty damn close (taking into account of feats).

Not sure how I missed this one. The serum is by all accounts superior to spartan conditioning. Cap's body produces no fatigue poisons and does not tire. His metabolism is so fast getting drunk (at least on alcohol) is impossible, it's immediately processed out. Cap either does not age or does so very slowly- he's functionally immortal as far as marvel is concerned at this point. He possesses strength somewhere between 1 and 10 tons, and his body is so durable that jumping out of an airplane sans parachute will crack the concrete, but not his bones. He's been spotted moving at 60mph while carrying others, leaping two stories straight up, and literally "sees faster" than humans are able to, which allows him to dodge bullets with ease (as spiderman and gambit do, both of whom he has fought H2H with favorable results.)

That's not bad for 1940, and CLEARLY better than spartan conditioning. As for expertise, Cap has mastered every form of combat that exists on his planet BEFORE getting frozen in the 1940s, and LEADS global and intergalactic armies. MC takes a massive L in the tactics/strategy category.

Theorycraft time. MC's mind is melded artificially with an AI at all times. By the very definition of technological computation, a human cannot hope to compete with an AI superhuman or not. If there's an MU source proving this wrong then I'll concede this point.

Rogers is a strategic, tactical, and combat genius. The Kree supreme intelligence faced the builders, it determined resistance was futile and capitulated.

Rogers not only defeated the builders in battle consistently, but won the war outright. Kree Supreme Intelligence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cortana. It also might be worth mentioning that Rogers has led the Avengers to victory over the supreme intelligence more than once, and more frequently than some technically more advanced spacefaring civilizations, such as the spartax.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Well the problem is that since they don't exist in the same universe, we are required to make assumptions about their interactions. People discussed before about how silly it was to say "Chief is from 26th century, so of course he has better tech". I'm perfectly willing to assume that his sidearm can penetrate MC's armor, although we're also going to have to assume stuff like how many hits it will take to drop shields and so on.

People were saying that cap can survive large explosions unharmed and is bulletproof without his shield. Are we taking these feats as "normal" for cap?

 

[TheKaeptain]

Well the problem is that since they don't exist in the same universe, we are required to make assumptions about their interactions. People discussed before about how silly it was to say "Chief is from 26th century, so of course he has better tech". I'm perfectly willing to assume that his sidearm can penetrate MC's armor, although we're also going to have to assume stuff like how many hits it will take to drop shields and so on.

People were saying that cap can survive large explosions unharmed and is bulletproof without his shield. Are we taking these feats as "normal" for cap?

Yeah Cap can take some punishment. He had a open chest wound and lived with it for a few days before taking on Arnim Zola's entire army and invading his fortress.

 

[Manmademan]

Well the problem is that since they don't exist in the same universe, we are required to make assumptions about their interactions. People discussed before about how silly it was to say "Chief is from 26th century, so of course he has better tech". I'm perfectly willing to assume that his sidearm can penetrate MC's armor, although we're also going to have to assume stuff like how many hits it will take to drop shields and so on.

People were saying that cap can survive large explosions unharmed and is bulletproof without his shield. Are we taking these feats as "normal" for cap?

he can take large explosions and bullets TO A POINT. He has enhanced durability, but he's not invulnerable. (see again the whole jumping out of planes bit).

That costume of his is also not spandex. it's an advanced kevlar/armor mesh developed by shield, and is projectile resistant, again to an extent. from wiki, since I lack a more easily accessible source:

Captain America's uniform is made of a fire-retardant material, and he wears a lightweight, bulletproof "duralumin" scale armor beneath his uniform for added protection.[59] Originally, Rogers' mask was a separate piece of material, but an early engagement had it dislodged, thus almost exposing his identity. To prevent a recurrence of the situation, Rogers modified the mask with connecting material to his uniform, an added benefit of which was extending his armor to cover his previously exposed neck. As a member of the Avengers, Rogers has an Avengers priority card, which serves as a communications device.

flame retardant, bulletproof, some degree of protection from explosive impact. Cap's standard tactic towards bullets and grenades is to just get out of the way though, rather than soak up the hits to see if he can take it.

Iron man scans Cap- "no damage, you have some good armor."

bonus: it's vampire proof- and yes, that's a legit vampire, turned by Dracula.

 

[Kimosabae]

Quick question.


How do discussions like these not degenerate into "X character can do whatever writers want/need X character to do."?

 

[Manmademan]

Quick question.


How do discussions like these not degenerate into "X character can do whatever writers want/need X character to do."?

The mainstream marvel and DC universes are an interconnected universe. Most feats for characters stay within a certain range for consistency. You may see Cap dodging bullets or outrunning a motorcycle in a sprint, but you won't see him throwing tanks or breaking the sound barrier on foot.

By and large, comic characters do not "do whatever the writers want." This is why editors exist. That's not to say mistakes never happen, but they're generally easy to spot and disregarded if they're wildly out of character with what a character has been previously established to be able to do.

 

[Slayven]

Real talk is Cap took his Galactic Storm squad up against the Covenant? Prophets surrendering in a week.

 

[Manmademan]

Real talk is Cap took his Galactic Storm squad up against the Covenant? Prophets surrendering in a week.

Ah, galactic storm. That's the one where the Avengers beat the Kree and killed the supreme intelligence, but I couldn't remember the name of it.

So make that THREE intergalactic conflicts.

Also: there's a half dozen dudes in that lineup that could completely solo everything in Halo 1-4 without breaking a sweat, come on now- it's barely fair. You gotta take Hawkeye out or it'll be a curbstomp.

edit: Star Fox could take out master chief just by asking him if he wants to take off that armor and get naked, then breaking his neck.

 

[Kimosabae]

The mainstream marvel and DC universes are an interconnected universe. Most feats for characters stay within a certain range for consistency. You may see Cap dodging bullets or outrunning a motorcycle in a sprint, but you won't see him throwing tanks or breaking the sound barrier on foot.

Yeah, on foot would be out of character, so writers would/could contrive some form of gadget, physical gymnastics, or serum that essentially amounts to the same thing when needed. If Captain America needs to break the sound barrier for some reason; he'll break the sound barrier. Kinda like that backup Photon Shield someone posted about a few pages back.

And then he fights Masterchief bare-knuckle and wins.

*shrug*

 

[Trey]

Science fiction usually loses to comic logic in terms of ridiculous power levels and feats, which is impressive in this case because Halo has one of the more "lol because" scifi universes out there.

But Chief matches baseline Captain America in every way, and also has armor and superior intelligence.

 

[Slayven]

Ah, galactic storm. That's the one where the Avengers beat the Kree and killed the supreme intelligence, but I couldn't remember the name of it.

So make that THREE intergalactic conflicts.

Also: there's a half dozen dudes in that lineup that could completely solo everything in Halo 1-4 without breaking a sweat, come on now- it's barely fair. You gotta take Hawkeye out or it'll be a curbstomp.

edit: Star Fox could take out master chief just by asking him if he wants to take off that armor and get naked, then breaking his neck.

People always forget Galactic Storm, like people always forget about Invasion in DC. Despite both having major consequences that you can still see in today's comics.

 

[Parallax]

People always forget Galactic Storm, like people always forget about Invasion in DC. Despite both having major consequences that you can still see in today's comics.

its not some "swept under the rug event because everyone caught an L" like bloodlines

 

[Manmademan]

Yeah, on foot would be out of character, so writers would/could contrive some form of gadget, physical gymnastics, or serum that essentially amounts to the same thing when needed. Kinda like that backup Photon Shield someone posted about a few pages back.

I posted the photon shield lol. It's rarely used (cap prefers the physical one, plus it's iconic- marvel was never going to keep it gone for long) but has the advantage of being integrated within his gloves, so it's always kind of there.

Heroes reborn was a long time ago- cap has had that thing for almost a couple of decades now, I think.

And then he fights Masterchief bare-knuckle and wins.

*shrug*

He's fought worse.

 

[Manmademan]

People always forget Galactic Storm, like people always forget about Invasion in DC. Despite both having major consequences that you can still see in today's comics.

It was forgotten about because it came during that period when the Avengers REALLY sucked, everyone was reading X-men, and Marvel couldn't GIVE away the rights to Cap, Thor, or Iron Man. And they managed to sell Punisher!

It was like "avengers? they still make that?"

 

[Slayven]

its not some "swept under the rug event because everyone caught an L" like bloodlines

You and your Bloodlines hate.

It was forgotten about because it came during that period when the Avengers REALLY sucked, everyone was reading X-men, and Marvel couldn't GIVE away the rights to Cap, Thor, or Iron Man. And they managed to sell Punisher!

It was like "avengers? they still make that?"

But Wonder Man died.

 

[Manmademan]

You and your Bloodlines hate.



But Wonder Man died.

How many times does that make now? He's the Jean Grey of the Avengers lineup.

 

[Devolution]

Just lead MC to water. He always drowns.

 

[Slayven]

How many times does that make now? He's the Jean Grey of the Avengers lineup.

But that time he came back he wasn't just Thor's backup, he had real powers.

 

[Parallax]

You and your Bloodlines hate.

i bought that whole damn set. that shit still burns. its the largest L ive ever takem

But Wonder Man died.

yep

How many times does that make now? He's the Jean Grey of the Avengers lineup.

except people dont bitch when simon goes away for a while

Just lead MC to water. He always drowns.

so dude cant swim legitimately, or is that due to the weight of the suit?

 

[Slayven]

i bought that whole damn set. that shit still burns. its the largest L ive ever takem



yep



except people dont bitch when simon goes away for a while

But the Blood Pact and The Ravers though.

No one notices when he dies.

 

[Parallax]

But the Blood Pact and The Ravers though.

No one notices when he dies.

hitman was the only good thing to come out of that shit.

and beast notices. as well as the 5 remaining west coast avengers fans

 

[J10]

so dude cant swim legitimately, or is that due to the weight of the suit?

Of course he can swim. Just not in a half ton of armor. It's not built for that. He could walk on the sea floor til he gets to shore I guess.

 

[Manmademan]

hitman was the only good thing to come out of that shit.

and beast notices. as well as the 5 remaining west coast avengers fans

That concept always amused me. "The avengers just can't be in enough places to stop all these global conflicts!"

"Put some in L.A. then."

"what about...the rest of the world?"

"I said LA! what else is there?"

Of course he can swim. Just not in a half ton of armor.

Hell of a design flaw there. Looks like Cap has the superior suit of armor.

Powered by Patriotism. Won't run out of energy as long as you Never Forget 9/11

 

[User 73706]

so dude cant swim legitimately, or is that due to the weight of the suit?

Weight of the suit, but it holds about 90 minutes of air at any given time. Dude jumps around punching Covenant in the face in vacuum all the time.

Chief should just tell Cap that Ronald Reagan's son is drowning in the community pool and then donkey punch him until Cap runs out of oxygen.

 

[Manmademan]

Weight of the suit, but it holds about 90 minutes of air at any given time. Dude jumps around punching Covenant in the face in vacuum all the time.

Chief should just tell Cap that Ronald Reagan's son is drowning in the community pool and then donkey punch him until Cap runs out of oxygen.

current cap appeared circa 2000 or so and missed the reagan administration. You might get him on the Bush girls though- Cap can be quite the poon hound

 

[Slayven]

current cap appeared circa 2000 or so and missed the reagan administration. You might get him on the Bush girls though- Cap can be quite the poon hound

But never gave Sersi the time of day.

 

[Devolution]

so dude cant swim legitimately, or is that due to the weight of the suit?

Weight of the suit but it was more of a joke about gameplay and water deaths.

 

[Manmademan]

But never gave Sersi the time of day.

would you? that one had crazy eyes. Was immortal too, good luck getting rid of her when things go bad.

 

[Spinluck]

lol, i love these threads.

i always find out shit i never knew about some of these characters.

i hope there's more of these in the future as long as they're characters people care about. lol

 

[User 73706]

Is the proposed "arena" they're locked in fully modeled? How well did the dev team craft it? Are there immediate kill-barriers outside?

Chief can just get killed by him a bunch with the Black Eye skull on, melee the grenades into a tightly-wound pocket and then blow himself out of the confines of the geometry. Chief can then proceed to go on vacation while Cap starves to death.

 

[Manmademan]

lol, i love these threads.

i always find out shit i never knew about some of these characters.

i hope there's more of these in the future as long as they're characters people care about. lol

You keep making these threads, i'll keep posting in em. It's hilarious this has gone 532 replies without anyone making a conclusive argument for master chief. I honestly thought this would have been over by now, but Cap is ever-resourceful lol

 

[Slayven]

would you? that one had crazy eyes. Was immortal too, good luck getting rid of her when things go bad.

I doubt it, she been on the bad end of that.

 

[Serrato]

I've read all the thread and a question got in my mind. Cap Shield, that thing always boggle my mind. Does it reflect or absorb? In the movies it seems to reflect energy (see Thor hammer strike and the wind it makes or IronMan beams reflected) but in the comics it seems it depends on what the author wants the shield to do. I'm not even gonna talk how illogical it all is even is such a material was possible.

How was it even made if the material reflect/absorb all energy? They fond it in form of a shield?

Each times I see Cap throwing the thing, somehow now it doesn't reflect/absorb energy, otherwise it would NOT bounce/return/whatever he can do with it.

Otherwise, for MC vs Cap, Cap would win anyday. MC does not even close, Cap as fought stronger, better, faster and more numerous enemies at the same time and prevailed.

 

[Manmademan]

I've read all the thread and a question got in my mind. Cap Shield, that thing always boggle my mind. Does it reflect or absorb? In the movies it seems to reflect energy (see Thor hammer strike and the wind it makes or IronMan beams reflected) but in the comics it seems it depends on what the author wants the shield to do. I'm not even gonna talk how illogical it all is even is such a material was possible.

How was it even made if the material reflect/absorb all energy? They fond it in form of a shield?

Each times I see Cap throwing the thing, somehow now it doesn't reflect/absorb energy, otherwise it would NOT bounce/return/whatever he can do with it.

Otherwise, for MC vs Cap, Cap would win anyday. MC does not even close, Cap as fought stronger, better, faster and more numerous enemies at the same time and prevailed.

Welcome to the wonderful world of comic book physics.

Cap's shield is made of several fictional, unknown materials, one of which is flat out magic at this point. It's useless to ask "how" it works and just accept that it does.

Energy directed AT the shield is just nulled out, not reflected. Otherwise Rogers' arm would snap off the second someone stronger than him punched the shield. Every now and then someone in the art department screws up and forgets this, but that's the canon explanation.

If cap THROWS it though, it will either go straight through an object, or ricochet off of it, depending on what cap wants it to do. There's no logic here, and likely never will be.

 

[danwarb]

Is the proposed "arena" they're locked in fully modeled? How well did the dev team craft it? Are there immediate kill-barriers outside?

Chief can just get killed by him a bunch with the Black Eye skull on, melee the grenades into a tightly-wound pocket and then blow himself out of the confines of the geometry. Chief can then proceed to go on vacation while Cap starves to death.

In part 2, Master Chief re-spawns behind Cap, delivers a melee to the back of the head, teabags delight.

 

[Kimosabae]

Welcome to the wonderful world of comic book physics.

Cap's shield is made of several fictional, unknown materials, one of which is flat out magic at this point. It's useless to ask "how" it works and just accept that it does.

heh heh

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

You keep making these threads, i'll keep posting in em. It's hilarious this has gone 532 replies without anyone making a conclusive argument for master chief. I honestly thought this would have been over by now, but Cap is ever-resourceful lol

Pages have been dedicated to intangible factors like experience and skill. Both are evidently expert marksmen with decades of battle experience. But it's not like if you can prove one has been in more fights than the other he automatically wins.

 

[Serrato]

Welcome to the wonderful world of comic book physics.

Hahahah Indeed. I just wondered if they ever explained or something.

 

[Devolution]

You keep making these threads, i'll keep posting in em. It's hilarious this has gone 532 replies without anyone making a conclusive argument for master chief. I honestly thought this would have been over by now, but Cap is ever-resourceful lol

Hard to do when Marvel just writes all their characters to be OP as fuck in some plotline.

 

[akira28]

Cpl. Guam vs Mister Chief

 

[Beth Cyra]

Weight of the suit, but it holds about 90 minutes of air at any given time. Dude jumps around punching Covenant in the face in vacuum all the time.

Chief should just tell Cap that Ronald Reagan's son is drowning in the community pool and then donkey punch him until Cap runs out of oxygen.

Wait, how the hell did you quote me with someone else's post?

 

[Parallax]

Hard to do when Marvel just writes all their characters to be OP as fuck in some plotline.

havent people tried to portray MC as some mechanical godkiller tho? theyre both op as fuck

 

[Manmademan]

Hard to do when Marvel just writes all their characters to be OP as fuck in some plotline.

Never thought I'd see "Captain America" referred to as "OP as fuck". What, you want Daredevil to fight master chief? Beating up a blind guy is the only way he gets a win?

 

[Devolution]

havent people tried to portray MC as some mechanical godkiller tho? theyre both op as fuck

Well he is, kind of, he took on gravemind and old world god figures. Still though Marvel takes the most basic dude (basic for a hero i mean) and gives them crazy ass powers at some point out of like sheer boredom or lack of ideas so...

 

[Manmademan]

Well he is, kind of, he took on gravemind and old world god figures. Still though Marvel takes the most basic dude (basic for a hero i mean) and gives them crazy ass powers at some point out of like sheer boredom or lack of ideas so...

are we still talking about captain america? Crazy powers?

Pages have been dedicated to intangible factors like experience and skill. Both are evidently expert marksmen with decades of battle experience. But it's not like if you can prove one has been in more fights than the other he automatically wins.

True. I could see situations where either/or gets a win, but nothing conclusive. It's not like someone put up Big Boss vs. Cap. That one would be over immediately.

 

[User 73706]

are we still talking about captain america? Crazy powers?

Captain America is described as being "only" human yet he's got unaided physical prowess equaling or surpassing that of a fully-armored supersoldier made 600 years in the future.

 

[Parallax]

Captain America is described as being "only" human yet he's got unaided physical prowess equaling or surpassing that of a fully-armored supersoldier made 600 years in the future.

you should stop using time as a point. it literally means nothing in this argument