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China locks Fire control radar on Japanese Ship

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Yeah I've worked in FCRs for over 10 yrs
Well....fuck.
I'll grant you airport radar isn't the greatest analogy, I was just trying to illustrate that "locking on" is merely tracking. It really depends on what kind of handover error your weapon system expects. My original point is still true though that almost all of the pointing these FCRs do is informational and not tactical. I wouldn't have a job otherwise. Not to mention a waste of money to have such a high fidelity radar sitting idle.



I suppose the problem then is interpretation, an Arleigh Burke, spiking a Type-45 in the atlantic isn't going to annoy the UK, it may just be for identification, but for PLAN and JSDF vessels in the area of disputed territory, the meaning is less clear.

Also entering into territory less in my own understanding, couldn't China have pushed more wattage through the radar than is usually erm, considered polite?

Or possibly simulated a SARH launch?
 
China would completely overwhelm Japan in a solo war, I'm surprised people are denying that. Unfortunately for china that would never happen due to treaties; I'm not even sure Russia would come to their aide if the US and other countries got involved.

I imagine we'll get saber rattling all year but nothing will happen. The costs of war to the global economy wouldn't justify an attack over some small islands. My only fear is that some accidental first shot could spark a short term conflict.

Dude, what? How on earth could you even think that's possible? Japan probably has the most credible navy in East Asia. China has close to zero power projection. They have no forward operating bases and their major cities lie within miles of the coastline...

All those Aegis guided missile Destroyers, helicopter destroyers, and other ships in the Japanese maritime self defense force aren't just for show. There's also a reason they call Japan an unsinkable aircraft carrier. Were a real war to develop, Japan would probably crush any Chinese attack as soon as it was underway.

China is a huge paper tiger. Few allies, little wartime experience, hostile with pretty much every neighboring country etc.

Not to mention Japan and the US would share intelligence and help.

Seriously read up on China's newly retrofitted decrepit 80's Soviet aircraft carrier and then read up on Japan's 4 in service Hyuga destroyers. They only call them helicopter carriers so that China and North Korea don't raise a fuss, but they can easily launch and carry fighter jets. In fact their next class of 'helicopter' carrier is also meant to make sure F-35 JSF can launch and land.

I just don't get how you can say China will overwhelm Japan and not say how? Right now, the only threat China poses to Japan is nuclear. And Japan is the worlds leading nuclear energy power, were they to get threatened with nukes, especially since they are the only country to have been nuclear bombed, you can bet they'll make 1000 nukes before the year is out.

And like I said, Japan only spends a pitiful amount of its GDP on military, we're it to raise them to NATO or global standards, they'd be spending almost as much as China per year.
 
Whoever has the islands has claim over the waters surrounding the islands. There is oil or gas (or both, can't remember) to be found in the sea there.

One of those wonderfully confluent situations where pride can be used to politicize the issue and keep support among citizens high, while the state and elite interests are served by rational/economic concerns which go unexamined in public discourse.
 
Aren't we still obliged to assist Japan if they are attacked? This seems like a very risky economic move for China as it will be swallowed whole by it's people if it's economy collapses. What the hell is China thinking?

I'm sure the US would back Japan in any altercation with China, they're very good allies with us.
 
China would completely overwhelm Japan in a solo war, I'm surprised people are denying that. Unfortunately for china that would never happen due to treaties; I'm not even sure Russia would come to their aide if the US and other countries got involved.

The SDF have advanced american weapons and equipment so I doubt it would be easy for China to beat Japan even if they didn't have the US backing them up. I just hope that both sides realize how pointless a real fight would be and choose compromise instead.
 
That's actually quite a relevant fear in Canada, and I'm guessing some Mexicans may think it as well. Even if it's only joking, there is always this feeling that Americans believe they could come and annex us if needed or muscle us around for resources. It doesn't help that Americans violate sovereignty when it comes to things like the Northwest Passage, sending nuclear subs through our waters without announcing it.

I mean history would have you believe different no? 54-40 or fight, the annexation of Mexican territories etc. Though it won't happen so aggressively. I'll bet some puppet like Harper would willingly sign Canada over under the guise of safety or security. Soon, American officers will have the ability to come across our borders and arrest suspects. No longer will they have to wait at the border because they have no authority. Plus, soon, everyone entering Canada will have this information shared with the US and likewise. It's still sounds ludicrous, but don't think Canadians and possibly Mexicans aren't hesitant to keep getting so cosy with the US.

America did take a bunch of land from Mexico in it's early years and try to take Canada as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the US claimed the Canadian Arctic once it melts a bit more.
 
I'm sure the US would back Japan in any altercation with China, they're very good allies with us.

Most Americans would favor intervention, most politicians and CEO's wouldn't want to bite the hand that's been feeding them. Though Japan does own as much debt as China I think.

If America didn't help Japan, it would almost certainly diminish US foreign influence. But with troops stationed in Okinawa, you can bet it's a guarantee.

Things are coming to a head this century, as much as we deny it, there's as much hate and itching for war in this century as there was in the last
 
Well....fuck.



I suppose the problem then is interpretation, an Arleigh Burke, spiking a Type-45 in the atlantic isn't going to annoy the UK, it may just be for identification, but for PLAN and JSDF vessels in the area of disputed territory, the meaning is less clear.

Also entering into territory less in my own understanding, couldn't China have pushed more wattage through the radar than is usually erm, considered polite?

Or possibly simulated a SARH launch?

Honestly its probably posturing on both sides. Any country is gonna use their radars to scan everything they can in a similar situation. If there was a real threat I'm not so sure you'd hear about it so quickly and I'm not sure the Chinese would be so obvious about it. Remember this is carefully crafted news story released by the Japanese military. That being said I wouldn't doubt the Chinese might do something crazy. It's hard to discern considering the source.
 
I don't think so. The U.S. has already stated that the defence pact with Japan applies here. China will never risk a naval war with the U.S. over this. Not to mention Japan itself is more than capable of holding it's own.

There would never actually be a naval war with the U.S..

People don't get that if a major foreign power engages in an unmistakable act of aggression towards a U.S. ally how the U.S. would truly react. They'd turn the offending party into cave people overnight. Long range ballistic missiles first, followed by intermediate artillery fired from far off shore naval vessels and kamikaze drones hitting key targets, then finished off with carpet bombing of all military and gov't. installations by jet.

Before a single U.S. solider steps foot on the ground they'd have all key installations reduced to rubble and the opposing military broken and in retreat.

The U.S. isn't spending 50 times more money per year on it's military than the next closest power just as a result of inflation and inefficiencies. They have rail guns mounted on naval vessels as burgeoning technology we all get to know about and see youtube videos of field testing for. If that isn't "top secret" just imagine what actually is.
 
Most Americans would favor intervention, most politicians and CEO's wouldn't want to bite the hand that's been feeding them. Though Japan does own as much debt as China I think.

who owns debt is not a thing our nation really worries about. #owncurrencyswag #suckitEU #sorrynotsorry
 
America did take a bunch of land from Mexico in it's early years and try to take Canada as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the US claimed the Canadian Arctic once it melts a bit more.

Surely you're referring to northern Alaska, right?
 
They're actually testing global resolve and influence. How does the world respond? How does the US respond etc.

They're making a huge mistake antagonizing Japan. Already their leaders have become "hawkish". You could start to see the "rising sun" flag be out more and more in citizens hands.

Japan devotes very little of it's GDP to military. Were they to kick it up to NATO recommended levels or global power levels, you'd see them easily spend around $70-$100 billion plus a year.

Also, factor in Japan is the world's leading nuclear energy producer, theoretically, they have enough enriched uranium and technical knowhow to build 1000 nukes in a month if they wanted to, they won't though.

China is on a very dangerous path these days. See, people claim they are a superpower, but they are not even close. A superpower is the world's eminent military, political, economic and cultural power. China isn't any of these things.

Politically, their closest allies are North Korea, Pakistan, Iran and Sudan.

Militarily, they are large and modernizing, but they have just put their first aircraft carrier through sea trials. It's an old 1980's Soviet-vessel. It still has not achieved the ability to manufacture it's own jet engines and get's them from Russia. China also has zero forward operating bases.

Economically, they are rising, but only at the behest of the rest of the world. It's nice to thump chests and burn Toyota's, quite another to have Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp, NEC, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Fujitsu, Honda, Nissan, Mazda and many more corporations pull out China and lay off it's workforce. China is still only an export/manufacture based economy, it's trying very hard to turn itself into an industrial and technology based economy, but it'll be tough. How much will global companies and firms invest in China if it goes to war with Japan?

Culturally, you'll see more people playing american football these days, tons of basketball in Shanghai, Beijing etc. They eat KFC, they drink Starbucks, they use iPhones/Android etc. They wear blue jeans, they want to wear Prada, drive BMW's etc. Like most other nations, they have adopted the American/Western way of life and culture. You'll see more and more english, more foreign stuff all the time etc.

I could write more, but I'll leave with stating, that China is antagonizing several neighbors. Japan, India, Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan, Cambodia etc. Let's see what happens.

Those Japanese companies are as dependent on the China market as ever, you really think Honda, Nissan,Toyota, etc. will pull out of the world's largest car market, where companies like GM make most of their profits? Many electronics companies are also dependent on being in China due to source materials like rare earth metals being unavailable or expensive elsewhere.

I wouldn't take "eating at KFC" of "using Android" to be a mark of Westernization--have you seen the food available at KFC China, or the Baidu/Tencent-based Android variants with the dozen or so domestic Chinese app stores. I don't think they identify blue jeans as being Western either.

American Football isn't popular in China, it mostly caters to expats, as well as the Chinese state obsession with trying to have a hand in every sport, the same way there's multiple rugby teams, handball teams, modern decathlon competitors, racewalking competitions, even that Thai(?) volleyball-like kicking game (because its a competition that awards gold medals at the Asian games).
 
Wow, some of you play way too much Call of Duty.

The US has a very huge and important military force, but that does not mean everything would be a piece of cake for the Americans just because of it. Anybody remembers Vietnam?
 
Wow, some of you play way too much Call of Duty.

The US has a very huge and important military force, but that does not mean everything would be a piece of cake for the Americans just because of it. Anybody remembers Vietnam?

asymmetric warfare != conventional warfare
and the US has gotten pretty good at the former now, too. Never ending war seems to have that effect at least.
 
Wow, some of you play way too much Call of Duty.

The US has a very huge and important military force, but that does not mean everything would be a piece of cake for the Americans just because of it. Anybody remembers Vietnam?

Of course it wouldn't be a piece of cake. I don't think anyone is claiming it would be, but any confrontation with China would not be anything like Vietnam in any way, shape, or form.
 
What the fuck am I reading in this thread? People are acting as if war is around the corner here (well, technically I guess you could say that due to human nature). Are you all forgetting what age we live in?

We live in age where if a war breaks out between regional, great, and superpower(s), that it pretty much means the entire global economy goes down the toilet and the world's major cities would likely be destroyed either by convention or nuke. The amount of economic damage were London, New York City, and Tokyo destroyed by military forces would be catastrophic. It'd take the world around 30 years minimum to get where it back was, and that's assuming that we're making the right choices to get back on our feet and no country is being a complete dick trying to get their hands on the world's last few resources after said war is damaging.

The age of war between developed nations is effectively over, lest some country wants to be REALLY fucking stupid. There's too much at stake. Get used to proxy wars and small regional conflicts in poorer nations like Africa and the Middle East
 
The whole "locked on" thing merely means you're tracking an object and is completely overblown by hollywood. Would it blow your mind to if I told you every single airplane on the airport radar is "locked on"!
There are distinct modes used for search vs. tracking by military radars. Figuring the differences out is how you have radar warning receivers on vehicles that are not constantly blaring - they have a library of threat track and seek modes. The Chinese ship had multiple radar systems, the one they used on the Japanese vessel was for acquiring firing solutions and not just an innocuous navigation or search radar.
 
Those Japanese companies are as dependent on the China market as ever, you really think Honda, Nissan,Toyota, etc. will pull out of the world's largest car market, where companies like GM make most of their profits? Many electronics companies are also dependent on being in China due to source materials like rare earth metals being unavailable or expensive elsewhere.

I wouldn't take "eating at KFC" of "using Android" to be a mark of Westernization--have you seen the food available at KFC China, or the Baidu/Tencent-based Android variants with the dozen or so domestic Chinese app stores. I don't think they identify blue jeans as being Western either.

American Football isn't popular in China, it mostly caters to expats, as well as the Chinese state obsession with trying to have a hand in every sport, the same way there's multiple rugby teams, handball teams, modern decathlon competitors, racewalking competitions, even that Thai(?) volleyball-like kicking game (because its a competition that awards gold medals at the Asian games).

Dude, we're at a point where it's now cheaper for American companies to build or produce in Mexico and truck it over or even produce on America itself. You think Japanese companies give two shits about profit margins when their country is under attack? They'd probably be mandated to exit China. They could just as easily go to Malaysia, Vietnam, even India. Not to mention China attacking Japan would raise the ire of the globe. China has no friends. It's closest allies are north Korea, Pakistan, Iran and Sudan. You'd see sanctions and mass closures of factories and the complete destruction of China's economy.

And you didn't get my point. Doesn't matter if they have local food at KFC, the point is, an American multinational corporation is now the most popular eatery in China, a country that was once isolated. Of course they'll have their own spin on a few things, but Google the NFL in China, Google the NBA in China. You'll see just how fast those sports and brands are growing there.

And the rare earth problem ruined China more. China created tons of pollution, mined its valuable minerals while the rest of the countries bought them cheap. If China wants to out a stop to that, they'll go back to doing what they did before. And 30 years ago, every person in China was either wearing mao-type suits or button shirts and pants/trousers. Now they wear blue jeans, t-shirts and nikes. That's what I was getting at. They are adopting american/western culture. Everyone can see it.

Wow, some of you play way too much Call of Duty.

The US has a very huge and important military force, but that does not mean everything would be a piece of cake for the Americans just because of it. Anybody remembers Vietnam?

You have no clue what you're saying. The US is literally foaming at the mouth to fight a large scale ground war. It's what their entire military is b designed for. The full might of the US military could take on China, India and Russia conventionally. In fact the US navy is larger than the next ten combined. Think about 10 carrier battle groups off the Chinese mainland. The US has unmatched power projection and it's ridiculously scary to think about a scenario where they would be given free reign to use it.

People bring up Iraq, and Afghanistan as if the US failed. Iraq's military fell within days, the US is fighting an insurgency. They could level Afghanistan clean tomorrow and make it a pile of rubble, but that's not what they want/need.

You mentioned Vietnam. Had they wanted to, they could have destroyed the country. In reality, it was a poorly timed war meant to counter communist influence. No different than Iraq now. Politicians should never run or decide wars. US soldiers has trouble with Vietnamese soldiers who knew the lay of the land, were dug in deep etc. Couple this with declining support at home, our troops were shafted.

See I'm not American, I'm not about 'Merica fuck yeah! But even I'm not a fool to doubt US conventional military superiority. The amount of jets, missiles, tanks, helicopters, nuclear subs, frigates, carriers etc. Not to mention the world's most sophisticated satellite surveillance system as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see some American senators not want to Draft some bills giving more military aid to Japan, wanting to beef up the Pacific etc. A Chinese/Japanese war would be devastating to the global economy, to the world etc. But damn if you don't think the US military industrial complex isn't thinking about the money they could raise having a new enemy/new cold war with China.
 
Name 10 countries with more advanced militaries.


Russia, USA, UK, France, Japan, Germany, Canada, Turkey, Pakistan, Israel, Australia, Brazil.

That doesn't mean that China doesn't spend more, but they will surpass most of these nations eventually.
 
Dude, we're at a point where it's now cheaper for American companies to build or produce in Mexico and truck it over or even produce on America itself. You think Japanese companies give two shits about profit margins when their country is under attack? They'd probably be mandated to exit China. They could just as easily go to Malaysia, Vietnam, even India. Not to mention China attacking Japan would raise the ire of the globe. China has no friends. It's closest allies are north Korea, Pakistan, Iran and Sudan. You'd see sanctions and mass closures of factories and the complete destruction of China's economy.

And you didn't get my point. Doesn't matter if they have local food at KFC, the point is, an American multinational corporation is now the most popular eatery in China, a country that was once isolated. Of course they'll have their own spin on a few things, but Google the NFL in China, Google the NBA in China. You'll see just how fast those sports and brands are growing there.

And the rare earth problem ruined China more. China created tons of pollution, mined its valuable minerals while the rest of the countries bought them cheap. If China wants to out a stop to that, they'll go back to doing what they did before. And 30 years ago, every person in China was either wearing mao-type suits or button shirts and pants/trousers. Now they wear blue jeans, t-shirts and nikes. That's what I was getting at. They are adopting american/western culture. Everyone can see it.



You have no clue what you're saying. The US is literally foaming at the mouth to fight a large scale ground war. It's what their entire military is b designed for. The full might of the US military could take on China, India and Russia conventionally. In fact the US navy is larger than the next ten combined. Think about 10 carrier battle groups off the Chinese mainland. The US has unmatched power projection and it's ridiculously scary to think about a scenario where they would be given free reign to use it.

People bring up Iraq, and Afghanistan as if the US failed. Iraq's military fell within days, the US is fighting an insurgency. They could level Afghanistan clean tomorrow and make it a pile of rubble, but that's not what they want/need.

You mentioned Vietnam. Had they wanted to, they could have destroyed the country. In reality, it was a poorly timed war meant to counter communist influence. No different than Iraq now. Politicians should never run or decide wars. US soldiers has trouble with Vietnamese soldiers who knew the lay of the land, were dug in deep etc. Couple this with declining support at home, our troops were shafted.

See I'm not American, I'm not about 'Merica fuck yeah! But even I'm not a fool to doubt US conventional military superiority. The amount of jets, missiles, tanks, helicopters, nuclear subs, frigates, carriers etc. Not to mention the world's most sophisticated satellite surveillance system as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see some American senators not want to Draft some bills giving more military aid to Japan, wanting to beef up the Pacific etc. A Chinese/Japanese war would be devastating to the global economy, to the world etc. But damn if you don't think the US military industrial complex isn't thinking about the money they could raise having a new enemy/new cold war with China.

The US take on Russia, conventionally? Well, yes, we'd win obviously, but good luck invading Siberia or holding any of the country.

Keep in mind, from the late 60s to the late 80s, it was generally believed that had the Soviets decided to be ballsy enough to say "fuck it" and try and take Western Europe by force, NATO wouldn't have been able to stop them without using Nukes.
 
Russia, USA, UK, France, Japan, Germany, Canada, Turkey, Pakistan, Israel, Australia, Brazil.

That doesn't mean that China doesn't spend more, but they will surpass most of these nations eventually.

:lol

Read the original dialogue again.
 
China flexing muscles, Japan wants to call their SDF what it really is, it'll be an interesting time, if you live outside the area.

Southeast Asia is going to be a dronezone.
 
Dude, we're at a point where it's now cheaper for American companies to build or produce in Mexico and truck it over or even produce on America itself. You think Japanese companies give two shits about profit margins when their country is under attack? They'd probably be mandated to exit China. They could just as easily go to Malaysia, Vietnam, even India. Not to mention China attacking Japan would raise the ire of the globe. China has no friends. It's closest allies are north Korea, Pakistan, Iran and Sudan. You'd see sanctions and mass closures of factories and the complete destruction of China's economy.

And you didn't get my point. Doesn't matter if they have local food at KFC, the point is, an American multinational corporation is now the most popular eatery in China, a country that was once isolated. Of course they'll have their own spin on a few things, but Google the NFL in China, Google the NBA in China. You'll see just how fast those sports and brands are growing there.

And the rare earth problem ruined China more. China created tons of pollution, mined its valuable minerals while the rest of the countries bought them cheap. If China wants to out a stop to that, they'll go back to doing what they did before. And 30 years ago, every person in China was either wearing mao-type suits or button shirts and pants/trousers. Now they wear blue jeans, t-shirts and nikes. That's what I was getting at. They are adopting american/western culture. Everyone can see it.
There isn't going to be a war, so get off that hypothetical. We aren't at the point of producing in Mexico for many products, especially when many companies are seeing the need to produce in China for the Chinese market. They are more dependent on the Chinese economy than ever. If it were easy to move, they would have moved yesterday. Instead, they are trying to create Chinese brands to insulate themselves from being seen as too Japanese. The car companies won't leave because of extremely high tariffs for import cars, and China is the largest car market in the world.

I don't know why you think KFC is the most popular, when Chinese consumers are avoiding KFC in droves nowadays. http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-74300114/

I don't think it matters that Yum! Brands is from America, they also own a dumpling chain and a hot pot chain in China, but that, like the Sinofied KFC food doesn't make people feel more Western. When you are eating "Old Peking Chicken Rolls" or congee at KFC, or wearing blue jeans, it doesn't mean people are Westernizing or adopting American culture any more than to say Americans are becoming more like Chinese due to Panda Express and the popularity of silk clothing products.

The NFL is spending a lot of money in China and trying to get a lot of people to write about its growing popularity, but it just isn't growing. Racewalking and other obscure Olympic or Asian Games sports are more popular.

The NBA is popular, but basketball is popular as an international sport, just like soccer. The popularity of basketball in Eastern Europe, Russia and South America doesn't make them more Americanized or Western than the British that don't care for the sport.

China has already stopped rare earth exports before, it just forces companies to manufacture those products in China, rather than export it elsewhere to be manufactured.
 
Russia, USA, UK, France, Japan, Germany, Canada, Turkey, Pakistan, Israel, Australia, Brazil.

That doesn't mean that China doesn't spend more, but they will surpass most of these nations eventually.

Remove Japan and that would be a good list similar to one I would have posted.

Japan simply does not have a world class military by any measure.
 
You have no clue what you're saying. The US is literally foaming at the mouth to fight a large scale ground war. It's what their entire military is b designed for. The full might of the US military could take on China, India and Russia conventionally. In fact the US navy is larger than the next ten combined. Think about 10 carrier battle groups off the Chinese mainland. The US has unmatched power projection and it's ridiculously scary to think about a scenario where they would be given free reign to use it.
If by 'fight' you mean lobbing a few nukes before moving onto the next target, sure. Otherwise the military is grossly overstretched as is and they'll probably face big cuts soon.
 
China would completely overwhelm Japan in a solo war, I'm surprised people are denying that. Unfortunately for china that would never happen due to treaties; I'm not even sure Russia would come to their aide if the US and other countries got involved.

I imagine we'll get saber rattling all year but nothing will happen. The costs of war to the global economy wouldn't justify an attack over some small islands. My only fear is that some accidental first shot could spark a short term conflict.

You have little understanding of both sides and the type of war which will be fought.

Remove Japan and that would be a good list similar to one I would have posted.

Japan simply does not have a world class military by any measure.

What constitutes a world class military and use that to justify why japan is not a world class military.
 
You have little understanding of both sides and the type of war which will be fought.
Anyone saying that they know what "type of war which will be fought" has little understanding of the situation, in my opinion. For an example of the complexity of the situation, here is a hypothetical: Taiwan makes the first move.

In fact, Taiwanese boats have engaged the Japanese side more directly than the Chinese (in September and January firing water cannons at Japanese coast guard boats).
 
China has already stopped rare earth exports before, it just forces companies to manufacture those products in China, rather than export it elsewhere to be manufactured.

That also has caused the rare earths market to crater as companies source from elsewhere or engineer their products to use less of those materials. There can be unforseen consequences.
 
Anyone saying that they know what "type of war which will be fought" has little understanding of the situation, in my opinion. For an example of the complexity of the situation, here is a hypothetical: Taiwan makes the first move.

In fact, Taiwanese boats have engaged the Japanese side more directly than the Chinese (in September and January firing water cannons at Japanese coast guard boats).

Any war in east Asia will be fought over Sea, Any war (that's what i mean by type of war). Therefore its not that hard to conclude that if China fought Japan today they will have Naval confrontations, an area were China has little to no experience, an area were china's 1-2 million man standing army is useless, an area that requires up to date equipment and the right personnel to operate those up to date equipment. China will eclipse many nations with time, but as it stands now China will not want to go into war with Japan because they know that their biggest obstacle is the JMSDF and the 7th Fleet.
 
See I'm not American, I'm not about 'Merica fuck yeah! But even I'm not a fool to doubt US conventional military superiority. The amount of jets, missiles, tanks, helicopters, nuclear subs, frigates, carriers etc. Not to mention the world's most sophisticated satellite surveillance system as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see some American senators not want to Draft some bills giving more military aid to Japan, wanting to beef up the Pacific etc. A Chinese/Japanese war would be devastating to the global economy, to the world etc. But damn if you don't think the US military industrial complex isn't thinking about the money they could raise having a new enemy/new cold war with China.

I don't think anyone here nor in the world doubts it, but war is not only matter of having the best and biggest, at least not today, perhaps in the last century, yeah, but not today. US perhaps could go to a conventional war with China and defeat it, but that would also mean a huge loss for the US, as all our economies (mainly the economies of all biggest countries and economic areas) are connected.

When I mentioned Vietnam, I was not trying to say that "yeah, the US lost" or anything like that, is obvious they could've destroyed the entire country if they had wanted to, but the thing is not about destroying or not destroying. It is far more complex than that, it was back then with Vietnam and it would be today with China or Russia. Yeah, the US had this 100000 to 1 superiority, but still North Vietnam won the war in the sense they managed to establish the communist state, and nothing could the US do to prevent it, even if they tried.

Wars are, at least in these contemporary times, far more complex that most people think. It's not just going there and turning everything to rubble.
 
Any war in east Asia will be fought over Sea, Any war. Therefore its not that hard to conclude that if China fought Japan today they will have Naval confrontations, an area were China has little to no experience, an area were china's 1-2 million man standing army is useless, an area that requires up to date equipment and the right personnel to operate those up to date equipment. China will eclipse many nations with time, but as it stands now China will not want to go into war with Japan because they know that their biggest obstacle is the JMSDF and the 7th Fleet.
The 7th Fleet would not get involved if Japan makes the first move, probably eon't get involved if Taiwan makes the first move, and may not even get involved if non-military ships were the ones acting. The US navy hasn't gotten involved with Chinese non-naval ships occupying the Scarborough Shoal, despite a defense treaty with the Philippines. Japan hasn't expelled the non-naval occupation of South Korea and Russia from islands that Japan claims.
 
Very stupid of China's officials.

Then again, with how desperate the CPC is (and needs to be to stay relevant and in power), I imagine there will be a lot of stupid shit in the coming years.

The 7th Fleet would not get involved if Japan makes the first move, probably eon't get involved if Taiwan makes the first move, and may not even get involved if non-military ships were the ones acting. The US navy hasn't gotten involved with Chinese non-naval ships occupying the Scarborough Shoal, despite a defense treaty with the Philippines. Japan hasn't expelled the non-naval occupation of South Korea and Russia from islands that Japan claims.

Do you really think there is any scenario in which Japan makes the first move without first closely coordinating with the United States?
 
The 7th Fleet would not get involved if Japan makes the first move, probably eon't get involved if Taiwan makes the first move, and may not even get involved if non-military ships were the ones acting. The US navy hasn't gotten involved with Chinese non-naval ships occupying the Scarborough Shoal, despite a defense treaty with the Philippines. Japan hasn't expelled the non-naval occupation of South Korea and Russia from islands that Japan claims.

These are two completely different situations, Japan is not "some" country. Japan is the third largest economy in the world, if the United States does not honor its treaty with Japan they can kiss their foreign policy goodbye. Even if the 7th Fleet does not get involved China is not going to be rolling over Japan, like i said the best they could hope for is a stalemate. I understand why many people have reservations about US involvement in the event of war, however whether Japan starts it or not they will have to support Japan because they will equally lose as much by not supporting them.
 
Very stupid of China's officials.

Then again, with how desperate the CPC is (and needs to be to stay relevant and in power), I imagine there will be a lot of stupid shit in the coming years.

Do you really think there is any scenario in which Japan makes the first move without first closely coordinating with the United States?
If you think that this was done for CPC propaganda purposes, the Chinese would have been the ones bragging about it, just like they brag about other actions, including when they fly prop planes over the islands.

Just like Japan coordinated the nationalization of the islands? They don't control every move their tired coast guard sailors make, just like you can't automatically assume that every Chinese action came from a CPC directive, including aiming of radar? A water cannon could knock a Taiwanese coast guard sailor into the water and have him drowned, an accidental turn could ram another boat, etc. Do you think the CPC ordered its jets to glance into the American spy plane, killing the pilot and destroying the plane, and setting off an international incident, when the incident most likely came from a cocky Chinese pilot who got too close?
 
These are two completely different situations, Japan is not "some" country. Japan is the third largest economy in the world, if the United States does not honor its treaty with Japan they can kiss their foreign policy goodbye. Even if the 7th Fleet does not get involved China is not going to be rolling over Japan, like i said the best they could hope for is a stalemate. I understand why many people have reservations about US involvement in the event of war, however whether Japan starts it or not they will have to support Japan because they will equally lose as much by not supporting them.
I don't think most people in either Japan or the US feel that the rocks are worth getting into full-scale war over. Japan is certainly not going to abandon US support, just like they didn't abandon it over the islands dispute with Korea.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...4846_1_senkaku-islands-diaoyu-china-and-japan
The United States also has a mutual defense treaty with the Philippines. Although the Obama administration has been eager to bolster security cooperation with Manila, U.S. officials don’t want to be forced to become militarily involved in obscure territorial feuds.

“I’m pretty frank with people: I don’t think that we’d allow the U.S. to get dragged into a conflict over fish or over a rock,” said a senior U.S. military official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss deliberations within the Obama administration. “Having allies that we have defense treaties with, not allowing them to drag us into a situation over a rock dispute, is something I think we’re pretty all well-aligned on.”
 
I don't think most people in either Japan or the US feel that the rocks are worth getting into full-scale war over. Japan is certainly not going to abandon US support, just like they didn't abandon it over the islands dispute with Korea.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...4846_1_senkaku-islands-diaoyu-china-and-japan

Of-course the average Joe doesn't give a rats ass but as history has shown the average joe's opinion matters little in the onset of a conflict. Both countries (but more so China) are fanning the flames of Nationalism, this so called rocks are no longer simply rocks.
 
Of-course the average Joe doesn't give a rats ass but as history has shown the average joe's opinion matters little in the onset of a conflict. Both countries (but more so China) are fanning the flames of Nationalism, this so called rocks are no longer simply rocks.
The US has no interest in getting involved, and it will not damage their "foreign policy face" very much. Look at the Defense Secretary confirmation hearings and see how often this is mentioned, or Japan, or China. Many Americans actually would be happy if Japan increases defense spending and the US decrease spending on overseas bases.
 
The US has no interest in getting involved, and it will not damage their "foreign policy face" very much. Look at the Defense Secretary confirmation hearings and see how often this is mentioned, or Japan, or China. Many Americans actually would be happy if Japan increases defense spending and the US decrease spending on overseas bases.

First, You are right that the US has no interest in getting involved but having no interest and actually being required to get involved are two different things. They might have no interest but when the day comes they will have to act. It has been mentioned that those islands fall withing the defense treaty and i don't see them backing away. Second, you are completely wrong on the amount of damage it will do to America should they not come to Japans aid, like i said Japan is the third largest economy in the world, the second largest foreign holder of US debts (at $1.140 trillion). Japan is the most powerful ally the United states has and i am sure the United States elites understand the ramifications of not supporting their most powerful ally.
 
I believe the plane in question was actually one of these:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird

The congratulation letter is a bit of a myth so who knows if it really happened, the Swedish Air force did however lock-on to the SR-71 on multiple occasions.

AA batteries have locked onto the Blackbird several times. Why is this incident considered a feat worthy of a letter?
 
First, You are right that the US has no interest in getting involved but having no interest and actually being required to get involved are two different things. They might have no interest but when the day comes they will have to act. It has been mentioned that those islands fall withing the defense treaty and i don't see them backing away. Second, you are completely wrong on the amount of damage it will do to America should they not come to Japans aid, like i said Japan is the third largest economy in the world, the second largest foreign holder of US debts (at $1.140 trillion). Japan is the most powerful ally the United states has and i am sure the United States elites understand the ramifications of not supporting their most powerful ally.

That'd be the UK, bro.
 
First, You are right that the US has no interest in getting involved but having no interest and actually being required to get involved are two different things. They might have no interest but when the day comes they will have to act. It has been mentioned that those islands fall withing the defense treaty and i don't see them backing away. Second, you are completely wrong on the amount of damage it will do to America should they not come to Japans aid, like i said Japan is the third largest economy in the world, the second largest foreign holder of US debts (at $1.140 trillion). Japan is the most powerful ally the United states has and i am sure the United States elites understand the ramifications of not supporting their most powerful ally.

They've been careful to word their support in very specific terms. They will only get involved in the event of a military attack. They won't come rushing to aid if Japan moves first, or if the conflict is non-military. Do you see the 7th fleet sending in support when Chinese non-military planes and boats are constantly patrolling the islands, or when Taiwanese coast guard ships fire water cannons at Japanese coast guard ships?

There is very little to separate the daily non-military incursions from a 24 hour constant presence, ala the Scarborough Shoal, and I don't see the US military getting involved for that.

Japan also isn't going to dump their bonds for a US refusal to help them expel non-naval ships.

By the way, you mischaracterized China in the South China Sea by saying they had "boots on the ground in the islands much like they are doing in the south china sea," all they have at the Scarborough Shoal is a 24-hour presence with non-naval boats--just a step up from what's going on in these islands (they are only around the islands for 7-15 hours per day).

http://japandailypress.com/chinese-...-yet-another-breach-in-senkaku-waters-0522700
While thankfully there was no breakout of hostile action, the Chinese ships entered the territorial waters around 9:30 AM local time and remained there for roughly 14 hours.
 
Nationalism is a helluva drug. I always feel nervous when a government rely on nationalism to stay on power. Once the situation escalates, it's near impossible to push nationalism back and things just go their way.
 
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