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CD Projekt RED: "Industry trending towards over-exploit of gamers"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Chris Murphy
Member
Back when I was a naughty pirate, I pirated the Witcher 1 and played through it. When I saw it on Steam I was in the financial position to actually buy the game, I did, with out a thought.
I had already completed the game, yet I believed that these guys deserved my money.
I don't pirate games at all any more but I think CDP must be doing something right when people like myself are retrospectively buying their games.
I had already completed the game, yet I believed that these guys deserved my money.
I don't pirate games at all any more but I think CDP must be doing something right when people like myself are retrospectively buying their games.
GamerVoice
Banned
I try to say it as polite as possible: your grammar is awkward.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I like CD Projekt's style in regards to extra stuff.
It reminds me of the good old days.
It reminds me of the good old days.
Riposte
Member
This would greatly limit the things we talk about on NeoGAF to the games themselves.
I really wonder how CD Projekt Red managed to get The Witcher 2 at such a low bottom line. They are like Japanese in that respect.
The Wizard
Member
I'm glad that there are companies out there like CDPR and Valve, even if they don't represent the majority of publishers.
Happens all the time. See upcoming Dark Souls PC release.
grimshawish
Banned
Hopefully we see more 'micro transaction' DLC if there is to be a cost involved. The new Mario levels to be made DLC I hope are free; but if not, I accept they aren't 'completed' before release and so have to be paid for.
Problem is too many gamers pay for shit. I gave up on Modern Warfare after the poor multiplayer on the second one - I might have been fine with sub-standard and kept with COD4 or kept to certain maps or something - but they released the EXACT type of maps that the game was lacking/needed.
It was a really crappy thing to do, and I just gave up on it. Stopped paying Live too and moved my online to PC and my console gaming became handheld or Wii.
Am fine with 'additional content'; 'expansions' (BC2's Vietnam expansion was awesome value, and they also gave out free content for players too); because they are well priced and are not needed to appreciate or enjoy the original game. Its basically the developer saying: "You want more? Right well we'll make some smaller stuff before any 'big new one'".
In the end I left that franchise (after really enjoying the other COD's and LOVING MW (amazing game); not loving MW2 but I maybe would have gone for 3 if they'd made my MW2 experience better.
So yeah. DLC should be added content, a mix of free and paid (good business sense comes in here too, give out free content and keep some back - people will maybe think 'yeah I do want these experiences!' - they'll end up paying for the free stuff that way anyway).
Don't know much about these guys, will give them a look in.
Problem is too many gamers pay for shit. I gave up on Modern Warfare after the poor multiplayer on the second one - I might have been fine with sub-standard and kept with COD4 or kept to certain maps or something - but they released the EXACT type of maps that the game was lacking/needed.
It was a really crappy thing to do, and I just gave up on it. Stopped paying Live too and moved my online to PC and my console gaming became handheld or Wii.
Am fine with 'additional content'; 'expansions' (BC2's Vietnam expansion was awesome value, and they also gave out free content for players too); because they are well priced and are not needed to appreciate or enjoy the original game. Its basically the developer saying: "You want more? Right well we'll make some smaller stuff before any 'big new one'".
In the end I left that franchise (after really enjoying the other COD's and LOVING MW (amazing game); not loving MW2 but I maybe would have gone for 3 if they'd made my MW2 experience better.
So yeah. DLC should be added content, a mix of free and paid (good business sense comes in here too, give out free content and keep some back - people will maybe think 'yeah I do want these experiences!' - they'll end up paying for the free stuff that way anyway).
Don't know much about these guys, will give them a look in.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
We try to economize here of GAF, hence the "dat, the "tho", and the frequent omission of pronouns.
I don't think they have anything to worry about. They manage to sell well, push boundaries, and keep their costs in check relative to how many sales they expect.
You know, things a good developer should do.
You are aware that if you want to be seen as a joke account you're actually supposed to be funny rather than just offensive? Just a thought.
Anyway, both The Witcher and now The Witcher 2 enjoy a very long tail thanks to ongoing support, the Enhanced editions etc and free DLC. Not only did I pre-ordered The Witcher 2 thanks to the experience from the first one, it will mean I will always give their games attention because of it.
Also, proper expansions died with the current gen of consoles when publishers realised they could make yearly sequels or thereabouts at minimal effort, then charge full price for them anyway, and of course add DLC on top. It's getting to the point now where I wait for the inevitable "GOTY" editions with a lot of titles, just because I am not willing to pay a significant premium to get the game early AND then get stiffed for DLC.
that and he calls himself the gamervoice. how pretentious....
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
I don't mind being "over-exploited" now and again. It's up to us. Don't like it, don't buy it.
I did my part in double dipping with the Witcher 2(PC/360).
I did my part in double dipping with the Witcher 2(PC/360).
I admit, I lold.
Yup, English isn't my native language and I try my best to express myself as good as possible. But I still prefer having an awkward grammar to having a grammatically correct expressible dumb opinion.
He's not entirely wrong. In business terms, it's "product differentiation". CDP does free DLC as a product differentiator, to make it stand out from the rest of the games out there that charge for DLC. Their internal spreadsheets clearly show this makes them more money with increased box sales than paid DLC would.
That said, if everyone did free DLC, CDP's stand wouldn't be as appealing and they'd sell less boxes. They'd have to do something else to make their product stand out. They're lucky in a sense that the games market allows them to have a business stance that aligns with a lot of gamers moral stance. Paying eastern European wages to develop their games also significantly helps with that.
the problem is when the giants always exploit, with every single release. Even their IPs that they should protect the milk into oblivion and shit on them with malpractices.
I H8 Memes
Member
So we have the voice of the gamers arguing against a consumer friendly company, and a corporate cheerleader arguing for a consumer friendly company. Admit it, you guys set this up before hand. : D
Ohhhh! You got told! Told grammatically awkwardly, but still told.
LegendofJoe
Member
I freaking hate it when people call their customers entitled. It takes a special kind of myopic egoism to even begin to think that is a rational thought. There is no such thing as an entitled consumer. Consumers either value the product enough to buy it at the price they're selling it for or they don't. That's how markets work. If the way you're doing business isn't working for you, change it or go out of business.
It created good will by and large because it went (goes) against the norm. And the good will was well deserved. However, if the argument put forward is that all publishers should take this approach then you're effectively changing the landscape upon which the cited model is based.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
I almost want to cry over the fact that there actually exists one studio like this. Not only do they give away a quest handbook and soundtrack CD for free with their game, but they offer free DLC and act as human beings. They're amazing, and even though I honestly have little interest in Cyberpunk-enviroments I still feel a need to buy it just to support them. They deserve it.
their biggest plus is that they actually make good games, and they have no DRM in their store. Even valve puts DRM in their games.
Vincent Alexander
Member
More Fun To Compute
Member
I guess that it's better to be cautious about people who only tell you what you want to hear but it's not that smart to attack people for giving you what you want.
The situation for a lot publisher is that there product is on store shelves for such short period of time that they have have alternative streams of revenue to break even. With 80% of the revenue coming in the first two months, publishers are unable to create the long tail model that Valve and CD Projekt have been able to create.
Also those publishers have their own online store fronts meaning that when they sell their own game they get the sticker price. The have a luxury to get free content away, so it's understandable to see why publishers need to charge for their extra content.
Also those publishers have their own online store fronts meaning that when they sell their own game they get the sticker price. The have a luxury to get free content away, so it's understandable to see why publishers need to charge for their extra content.
And that just magically happened after horse armor.
Maybe more publishers should look into that "long tail model".
Agreed, I think the key is owning a distribution channel helps out greatly.
Explain?
Delusibeta
Banned
The problem with Burnout Paradise is that they started charging for a stuff a year after the fact with horse armour and a multiplayer mode. They would probably have found greater success had they released all of the paid-for content as a big-ass expansion pack, rather than trying to serve it piecemeal.
Don't really know what publishers can do, so many consumers still look towards retail as a place to purchase games. Until publisher feel a swell of consumers on the digital front they will jump over. Facebook and mobile have not been the golden paradise that people were hoping for.
While I see your point, big IPs nowadays often do it "as normal practice". Staff says they wanna put in something extra to flesh out the game and improve the quality, you know what guys, make this DLC. Nowadays DLC is a nobrainer for companies instead of a thought for quality micro-expansions.
Remember the first famous DLC? Horse armor. That shit has to go.
edit: beaten with the horse armor
for BlazinAm:
before Horse Armor, noone really did DLC in micro transactions, they'd do updates and sell expansions. Some games got 3 expansions and people bought them because of the great core game. Or they made Awesomegame 1.5 because after all, many people buy the same game in fresh clothing if it was great enough. All well running business practices. After horse armor, they began to sell missions. Micro expansions without thought. Weapons. Locations. That awesome character you wanted to play as but for some reason you were never able to select.
If we continue down this path, if I hear of any meaningful DLC for a game I am interested in, I will wait a year for the GOTY/Gold edition because I hate being nickel and dimed... and trickled content. Do you guys really believe trickle content will keep me playing Saints Row 3 for a whole year?? Nope, but it makes me really weary to get SR4 Day 1. Will more like get it Day 356.
Haven't played witcher 2 but was the added content that passable? When a platform gets a game late they usually add in the DLC for free...in some ultimate edition.I don't see the outrage in paying for dlc if it's good if you had the game a year.
Every time someone from CDP opens their mouth I feel like booting up TW2. I don't understand how they keep making so much sense.
That said, the position of expecting free DLC to drum up more sales of the full game probably works better on PC than it does on consoles. On PC they don't have to worry about used copies, which is probably what has all the console publishers charging for so much DLC in the first place. With that in mind, a part of me hopes that will taper off once full console games start being sold digitally day-and-date with retail.
That said, the position of expecting free DLC to drum up more sales of the full game probably works better on PC than it does on consoles. On PC they don't have to worry about used copies, which is probably what has all the console publishers charging for so much DLC in the first place. With that in mind, a part of me hopes that will taper off once full console games start being sold digitally day-and-date with retail.
No the problem was that lost to many people during the time in which they were releasing the free content, also users game buyers were not interested in making an investment in the product for whatever reason. Remember they released all the paid car content almost at once then were hoping that people would hold out the island pack.
Of course you would. But this isn't about consumers, it's about devs and pubs. The case made in the OP appears to be (or, rather, include) 'good will = more sales'. And I'm contending that the reason CD
R's good will was so pervasive and impactful on their sales was because it went against the DLC-model tide.My logical expectation then would be that as free DLC became more common (or perhaps 'too common') it would create less good will. Which obviously doesn't slip too nicely into the 'good will = more sales' equation. I'm just not sure the OP quote is making a (completely) watertight case for their argument.
EDIT: Bugger. I missed FLEABttn's post earlier in the thread. Yeah, what he said.
GamerVoice
Banned
I don't understand.
GlamFM
Banned
Hmm... I see you a lot around here recently.
You should change your attitude if you plan on staying for a while.
old manatee
Banned
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Psh. CDP is just trying to cynically and shamelessly get business by offering tons of value and being consumer-friendly.
how dare they
Rollo Lawson
Banned
Same here. In terms of value, easily one of my best purchases
br0ken_shad0w
Member
DLC isn't inherently bad, just that too many publishers push it too far. Can't wait to see their cyberpunk game. I'm playing The Witcher 1 to prepare myself for 2, but I got burned from fantasy so it's taking me a while for me to get going.
Pachter thread wasn't enough for you?
Pachter thread wasn't enough for you?
GamerVoice
Banned
DLC isn't inherently bad, just that too many publishers push it too far. Can't wait to see their cyberpunk game. I'm playing The Witcher 1 to prepare myself for 2, but I got burned from fantasy so it's taking me a while for me to get going.
Pachter thread wasn't enough for you?
Why are you so hostile to an opinion. I'm not calling anybody out here. I personally find CDP very manipulative and pandering. If you don't, fine. I don't care if you disagree with me. It doesn't offend me.