War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Loving it so far.
Maybe this is referenced in the last bits (ad break) but she sings the song from the Million Merits episode, yes?
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Charlie Brooker's Black Mirror getting a feature length Christmas special
- Thread starter Exterminieren
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Yes.
Well, that was depressing, and altough I saw that
I still enjoyed it.
Also, I found it a little too strange that
Plus, can someome explain to me why
the little girl isn't his and that Hamm is in virtual reality helping the police
Also, I found it a little too strange that
this episode was in the same universe as 15Mil Merits. Or are they all?
Plus, can someome explain to me why
the women was willing to remove part of her brain into cookie?
TheHollowNight
Member
I'm not sure if the references to 15 Million Merits is part of a universal contingency running through the series, just a cute nod to that particular episode.
I think the main reason she opted into the Cookie was because she was always over-thinking about everything, and wanted to be free from scrutinizing every aspect of her life internally. The cookie freed her from all that responsibility since it prepared everything for her the way she wanted.
shadyspace
Banned
This entire series has always been stupid.
Why would you give an informant/crucial aspect to your investigation a worst sentence than imprisonment? The blanking just encourages physical violence, nobody would obey it, it would just make things monumentally worse. Why torture a computer program for 1000 years that is a copy of a man who committed an accidental murder. And I thought the US's justice system was blood thirsty. This show has sucked since the first episode almost made me throw up when they made their head of state fuck a pig.
TheHollowNight
Member
Actually there's a bunch of references to earlier Black Mirror episodes apparently! Spoiler review, mind you:
http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/black-mirror/33392/black-mirror-white-christmas-review
So if the show has sucked since the first episode, why did you bother to watch the Christmas special?
http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/black-mirror/33392/black-mirror-white-christmas-review
So if the show has sucked since the first episode, why did you bother to watch the Christmas special?
Well,
song wasn't the only reference, there was also Hot Shot tv show running on tv.
Thanks for explenation.
Everyone in this show is a bad person.
It takes reality and pushes it to the extreme. Luckily we will never reach anything like that, but it's interesting to see. I agree with you on the first episode though. And yea, blocking someone is likely to cause even more trouble. Unless if a blocked person couldn't physically touch the blocker.
Discotheque
Banned
They should have called this episode fate worse than death
What they did to jon Hamm was....whoa. Fuck that, this might surprisingly be the most cruel episode of the show I've seen....
It was interesting but really unsettling too. Hamm killed it btw, great casting
What they did to jon Hamm was....whoa. Fuck that, this might surprisingly be the most cruel episode of the show I've seen....
It was interesting but really unsettling too. Hamm killed it btw, great casting
I thought this was really weak. Other episodes have focussed on the tech-determinism of human/machine interaction, but this was more a procedural investigation with Oona Chaplin thrown in for vulnerable eye-candy and a family-tale to segue into Christmas.
I was really disappointed. Was anyone else?
I was really disappointed. Was anyone else?
I think they spent too long on John Hamms story, even though he did play it really well.
The idea of this guy being Santa Claus to his estranged daughter is a really great christmas story (that then goes wrong in an awesome black mirror kind of a way).
It felt very much like at some point it was more about the Christmas story and then "HOLY SHIT WE GOT JOHN HAMM" and things changed.
The idea of this guy being Santa Claus to his estranged daughter is a really great christmas story (that then goes wrong in an awesome black mirror kind of a way).
It felt very much like at some point it was more about the Christmas story and then "HOLY SHIT WE GOT JOHN HAMM" and things changed.
Great episode, just wanted to go upstairs and give my son a hug afterwards.
I do think
John Hamm was fantastic too
Edit: I forgot to mention the bit where John steps on 'Sophie la giraffe' when he trying to sneak about the house was hilarious, I've done exactly the same thing many times.
I do think
the girlfriend was a bit mean for just blocking him and leaving without any explanation, even just a letter saying the child wasn't his would have been enough...
John Hamm was fantastic too
I wonder if we'll see similar services with Google glass =D
Edit: I forgot to mention the bit where John steps on 'Sophie la giraffe' when he trying to sneak about the house was hilarious, I've done exactly the same thing many times.
Good episode, although I felt like Oona Chaplin's story was incredibly brief and fairly empty, there was very little to it other than setting up the final part of the episode, and it didn't really explore the concept all that well. It boiled down to (spoilers)
Yes, the idea is horrifying, but so little time is spent on it and it's not fleshed out at all, that it's essentially nothing but a set up. I don't even know why they say that Oona Chaplin is "starring" in this, to be honest. I could have done with a little more time spent
The first segment, while also a little shorter, at least had a real arc to it and an interesting payoff. The story started off in one way, and took an interesting turn. There was no twist in the second story, it just was and then it was over.
Rafe Spall was fantastic in this. John Hamm is too John Hamm to be anything but John Hamm, so that took me out of it a little bit, but I guess that sort of suits his persona in the episode a little bit. Still, while the first two stories were fairly brief the last made up for it. Good watch.
"You're a copy of you, now go control the house"
"I don't want to"
(three weeks pass)
"I still don't want to"
(six months pass)
"Okay I'll do it"
The end.
"I don't want to"
(three weeks pass)
"I still don't want to"
(six months pass)
"Okay I'll do it"
The end.
Yes, the idea is horrifying, but so little time is spent on it and it's not fleshed out at all, that it's essentially nothing but a set up. I don't even know why they say that Oona Chaplin is "starring" in this, to be honest. I could have done with a little more time spent
with the copy to see any sort of development, to explore what that life would be like. We see none of her torment or torture, I kept expecting her to resent the "real" her and maybe try and fight back, but it pretty much ended as soon as it started. There was no real journey to it.
Rafe Spall was fantastic in this. John Hamm is too John Hamm to be anything but John Hamm, so that took me out of it a little bit, but I guess that sort of suits his persona in the episode a little bit. Still, while the first two stories were fairly brief the last made up for it. Good watch.
Really enjoyed that, though I thought the last segment was going to go a different way...
That ending was rough. Great stuff.
After learning the truth about his 'daughter', and becoming severely unhinged by it, he decides to block her, just to keep the illusion going. This was the only way he had managed to know her for years.
That ending was rough. Great stuff.
She was a bitch.
Not only did she cheat on him, but she gave him no explanation and walked out.
I dont think there supposed to be realistic or necessarily make sense. There satirical over exaggerations of what reality is or might be.
The Entire History of You.
Thanks
You have to see White Bear, it's one of my favourites.
SO what is released? season 1, 2 and the christmas special? When is series 3?
Of season 1, I liked 15 Million merits>national anthem>>>>>>>>The Entire History of You
The Entire History of you was a big whole mess, the characters, motivations and etc was bad. It was my least favorite.
EDIT: No wonder, it was the only one not written by Charlie Brooker.
Of season 1, I liked 15 Million merits>national anthem>>>>>>>>The Entire History of You
The Entire History of you was a big whole mess, the characters, motivations and etc was bad. It was my least favorite.
EDIT: No wonder, it was the only one not written by Charlie Brooker.
I think I enjoyed maybe the first half of the episode the most. I thought the latter half was especially unbelievable and quite a bit illogical, and I thought the ending took a dive when Potter turned out to be highly unlikeable.
I also don't see the logic in
Eh, I found the guy more dickish tbh.
So, they both acted terribly.
"I want to see my daughter." Isn't it obvious? You have no daughter!
I also don't see the logic in
torturing a device that controls all of your household appliances (which the show suggests amounts to essentially being your entire house). She could flood the house, or start a fire, while locking you inside.
Eh, I found the guy more dickish tbh.
Sure, she might offer an explanation of perhaps why she doesn't want a child but if she doesn't want one, she doesn't want one. He had no reason to be that angry.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
Hearing it ad infinitum for the past 38 years already ruined it for me!
Especially when I used to work in retail
jellies_two
Member
now see what not reading off-topic closely (or at all) gets me.
I almost missed out on not knowing this was a thing. Watched 5 minutes of the first episode and can tell instantly I need to see all of it.
I almost missed out on not knowing this was a thing. Watched 5 minutes of the first episode and can tell instantly I need to see all of it.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I interpreted it as she was already pregnant by that other guy and didn't want to own up to her infidelity. That's why she kept him blocked for all that time.
There's nothing quite like working in retail to ruin Christmas.
Man, that was a depressing way to spend an hour.
I saw most of the twists coming but jesus christ.
I saw most of the twists coming but jesus christ.
Are you serious? They talked about the issue for a couple of minutes and then she decided to never talk with him again. She clearly was the worst, i don't see how is this even an argument.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Agreed. He clearly had issues, but she used the block to cover her guilt over
the affair/ the baby's father. Although he does go mad, he is driven to it by the behaviour of others.
I enjoyed the episode - Hamm and Spall were fantastic, so was Natalia Tena - but it felt too unfocused. It was three stories with none ever quite nailing it. It is the complete opposite of the PM pig episode.
I presumed she knew it was that other guy's baby - the affair was mostly obvious from the scene at the karaoke. It was more him calling her a bitch that I found unlikeable.
I guess she might have blocked him even if they hadn't had that argument.
I think the point I meant to make was that the way he acted made me dislike him as a character, so I ended up not feeling terribly bad for him when she blocked him (which is of course quite different from what I did say).
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Oh man these impressions are all over the place. It seems some of you loved it whilst others were underwhelmed. I'm super curious to see this now. It aired a little too late last night to watch since I'd been up for something like 22 hours at that point and was super tired but I have the episode recorded in HD and ready to watch. I'm going to give it a shot later.
I will definitely be reporting back with impressions! Sounds like it's definitely going to be an interesting watch. Though potentially also a harrowing one.
On another note I hope this special means Black Mirror S3 is happening next year. It's one of my favourite shows. There's just nothing else like it. Hope it continues.
I will definitely be reporting back with impressions! Sounds like it's definitely going to be an interesting watch. Though potentially also a harrowing one.
On another note I hope this special means Black Mirror S3 is happening next year. It's one of my favourite shows. There's just nothing else like it. Hope it continues.
Best episode yet. Though I have one issue with it:
I think that there should have been a scene of Rafe Spall's character going to see Beth's dad to ask her to unblock him. The throwaway line that he didn't like him seemed a bit ropey to me. It had been five years and he hadn't sought him out once - the grandfather of his 'own' child.
BertramCooper
Banned
FUCKING AWESOME.
I love this show so fucking much.
I love this show so fucking much.
Sure she could do that.....but
the threat of being forever trapped in that white room with nothing to do is good enough motivation for her not to. Considering the normal rules of reality don't apply to her she can't assume suicide is an out as it would be in the real world.
Pretty much.
I kind of love how many varying opinions there are on this show from episode to episode.
I love all the episodes, some more than others, but they're all incredibly well thought out and made imo, each tend to serve their own purpose and I guess that's what loses some people in the end.
Really hoping series three next year aren't just rumours!
Didn't he say he'd written to him constantly with no results?
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Had a bit more time to think on it. Thematically the episode was definitely all over the place. Would have been better as a three-part series to allow teh different concepts to breathe.
Part 1 was fantastic,
.
Part 2 was interesting in principle but is rushed through and seems there only to service
. The scenes
The final part was utterly compelling. Rafe Spall was superb, and the whole concept of
was horrifying.
Part 1 was fantastic,
a brilliant futuristic twist on PUA, whilst the audience element seemed sinister and natural
Part 2 was interesting in principle but is rushed through and seems there only to service
the twist at the end, rather than explore the concept in earnest
of Oona Chaplin in the white room were a bit bad and reminded me of amateur dramatics.
The final part was utterly compelling. Rafe Spall was superb, and the whole concept of
blocking as a punishment
BertramCooper
Banned
It seems like something they could potentially flesh out into a full episode - a spinoff/sequel of sorts from this episode.
I hope they do because I think it's an interesting concept.
dapperbandit
Banned
I liked it but the premise of the Cookie felt a bit stretched to me, in a few places.
Little things that niggle me but I enjoyed it. Out of all of the three stories I think the first had the best concept though.
The show asks us to believe that people would get a brain implant so that household appliances would pamper them by doing things exactly how they want.
The show expects us to sympathize with the persona trapped in a cookie, but doesn't expect the same from the show's characters. Except Joe Potter, who incidentally has a cookie. I feel they should have explained that; did he not know he had it, does everyone have them the same way everyone has the eye thing?
As a few people have pointed out, how is using a program that thinks and feels useful in any way for it's intended purpose? That Hamm's character has to "break" a cookie into compliance in the first place seems a flawed concept.
Little things that niggle me but I enjoyed it. Out of all of the three stories I think the first had the best concept though.
TrumanBurbank
Member
Jon Hamm rocks. Worth watching for him alone.
I'm not sure you completely understood a couple of things.
A cookie isn't a brain implant. It's a copy of you. It's simply your brain converted to digital form. Since it's just a copy of a person, the universe doesn't treat it like a person, merely a program, so it can be tasked to do menial things like look after your house. Of course there's some resistance against this because who wants their life to be nothing but work? The advantage of using a cookie rather than simple software is that the cookie is you. It knows exactly the same things you know so it knows what you want when you want it.
When it comes to the interrogation, you can't think of it like they were breaking a cookie, because a cookie is a copy of the real thing. They were breaking the real Joe. Just as how the woman didn't realise she was a cookie, Joe had not reason to suspect he was. because he'd been placed in a believable reality. Because he was a cookie they could manipulate him in ways they couldn't manipulate real Joe, on a timescale that is simply impossible in reality. As Hamm said, a 70 minute interrogation was really 5 years. The characters in this universe have no concern about doing this because to them, a cookie is simply a computer program. Why would it have any rights? It's a nothing more than a tool and that's exactly how they treat them in the world of Black Mirror.
It's completely callous to do what they were doing knowing that from the perspective of the cookie they were still themselves, but that's what Black Mirror is all about.
When it comes to the interrogation, you can't think of it like they were breaking a cookie, because a cookie is a copy of the real thing. They were breaking the real Joe. Just as how the woman didn't realise she was a cookie, Joe had not reason to suspect he was. because he'd been placed in a believable reality. Because he was a cookie they could manipulate him in ways they couldn't manipulate real Joe, on a timescale that is simply impossible in reality. As Hamm said, a 70 minute interrogation was really 5 years. The characters in this universe have no concern about doing this because to them, a cookie is simply a computer program. Why would it have any rights? It's a nothing more than a tool and that's exactly how they treat them in the world of Black Mirror.
It's completely callous to do what they were doing knowing that from the perspective of the cookie they were still themselves, but that's what Black Mirror is all about.
Messofanego
Banned
There's a lot of
. Very nightmarish.
It's funny how that relationship service is kind of already current. "Privacy is dead" and all that. Like a week ago, me and 7000-9000 viewers (heard about this because Phil Kollar of Polygon tweeted about it) watched two teenagers on a live date while they were playing World of Warcraft. They were in the know and for some reason wanted this public, but definitely didn't realise how many people would tune in. It was like next gen dating. Voyeuristic yet weirdly endearing as you got to see both get awkward and turn to their chat commenters on how to go about it. After the date was over, the girl was especially nervous after hearing how many people were watching.
The connections to White Bear is interesting as both these episodes are about
gone a bit more cruel and sadistic. The whole theme is that empathy and second chances might be better than just the end all of
. It makes me think of current (and past) society's attitudes has been for a while on a vigilante justice thing where it's less about reformation especially when traumatic events happen where the general public becomes a bit more vengeful. I've linked this before, but Zimbardo's 1998 review of the 25 Years After the Stanford Prison Experiment is still relevant as how prison systems and social attitudes are in line with each other.
Anyway, I loved it to bits and was cool to hear Charlie Brooker, the producer, and director analyse the episode in the Q&A to show how layered it all is with little details to make it suitable for replays (every past episode is referenced) and how sometimes Brooker's ideas get toned down. He kind of starts each episode's concept as a joke that gets more serious and is then played completely straight to get the satire out of it.
prison of the mind stuff here with the self-conscious AI and the final looping scene
It's funny how that relationship service is kind of already current. "Privacy is dead" and all that. Like a week ago, me and 7000-9000 viewers (heard about this because Phil Kollar of Polygon tweeted about it) watched two teenagers on a live date while they were playing World of Warcraft. They were in the know and for some reason wanted this public, but definitely didn't realise how many people would tune in. It was like next gen dating. Voyeuristic yet weirdly endearing as you got to see both get awkward and turn to their chat commenters on how to go about it. After the date was over, the girl was especially nervous after hearing how many people were watching.
The connections to White Bear is interesting as both these episodes are about
criminal punishment
block register
Anyway, I loved it to bits and was cool to hear Charlie Brooker, the producer, and director analyse the episode in the Q&A to show how layered it all is with little details to make it suitable for replays (every past episode is referenced) and how sometimes Brooker's ideas get toned down. He kind of starts each episode's concept as a joke that gets more serious and is then played completely straight to get the satire out of it.
JimiNutz
Banned
I don't use Facebook, Twitter etc. and sometimes feel like maybe I'm missing out.
Then I watch stuff like this and remember why it doesn't really appeal to me.
I know these are entirely fiction and not necessarily an accurate reflection of our future but a lot of the ideas and messages in these episodes are still relevant today with our current technology.
Honestly, just watch them all. Each episode is totally different, and they are all worth seeing.
Totally agree. Didn't think they went into enough detail with her story at all. It worked in that it showed John Hamm's character to be a sleazy, cruel, manipulator, but I wanted to see more behind the reasons why Oona Chaplin's character chose to make that cookie, or what it was like for the cookie afterwards. Thought exactly the same thing with amateur dramatics too (although aside from that, the acting was all very good)
Also saw
the affair coming from the moment the woman was sat on the other guys knee at the karaoke, and given that the guy wasn't white, it was kind of obvious what the twist would be with the kid at the end.
Still, it was a really good episode, just felt like it could have been fleshed out a bit more
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Finally watched it. Fucking fantastic. Quite possibly my favourite episode of this show ever and that's saying a lot because I adored the previous episodes. It was compelling, gripping and unlike others I didn't see any of the twists coming. That probably increased my enjoyment of it ten times over. Both of the primary actors gave great performances too, especially John Hamm.
I knew this was going to be good since the quality level is so high in the previous episodes but damn was this good. Regarding the twists the only inkling I had was that
So yeah the one twist I thought I guessed I got completely incorrect. I think if the twists surprise you you're just wowed by this episode like I was. It was such good television. I also agree that some of the concepts are absolutely horrifying. The first thing I did whilst watching was imagine myself in the various scenarios for example
And my god it's just nightmare fuel. But in a chilling good way.
The only criticism I have is actually kind of a positive; that there's just not enough episodes of this amazing, amazing show. Three episodes per season (and only two seasons) and then a one-off special is just vastly insufficient. I hope to God we get a season 3.
Fake edit after a quick Google search: apparently we are getting a season 3 next year!
I knew this was going to be good since the quality level is so high in the previous episodes but damn was this good. Regarding the twists the only inkling I had was that
when the dark haired girl saw the PUA talking to himself she would "bust" him and be aware of this PUA club he was part of and then seek retribution because of that. Her being attracted to him because she thought he was mental like her I absolutely did not see coming.
So yeah the one twist I thought I guessed I got completely incorrect. I think if the twists surprise you you're just wowed by this episode like I was. It was such good television. I also agree that some of the concepts are absolutely horrifying. The first thing I did whilst watching was imagine myself in the various scenarios for example
being copied as a computer program and being imprisoned and also being blocked by my pregnant girlfriend and then blocked by everyone at the end.
The only criticism I have is actually kind of a positive; that there's just not enough episodes of this amazing, amazing show. Three episodes per season (and only two seasons) and then a one-off special is just vastly insufficient. I hope to God we get a season 3.
Fake edit after a quick Google search: apparently we are getting a season 3 next year!
Dirtyshubb
Member
Got round to watching this last night, god damn was that messed up!
I had actually guessed that
but it didnt take away anything from the show as the subject matter was so powerful.
Overall amazing though, huge fan of Brooker and cant wait to see what he does next.
I had actually guessed that
He was being interrogated for his crime and that the child was not white
There were a tonne of tragic moments in this, the guy dying on the date, the cookie being broken into submission, being blocked by the girlfriend and of course the whole reveal of the child not being his, the 1.5 million years the cookie must have spent in the house.
But that ending was horrific, not only being blocked by everyone but them all knowing that you are on the offenders list. Sad part is I could imagine this sort of thing happening in the UK, especially with how paedophile crazy the papers are.
But that ending was horrific, not only being blocked by everyone but them all knowing that you are on the offenders list. Sad part is I could imagine this sort of thing happening in the UK, especially with how paedophile crazy the papers are.
Overall amazing though, huge fan of Brooker and cant wait to see what he does next.
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