These threads always seem to end up being about something other than the fact that you shouldn't leave loaded guns around with the safeties off. Guns are ridiculously dangerous and if you're crazy enough to want one in your home/car/whatever then make it so that someone can't just grab it and immediately shoot you with it.
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Child fatally shoots mother on highway
- Thread starter Ekdrm2d1
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I believe it's just as dangerous to transport a 2 and 1 y/o on a highway without a carseat. Completely irresponsible in every decision made.
Messofanego
Banned
RichiRamjag
Member
I never went near my dads guns because I knew I could shoot them at the range or ask him if I could see one. I was taught safety and until this day I won't handle a gun without removing the mag and racking the slide three times.
My son has been told pretty bluntly what would happen if he were to accidentally shoot someone while playing with a weapon. I've also let him handle a gun many a time. He is barely interested in them now. Of course it is still up to me to make sure that these weapons are properly stored and safely handled.
I don't like the idea that every kid is stupid. If you raise a kid to be a knucklehead who doesn't listen and can't understand death, then yeah, you definitely are better off not having guns anywhere near them. I remember my stepmother telling my dad she was worried I'd hit a bullet with a hammer. Even at 11, that was one of the dumbest things I had heard.
Of course 2 years old is way to young to expect them to know what to do exactly. The responsibility always falls on the gun owner despite the age of the child imo.
I don't agree with him calling your kid fake though and when it comes down to it, how you raise them is your choice.
Actually, after reading his posts again, I don't get them at all. My bad
Just as dangerous as allowing a child access to a loaded firearm? I get that it's not safe to have kids in the car like that, but one of those situations involves a child holding a machine designed to murder people and so I'm going to say that's the more dangerous of the two in this case. But yes, you should put your kids in car seats anyway.
Admit it. You're secretly a right wing NRA supporter that thinks Obummer is coming to take yer guns. We all know the truth here.
1- It's scary to know that there are parents out there who do not use seat belts/child seats for their kids. A 2 year old without a seat belt/child seat is not and should not be acceptable. That's negligence by the parents (assuming the kid didn't have a seat belt).
2-I read a comment earlier someone saying the kid should've been taught not to play with it. Excuse me but that's a big NO NO. We're talking about a 2 year old. Yes they are like sponges and take up a lot of information by trying things out and learning from it but a gun and the dangers of it is not something you want to instill on a 2 year old because they arent' mature enough to process something as dangerous. Kids, especially 2 year olds, are a lot of trial and error and some kids will make the same mistake over and over until they can fully grasp it. At the end of the day it's still a 2 year old child. You teach certain ''difficult'' subjects to kids gradually when they are capable of processing not instantaneously when they clearly are not. And kids learn these things automatically on their own when their minds start to evolve more and more. A 2 year old is not at that stage.
3-I am fairly certain that kid is going to learn that pretty soon. Poor kid. Hopefully he has loving and supporting people around him who can guide him through this and hopefully the kid will be able to mentally survive that battle.
Stuff like this never happens here. With proper laws a lot of lives could've been saved.
It's one thing if it's inevitable but stuff like this is just sickening because it could've been avoided.
2-I read a comment earlier someone saying the kid should've been taught not to play with it. Excuse me but that's a big NO NO. We're talking about a 2 year old. Yes they are like sponges and take up a lot of information by trying things out and learning from it but a gun and the dangers of it is not something you want to instill on a 2 year old because they arent' mature enough to process something as dangerous. Kids, especially 2 year olds, are a lot of trial and error and some kids will make the same mistake over and over until they can fully grasp it. At the end of the day it's still a 2 year old child. You teach certain ''difficult'' subjects to kids gradually when they are capable of processing not instantaneously when they clearly are not. And kids learn these things automatically on their own when their minds start to evolve more and more. A 2 year old is not at that stage.
3-I am fairly certain that kid is going to learn that pretty soon. Poor kid. Hopefully he has loving and supporting people around him who can guide him through this and hopefully the kid will be able to mentally survive that battle.
Stuff like this never happens here. With proper laws a lot of lives could've been saved.
It's one thing if it's inevitable but stuff like this is just sickening because it could've been avoided.
WTF so the kid planned on all this?! "I'm going to take off my seat belt, pick up this gun that is lying on the ground, and shoot my mom with it", like I get a 2 year old doesn't understand consequences but wow. Do real .40 caliber guns weigh as light as toy guns for a 2 year old to be able to operate it? Did this kid have toy guns that he liked to use and thought this one was a toy?
Why do we even have toy guns that look like real guns?
I'm against the idea of banning the mostly harmless toys. We should worry more about the availability of deadly weapons.
In Japan, there is a very large airsoft community, and people often carry them in public / use them in public parks, because the thought of a citizen obtaining an actual AK-47 is absurd.
I heard Jeff Gerstmann of Giant Bomb describing going through airport screening in Japan with an airsoft MP5. They took it out, looked at it for 2 seconds, put it in his bag and sent him onto the plane. A legal action with a harmless toy in a country that handles gun ownership responsibly.
RichiRamjag
Member
It depends on the gun.
My 380 is double action. When not cocked, you're looking at about 12lbs of pressure to pull that trigger. This is the case for revolvers as well. When cocked, you barely have to pull. Some striker fired guns such as Glocks are are fairly easy to pull trigger wise.
There are laws against most of this situation including the seating situation. This person chose not to follow any of them.
Laws mean little to those who don't follow them.
Bingo
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I don't think the mom gave a shit about proper laws considering her kids weren't strapped in and she was driving without a license
TheFuzz
Member
This. We can point to the gun even being there, sure. But this is a case of a negligent parent who endangered herself and her children in multiple ways. Someone like this is irresponsible and it frightens me there are parents like this.
Arrowgigantic
Member
I find it hard to believe that anyone with a kid would think that teaching a two year-old not to touch a gun would be considered a safety measure of any kind. It absolutely is not. It is quite frankly a wholly ridiculous proposition.
The only way to keep a kid from picking up a gun is to make sure the kid never has the opportunity to pick up a gun. Sliding a gun right into their field of vision is only slightly less dangerous than putting the gun in the kid's hand yourself, no matter what the kid has been taught. I wouldn't even trust this particular kid to not pick up a gun today.
RichiRamjag
Member
Had anyone say that teaching a 2 year old alone was enough? I don't think anyone thinks that this alone would be enough. Proper storage is the biggest factor despite the age.
Just because you disagree you don't need to call their kids fake. It makes you look like a toxic person and anything you say afterwards looks bitter. You don't need to be putting people down to get your point across and it's rather disrespectful to that poster that you call his son fake. You can tell his opinion is wrong or how you disagree with his views but there is no need belittle or offend people for it.
I thought there was? Wasn't that the reason why the NES Zapper had to be changed to orange even if the original didn't even look remotely like a real gun?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The same reason there was a gun rolling around on the floor of the car with a round chambered
The parents were grossly negligent.
Being a responsible gun owner is a complicated thing. I know many people who I would call "responsible" and they take multiple steps to ensure guns are safely kept in their house.
One of those steps is early education of their children.
I, personally, think guns should be banned... but that doesn't mean I can't see the obvious reasoning behind having education be a core tenant of gun safety, especially around children.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
The mother was violating many, many, laws, including the manner in which this pistol was being transported. Irresponsible parent in all facets WITH a loaded firearm in the immediate vicinity is the recipe for disaster.
Vincent Grayson
Member
For the same reason the other child wasn't. And the same reason the car was being driven by a woman with no license. Same reason the gun was under the seat, unsecured.
Because this woman was a bad mother, and it killed her.
TheFuzz
Member
Yep. It sounds awful but thankfully the children (who didn't know better) weren't killed. The child could have easily hurt himself.
Halcyon
Member
I don't even know what your argument is. You can do both things concerning gun safety, by keeping them away, and also teaching kids that they are bad and you shouldn't touch them. This would help if they were in a situation at someone else's place if they come across a gun.
The Shadow
Member
I know this is going to sound heartless, but...
The gun was just one of many risks they were taking with those kids.
Bad mother, bad boyfriend, bad grandma. That family was just doomed. You can only test "god's will" so much before shit happens.
The gun was just one of many risks they were taking with those kids.
Bad mother, bad boyfriend, bad grandma. That family was just doomed. You can only test "god's will" so much before shit happens.
Arrowgigantic
Member
I don't think anybody was saying it is enough, my beef is with the people who are saying it is anything at all. It's not. It's nothing. This is a person who will start singing the alphabet song in the middle of telling you what they want to drink. Do not think that anything you tell them has any real effect, especially in a life or death situation.
Arrowgigantic
Member
The idea that kids can be taught to not pick up guns is what is toxic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEH1nLoC_9c
Jag
Member
Absolutely agree with educating children since the gun they come into contact with may not even be your own.
I will reiterate that the only way to keep children 100% safe from guns (in your home/car) is not to have them no matter how responsible you are.
Yeah and totally validates your way to call someone's child fake because they disagree with you. /s
RichiRamjag
Member
I can't agree. Education at a young age shouldn't be relied on solely, but dismissing it entirely is bogus. I know you're a parent as well, and age is a factor, but for the most part, my child never got into things I told them not to get into. I expected it to be a lot worst than it was. I just don't think kids are as simple-minded as you make them out to be, maybe that was just your experience.
Agree, education is a huge factor. As someone who was educated at a young age about gun safety, it's followed me my entire life. Passed the same lessons on to my son.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Well, it's literally unbelievable to me. I mean, I'm aware that the possibility exists that somebody could be a parent and not learn how kids are, it just seems far less likely than the alternative: that someone is making up stuff to make guns not be the problem.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Thanks. So if I understand correctly, that means that the gun was either a type of gun that had a trigger easy enough for a kid to pull (probably more likely), or the gun was left cocked on top of being loaded (which I think is monumentally stupid but wouldn't be out of place with the mountain of stupidity that already makes up this case).
CrazyIvan1978
Member
The car seat is mentioned in the op though...
CrazyIvan1978
Member
Applaud.gif
Kids are different, so parents have different experiences teaching their kids. You shouldn't attack anyone who has had a different parenting experience than yourself, it makes you seem childish.
My son and many other kids that I know have no problem learning to avoid things, especially by example.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Agreed. My mother did the same to me and I stayed away from guns until I was an adult.
Sure that works in their culture, where as you said, it's absurd for people there to have guns, but in America that's not the case. The mindset here is different and plenty of kids have been shot while holding toy weapons. There's simply no good reason to have toy guns that look like real guns in a society that is flooded with real guns.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Kevlar seat backs is also a good rational option.
RichiRamjag
Member
Lol, what the heck is your problem? I have an 8 year old son, I've dealt with many children over the course of my life.
First you tell the other guy his kid is fake, then you respond with that? Get over yourself. Sorry that you may have done a poor job yourself and have a bad experience with child rearing. I'll just ignore your foolishness going forward.
Possibly. Even striker fired pistols should have a good amount of pull. The whole situation stinks after reading the story.
Mine threw my supersoakers in the trash for this reason.
You can go buy toy guns that are modeled after real actual gun models. At a small distance, they can be indistinguishable from the real thing. The only requirement is the small orange tip that is usually removed cuz it looks dumb to kids.
No, it depends on the weapon. Glocks for example have 5 lb triggers and can be modified to be lighter than that. A kid can easily pull more than 5 lbs. Some weapons don't have an ' external safety' that you select. For example glock pistols have a trigger safety that is disabled when you pull the trigger. It prevents most accidental discharges yet allows the shooter to quickly fire the weapon.
And no, you don't have to rack the slide first to fire a weapon. Most people, especially police, security, and military, carry with one round always in the chamber. So you draw your weapon and pull the trigger and it fires instead of wasting seconds racking the slide to chamber a round.
How does a trigger safety work? I'm confused. It's a safety that stops you from pulling the trigger but is deactivated by pulling the trigger?
RichiRamjag
Member
Small lever built into the trigger that needs to be engaged along with the trigger to actually pull it back all the way. When not engaged, it blocks the firing pin.
Google Glock trigger safety to get a better idea. Personally, I don't consider them truly all that useful compared to a traditional safety or even a grip safety.
Ah okay, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
"Best mother" and two year old not in a car seat and one year old up front don't go together.
The article says it was a .40 cal which is typically used in handguns. There are revolvers and carbines that are 40 cal but 40 was designed for handguns and the vast majority of 40 caliber guns are handguns.
If it was handgun, then not only was there rounds in the clip, but someone racked the gun. Meaning they pulled back the top of the gun, loading a round in the chamber, and pulling back the firing pin. Something that is definitely too difficult for a 2 year old.
The mountain continues to grow.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Yup. My friend gave me his old supersoaker when he got a new one. I enjoyed it for one afternoon until I took it home. Shit got tossed immediately lol.
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