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Chicago gay pride parade expels Star of David flags

Alo0oy

Banned
I don't think of them as such.

However I do know what would happen if they tried to have a LGBT parade in either place.

I don't disagree that Palestinians are oppressed. I don't think LGBT groups should take sides on this issue since one side is oppressed and anti LGBT and the other side is the oppresser and accepts LGBT.

"White people are more likely to be pro-LGBt/pro-women" is classic brogressive language that feuls white supremacy.

Look, when people are anti-colonialism or anti-racism, they don't pick and choose when to believe in those ideas. Those are universal ideas.
 

haimon

Member
Again what.

So now opposing occupation is like supporting the Westboro Baptist church?

Honestly why don't you just say what you really feel here.
I thought I did. I think that supporting people that are anti LGBT by LGBT groups is stupid.

There are better causes to work on in my opinion than supporting forming a state that will be anti lgbt for a LGBT group.

And I support a 2 state solution.
 
I thought I did. I think that supporting people that are anti LGBT by LGBT groups is stupid.

There are better causes to work on in my opinion than supporting forming a state that will be anti lgbt for a LGBT group.

And I support a 2 state solution.

...

You certainly don't sound like you support a 2 state solution
 

haimon

Member
...

You certainly don't sound like you support a 2 state solution
I most definitely do. I oppose Bibi and support peace with the Palestinians.

Israel does many bad things. Terrible things.

But Israel also does great things.

But we also know that in fatah and Hamas controlled areas what LGBT rights are.

This isn't pink washing. I am not saying Israel is always in the right. I am saying that while Israel is wrong with how it treats palestinians it doesn't make sense for me for LGBT to b championing for something that is against them.
 
I most definitely do. I oppose Bibi and support peace with the Palestinians.

Israel does many bad things. Terrible things.

But Israel also does great things.

But we also know that in fatah and Hamas controlled areas what LGBT rights are.

This isn't pink washing. I am not saying Israel is always in the right. I am saying that while Israel is wrong with how it treats palestinians it doesn't make sense for me for LGBT to b championing for something that is against them.

This is literally pink washing... Like literally.


How do the Palestinians governing body treat LGBT?

I mean by this logic Queer folk should endorse, or at least not oppose, a genocide of all Americans (including the LGBT ones) because their government is anti-LGBT...

You shouldn't oppose genocide because the genociders are LGBT friendly, this is literally what you are saying.
 

haimon

Member
This is literally pink washing... Like literally.

You shouldn't oppose genocide because the genociders are LGBT friendly, this is literally what you are saying.
Ok.

I thought pink washing was something else.

While I don't agree that Israel is committing genocide, I will accept that I am pink washing.

Doesn't change the truth though.
 
Yeah you totally sound like you support a two state solution

Give me a break

I totally buy that they support a two-state solution, as such a solution would imply that Israel has fair claim to the land they stole from Palestine. The Zionist that got kicked out of the event for her anti-Palestinian rhetoric also claims to support a two-state solution.
 

haimon

Member
I totally buy that they support a two-state solution, as such a solution would imply that Israel has fair claim to the land they stole from Palestine. The Zionist that got kicked out of the event for her anti-Palestinian rhetoric also claims to support a two-state solution.
If only there were nuance...

I want to take out almost all settelemtns and make Jerusalem an international city that is not a capital for either state.

But you already knew that didn't you.


Edit:Zionism is support for a Jewish Homeland.
 
If only there were nuance...

I want to take out almost all settelemtns and make Jerusalem an international city that is not a capital for either state.

But you already knew that didn't you.


Edit:Zionism is support for a Jewish Homeland.

If only there were nuance, says the person who wants LGBT organizations to cease their solidarity with the oppressed people of Palestine.

Richard Spencer fights for America to become a white ethno-state. Should he get it? Should the people who support the acquisition of said white ethno-state have their genocidal aims overlooked? Or, should it be condemned for the settler colonialism that it is?

Edit: Obviously, if creating a Jewish homeland requires displacing, oppressing, and erasing an existing population to achieve it, then yes, it should be condemned.
 

falastini

Member
So a pro-Zionist group... goes to a rally that's pro-Palestinian... proceeds to disrupt the rally... gets called out on it... gets booted... then proceeds to cry to the media about antisemitism. Then we have a bunch of people, including this very thread, arguing that very point.



Here is the account of the Jewish Voice for Peace.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VG2cPkufLCFVSv4DmvRbOSQnzMdUt7so8AlrQHcXSyA/pub

Some choice quotes.
On Saturday at the Chicago Dyke March, a small number of members and staff of A Wider Bridge challenged the inclusion of Palestinian human rights as an issue supported by Chicago Dyke March. A Wider Bridge has the explicit purpose of “building a movement of pro-Israel LGBTQ people and allies.” “Pro-Israel,” for a Wider Bridge, has included organizing war rallies cheering on the Israeli military during the massacre of civilians in Gaza in August 2014 and partnering with Israeli consulates in the US in organizing pinkwashing propaganda tours.

The A Wider Bridge contingent loudly encouraged fellow participants to erase mentions of Palestine during solidarity chants. When Palestinian attendees approached them, they became hostile while expressing explicit support for Zionism, which was one of the ideologies that march organizers had disavowed because it has led to decades of displacement and violence against Palestinians.

Many other Jews, including members of Jewish Voice for Peace-Chicago, were present at Dyke March wearing Jewish symbols, including Stars of David, t-shirts with Hebrew, kippot, and sashes with Yiddish script, and none of them were asked to leave the event, interrogated about their politics, or were the target of any complaints because of their visible Jewish presence.

This is a non-story.
 
Here's the account of a Palestinian marcher who was threatened by the Zionist flag-bearers:

The media coverage surrounding the events at this year’s Dyke March has reminded me that Palestinian voices rarely, if ever, are solicited and our narratives must be co-opted by allies to lend legitimacy to our experiences. As I read all of the articles coming out, I see no Palestinian voices given a platform to express our experiences. Instead, we are these elusive lines, lightly mentioned as those who felt unsafe. Though not one sentence was written about how our experience as victims of Zionism leads us to feel unsafe. As a queer Palestinian woman who was present at Dyke March on June 24, I want to offer my story to defend the actions that Dyke March Collective took to fight racism and create safe space for queer Palestinians.

The first time I saw the rainbow flag with the blue Star of David was at Tel Aviv Pride in 2011. I was in Tel Aviv to grab the bus to Haifa to meet my uncle, who would then drive me to our small village in the heart of Galilee. As usual, the bus was full with Israeli soldiers wearing their military uniforms, with their automatic rifles slung over their shoulders. I took the only seat available to me, and spent the next 3 hours with the cold steel butt of a worn M-16 periodically rubbing against my exposed arm. Quietly paralyzed in fear each time it brushed against me.

I am a Palestinian citizen of Israel currently living in the United States. My family has suffered for 80 years under the rule of Zionist militias and political administrations. From al-Nakba, when Zionist forces massacred our youth in front of our village Church and forcibly exiled my family members to Lebanon; to the internment camps used against Palestinian citizens of Israel fighting to keep their farm lands; to the ongoing occupation of East Jerusalem; my family has survived many faces of Zionism
.
My Palestinian identity weighs heavy as I attempt to navigate this world that has watched our ethnic cleansing and dispossession. Since coming out a year ago, I have found that embracing my queerness has constructed a new prison for me to sit in. As I kiss my partner, my throat lumps up thinking about if they will find out—“they”— being the Israeli government. The Israeli government likes to position itself as a beacon for queer rights in the Middle East. Yet it is known for using Palestinians’ queerness against us and our liberation.

My worries swirl through my thoughts, as I am with her: Perhaps first they will approach me with threats of exposing my truth to convince me to inform on my family. If I refuse, maybe they will go to my uncles who are afraid of what others will think. Maybe Israel will hold me in their prisons on undisclosed charges until I am broken and I give in to their wishes. Or maybe they will just say I am a collaborator, and sentence me to death within my own community. And then maybe they will use my limp body to proclaim the greatness of their liberal Zionist “democracy” that is such a safe haven for us queers.

When I saw marchers with Israeli Pride flag on June 24, I remembered that bus ride, and I no longer felt safe. After we arrived at Piotrowski Park, a friend and I approached the marchers carrying this flag to ask them what the intent was behind it. During the conversation, the marchers who brought the flags expressed support for Zionism, and in response, we, queer Palestinians asserted that Zionism is racism, and that racism has no space in radical queer liberation movements. In response to our criticism of their presence at this march, I was personally threatened by a transgender Zionist, who lowered her voice to a masculine tone and threatened to use her “man voice” to put me in my place. The Zionist marchers then began to accuse us of anti-Semitism, at which point Dyke March organizers became involved and began to engage the Zionist marchers in conversation. At this point, my friends and I left the situation. Two hours later, after an extended conversation with a variety of Jewish anti-Zionist and allied Dyke March organizers, during which the organizers made clear that the march is a pro-Palestine and anti-Zionist one, the Zionist marchers folded up their flags and left.

Charges of anti-Semitism are a historic tool used to silence Palestinian organizing efforts, to delegitimize our suffering, and to move the conversation away from our fight for liberation. What truly pains me is that a triumphant moment in Chicago’s Dyke March history to reject the presence of all forms of racism has been transformed into a false attack on Judaic communities.

The full narrative of what happened that day, as articulated by the Dyke March organizers and other supporting organizations, was omitted from the public record. Instead, the narrative was framed entirely by a representative of A Wider Bridge, who was one of the individuals who brought the flag. The two-hour conversations regarding Zionism and the origin of their flag in queer Israeli movements was also not acknowledged. In recounting Saturday’s events, these individuals disregarded our concerns about the history of their flag and how it continues to oppress Palestinians, specifically queer members such as myself.

The fears I associate with the Israeli Pride Flag are real. You cannot erase the violence of Zionism against queer Palestinians by claiming that this is just a “Jewish flag,” effectively gas lighting Palestinians for associating the flag as a symbol of ethnic cleansing and occupation. You cannot cleanse this flag of its context and its continuous use in Israel to deny Palestinians of their rights.

Chicago Dyke March stood by queer Palestinians on Saturday in a radical act of resistance against normalization of Zionism within queer spaces. Their leadership acknowledged our pain upon being exposed to this flag, which reminds many of how our existence both as Palestinians and as queer people is under attack. This is the allyship we dream of! Those who cannot acknowledge the violence of Zionism are not our allies. And you are not our allies if you distort our actions against Zionism to reframe them in the false language of anti-Semitism to distract people from the truth of this moment.
 
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