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Sure, but you can do that before a trip.
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Cheap Gas bad for Electric Car Adoption
- Thread starter Cyber Caesar
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Sure, but you can do that before a trip.
Completely agreed. I'm am definitely not against EVs in any way. I'd love to be able to jump on board and do believe as the tech matures, it will be the future.
It just doesn't make sense for my family either practically or economically right now. Maybe if they can give me a 400 mile range or give me a way to recharge (or swap out) a 250 mile range battery quickly, it would make sense. But it just doesn't right now in my situation.
valkillmore
Member
Plenty of time to adopt electric cars on a mass scale. Cheap gas is still more expensive than the power usage to charge a battery, and batteries are only going to get more efficient, and at a faster rate than traditional fuel cars can improve their efficiency.
I welcome our green future with open arms. And I'd love to get a Tesla in a few years when I intend on shopping for a new car.
I welcome our green future with open arms. And I'd love to get a Tesla in a few years when I intend on shopping for a new car.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
What are you doing on a daily basis where you need a 400 mile range?
If you read my previous posts in the thread, I take regular trips about a dozen times per year making an EV not practical for me due to range and/or recharge time.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Why does Obama look like a straight villain in that photo?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Other thing: Georgia has the second highest amount of electric cars. And their electric car rebate just expired.
Nope, we need more rebates.
Nope, we need more rebates.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Just checked out Tesla's dealership/charging station map. There's not a single seller in the whole state, and the closest charging station to me is in another state. And the closest service station is a 2 hour drive. So yeah, definitely not in the market for a Tesla any time soon.
AstroNut325
Member
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Yup, meaning 20% is Rural. 1 out of 5 is not the 'exception'. It's a sizable population that should be considered.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Plug in crossovers are in development, so look for news during autoshows this winter/spring.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
I can't wait to own an EV personally.
Owning a house and living by other people sure has its perks!
Hell my work even has dedicated EV parking with chargers.
Owning a house and living by other people sure has its perks!
Hell my work even has dedicated EV parking with chargers.
yeah I do all(or about 90%) of my charging at the various places I have worked. Though its much cheaper to charge at home. Both are cheaper than gas though.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Basically this.
I'm for the idea, but the tech for me isn't totally there yet.
It's also worth noting on my 2014 car I got free included maintainence for 2 years, and in general I have half the scheduled maintenance on my new car compared to my old. For example 10k vs 5k between oil.
I paid 16.5 out the door tax tag ect... included in my Corolla. I get roughly 38/29 gas wise, and a full tank is 400 miles.
I'm interested cause my SO is gonna be in the market for a car probably around this time next year. I just can't make the #s work for us yet.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Cheaper to charge at home? Does your work meter your usage and charge you for the charge?
My work does it for free as an encouragement to be green (tech company).
Not sure how most employers incorporate this as I have been with this place for many years so I haven't seen how other places handle EV charging.
AstroNut325
Member
Does your SO's car need to travel 200+ miles in a single trip once a month?
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Your only getting that on the Tesla.
We live in GA, and we heavily considered the Leaf as that's what everyone got (I'll spare the math) causr if you leased it you could get it for virtually nothing if you had the cash up front due to rebates/tax credits.
You aren't getting the Tesla like mileage on vehicles like the Leaf or Volt.
*I'm talking pure EV not hybrid.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
What would you be beta testing at a 20-30K price point?
Just looked it up, man that is a great deal. Only available in Cali, Wash. & Maryland. So I'm out of luck.
I really want to lease an EV now then own when the Bolt/Model 3 is available. With a baby on the way in the next couple of months, I really would like to go 4 door and EV at the same time.
Current fuel prices are not a concern for me even in Houston, Tx. The price per gallon would have to go down to $1.35 to match most EVs price/efficiency.
Current selection in Houston is weak as well. Only the Leaf, Volt, and i3 are readily available here. The end of the year is close to the new model years for the Leaf and Volt with longer battery range but release into Texas will be slow. I would lease either of the new model years in a heartbeat right now. The Soul EV is available but nearest dealer with inventory is 173 miles away.
Also,I consider the Leaf and Volt because of complimentary charging for 2 years at all EVGO stations. This is a nice advantage. There's no offer for the i3 or Soul.
I may just end up leasing the 2015 Leaf.
Current fuel prices are not a concern for me even in Houston, Tx. The price per gallon would have to go down to $1.35 to match most EVs price/efficiency.
Current selection in Houston is weak as well. Only the Leaf, Volt, and i3 are readily available here. The end of the year is close to the new model years for the Leaf and Volt with longer battery range but release into Texas will be slow. I would lease either of the new model years in a heartbeat right now. The Soul EV is available but nearest dealer with inventory is 173 miles away.
Also,I consider the Leaf and Volt because of complimentary charging for 2 years at all EVGO stations. This is a nice advantage. There's no offer for the i3 or Soul.
I may just end up leasing the 2015 Leaf.
PeskyToaster
Member
Just get me a driverless one I want to sleep on the way to work
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Self driving cars will be the norm in any new car in probably five years, however local regulations will vary.
Hybrids are going to be a stop gap honestly. It's not going to be worth the cost of having the best of the EV and stick a giant combustion engine in a car, you'll either see full EV's or really high mpg ICE cars in 10 years.
Yeah both at large "Tech" companies in the Bay Area. Through Chargepoint. When I first got back to my current employer(Disney owned) as a rehire a few weeks ago, they had just installed the stations. And they where free. Last week they just added the employee connections and they are now 0.30/kwh for first 4 hours. And the 5 dollars an hour after that. people started switching to the L1 wall outlets, and they just padlocked those today. My previous employer in Silicon Valley, it was $1/hour for the first 4 hours , and then $5/hour after that.
If using charge stations just at work, then I spend about 3-4 dollars a day. I can charge at home, but its not easy. I share a drive way with a neighbor, so I gotta be lucky there, and then I have to take a screen off a window to get to the outlet. I got a free $500 L2 home charge stations from Bosch(Chevy promotion) but I dont want to install it here, and don't really have a goods place to put it.
you can do that with every EV as far as I know. L1 charging. If you are talking about regular wall outlets.
When leasing, usually the dealership takes the federal tax credit. Thats what Chevy did with mine, and they mark down the car accordingly. I only had access to the State rebate of 2,500. But yeah make sure you figure out those details before leasing the car, so you aren't surprised.
lachesis
Member
Well, when my lease of BMW 320 xdrive is up in early 2017, I'm looking into getting a electric car. Depending on 7500 federal tax credit is still available then, I might consider getting a new one.
One I'm looking for is a daily commuter that's somewhat luxurious, and feature AWD - so I'm looking into Tesla, but it's way over my budget.
Hopefully Model 3 would be widely available, but chances of Tesla making it in time for March 2017 would be very slim at best I think - and even if Model 3 is available in 4th qtr of 2016, it would probably be all sold out for several months.
So I'm thinking about getting a used Tesla Model S, maybe something like 70D. (Then I would not get that tax credit, I guess..) Only problem is I really don't like large cars. My current 320 is pretty much the maximum I would like to go.
The reason for the EV would be strictly because of time & cost of my commute. NYC subway fare keeps jumping up, GWB toll/Bus keeps going up and even the mid-way parking that I use near by GWB to use public transportation is going up - it takes about 1 hour 15 min - 30 min (one way) to commute every freaking day. If I get a EV, or something that's over 45mpg, I could get decent discount on GWB toll, and my company has a decent parking lot deal that does $8 bucks per 12 hours in Manhattan - and it will only take 40 min average.
Even with petrol driven cars, I could car-pool over the bridge for even more discount - but with the hassle of carpooling near the bridge is somewhat of detour, as well as the price of gas that I'd be using during my mere 20 mile commute would add up, so I'd rather not do that.
It would cost me a bit more (like 20-30 bucks more per month), but it will save me at least an hour to maximum 2 hours every day on the road.
One I'm looking for is a daily commuter that's somewhat luxurious, and feature AWD - so I'm looking into Tesla, but it's way over my budget.
Hopefully Model 3 would be widely available, but chances of Tesla making it in time for March 2017 would be very slim at best I think - and even if Model 3 is available in 4th qtr of 2016, it would probably be all sold out for several months.So I'm thinking about getting a used Tesla Model S, maybe something like 70D. (Then I would not get that tax credit, I guess..
) Only problem is I really don't like large cars. My current 320 is pretty much the maximum I would like to go.The reason for the EV would be strictly because of time & cost of my commute. NYC subway fare keeps jumping up, GWB toll/Bus keeps going up and even the mid-way parking that I use near by GWB to use public transportation is going up - it takes about 1 hour 15 min - 30 min (one way) to commute every freaking day. If I get a EV, or something that's over 45mpg, I could get decent discount on GWB toll, and my company has a decent parking lot deal that does $8 bucks per 12 hours in Manhattan - and it will only take 40 min average.
Even with petrol driven cars, I could car-pool over the bridge for even more discount - but with the hassle of carpooling near the bridge is somewhat of detour, as well as the price of gas that I'd be using during my mere 20 mile commute would add up, so I'd rather not do that.
It would cost me a bit more (like 20-30 bucks more per month), but it will save me at least an hour to maximum 2 hours every day on the road.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Holy crap! That price is pretty high. Pretty much makes it on-par with a gas efficient vehicle. The companies you work for suck in regards to that policy. They are trying to profit off their employees being environmentally conscious. No need to have a graduated pricing scheme just to screw your own employees. They should sell at just above the rate they get charged for the electricity. This way they would be able to pay off the charging station installation in a few years.
Home charging would be the route to go for sure. It sucks your housing situation doesn't allow it.
yeah, at my current spot its actually about $2.50 a day, if I dont do any home charging. At the spot in Silicon Valley, it was closer to $3-4/day.
The graduated prices are there to get people off the charges so they aren't sitting on them all day, as there aren't enough chargers for all the EVs. But yeah it sucks, if you are stuck in a meeting or reviews, and cant get out to unplug before you hit the $5/hour rate.
DirtyManos
Member
It has to be fun to drive and good looking. Tesla needs to get it right with the model 3. I'd sooner bike that get a any of those hybrids available in the market like the prius.
lachesis
Member
That's good to know. Actually I was leasing my bmw, but I was thinking of buying a ev for a long term. Maybe not the best idea considering how technology evolve rather quickly though...
Anyhow, that Chevy Spark EV lease deal that was mentioned on earlier in this thread does sound very intriguing.
Perhaps I would get a cheapest EV available for interim - or maybe consider Chevy Bolt.. I wonder if 240v fast chargers are all interchangeable? (Tesla brand, BMW brand, etc?)
Duracelllll
Member
I've been looking for a Leaf for 1.5 years. where i live they are extremely rare and actually only got to test drive the first second hand one I've seen for sale last weekend (except it was sold the day before). 3 years old, sold for 30k (new 40k), warranty here is only 3 years and they wanted 3.5k extra for the 3 year extended warranty.
So for me, limiting factors are
- availability extremely low
- price. I think 15k-20k for a 3 year old car out of warranty is where the price should be at.
- possibly the boot space is too small for a pram but I need to check that out further as trying for a baby.
- live in a very hot climate and the lack of battery cooling is a significant concern as i have to park in the sun all day every day.
So for me, limiting factors are
- availability extremely low
- price. I think 15k-20k for a 3 year old car out of warranty is where the price should be at.
- possibly the boot space is too small for a pram but I need to check that out further as trying for a baby.
- live in a very hot climate and the lack of battery cooling is a significant concern as i have to park in the sun all day every day.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I'm pretty sure EV batteries perform better in hot climates than cold ones, so that shouldn't be a concern for you.
I would wait to see what the next generation Leaf is going to look like, a lot of 2nd generation EV cars are coming out in a year or two, so if you can hold out I think it will be worth it.
Warm Machine
Member
Next year the Chevy Bolt is supposed to be out and have a 200mi range. I wouldn't be surprised if the Nissan Leaf and Soul EV follow suit with that kind of range. Next car I get will be an EV. I no longer want to contribute to climate change through driving a gas vehicle.
Septimus Prime
Member
I'm considering it, but my wife and family are resistant to the idea.
One of the issues they bring up, which I don't think has been brought up in this thread is that if the car fails while you're out and about, you have very limited options for repair. With traditional cars, you can probably get AAA to tow you to a nearby repair shop, or they can even do a quick repair--like change a battery--on site. You can't really do this with an EV yet. It's a problem that will go away with higher adoption, but it's not an option right now.
One of the issues they bring up, which I don't think has been brought up in this thread is that if the car fails while you're out and about, you have very limited options for repair. With traditional cars, you can probably get AAA to tow you to a nearby repair shop, or they can even do a quick repair--like change a battery--on site. You can't really do this with an EV yet. It's a problem that will go away with higher adoption, but it's not an option right now.
The fast charging plug for Chevy is the SAE Combo. Its the standard plug for BMW, GM, VW, and other carmakers. Its just an altered standard L2 EV plug. Nissan uses the same L2 plug, but their fast charging L3 plug is the Chadmo plug I believe.
Other than that I think Tesla is the only real outlier. They have their own standards and plugs. You can only charge at Tesla stations. So less charge stations in general for them. But less need as they have greater range obviously.
The 2016 Leaf will have a 30 kWh model rated at 107 miles (EPA). The regular is 24 kWh and rated at 84 miles for comparison.
Leafs are dull and ugly, but buyers and reviewers seem to like them, the reliability has been good and they have the nice stuff like remote heating/cooling of the cabin.
Yup, Chademo. Tesla also has a Chademo adapter, mostly for the European and especially the Japanese market.
And a 'cluster of at least 2,500' is considered urban.
Where do you live?! In the US 26K will get you a new Leaf, minus whatever little bonuses your state gives to alternative vehicle buyers.
The trunk space is pretty comparable to other small cars. What's a pram...? OH, are you in the UK? Maybe they're more expensive there. Anyway, google tells me it's a stroller, and my kid's stroller fits in there just fine.
The hot climate (wait... there are no hot climates in the UK. Australia, maybe?) will shorten your battery life, though. There's a battery replacement plan you can sign up for here but I don't know if it's an international thing. Maybe just lease it to be safe.
akachan ningen
Member
You need a house to charge these things. Not very convenient for us renters.
I have a 2014 leaf and it can do close to 100 miles on a full charge. Is it really rated that low...?
And they're not ugly...
Skellig Gra
Member
I have literally no way to charge one so I'm not getting one any time soon. I also don't think the tech is quite there yet so I'll let other people beta test them for another 5 years or something.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
EV's have little moving parts when compared to a combustion engine, if it just "stops working" something has gone horribly wrong and the car is beyond borked. You won't be going to the repair shop with an EV, which is part of the bonus of having no ICE.
??? You can use any standard wall outlet to slow charge them. As long as your cord can reach the car. There are also several thousands of charging stations across the country(depending on what country you are in and, yes not totally convenient for everyday charging.)
http://www.plugshare.com/
I rent, and I do just fine. But most of my employers have charging stations.
Septimus Prime
Member
Right. But that's the problem, too. If, say, the battery dies, you're done. Outside of a few specialty places, no one knows what to do about it to even diagnose that that's your problem. And then when they do find that, it's not like the AAA guy or repair shop can just drop in another battery; you'd have to get towed to a shop that specializes in EVs (or probably your particular EV).
Again, this problem goes away with wide adoption, but that's going to take some time.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Again, if the battery for your EV dies well before it's EoL date something has gone horribly wrong. The only equivalent to that is like having the entire engine blow up and expecting a mechanic to deal with it over the weekend, it's just not something you need to worry about for an EV, no more than you worry about your current car getting totaled and not knowing what to do in between now and getting a new vehicle.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/03/20150323-nissan.html
Leaf has a .01% failure rate for their battery back, it's failure rate is lower than a standard ICE engine.
Duracelllll
Member
Hmm, not really, unless you're talking very cold climates.
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss#Factors_Affecting_Battery_Capacity_Loss
I'd say the aging factor for the city I live in is about 1.3 - 1.4 unscaled judging on climate of other cities cross references in wikipedia.
Perth, Australia. Zero incentives of any kind. No leasing for Leaf through Nissan. Maybe some third party vendors but I haven't researched the cost. No battery replacement plan here either.
Still, I don't want to spend $30k, $20k I could go for, plus the fact only 1 for sale in the past 18 months in my city doesn't make things easier
Not interested in getting from another state, it's 1700 miles to the closest city, 2500 miles to Sydney. Shipping cost is $2k + flights to look at car etc, makes it not worth it (although I did buy my GTR from 3500 miles away a few years ago ) Only 2 used Nissan Leaf for sale in all of Australia. I also had a large solar system (7kW 27 panels) installed to support a future electric car We paid around $17K for our Leaf when we bought it last year. It was the prior year model with 7K miles. Even with gas so cheap, we still are basically driving for free. The gas and maintenance savings pay the monthly payment for us easily.
Best decision we've ever made lol We have 29K miles on it after just over a year.
Best decision we've ever made lol We have 29K miles on it after just over a year.
lunchtoast
Member
Isn't the tax credit based off your tax bill, so it only favors rich people? Someone making under 60k isn't going to receive the full 7.5k, or much at all.
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