PeskyToaster
Member
wow 2 aircraft carriers. cool.
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China's first domestically built aircraft carrier is launched, second overall
- Thread starter Madness
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I think you are missing the point. Of course the carrier is no match for the US fleet, but by building their own, they are learning and building up their experience in carrier design.
They will learn from their mistakes and incorporate it into their future designs. Don't forget just few years ago they had none and now able to build one even though it is fairly ancient design.
Did you think US started with no carrier and straight to super advance ones in one step? You learn by doing.
And it only takes two decades until there's 10 more.
China may never get to the global power projection the US has (even under Trump), but they will very likely control all of the South China Sea within the next twenty years should they continue to focus on using military power projection.
China may never get to the global power projection the US has (even under Trump), but they will very likely control all of the South China Sea within the next twenty years should they continue to focus on using military power projection.
Did you guys also say "Wow, one skyscraper, cool." and "Wow, one rocket, cool." when China started building skyscrapers and having space missions? I don't get what the point of such posts are.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
What did they accomplish space wise?
Neogaf in nutshell where racism is bad unless it concerns the Chinese who are ok to mock.
China is one of only three countries to have independently sent people into space.
You think they are only going to build 1 at a time for 20 years? lol.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a65DuxgqNlg
You can see what launching looks like for the Su-33s on a ramped deck, it's about as sketchy as you'd expect.
You can see what launching looks like for the Su-33s on a ramped deck, it's about as sketchy as you'd expect.
We are at 11 supercarriers. This does not qualify as a supercarrier. It's closer to an amphib.
Vicetrailia
Member
So what happens to those jets in event of a violent storm with 50 ft waves?
My point is, every country has to start somewhere. I'm not sure what scoffing at their baby steps achieves because you know if they continue their course, they have the potential to give the US a run for their money.
It's like people are afraid of China's achievements and scoff to make their nationalistic ego feel better.
I dunno why you're quoting me, I'm pointing out that sending humans into space is a pretty important achievement
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Even if China matches our ships in tech and function, the decades of combat experience that is integrated into our navy will be hard to replicate. Maybe in 10-20 years or so after they start doing sustained long distance operations (via their eventual future blue water carriers) they can get caught up in that regard
If people are wanting a third counterbalance to the US and China, a future theoretical unified EU military force would have a much smaller gap to cross to get there if they so chose due to French experience. The British would have been a massive help also but yeah....
If people are wanting a third counterbalance to the US and China, a future theoretical unified EU military force would have a much smaller gap to cross to get there if they so chose due to French experience. The British would have been a massive help also but yeah....
Haha, I'm quoting you as an example I agree with. I'm pretty certain China will surpass the US in space exploration, the US can't really seem to decide what they want to do.
Military-wise, China are probably still decades behind the US, but I think we should be wary of their rise rather than mocking and pretending it's a bunch of nothing.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
That's because the kuznetsov is a HEAVY aircraft-carrying MISSILE CRUISER, simply put, it's a missile cruiser that happens to carry aircraft. That's why when people laugh at it as an aircraft carrier they seem to forget that the ship is essentially a massive cruiser that does not need those aircraft. A kuznetsov plus a Kirov-class cruiser can take on a US battlegroup by themselves, of course Russia does not have the ships in numbers. That aside, before people begin laughing at this let it sink in that this AC construction took 2 years, that's frankly scary.
Phoenix
Member
You wouldn't leave them on deck with 50ft waves and ideally you would avoid operating in 50 foot waves in any scenario.
Opening up trade with China was premature.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
They're not going to build 10 of them at all. They have no need.
One Eyed Willy
Member
They're stored in lower decks and brought up using elevators, like most all other carriers.
TheRealTalker
Banned
I tried to emphasize in OP, they do not counter US at all aside from greater force and power projection around the South China Sea. They now have the ability to transport personnel, troops, fighter jets and attack helicopters further from their shores. This should make Vietnam and a Philippines more nervous than a US.
But again, 2 years to build a 70000 tonne aircraft carrier, even if it is a copy of an old Soviet design is crazy. They have 2 more under construction, both rumored to be 85000 tonnes and with possible catapults for heavier bombers and jets. You could see a #1 economy China with 4 aircraft carriers by 2022. Coupled with a hawaii/guam style South China Sea port/military installation.
But again, 2 years to build a 70000 tonne aircraft carrier, even if it is a copy of an old Soviet design is crazy. They have 2 more under construction, both rumored to be 85000 tonnes and with possible catapults for heavier bombers and jets. You could see a #1 economy China with 4 aircraft carriers by 2022. Coupled with a hawaii/guam style South China Sea port/military installation.
and their own MBT. It's interesting that almost everything their military uses, they make themselves.
You make me wonder if you know what a U.S Battle group is if you think 2 carriers can take it on by itself unless they got really lucky, and I mean really lucky in spotting first despite U.S battle groups containing submarines with them.
Pretty sure you read what he said wrong. He is saying if they make 1 every 2 years, they will have 10 in 20 years.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
There were a few, so not sure if this is the latest or most accurate.
Well Australia is listed as having two aircraft carriers so...
Edit: Oh it's counting LHDs. God I thought this was some chart from the 80's for a minute, lmao.
There were a few, so not sure if this is the latest or most accurate.
Well the French PA2 was cancelled in 2013, so it was made at least before that.
edit: Wait, hold up, it even lists the USS Kitty Hawk and USS John F Kennedy, which were decommissioned in 2009 and 2007, respectively. So it's even older.
China is a manufacturing super power. Its amazing what they can make in such short quantities of time.
Like game consoles or pc parts.
No. Their engineers have the know how now and it's not like they'll be keeping it to themselves. The shipbuilding industry will explode soon enough.
All they need to do is continue to build their economy and have a moderate power projection in the South China Sea and they'll be on their way to being an actual superpower.
The TPP would have prevented this for a bit by economically strengthening the other nations surrounding the South China Sea, but instead we chose to both defund economic power projection programs and defund the industries that need massive reinvestment and reeducation programs during the most dire times.
Wyndstryker
Member
2 years to build a 70k ton carrier is quite frankly an insane build speed. If it's China build quality though it might not be that reliable. If they copied everything from the Russians into the manufacturing then it will be rugged at least.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
A US carrier strike group consists of 1 Aircraft Carrier, 2 submarines, 2 destroyers, 2 missile cruisers and a supply ship.
Only one of them is a carrier, the other is the largest combat ship that isn't an aircraft carrier. Both of those ships (especially the Kirov class of which only Nakhimov and Pyotr Veliky still remain) possess immense ability to overwhelm defenses of an Aircraft carrier (saturation attack due to the immense amount of missiles these ships carry). Combined they can wreak havoc to a CSG, granted its likely to be a suicide mission.
Go Ski jump their carrier!
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
While they theoretically could win, it's more likely that the CSG would. The larger compliment of aircraft provides a significant edge and screens are a necessity. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a carrier and cruiser to sea without escorts.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
The problem is when they launch the missiles at American ships. The aircraft carriers can actually move pretty fast at about 30mph.
So not only the anti missile defense from the US fleet is a problem. But you gottah factor in the kill-chain. the latency between spotting a target referring targeting info into the missile systems then factoring in the speed in which the carrier can move plus its projected course.
I think in earlier war games some years back that the only way to take these carriers down are a mass assault from much smaller suicide ships laden with explosives. And by no means would you be able to sink it, but make it inoperable.
Funny how people are so bitter about the USA, that they would want a communist country to rule the world...
TacticalHotdog
Member
How many years until it's belching black smoke that can be seen from space like its sister ship, the Admiral Kuznetsov?
Still nice and shiny inside...for now
Kuznetsov engine room on the left, Liaoning on the right right
This is a baby carrier built primarily for two reasons: the first is to practice and improve the PLAN's ability to operate carriers and carrier-based aircraft, and the second is to practice and improve China's ability to build full sized aircraft carriers. Bear in mind that China's military modernization didn't start until the mid-90s. Before then, their entire military was largely working with '60s technology. The PLA has come very far since then, and steps like this carrier are how they did so.
These ships aren't meant to take on the USN; they're meant to provide for a bit of power projection into the South China Sea, and that's really about it. And while China has the most shipbuilding capacity in the world, they're not going to building tons of carriers. They only need enough to cover the Western Pacific and the Indian Ocean so 5-6 full-sized carriers would be more than sufficient.
These ships aren't meant to take on the USN; they're meant to provide for a bit of power projection into the South China Sea, and that's really about it. And while China has the most shipbuilding capacity in the world, they're not going to building tons of carriers. They only need enough to cover the Western Pacific and the Indian Ocean so 5-6 full-sized carriers would be more than sufficient.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Casual reminder that we could wind up with a USS Donald Trump in the Gerald R. Ford class carriers.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I want a USS OBAMA before this happens
I played Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, that doesn't end well.
Vivalaraza
Member
China are a long long way behind the US in terms of a Navy that can patrol the oceans. It will take a fair amount of time for them to catch up on that front.
Besides, the biggest strength the US has isn't just the size of the Navy, it's all the bases they took off the British after the World Wars and the strategic positions they hold all over the world.
Regionally however, this is a big deal.
Besides, the biggest strength the US has isn't just the size of the Navy, it's all the bases they took off the British after the World Wars and the strategic positions they hold all over the world.
Regionally however, this is a big deal.
Is nuclear power really mandatory to be considered blue water? In a carrier strike group only the carrier itself and the eventual attached submarine are nuclear powered, the other ships still need a fleet oiler. And a carrier alone don't go anywhere.
The British projected power to the other side of the ocean without a nuclear carrier.
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