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[ToxicAdam]

These are just the same conversations I have been having on videogame forums for 7 years now (about the time console/handheld gaming really took off).

PC gaming has bounced between 1-2 billion dollars in sales for at least 10 years now. 1999 was the high peak .. and 2003 was low point. It has slowly been building it's way back to that 1999 peak. It's just done it in a different way. Through subscription-games, casual games that cost 20 dollars and a few AAA titles sprinkled throughout the year.

Even if all the major devs (EA, Activision, Ubi) abandoned the platform .. it still would be a great platform to play games on. I'm not sure you could say the same thing for the individual consoles or handhelds (except Nintendo, of course).

 

[RSTEIN]

It's what you were doing there and I saw no reason for it, thus asked.

Hmm? We're all talking about piracy and PC sales... this thread is about Carmack's commentary on the state of the PC industry:

“Well, it’s hard to second guess exactly what the reasons are. You can say piracy. You can say user migration. But the ground truth is just that the sales numbers on the PC are not what they used to be and are not what they are on the consoles.”

In other words, I'm contributing to this discussion, which is about piracy, PC sales, console sales, the state of the industry, etc. I'm saying piracy has always been a problem and will continue to be a problem. Despite this developers insist on fighting an uphill battle without attempting to come up with new revenue models (i.e. surfering the same fate as the music industry).

 

[rollingstart]

That wasn't really as a result of the console port though. Morrowind was pretty bad without mods as well. Oblivion was just brutal because of the terrible leveling system and overworld design.

I thought Morrowind was great out of the box, much more so than Oblivion. Mods improved it a lot, I mean, that is how I had a look out tower in Balmora, but I still think even without them it was great.

 

[charlequin]

Personally I've always blamed Carmack and Doom for turning what was a very diverse PC industry that had a games of many genres and all levels of software budgets and games that sold modestly were still profitable into a blockbuster driven industry where games had to be potential million dollar sellers to even be given the green light to develop.

Well, that's pretty dumb. Doom was a tour de force when it came out -- a game that changed what PC gaming could be and produced an entirely new experience in gaming. Should developers hold back from developing masterpieces because of what dumb responses other people in the industry might make to them? :lol

(Besides, the bent towards blockbusters wasn't really a result of Doom -- it was a natural outgrowth of rising budgets and team sizes, and it's affected console games in the same way.)

Developers need to develop for what comes with most PCs and they don't.

Intel is much more to blame here than devs, though. If what came with a cheap new PC was a functional but cheap GPU from ~2-3 years ago, devs would be able to take advantage of it more effectively. But what comes with a new cheap PC is generally Intel-brand integrated graphics that are literally non-functional for almost any 3D game.

 

[Xenon]

People only pirate PC games because gaming PCs (ones that are powerful enough to run the latest games without hiccups) are too expensive. By the time they finish upgrading/building/buying a gaming rig, they don't have any money left over for games.

It's true.

Same thing happened with the C64, video card prices skyrocketed and people were forced to pirate or give up gaming. Oh wait...


People pirate games because they can.

I agree the cost of entry is a joke. I’ll even go further by saying that even when you do shell out for new tech, many features never get fully used because by that time the developers are already looking at the next batch of cards coming out. Also you have to worry about all the other devices being up to par with your video card to prevent a bottle-neck. Then you have OS and drive issues that pop up. PC gaming is a mish mashed beast when you compare it to consoles. Carmack sees where things are heading. It would stupid not to head in that direction.

 

[larvi]

Well, that's pretty dumb. Doom was a tour de force when it came out -- a game that changed what PC gaming could be and produced an entirely new experience in gaming. Should developers hold back from developing masterpieces because of what dumb responses other people in the industry might make to them? :lol

(Besides, the bent towards blockbusters wasn't really a result of Doom -- it was a natural outgrowth of rising budgets and team sizes, and it's affected console games in the same way.)

Yeah, it's a selfish opinion on my part and you are right that if it wasn't Doom, it would have been some other title that opened up the flood gates to greedy big businesses with $$$ in their eyes.

But I would argue the point about it being an entirely new experience in gaming, there were 1st person perspective games on computers long before it. Where Doom succeeded though was putting together a package of gameplay/graphics/sound that was appealing and accessible to console gamers at the time and PC users that never considered playing games on it. It wasn't all that appealing to a lot of existing PC gamers used to a deeper gaming experience though. I guess it's similar to the Wii arguments raging today.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Well, that's pretty dumb. Doom was a tour de force when it came out -- a game that changed what PC gaming could be and produced an entirely new experience in gaming. Should developers hold back from developing masterpieces because of what dumb responses other people in the industry might make to them? :lol

(Besides, the bent towards blockbusters wasn't really a result of Doom -- it was a natural outgrowth of rising budgets and team sizes, and it's affected console games in the same way.)

I think he was more arguing in an indirect manner (or at least that's the way I interpeted it.) I often make the argument that Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat killed arcades in the sense that they were so popular it led them down an endless path of copycats which people tried to copy and killed variety in the aracdes. It isn't really a correct argument but it's sort of like saying something had indirect consequences.

 

[Kabouter]

I love how Carmack just says it how it is, not caring if he pisses of any fanboys.

 

[Tarin02543]

Bottomline is, pc gaming will never be considered socially acceptable aka cool. The recluse glued to his monitor a few inches from his face will always be the image of the general public's perception of pc gaming. The real money sits with consoles which lately have been enjoyed by different layers of society, from poor wellfare hillbillies to rich college boys.

I'd say this bold move from id software is one we need to welcome.

 

[firex]

Yeah, it's a selfish opinion on my part and you are right that if it wasn't Doom, it would have been some other title that opened up the flood gates to greedy big businesses with $$$ in their eyes.

But I would argue the point about it being an entirely new experience in gaming, there were 1st person perspective games on computers long before it. Where Doom succeeded though was putting together a package of gameplay/graphics/sound that was appealing and accessible to console gamers at the time and PC users that never considered playing games on it. It wasn't all that appealing to a lot of existing PC gamers used to a deeper gaming experience though. I guess it's similar to the Wii arguments raging today.

You could blame any big gaming franchise for that. Like GTA for all the clones it's inspired, or FF and Dragon Quest for all the other jRPG series, or Mario for platformers...

 

[Waluvil]

That's cool John, considering iD is a junior partner in my FPS game collection.

 

[Prime crotch]

Well, he his right, the big money is on consoles it's been like that for a while now.

 

[Chiggs]

Bottomline is, pc gaming will never be considered socially acceptable aka cool. The recluse glued to his monitor a few inches from his face will always be the image of the general public's perception of pc gaming.

Yeah, and we all know nothing but pimply-faced nerds play WoW and the Sims.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah, and we all know nothing but pimply-faced nerds play WoW

 

[Chiggs]

^^^^^^^

:lol

Wii and WoW: chicks dig them both.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Bottomline is, pc gaming will never be considered socially acceptable aka cool.

You are living in the past. The computer is about as geeky as a VCR nowadays. Facebook, myspace, and youtube ring any bells?

 

[Fragamemnon]

Bottomline is, pc gaming will never be considered socially acceptable aka cool.

and sitting in front of a television trading angry racial slurs for hours on end with internet people is so much more socially acceptable.

there's nothing socially unacceptable about sitting in front of a computer for 20 to an hour minutes playing bejeweled, sudoku, and what not. For a good chunk of people terribly not represented by this board, that's PC gaming.

 

[RSTEIN]

I love how Carmack just says it how it is, not caring if he pisses of any fanboys.

I know "this is GAF" but it's beyond me how people get upset over this. It's not like he said "Uncharted is a good game... if you like tearing." Or "Gears was awesome. I enjoyed all 5 hours of it."

Carmack's comments over the last couple weeks are FACTS, not OPINIONS. PS3 hard to develop for, theoretically more powerful but in reality not really, DVD9/MS royalty scheme causes issues, and console game sales > PC game sales. If you disagree with any of these statement then you are living under a rock.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

I've started to do something new....

Actually read the article and post good quotes to help tide over the PC haters with their unadulterated blind rage.

"...But the ground truth is just that the sales numbers on the PC are not what they used to be and are not what they are on the consoles.”

This is true. Unless you find the niche that your game can be played on a wide range of hardware and have multiple distribution channels, selling PC games is more difficult than console games.

“We certainly expect Rage and the Doom project on the PC. We’re contractually obligated to have Rage on the PC, and I would be stunned if we did not do Doom 4 for the PC,” Carmack added. “It would just be wrong. Even if it was a marginal business case, we would still do it because it’s the right thing to do.”

This quote is more telling than the above. What it means is with a broader audience on the consoles, with a distribution channel already established and working, basically all id is doing is making the game for the 360 or PS3, sending it to print and MS and Sony get to have the fun with the software. The general feeling I get from his statement is that this is a higher profit margin than the PC is and also leads to greater exposure for their product.

Overall consoles being "mini" computers as it were don't have some of the road blocks that PC users have. The storage issue debate though is interesting and does make for digital downloads to be a little more difficult.

 

[Tom Penny]

PS3 version is going to match the PC version? Superior console version confirmed?

“It will be harder, because this is going to be a larger distribution; we’re at least at two DVDs and on the PC we might choose to be three DVDs to match what the game will look like for the PS3,”

 

[charlequin]

Yeah, it's a selfish opinion on my part and you are right that if it wasn't Doom, it would have been some other title that opened up the flood gates to greedy big businesses with $$$ in their eyes.

I don't think "big greedy businesses" had anything in particular to do with where PC gaming went after Doom, except inasmuch as gaming was already pretty much reaching the point where new, cutting-edge games were too big to be easily developed by one guy in his garage.

But I would argue the point about it being an entirely new experience in gaming, there were 1st person perspective games on computers long before it.

I was talking about deathmatch, actually. Doom's single-player was pretty revolutionary as well (it took a step from representing game content symbolically to evoking an environment directly that was pretty huge and that console games didn't duplicate for a while) but what it did for multiplayer gaming is really its greatest legacy, IMO.

Where Doom succeeded though was putting together a package of gameplay/graphics/sound that was appealing and accessible to console gamers at the time and PC users that never considered playing games on it. It wasn't all that appealing to a lot of existing PC gamers used to a deeper gaming experience though.

The idea that Doom was successful primarily because it brought console gamers over to the PC, or that people who were PC gamers at Doom's release didn't find it "all that appealing" is... not true. :lol

 

[gillty]

why doesn't carmack just admit he hasn't made a good game since Quake 3 arena, quake 4 changed quakes gameplay and arena dm was already getting old, doom 3 was meh, RTCW wasn't even developed by id. I look forward to ids next failure.

 

[Draft]

I love John Carmack. The only developer that delivers lip service to no one.

His decision seems reasonable enough. Right now, developing a game that's going to simu ship on Xbox, PS3, PC and Mac, it makes sense to concentrate on consoles. That's where the real money is.

PC version will still be the best version, but the console versions won't be garbage either. Everybody wins. Once again, Carmack destroys all lesser devs, who are too busy licking MS or Sony ass to move the industry forward.

 

[Crayon]

I think Carmack is systematicly shaking fanboys off his dick. He probably doesn't like dumb people saying he's awesome.

Hei guys; /PSA/!

Since all the pc haters are in here at once, you should take a tip from me.

Spend a minute and grab your ps3 or 360 controller and usb charge cable and just plug the fucker right into your pc. Please for the love of god do it. Marvel as windows sees it immediatly.

Now go spend a minute making it work. From the bottom of my heart, you piece of shit, this is the good thing for you.

Now spend the rest of your miserable life finding out how your pc or in fact any pc is the gaming machine that your hd console can never... ever be. Please allow this to get past your fan-filter and pique your curiosity. And do soon. Maybe NOW.

 

[Christine]

I was talking about deathmatch, actually. Doom's single-player was pretty revolutionary as well (it took a step from representing game content symbolically to evoking an environment directly that was pretty huge and that console games didn't duplicate for a while) but what it did for multiplayer gaming is really its greatest legacy, IMO.

I'd say that its impact on game modification is just as significant.

 

[Blackface]

People only pirate PC games because gaming PCs (ones that are powerful enough to run the latest games without hiccups) are too expensive. By the time they finish upgrading/building/buying a gaming rig, they don't have any money left over for games.

It's true.

You can build a gaming PC for $520 that can play every game on the market right now.

This too expensive bullshit needs to stop. It's slightly more then a PS3 and can be used for about a million more tasks.

-Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB SATA2 7200RPM 8.9MS 8MB Hard Drive OEM 3 Year MFR Warranty

-A-DATA PC2-6400 2GB DDR2-800 240PIN DIMM Memory

-LG 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM IDE UDMA33 INT OEM

-Gigabyte GA-EG31M-S2 mATX LGA775 G31 DDR2 1PCI-E16 2PCI SATA2 Video Sound GBLAN Motherboard

-Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Dual Core Processor LGA775 2.53GHZ 1066FSB 3MB Retail Box

-Coolermaster Elite RC-330 ATX Black Mid Tower Case 4X5.25 2X3.5 5X3.5INT 460W Front USB & Audio

-Palit GeForce 8800GT 600MHZ 512MB 1.8GHZ DDR3 PCI-E DVI-I HDCP HDTV Out Video

$520 on Ncix.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's funny, because some would say that those consoles are "losing" right now.

And those people would be wrong considering that so many games are selling.

 

[Azih]

Frankly Carmack's iPhone comments are the most important insights in the article. It's bizzare that those aren't being focused on instead of gaffers getting their panties in a twist and rushing to defend the honour of their format of choice.

 

[theBishop]

I think the "power user" audience that cares about their PC specs have moved to the Mac in large numbers, where game support is pretty weak.

 

[Blackface]

Well, he his right, the big money is on consoles it's been like that for a while now.

The big Money is in good MMO's, then in consoles.

 

[otake]

well I just started PC gaming. Just built my first rig. Reasons: diablo 3, star craft 2, brothers in arms and the orange box. So they gained me, I guess I must not count.

 

[Ecchi-Time7]

Duh, PC isn't as important as consoles when it comes to Gaming.

 

[camineet]

PC gaming is FUCKED because there are a million different PC configurations with CPUs, motherboards, RAM, graphics cards, etc etc etc etc. The only way the PC will have even a CHANCE of coming back is if the PC becomes a tighter, closed or more closed platform like the Amiga. Or at least some standard like PC 2008, PC 2010 with fixed specs.

 

[Draft]

I think the "power user" audience that cares about their PC specs have moved to the Mac in large numbers, where game support is pretty weak.

Oh lord :lol Yeah, the guys who really care about their PC specs and hardware all moved to the platform that doesn't let you mess with your PC specs and hardware.

FUCKED CHANCE.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I think the "power user" audience that cares about their PC specs have moved to the Mac in large numbers, where game support is pretty weak.

why on earth would they have done that? macs are all about proprietary hardware. that assumption is completely absurd-PC power users and gearheads that care about specs build their own computers or buy top-end prebuilt PCs or laptops.

 

[Crayon]

You can build a gaming PC for $520 that can play every game on the market right now.

Yeah but alot of people spend more than that. I know I would. I have (in the past). There's alot of easy things to spend money on when you are buying for your pc.

I guess voluntarily wasting money is a stupid argument in light of the gears lancer toy for a hundred something dollars at amazon.

So I retract that.

 

[Blackface]

PC gaming is FUCKED because there are a million different PC configurations with CPUs, motherboards, RAM, graphics cards, etc etc etc etc. The only way the PC will have even a CHANCE of coming back is if the PC becomes a tighter, closed or more closed platform like the Amiga. Or at least some standard like PC 2008, PC 2010 with fixed specs.

Or developers could be like Valve and design games for PC properly instead of trying to port console code. That might work.

PC gaming has been the same for over a decade. It's not a sudden revelation many PC's are configured differently.

PC developers need to get together and design a better way of stopping game piracy. Steam is great, but Hard copies still sell. Maybe instead of creating disgusting ports of PC games they should dump the money into new anti piracy technology. Just a thought.

Or maybe they should create fun and addicting games that don't make your PC seem like it's choking it self to death.

 

[Fragamemnon]

PC gaming is FUCKED because there are a million different PC configurations with CPUs, motherboards, RAM, graphics cards, etc etc etc etc. The only way the PC will have even a CHANCE of coming back is if the PC becomes a tighter, closed or more closed platform like the Amiga. Or at least some standard like PC 2008, PC 2010 with fixed specs.

man the hits keep rolling in this thread.

do you know what a hardware abstraction layer is? I agree that there is room for better video drivers so that you don't have to contort your code for the different video rendering targets, but hell most people buy middleware to do that kind of crap for them.

 

[Opiate]

I think Carmack has a point of sorts.

It woudl be fair to say that the type of games he makes have transitioned to consoles, specifically to the PS3 and 360. It doesn't matter that the PC may be technically superior or have better controls; it's about sales.

However, lots of other genres have not transitioned (RTS, Adventure Games) and a few others have grown profoundly (Sim, MMO, and a variety of casual genres, although casual is doing well on the Wii).

In short, the PC Environment is as healthy as always, it's just healthy for different games now. Amazingly, the system that is technically built to push tech constantly isn't really supporting any genres that actually push tech any more. Also known as: my Computer can play Crysis, which looks better than any game on PS3/360, but I play Popcap and The Sims instead because I don't really care.

 

[Blackface]

I think Carmack has a point of sorts.

It woudl be fair to say that the type of games he makes have transitioned to consoles, specifically to the PS3 and 360. It doesn't matter that the PC may be technically superior or have better controls; it's about sales.

However, lots of other genres have not transitioned (RTS, Adventure Games) and a few others have grown profoundly (Sim, MMO, and a variety of casual genres, although casual is doing well on the Wii).

In short, the PC Environment is as healthy as always, it's just healthy for different games now. Amazingly, the system that is technically built to push tech constantly isn't really supporting any genres that actually push tech any more. Also known as: my Computer can play Crysis, which looks better than any game on PS3/360, but I play Popcap and The Sims instead because I don't really care.

I am building and fixing computer systems for a living now. And let me tell you. A 30-40 year old woman will bring in her PC for me to fix, and wonder why it's broken. Then they literally have like 200 popcap, I win and Real arcade games on there.

This happens almost every day.

The amount of casual games that sell on PC is mind boggling.

 

[bluheim]

Now spend the rest of your miserable life finding out how your pc or in fact any pc is the gaming machine that your hd console can never... ever be. Please allow this to get past your fan-filter and pique your curiosity. And do soon. Maybe NOW.

:lol

No. Really. No. But thanks.

 

[dacuk]

You can build a gaming PC for $520 that can play every game on the market right now.

This too expensive bullshit needs to stop. It's slightly more then a PS3 and can be used for about a million more tasks.

-Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB SATA2 7200RPM 8.9MS 8MB Hard Drive OEM 3 Year MFR Warranty

-A-DATA PC2-6400 2GB DDR2-800 240PIN DIMM Memory

-LG 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM IDE UDMA33 INT OEM

-Gigabyte GA-EG31M-S2 mATX LGA775 G31 DDR2 1PCI-E16 2PCI SATA2 Video Sound GBLAN Motherboard

-Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Dual Core Processor LGA775 2.53GHZ 1066FSB 3MB Retail Box

-Coolermaster Elite RC-330 ATX Black Mid Tower Case 4X5.25 2X3.5 5X3.5INT 460W Front USB & Audio

-Palit GeForce 8800GT 600MHZ 512MB 1.8GHZ DDR3 PCI-E DVI-I HDCP HDTV Out Video

$520 on Ncix.

I do not see on your list the cost of the required OS.

And the time/cost estimations on installation, driver / OS tweaking and configuring every game to work the way it is expected on you computer.

Things I can skip just by inserting a disc in my console and... KA-CHING!

 

[Blackface]

I do not see on your list the cost of the required OS.

And the time/cost estimations on installation, driver / OS tweaking and configuring every game to work the way it is expected on you computer.

Things I can skip just by inserting a disc on my console and... KA-CHING!

1. Most games have a "optimal settings" button. It takes two seconds to fix those that don't

2. Driver/OS tweaking? Lets add up the time it takes to update your console, get Xbox Live and PSN network working, adding all your friends,

3. You install games on PS3 and soon to be 360 as well. Otherwise you will sit at loading screens while someone on PC is actually playing the game.

At the end of the day the PC is more then a gaming machine. For $520 you can build something that is superior to a console in the grand scheme of things. It can be used for many different tasks, and is can be a productive piece of machinery.

So don't give me this Time/Cost bs. You can get more done on a PC weather it be for work or school, so Time/Cost is actually far more for a console, that you will ONLY be using the play games and watch movies.

 

[diffusionx]

You can build a gaming PC for $520 that can play every game on the market right now.

This too expensive bullshit needs to stop. It's slightly more then a PS3 and can be used for about a million more tasks.

-Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB SATA2 7200RPM 8.9MS 8MB Hard Drive OEM 3 Year MFR Warranty

-A-DATA PC2-6400 2GB DDR2-800 240PIN DIMM Memory

-LG 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM IDE UDMA33 INT OEM

-Gigabyte GA-EG31M-S2 mATX LGA775 G31 DDR2 1PCI-E16 2PCI SATA2 Video Sound GBLAN Motherboard

-Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Dual Core Processor LGA775 2.53GHZ 1066FSB 3MB Retail Box

-Coolermaster Elite RC-330 ATX Black Mid Tower Case 4X5.25 2X3.5 5X3.5INT 460W Front USB & Audio

-Palit GeForce 8800GT 600MHZ 512MB 1.8GHZ DDR3 PCI-E DVI-I HDCP HDTV Out Video

$520 on Ncix.

While I hear what you are saying, you are forgetting the cost of the OS, as well as shipping costs. And yes, it may play every game on the market right now, but right now is a fleeting thing. It's gonna get old pretty fast (as I have seen in my recent experiences with a freshly built PC on the cheap). You'll definitely have to spend money to upgrade it over the 2-3 year period you keep it before you dump it in the trash and start anew.

p.s. PC gaming is clearly in a transitional phase away from the types of games Carmack sold to buy his Ferraris and towards smaller games, casual games, MMOs, free play games like Battlefield. To a guy like Carmack, PC gaming is clearly not as important, but to the people that make Ragnorak or Maple Story or whatever, it's obviously extremely important.

The age of the big time PC only AAA exclusive that is too radical for consoles is clearly deader than fried chicken, though. Of course, if every console next gen follows Nintendo's lead things might be very different!

 

[theBishop]

Oh lord :lol Yeah, the guys who really care about their PC specs and hardware all moved to the platform that doesn't let you mess with your PC specs and hardware.

FUCKED CHANCE.

I just mean technophile types who are into the newest gadgets, not necessarily guys with water coolers and neon tubes. If those guys are what's left of PC gaming, its not a surprise why things are on decline.

I'm pretty much the last of my circle of nerdy programmer/gamer friends who hasn't moved to the Mac, and I run Linux.

 

[Blackface]

While I hear what you are saying, you are forgetting the cost of the OS, as well as shipping costs. And yes, it may play every game on the market right now, but right now is a fleeting thing. It's gonna get old pretty fast (as I have seen in my recent experiences with a freshly built PC on the cheap). You'll definitely have to spend money to upgrade it over the 2-3 year period you keep it before you dump it in the trash and start anew.

p.s. I don't think PC gaming is dead or anything so PC fanboys don't take the preceding paragraph as a slight. Its clearly in a transitional phase away from the types of games Carmack sold to buy his Ferraris and towards smaller games, casual games, MMOs, free play games like Battlefield. To a guy like Carmack, PC gaming is clearly not as important, but to the people that make Ragnorak or Maple Story or whatever, it's obviously extremely important.

The cost of an OS == Cost of a few years of Xbox Live, and it lasts longer. You also don't need to build a new PC every three years if you do it right. I just upgraded from a four year old PC, and my four year old PC was running games like COD4 np.

Plus you don't need to dump an old computer. There are tons of usefull things you can do with it to recycle. Creating HTPC's, music servers, media servers, firewalls, etc..

PC developers just need to find a way of making money online, because tons of people are playing PC games. I mean, 10,000,000 people play wow, thats slightly less then the entire amount of people who own 360's and ps3's and that's a single game.

Browsers based games are the future. Just look at how much is to be made by advertising. It could be huge.

 

[Blackface]

I just mean technophile types who are into the newest gadgets, not necessarily guys with water coolers and neon tubes. If those guys are what's left of PC gaming, its not a surprise why things are on decline.

I'm pretty much the last of my circle of nerdy programmer/gamer friends who hasn't moved to the Mac, and I run Linux.

Mac's are pretty much laughed at by anyone who is really into computers. Lets pay $1800 for something you can make for $900. Just makes no sense.

 

[bloodline]

This conversation is sooooo played out. Not sure why consolers feel the need to stir the pot on a weekly basis.

At Quakecon he also said M/KB is still the best way to play a FPS...but I dont see you posting that shit.

Seriously, give it a rest. You're obviously insecure about your platform of choice. Otherwise you wouldnt be constantly posting these threads.

 

[Oblivion]

I love how Carmack just says it how it is, not caring if he pisses of any fanboys.

Yeah, he's like David Jaffe, except likable.

 

[Minsc]

Well if one is going by that Carmack quote, while PCs may not be as important as consoles anymore in regards to gaming, the present is also not as good as the past (both true generally and of him).

So enjoy knowing your best today will never be as good as it once was.