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[commedieu]

I was told by people in this very forum that unless you ate a bat, made art with the feces of an infected person, or pages with their blood, it was impossible to get.

And yet..

Yeah people tried to troll me when I pointed out that it spreads through sweat and vomit.

No one is saying it spreads through the air. No one here is this stupid. But at least acknowledge that it realistically can spread without precaution.

No no no, its only a problem when someone is showing symptoms! Fool. Anyone can avoid someone with Ebola Symptoms. Symptoms like high fever. sweating..sore throat...stomach pains. These all stick out like sore thumbs...er...wait..

Its safe to say that people don't want others to irrationally freak out. I understand that. These threads don't allow for it too much, Either through medical gaf responding, or corrected information. Its not fair to label all concern as fear mongering or being less intelligent for being concerned, and treat posters like shit that are doing so. (Not talking about myself here, but I'm watching it happen to others)

I'm with you on your point though, Ebola has been downplayed thoroughly, and joked about. But the only thing you can't downplay is the bungled response. The bungled response is why people had concerns to begin with. That we don't have a plan on the books for this. Despite what is said. Actions are speaking louder than the downplaying. This doesn't suggest an outbreak in america, but it suggests that america isn't as prepared as we were all informed.

What we are witnessing now, is persons who don't have an ability to scale their hyperbole down a bit and acknowledge that mistakes are being made. Mistakes that seemed impossible in America months ago, due to how prepared America is. These mistakes are unacceptable when dealing with ebola. People need to have confidence in the health system and the state/country. Not stories that keep changing to shift blame, and people debating about cleaning up after an Ebola Victim.

 

[mid83]

Whats your experience with Epic's EMR and EHR systems..? Or do you not deal with that type of tasks..?

You said you and others have had concerns over the last few months? Can you elaborate.

We don't use Epic, but I've used it in the past a few times. Why do you ask?

In terms of concerns, most of it is being scared to care for Ebola patients if we were to get them. I think you'd find most health care workers would feel the same one to one degree or another. In terms of specific concerns, I think the biggest is that the mode of transmissions is not exactly what we are being led to believe, especially if people are wearing proper PPE (personal protective equipment). Workers getting infected wearing PPE is pretty scary for us as that is our only defense against getting these diseases we are exposed to. That not only puts our health at risk but the health of our other patients at risk too.

 

[Raist]

Yes, and it also happened to a nurse in Spain, how she got infected it's still not clear. It makes you wonder if there's something we don't know yet.

Maybe he got infected when they still didn't know the pacient had Ebola?

No, there's nothing "we don't know". People make mistakes.

I'm not entirely sure why there's all these reports going like "omg she was fully protected we don't know what happened!1!1" considering what the CDC guy said (it's also in the video):

The nurse had "extensive contact" on "multiple occasions," said Dr. Tom Frieden, the director of the CDC.

"At some point, there was a breach in protocol, and that breach in protocol resulted in this infection," he said at a news conference Sunday. "The (Ebola treatment) protocols work. ... But we know that even a single lapse or breach can result in infection."

edit: my bad, just caught up with the news and I clicked the link in thte post bumping this thread today. I guess it got updated at a later point with the CDC conference.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Germany shames the USA in Ebola prep and response.

 

[ironichaos]

And its not just the USA. These types of things you'd figure would be standard. But other issues like politics, or looking bad, is prompting a ridiculous response to this virus. It is not confidence inspiring, and im sure it makes the job of everyone yelling at the top of their lungs "calm down!! its ok!" difficult when preventable mistake on top of mistake keeps happening. We don't even know the honest truth about why duncan was turned away to begin with, and why the nurse didn't consider it important that he came from Liberia and was showing symptoms. We just know for 100% it was NOT a software issue (After they said it was 100% a software issue). I looked into the software, of course its some huge company. Mainly an Obama donor. Epic software is nothing but problematic to the medical community -- you can look it up yourself. So its no surprise that the hospital switched their messaging from software error to, incompetence.

I think the hiccups are entirely policy/worlflow related and not Epic software related. People like to use Epic as an easy scapegoat, when the reality is user error, lack of training. I work with the Epic software every single day. If organizations want, they can easily add a required rooming question to the application about travel history that if answered yes, could send alerts or flags to the necessary people. It's computer software. It does what you tell it to do based on your policies and workflows. If you don't have a policy or workflow to ask about someone's travel history, then that's the fault of hospital leadership, not the Epic software.

 

[mid83]

I haven't been following the whole story with Duncan all that closely, what's the concern with Epic? I've seen it mentioned a few times now.

Is Epic somehow being blamed for Duncan getting sent home the first time? How so?

 

[FartOfWar]

CDC guy said (it's also in the video): "At some point, there was a breach in protocol, and that breach in protocol resulted in this infection,"
.

Is he assuming there was a breach in protocol because she was infected, or has he identified the specific breach in protocol that resulted in the infection? His language is imprecise, and the "at some point" strongly implies the former. And this would mean there is something not known (i.e. the nature and timing of the protocol breach).

 

[Slayer-33]

Exactly how the hell did that nurse get that virus..

Did they have a full blown make out session? Christ.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Is he assuming there was a breach in protocol because she was infected, or has he identified the specific breach in protocol that resulted in the infection? His language is imprecise, and the "at some point" strongly implies the former.

Why don't you watch the video in which he goes into more detail

 

[commedieu]

I haven't been following the whole story with Duncan all that closely, what's the concern with Epic? I've seen it mentioned a few times now.

Is Epic somehow being blamed for Duncan getting sent home the first time? How so?

1. The hospital originally blamed the Epic software.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...-gap-allowed-ebola-man-to-leave-hospital.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...f-an-electronic-health-record-problem/381087/
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/sus...-blamed-medical-error-involving-ebola-patient

The electronic records system at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital didn’t flag the information to the physician, hospital officials said. Even so, the doctor should have known to double-check himself rather than depend on someone else, said Ashish Jha, a health policy professor at Harvard University’s School of Public Health in Boston.

“There are so many flaws in the logic of ‘The EMR system made us to do it,’” Jha said in a telephone interview, referring to the emergency’s room’s records. “When a patient walks in the ER with a fever, the standard question is ‘Have you traveled?’ I don’t understand why that question wasn’t asked by the physician.”

2. Then the hospital retracted their story
http://www.ihealthbeat.org/articles...-issues-correction-says-no-flaw-in-ehr-system

I think the hiccups are entirely policy/worlflow related and not Epic software related. People like to use Epic as an easy scapegoat, when the reality is user error, lack of training. I work with the Epic software every single day. If organizations want, they can easily add a required rooming question to the application about travel history that if answered yes, could send alerts or flags to the necessary people. It's computer software. It does what you tell it to do based on your policies and workflows. If you don't have a policy or workflow to ask about someone's travel history, then that's the fault of hospital leadership, not the Epic software.

it does sound like they didn't set it up correctly, which would indicate that we probably need to update all hospital software records with travel history on the first page.
WHich is the setup you're talking about. The doctor should have double checked. They have changed their story, so its hard to buy whatever they are selling. Things like this should be standard.. but I guess thats the problem I'm seeing with EMR's..

 

[FartOfWar]

Why don't you watch the video in which he goes into more detail

Ah, still listening. So he isn't sure, suspects one of two procedures.

This much is clear, though: Trained staff is still exposed to uncertainty, even with all this attention on a single high-profile patient. Should this facility suddenly face circumstances where its caring for thirty such patients, the complexity and uncertainty continues to increase. No one is arguing that America's health care system isn't more robust by an order of magnitude than say that in Liberia, and I see no "sky is falling" scenario in the first world as of yet, but some of you seem absolutely positive that big complex systems are fail-proof in unknown scenarios.

 

[mid83]

Exactly how the hell did that nurse get that virus..

Did they have a full blown make out session? Christ.

There are tons of opportunities for exposure if the proper PPE wasn't worn, or it was worn improperly. Blood, body fluids, urine, feces, and respiratory sputum are things that I'm sure would cause exposure if nurse had contact with them.

I think the biggest risk is removal of the equipment. With as much gear as workers wear around Ebola patients, there is a specific order you have to remove the equipment in order not to get exposed as you can taking things off (touching the outside of a gown that had exposure to body fluids etc..).

So there are plenty of chances for exposure.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

.

 

[jamesinclair]

Nobody ruled out an additional case here and there in the U.S. What they meant is there's virtually now way that it could spread anywhere close to like it has in West Africa. It's not their fault that you interpreted their posts the way you did.

Yeah I don't think you've read the entire Ebola threads

 

[Stet]

Yeah I don't think you've read the entire Ebola threads

I'm not sure you have. Nobody is saying that it "can't" or "won't" spread at all, to anyone. They're saying that it won't spread on the level of an outbreak of even several people. Viruses can always spread, but the virulence of ebola and the way we handle sick people make it an unlikely candidate.

 

[ironichaos]

it does sound like they didn't set it up correctly, which would indicate that we probably need to update all hospital software records with travel history on the first page.
WHich is the setup you're talking about. The doctor should have double checked. They have changed their story, so its hard to buy whatever they are selling. Things like this should be standard.. but I guess thats the problem I'm seeing with EMR's..

If the government wanted, they could offer incentives as part of Meaningful Use, to include a review of travel history with every clinic, emergency, or inpatient visit. This would encourage all hospitals and clinics to include this in their workflows and build the workflow to accommodate this into whichever EHR they use. I mean, it's a free country so unless the government requires or offers incentives, the reality is not everyone will perform such a screening.

 

[AmyS]

I thought this was a neat picture from the NYT:

"A Liberian soldier and a United States Marine took cover as a V-22 Osprey buzzed overhead in Tubmanburg, north of Monrovia"

Negative.

Good to hear.

 

[KHarvey16]

Those same people stated that the US standards of exceptionalism meant our quality of care was so great that it couldn't spread.

It can't spread. I know some of you find that disappointing, but it's true.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

It can't spread. I know some of you find that disappointing, but it's true.

Someone's going to get into a semantic argument with you over the word "spread".

 

[Little Green Yoda]

1.) There was an error in either how the protective gear was worn or how it was removed. I know at my hospital there has been an official Ebola isolation policy that has been issued ever since the outbreak got bad in Africa earlier this year. There are very specific steps on how to remove each piece of protective equipment. Not following that to the letter could lead to exposure. I think this is by far the most realistic options.

This would not be not surprising in the least. Someone I know used to work in licensing/auditing for infection control in hospitals and the like. So many stories about places being lax in their practices or policies.

 

[FartOfWar]

It can't spread. I know some of you find that disappointing, but it's true.

No one, aside from the strawmen you throw together, finds that disappointing. The Titanic couldn't sink. Humans can't change the climate. Boeing widebodies don't disappear. Dow Jones can't lose 1,000 points due to a sell algorithm. It's not even that we think it's certain or even likely to spread. It's that you categorically insist that it cannot.


http://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-most-important-black-swan-events-in-history

 

[Ether_Snake]

Experts worldwide have been saying for a long time that a pandemic is not a question of if, but a question of when, due to the global socio-economic structure we live in today. Whether that would come from Ebola or not, the issues that would allow a pandemic to occur more than ever are all still there and the implications greater than ever.

Imagine this hitting cities in China where a lot of factories are located. Soon enough you got the world economy coming to a dead stop.

 

[User Name Here]

I think it is spreading interdimensionally

It has begun. . .

 

[frontovik]

I'd be concerned if Ebola starts spreading in Asia (especially in countries with high density populations such as China and India)

 

[Konka]

Experts worldwide have been saying for a long time that a pandemic is not a question of if, but a question of when, due to the global socio-economic structure we live in today. Whether that would come from Ebola or not, the issues that would allow a pandemic to occur more than ever are all still there and the implications greater than ever.

Imagine this hitting cities in China where a lot of factories are located. Soon enough you got the world economy coming to a dead stop.

Yeah and imagine then that ebola is actually a homing beacon for an alien comet that is set to target Paris.

 

[FartOfWar]

Yeah and imagine then that ebola is actually a homing beacon for an alien comet that is set to target Paris.

Yeah, it's totally impossible and the Chinese know better than to bother with precautions:

 

[KHarvey16]

Someone's going to get into a semantic argument with you over the word "spread".

You might be right! If "spread" was ever meant to include one more case of a nurse with extensive contact with a patient though, I don't think anyone should have been too worried.

No one, aside from the strawmen you throw together, finds that disappointing. The Titanic couldn't sink. Humans can't change the climate. Boeing widebodies don't disappear. Dow Jones can't lose 1,000 points due to a sell algorithm. It's not even that we think it's certain or even likely to spread. It's that you categorically insist that it cannot.


http://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-most-important-black-swan-events-in-history

There are a few posters who have consistently exaggerated the threat, mischaracterized the transmission mechanisms and rates and spoken ignorantly regarding any number of details about evolution, air travel, hospital protocol and treatment methods. That wasn't a comment referring to this thread alone. There have been multiple threads where we've seen someone come in and let us all know that no one knows what they're doing, no one should be allowed to travel out of Africa and this is a pandemic in the making. Even after all of their faulty assumptions regarding the topics I described above are corrected, they persist. That they want there to be an epidemic might be the most charitable interpretation of what's driving them.

The ebola virus really cannot cause an epidemic in the US. How and when it is transmitted, how contagious it is and the state of healthcare in this country all make it so unlikely that the word "cannot" is justified.

 

[Chumly]

I'd be concerned if Ebola starts spreading in Asia (especially in countries with high density populations such as China and India)

Considering it already spread to Nigeria once of the densest countries in the world and they contained it just fine.... I think even if it does that they will be able to contain it rather easily.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm going to make a new thread. new news, new thread. . . .

 

[Nivash]

Experts worldwide have been saying for a long time that a pandemic is not a question of if, but a question of when, due to the global socio-economic structure we live in today. Whether that would come from Ebola or not, the issues that would allow a pandemic to occur more than ever are all still there and the implications greater than ever.

Imagine this hitting cities in China where a lot of factories are located. Soon enough you got the world economy coming to a dead stop.

We have pandemics all the time. H1N1 was the last one with a new agent, it infected 10-20 % of the global population. Ebola is not that kind of agent. It's nowhere near transmittable enough. You typically need something airborne with the ability to be infectious before the emergence of symptoms, that way you can't quarantine known infected individuals with any hope that this will prevent a further spread and contact tracing becomes pointless once you deal with hundreds of potential exposures for every patient.

The only thing you really need to prevent an actual outbreak of something like Ebola (and I'm talking about this spreading beyond control, not sporadic cases that can be directly linked to patient zero) is a basic contact trace. Any country with even the most basic healthcare system (aka not a country in West Africa) is capable of doing this. Just track down anyone that you know have been in contact with a patient and monitor them. this is actually what the nurse did herself. If it's true she got isolated within 90 minutes of running a low fever she wouldn't even have been infectious so there couldn't be any cases caused by her.

Of course it's concerning that hospital staff in full gear get infected, but that's concerning for hospital staff - not the general public. Said staff are monitored and know what symptoms to look out for, so there won't be any spread by them. But it does mean that the routines need to be examined or staff training needs to be augmented. So again, no, any such faults are not going to cause an outbreak because they aren't strictly needed to prevent one - it's just to protect valuable staff. But yes, it's tragic and frustrating that it can even happen in the first case.

 

[commedieu]

Considering it already spread to Nigeria once of the densest countries in the world and they contained it just fine.... I think even if it does that they will be able to contain it rather easily.

Wait wait wait.. I think people need to look into Nigeria. Not only did Nigeria respond amazingly quick, they immediately nipped it in the bud and had systems on top of systems actively working since the first case. Unlike the USA. It was not wide spread in Nigeria. If this is understood, disregard my comment. But it seems that people think that Nigeria had 1000's of cases that they resolved. They had.. 20. All under observation. Not denying healtchare to them, and sending them on their way with Antibiotics. No, a team of 150 people worked to trace everyone and their grandmothers immediately. No one debating about cleaning up after the victim. Just how it should be done, under the best case scenario of identifying someone with an illness immediately. Not sending them home.

Feel free to use Nigeria as an example of how to do it right. The United States hasn't followed in its efforts that appease concern, at all. The USA isn't Nigeria, in the way the USA is dropping the ball. Not by a long shot. And these problems do reflect problems with our healtchare system in general. That are going to be nationwide occurrences unless there is federal action to get hospitals all on the same page -- but we have states that all do things differently.

The way some people speak about Nigeria is as if it was as widespread as it is in other areas, like Liberia. Their actions spoke louder than all of the talk from other nations.

I'm going to make a new thread. new news, new thread. . . .

good idea.

 

[Stet]

I'm going to make a new thread. new news, new thread. . . .

Might as well make a thread for every new case in Liberia, because they're just as likely to cause a pandemic.

 

[mario_O]

This news really hits close to home for me. I'm an RN in a very busy ICU at a major metropolitan hospital in the south. Hearing that a health care worker is infected is just fueling the fears that many of my coworkers have had over the past few months. It's pretty scary stuff for us.

In any case, I can only see a few realistic options for why this nurse got infected.

1.) There was an error in either how the protective gear was worn or how it was removed. I know at my hospital there has been an official Ebola isolation policy that has been issued ever since the outbreak got bad in Africa earlier this year. There are very specific steps on how to remove each piece of protective equipment. Not following that to the letter could lead to exposure. I think this is by far the most realistic options.

2.) The nurse received a needle stick.

3.) The mode of transmission is different than we are being led to believe at this point. This is the scariest, but hopefully not true.

Do you know if the protocol says that someone should help and supervise the moment you remove the protective gear? and also, go through a chlorine shower before removing the protective gear? I believe this is what they do in Africa; and in Spain we now think this is the reason the nurse could have infected herself; this was not part of the protocol and she had to remove the gear on her own and with no decontamination shower.

 

[Raist]

Wait wait wait.. I think people need to look into Nigeria. Not only did Nigeria respond amazingly quick, they immediately nipped it in the bud and had systems on top of systems actively working since the first case. Unlike the USA. It was not wide spread in Nigeria. If this is understood, disregard my comment. But it seems that people think that Nigeria had 1000's of cases that they resolved. They had.. 20. All under observation. Not denying healtchare to them, and sending them on their way with Antibiotics. No, a team of 150 people worked to trace everyone and their grandmothers immediately. No one debating about cleaning up after the victim. Just how it should be done, under the best case scenario of identifying someone with an illness immediately. Not sending them home.

The liberian diplomat who flew to Nigeria infected someone else, who escaped quarantine and went to another city, where he was treated in a hotel by a doctor, who went on the infect his wife (also a healthcare worker) and carried on treating patients after starting developing symptoms.
Your description of what happened there is grossly incorrect.

 

[commedieu]

The liberian diplomat who flew to Nigeria infected someone else, who escaped quarantine and went to another city, where he was treated in a hotel by a doctor, who went on the infect his wife (also a healthcare worker) and carried on treating patients after starting developing symptoms.
Your description of what happened there is grossly incorrect.

My general description of nigeria not having many cases is correct. My general description of how the world is praising Nigeria for their response, is correct. Does each virus tracer's story need to be highlighted? Well. Maybe..? Nigerias speedy response is in stark comparison to Dallas's fumbling of sending an ebola patient home.

Grossly.. .well...? I think theres some room to reduce grossly. But, when my overall point is that I hope people are aware of how wide-spread it was in Nigera was..

I hope that people are aware of how wide spread it was in Nigeria.

 

[Nivash]

My general description of nigeria not having many cases is correct. My general description of how the world is praising Nigeria for their response, is correct. Does each virus tracer's story need to be highlighted? Well. Maybe..? Nigerias speedy response is in stark comparison to Dallas's fumbling of sending an ebola patient home.

Grossly.. .well...? I think theres some room to reduce grossly. But, when my overall point is that I hope people are aware of how wide-spread it was in Nigera was..

I hope that people are aware of how wide spread it was in Nigeria.

Nigeria ended up with 18 cases and 6 deaths precisely due to failing to follow procedure! They had several generations of infected! That's not something to hold up as a shining example of how to do things right, it's an example of how proper outbreak control still works in the long run even if you screw up early on.

 

[Raist]

My general description of nigeria not having many cases is correct. My general description of how the world is praising Nigeria for their response, is correct. Does each virus tracer's story need to be highlighted? Well. Maybe..? Nigerias speedy response is in stark comparison to Dallas's fumbling of sending an ebola patient home.

Grossly.. .well...? I think theres some room to reduce grossly. But, when my overall point is that I hope people are aware of how wide-spread it was in Nigera was..

I hope that people are aware of how wide spread it was in Nigeria.

Your post is "Nigeria did everything right and controlled everything, the USA are fucked".

When you compare what happens:

Nigeria:
Infected individual flies in, infects a local.
Said local escapes quarantine, goes to another city
Is treated in a private hotel by a doctor, who gets infected, develops symptoms yet keeps on treating and operating patients for 2 whole days.

USA:
Infected individual flies in, infects a nurse in the hospital he's being treated.
Nurse goes to hospital at the slightest hint of symptoms.

The whole "Nigeria goooood, USA baaaad" angle is rather amusing.

So, despite all this, if Nigeria managed to control the virus at the very beginning of the outbreak, I think the USA should be OK.

 

[prwxv3]

I'm not sure you have. Nobody is saying that it "can't" or "won't" spread at all, to anyone. They're saying that it won't spread on the level of an outbreak of even several people. Viruses can always spread, but the virulence of ebola and the way we handle sick people make it an unlikely candidate.

Oh god this. There is a reason why is spread like wildfire in Africa and it wont spread like wildfire here.

 

[legacyzero]

Dustin Hoffman:
Deep fuckin shit

 

[Ponn]

Uh huh....this all I can muster right now.

No on second thought I got more.

CDC: "Everyone calm down, Ebola is super hard to pass on and you have nothing to worry about because its not airborne so don't worry. We know what we are doing and you can trust us, we would never backtrack on statements."

All of the CDC people put on hazmat suits. "You all have absolutely nothing to worry about, go about your normal business"

 

[commedieu]

Nigeria ended up with 18 cases and 6 deaths precisely due to failing to follow procedure! They had several generations of infected! That's not something to hold up as a shining example of how to do things right, it's an example of how proper outbreak control still works in the long run even if you screw up early on.

Its inherent that there are things Nigeria hasn't done right during a literal rush to action. However, They are being applauded for their work. Outside of Neogaf, well. The world is applauding Nigeria.

Nigeria gets praise from the U.S. for its Ebola response: Jarvis DeBerry
http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf/2014/10/nigeria_gets_praise_from_the_u.html

Heres the world bank: Ebola Containment: Nigeria Receives World Bank Commendation
http://www.channelstv.com/2014/10/09/ebola-containment-nigeria-receives-world-bank-commendation/

Ebola outbreak: What Europe and US can learn from Nigeria in containing the virus
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-nigeria-in-containing-the-virus-9780273.html

I'm not being an asshole here. But to downplay Nigerias success because of things inherent to containing Ebola - yet are on track to have no more cases after 42+ days, is absurd. Would they have to have a perfect track record.. to actually deserve the praise from you two? Considering their geographical location and population density..?

Mistakes will always be made, like what is clearly happening in the USA and Spain. but Nigeria dealt with those mistakes pretty well. I didn't think that we had to go into the fact that mistakes are made in medicine and viral quarantines.

Your post is "Nigeria did everything right and controlled everything, the USA are fucked".

When you compare what happens:

Nigeria:
Infected individual flies in, infects a local.
Said local escapes quarantine, goes to another city
Is treated in a private hotel by a doctor, who gets infected, develops symptoms yet keeps on treating and operating patients for 2 whole days.

USA:
Infected individual flies in, infects a nurse in the hospital he's being treated.
Nurse goes to hospital at the slightest hint of symptoms.

The whole "Nigeria goooood, USA baaaad" angle is rather amusing.

So, despite all this, if Nigeria managed to control the virus at the very beginning of the outbreak, I think the USA should be OK.

Nah, I'm going with the world who is praising Nigeria for their actions that reduced Ebola. You two, don't want to, for good reasons. So, we gotta just agree that I'm right, and move on.

 

[Raist]

Its inherent that there are things Nigeria hasn't done right during a literal rush to action. However, They are being applauded for their work. Outside of Neogaf, well. The world is applauding Nigeria.

Nigeria gets praise from the U.S. for its Ebola response: Jarvis DeBerry
http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf/2014/10/nigeria_gets_praise_from_the_u.html

Heres the world bank: Ebola Containment: Nigeria Receives World Bank Commendation
http://www.channelstv.com/2014/10/09/ebola-containment-nigeria-receives-world-bank-commendation/

Ebola outbreak: What Europe and US can learn from Nigeria in containing the virus
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-nigeria-in-containing-the-virus-9780273.html

I'm not being an asshole here. But to downplay Nigerias success because of things inherent to containing Ebola - yet are on track to have no more cases after 42+ days, is absurd. Would they have to have a perfect track record.. to actually deserve the praise from you two? Considering their geographical location and population density..?

Mistakes will always be made, like what is clearly happening in the USA and Spain. but Nigeria dealt with those mistakes pretty well. I didn't think that we had to go into the fact that mistakes are made in medicine and viral quarantines.

Nah, I'm going with the world who is praising Nigeria for their actions that reduced Ebola. You two, don't want to, for whatever reason.

No one is downplaying or dismissing Nigeria's efforts. However, saying that the situation in the USA is a mess compared to what happened there is just not true at all. Stop completely misrepresenting what we're saying please.

 

[Nivash]

Nah, I'm going with the world who is praising Nigeria for their actions that reduced Ebola. You two, don't want to, for good reasons. So, we gotta just agree that I'm right, and move on.

I'm fine with praising them too. They did an excellent job - eventually - with somewhat limited resources. But they screwed up big time early on. There's no denying that. Patient zero infected a local who escaped quarantine and infected a doctor who infected a nurse. That's three generations right there, the exact thing you need to avoid in an outbreak. I just can't understand how you criticize Dallas who screwed up by unfavorably comparing them to Nigeria who screwed up worse.

But again, hats off to Nigeria for getting the situation under control after they understood what was going on. It's great to see that even relatively poor countries can stop an outbreak fairly early. That's why they're praised. But they're abso-fucking-lutely not an example of how to do everything right, and even the flawed early processing in Dallas have them beat so far.

 

[commedieu]

No one is downplaying or dismissing Nigeria's efforts. However, saying that the situation in the USA is a mess compared to what happened there is just not true at all. Stop completely misrepresenting what we're saying please.

Well thats fine then. I took it the wrong way with making this a USA vs Nigeria thing. But, what happened in the USA on its own is a mess as others have chimed in about.

"In Texas, they really were slow to the plate," said Robert Murphy, director of the Center for Global Health at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine. "Texas is going to be the example of what not to do."

Its a messy situation, but our first step out of the door was 3 backwards.

I'm fine with praising them too. They did an excellent job - eventually - with somewhat limited resources. But they screwed up big time early on. There's no denying that. Patient zero infected a local who escaped quarantine and infected a doctor who infected a nurse. That's three generations right there, the exact thing you need to avoid in an outbreak. I just can't understand how you criticize Dallas who screwed up by unfavorably comparing them to Nigeria who screwed up worse.

But again, hats off to Nigeria for getting the situation under control after they understood what was going on. It's great to see that even relatively poor countries can stop an outbreak fairly early. That's why they're praised. But they're abso-fucking-lutely not an example of how to do everything right, and even the flawed early processing in Dallas have them beat so far.

Well because our healthcare system is allegedly better than Nigeria. That is why I can compare the two, quite easily. The senior level kid is making the same mistakes as the lower level kid. I do have quite higher standards than sending a man home that flew in from liberia with ebola symptoms. (Which may or may not have been because of lack of insurance, but the hospital has multiple statements and retractions about the issue) This isn't going to be the only instance of the problems of American Healthcare manifesting. Thats all. I took what you were saying the wrong way earlier.

 

[FartOfWar]

You might be right! If "spread" was ever meant to include one more case of a nurse with extensive contact with a patient though, I don't think anyone should have been too worried.



There are a few posters who have consistently exaggerated the threat, mischaracterized the transmission mechanisms and rates and spoken ignorantly regarding any number of details about evolution, air travel, hospital protocol and treatment methods. That wasn't a comment referring to this thread alone. There have been multiple threads where we've seen someone come in and let us all know that no one knows what they're doing, no one should be allowed to travel out of Africa and this is a pandemic in the making. Even after all of their faulty assumptions regarding the topics I described above are corrected, they persist. That they want there to be an epidemic might be the most charitable interpretation of what's driving them.

The ebola virus really cannot cause an epidemic in the US. How and when it is transmitted, how contagious it is and the state of healthcare in this country all make it so unlikely that the word "cannot" is justified.

Fair enough as I haven't read everything written in the thread. I still never say never, though. To offer a deliberately unlikely example (as all black swans are by definition, and an ebola outbreak in the US would be a black swan given the insistence of its impossibility), say a massive solar storm disrupts electric power distribution two days after four people are infected in a major urban center. Or take any other natural disaster that disrupts social systems and strains emergency response, etc. The point is that it is so improbable it would be silly to worry about it, however, it certainly can happen. Think on Fukushima's planned robustness to earthquake shock and the results when the shock was accompanied by a tsunami.

 

[Phreaker]

Some scientists who have long studied Ebola say such assurances (that it cannot be transmitted by the air in tight quarters) are premature (L.A. Times article): http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

 

[Mononoke]

Some scientists who have long studied Ebola say such assurances (that it cannot be transmitted by the air in tight quarters) are premature (L.A. Times article): http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

I guess I'll admit I'm ignorant when it comes to science, and how we study diseases. But haven't we've been studying ebola for some time now? Do they really not know 100% how it's spread or not spread?

 

[EricTheCleric]

Some scientists who have long studied Ebola say such assurances (that it cannot be transmitted by the air in tight quarters) are premature (L.A. Times article): http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

CDC says so as well....

Though unlikely, if person w/#Ebola sneezes on someone & saliva/mucus contacts person’s eyes, nose, mouth, disease may be spread. #CDCchat

https://twitter.com/CDCemergency/status/519940421175496704

considering flu season is coming and early ebola symptoms might be mistaken for flu or people might get both at the same time, it could be an idea to avoid the subway during rush hour if Ebola reaches a city

 

[Mononoke]

CDC says so as well....





https://twitter.com/CDCemergency/status/519940421175496704

considering flu season is coming and early ebola symptoms might be mistaken for flu or people might get both at the same time, it could be an idea to avoid the subway during rush hour if Ebola reaches a city

Isn't that what we already knew though? What the CDC says is basically fluids being swapped. It's not sneezing itself, but it's getting the mucus from them on you (coming into contact with fluids). That's not the same thing as being airborn, or not knowing how it spreads entirely. Isn't this in line with what we've already known?

 

[EricTheCleric]

Some scientists who have long studied Ebola say such assurances (that it cannot be transmitted by the air in tight quarters) are premature (L.A. Times article): http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

god damn....


some of those images are heart-wrenching