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[Interfectum]

You can tell the difference between "there is no misogyny in the videogame industry" and "there is no more misogyny in the videogame industry than anywhere else", right ? I'm sure you can.

You can try to be smug but you'd have to be right for it work.

Are you just pretending to be oblivious to the issues the game industry has been having involving women? Particularly them leaving the gaming industry?

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Alright, then we'll have to agree to disagree. But statements like these aren't what I expect from someone experienced with any serious business dealings:


But they are what I'd expect from a passionate artist...

Getting her personality and talents from a few lines of text of why she wants to work on video games. Wow, mate. Stop being an archair psychologist man. You do know that passionate artistic people can also be good at money management right?

 

[Persona7]

damn

she is amazing

 

[timetokill]

Well, if you find other testimonies of creators who were extremely unhappy and very ill after working with Sony, feel free to bring them. Maybe Jessica's post will encourage similar cases to share their bad experiences. I'm pretty sure Sony or any other companies would be happy to get some feedback if it can help to avoid some bad PR like this in the future.

Well, her illness isn't Sony-related, but as far as extreme unhappiness, I know enough from people personally that I'm not surprised.

At least, she seemed to be happy on a musical front when she wrote that PS Blog post back in July, talking about the wonderful Sony sound and music team.

Like I said before, you guys don't seem to understand that this is what you do for PR. Nobody is going to promote their game or their business by saying, "Well, Sony sucks shit, but check out this awesome music I made anyway!" Think for a moment.

It's also the only subject videogame related, and this is a videogame forum. I mean, the illness is a very intimate matter, and the misogyny has nothing to do with this industry in particular.

So her entire third point, which she prefaces with "Which leads me on to my final point. The games industry itself," is not videogame related?

Hahahahaha. Wow.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

You can try to be smug but you'd have to be right for it work.

Are you just pretending to be oblivious to the issues the game industry has been having involving women? Particularly them leaving the gaming industry?

The poster might be talking about how points 3 and 2 seem seperate from each other in the posting.

 

[Stallion Free]

It's unfortunate that they felt going to Sony was the only way to get the game made.

 

[Fractal]

Getting her personality and talents from a few lines of text of why she wants to work on video games. Wow, mate. Stop being an archair psychologist man. You do know that passionate artistic people can also be good at money management right?

Of course they can... but I'm simply providing my opinion on this specific case.

 

[Lord Panda]

Jessica Curry is an amazing composer. The music in Rapture was phenomenal.

However Rapture is an unusual game that most publishers wouldn't give the time of day for. I can understand (and I'm speculating) why Sony would have concerns about the direction and gameplay mechanics of Rapture.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

So the person who's been called "the brains of the operation" repeatedly and has helped the studio get to the successful position it's in just happens to lack a business perspective?

Huh. That's interesting.

Why is that so hard to accept?

People have specialised skills. No one person can be good at everything and creating art and running a business are two completely different skill sets. I'm not saying it's not possible to have both skills, but it's also not completely unrealistic to expect to be good at one, but poor at the other, and the one that you are good at to suffer as a result of trying to balance incompatible skills.

I'm not commenting on this specific case or example, because we really don't have enough information.

 

[Guri]

Dear Esther started out as mod and is a very simplistic game... I doubt developing it was overly expensive. Amnesia was a strong IP so while it's true it sold well for a game of its size, it also faced a lot of well deserved criticism due to being notably inferior to its predecessor. Rapture statistics are less than relevant to this discussion since the development "issues" pointed out here happened before its release... so I stand by my statement.

And yes, from a business standpoint, I'd call Hello Games "mediocre" as well. Definitely not someone I'd be providing with too much resources.

I get the impression her husband was handling the business side of things, while her job was primarily as an artist.

We are discussing business here, therefore sales are important to the matter. Sony invested in Everybody's Gone to Rapture and it turned into a profit. You may want to dismiss this to try and prove your point, but it still is the exact same topic.

So let's go into details here:

Dear Esther (as a game on Steam, not a mod), cost $55,000. It got that investment back in 5.5 hours in 2012. It was also the best selling game on Steam for a time. Way above some AAA titles, in fact, during that period.

Amnesia: A Machine of Pigs was definitely not as acclaimed as the first game, but it is also a very different one and I get the feeling that you disregard it sorely because you don't like what the game focused. But since you are questioning Jessica's skills as a businesswoman, let's go back to sales. It got profitable in the first week. 120k. 400k in total (until October of 2013, so more now). SOMA sold 92k copies in 10 days. That's more time and fewer copies. And SOMA is being highly praised all over the press and with many fans. I don't have the numbers for Amnesia: Memories, but I don't think it sold as well. So this isn't because of a franchise or a studio behind it. It sold well because they did a proper job. Period.

Everybody's Gone to Rapture had a lot of hype since 2013. Not widespread, but surely enough to get the attention of a lot of people who like this kind of game. It was exclusive to PC, until Sony got it. Do you really think they would do that if they considered the studio mediocre? They knew its value. And it sold well in the end. So any kind of ill treatment that might have happened (and we can't know what happened) was not OK. And it proves that there is an issue on the developers/publishers relationship.

Finally, Jessica is the Director of the studio, while Dan is Creative Director.

 

[Dice//]

.... and the misogyny has nothing to do with this industry in particular.

 

[kyser73]

Getting her personality and talents from a few lines of text of why she wants to work on video games. Wow, mate. Stop being an archair psychologist man. You do know that passionate artistic people can also be good at money management right?

That doesn't necessarily make them good at project management though, or happy with having to work with people for whom following Agile is almost a religion (in using Agile as an example here).

 

[timetokill]

Why is that so hard to accept?

Because she's the director of the studio and has brought the company to this point in the first place?

Because these assumptions that "she must not be good at business" feed DIRECTLY into her third point about people's assumptions about her simply because she's a woman?

Why is the automatic assumption that her husband runs the business side of things?

Why is it so hard to accept that maybe Good Guy Sony... isn't?

 

[mejin]

I don't think you realize how much of that is PR and hype-building for games.

I can understand that but I just don't believe everything is a lie or PR bullshit.

Microsoft could buy all the support possible but some developers publicly criticize their politics and so, no game for them.
Nintendo lives in a bubble, their relationship with developers are not that good since...ever.
Sony has the results this gen. No one is doing better than them to get games.

But you know I'm not telling she's lying since we all know what sony became pre-PS3 and if they are relly starting to screw up with developers it would be a damn shame. They will lose new opportunities here and there, including Chinese Room....I really liked Rapture and would like to see a new game from them on PS4.

 

[Fractal]

We are discussing business here, therefore sales are important to the matter. Sony invested in Everybody's Gone to Rapture and it turned into a profit. You may want to dismiss this to try and prove your point, but it still is the exact same topic.

So let's go into details here:

Dear Esther (as a game on Steam, not a mod), cost $55,000. It got that investment back in 5.5 hours in 2012. It was also the best selling game on Steam for a time. Way above some AAA titles, in fact, during that period.

Amnesia: A Machine of Pigs was definitely not as acclaimed as the first game, but it is also a very different one and I get the feeling that you disregard it sorely because you don't like what the game focused. But since you are questioning Jessica's skills as a businesswoman, let's go back to sales. It got profitable in the first week. 120k. 400k in total. SOMA sold 92k copies in 10 days. That's more time and fewer copies. And SOMA is being highly praised all over the press and with many fans. I don't have the numbers for Amnesia: Memories, but I don't think it sold as well. So this isn't because of a franchise or a studio behind it. It sold well because they did a proper job. Period.

Everybody's Gone to Rapture had a lot of hype since 2013. Not widespread, but surely enough to get the attention of a lot of people who like this kind of game. It was exclusive to PC, until Sony got it. Do you really think they would do that if they considered the studio mediocre? They knew its value. And it sold well in the end. So any kind of ill treatment that might have happened (and we can't know what happened) was not OK. And it proves that there is an issue on the developers/publishers relationship.

Finally, Jessica is the Director of the studio, while Dan is Creative Director.

It should be noted SOMA started out at $30, while AMFTP started out at $20. Besides, AMFTP was a sequel to a game which got a lot of traction among the horror audience at the time.

As for Rapture, can't say I remember much hype... the only notable media coverage I remember was some disappointment when the PC version was cancelled, but the whole thing blew over quickly and was forgotten. To tell you the truth, I'm very much puzzled why Sony went for it in the first place, but somehow I doubt they saw a lot of value in it... I'd say they were in the market for a cheap exclusive, but that's just an assumption without any real proof.

 

[A Link to the Past]

You can try to be smug but you'd have to be right for it work.

Are you just pretending to be oblivious to the issues the game industry has been having involving women? Particularly them leaving the gaming industry?

I think what's being said is that if you look at Hollywood, there is a very intense degree of misogyny, as well as other things, and it's honestly more intense and awful than in this industry (at least from the industry people). I would agree that the misogyny of the game industry comes from the same place as misogyny in film. Men "created" gaming, just like men "created" film, and thus men in the industry can get a big ego and be more dismissive towards women.

Why is that so hard to accept?

People have specialised skills. No one person can be good at everything and creating art and running a business are two completely different skill sets. I'm not saying it's not possible to have both skills, but it's also not completely unrealistic to expect to be good at one, but poor at the other, and the one that you are good at to suffer as a result of trying to balance incompatible skills.

I'm not commenting on this specific case or example, because we really don't have enough information.

But there's no valid reason to suggest that she may have poor business skills, especially in light of the information on hand about the company under her direction. It's hard to believe that the suggestion wasn't derived from the fact that she's a woman.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Because she's the director of the studio and has brought the company to this point in the first place?

Because these assumptions that "she must not be good at business" feed DIRECTLY into her third point about people's assumptions about her simply because she's a woman?

Why is the automatic assumption that her husband runs the business side of things?

Why is it so hard to accept that maybe Good Guy Sony... isn't?

Working for yourself and working for a publisher are, again, two completely different things. Previous experience is all well and good, but there's completely different pressures involved and none of it has to do with the fact she's a woman.

Ken Levine ran Irrational Games into the ground. Kazunori Yamauchi only gets away with Gran Turismo because how well it sells. Hideo Kojima is leaving Konami because he couldn't project manage and budget correctly. There's countless examples of creators being bad at the business side of things, despite having plenty of success, in all types of media and gender doesn't come in to it. People just have different abilities and different levels they can work to.

Like I said, I made no assumptions and WASN'T basing this on this particular example, you're bringing it back to specifics, I was simply responding to your, frankly odd, suggestion that it's completely impossible for someone who is good from an artistic side of things to be unable to deal with a completely different skill set in business. Who runs The Chinese Room's day to day? No idea, it actually doesn't matter, because it was completely irrelevent to the statement I made.

 

[timetokill]

Like I said, I made no assumptions and WASN'T basing this on this particular example, you're bringing it back to specifics, I was simply responding to your, frankly odd, suggestion that it's completely impossible for someone who is good from an artistic side of things to be unable to deal with a completely different skill set in business. Who runs The Chinese Room's day to day? No idea, it actually doesn't matter, because it was completely irrelevent to the statement I made.

I was speaking specifically to this example, and I never suggested that it's "impossible for someone who is good from an artistic side of things to be unable to deal with a completely different skill set in business." That's something you made up on your own.

You responded to my comment that said:

"So the person who's been called "the brains of the operation" repeatedly and has helped the studio get to the successful position it's in just happens to lack a business perspective?

Huh. That's interesting."

Note that this is a very specific comment on a specific person. Then you asked "why that's so hard to understand." It's hard to understand because of this specific instance.

 

[Guri]

It should be noted SOMA started out at $30, while AMFTP started out at $20. Besides, AMFTP was a sequel to a game which got a lot of traction among the horror audience at the time.

As for Rapture, can't say I remember much hype... the only notable media coverage I remember was some disappointment when the PC version was cancelled, but the whole thing blew over quickly and was forgotten. To tell you the truth, I'm very much puzzled why Sony went for it in the first place, but somehow I doubt they saw a lot of value in it... I'd say they were in the market for a cheap exclusive, but that's just an assumption without any real proof.

Yeah, but many games that start as $20 or $15 sold less and were also well known. I mean, I won't discuss your taste here or design flaws with the game, but if it sells 400k in around one month, with 120k in the first week, you can't deny it's been a successful title business-wise. SOMA costs more, but it's also a game from Frictional, which a lot of people wanted, and it's been hyped since the announcement.

No publisher gets an exclusive just to add to their library. They want profits. And if they see the possibility for it, they invest. If not, they don't. It's just that simple.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

But there's no valid reason to suggest that she may have poor business skills, especially in light of the information on hand about the company under her direction. It's hard to believe that the suggestion wasn't derived from the fact that she's a woman.

OK, let's remove the idea of poor business skills. You don't get to that level by being poor at business (I never made the suggestion she was poor at handling the business side of things, in any case, I'm playing Devil's Adovocate to a degree here). Would naivity towards how a major publisher handles a project be outside the realm of possibility?

Did The Chinese Room, possibly, expect to have the same autonomy they had before Sony were publishing the game?

I was speaking specifically to this example, and I never suggested that it's "impossible for someone who is good from an artistic side of things to be unable to deal with a completely different skill set in business." That's something you made up on your own.
.

Then, yes, I've misunderstood and apologise.

 

[Protome]

People are latching onto the Sony stuff too much. Going from working fully independently to having a publisher checking in on your changes the entire dynamic of a project and can often be a lot less fun to start with, this isn't something exclusive to the games industry and most definitely is not something exclusive to Sony. Its more likely that this was what she had issues with rather than "grr Sony suck" which some seem to be reading it as.

And while others have already pointed out how silly the earlier comment was, pointing out that there is misogyny in other big mediums that is worse than in games is straight up irrelevant to this topic. It wasn't Hollywood's sexism that kept her from getting credit where credit was due. It wasn't the advertising industry that portrayed her as "the wife of the guy running the show." It was the games industry. Our industry.

 

[timetokill]

Then, yes, I've misunderstood and apologise.

It's cool. I totally agree that many artistic people are not cut out for business, but I think it's insulting to suggest that of Jessica because I believe she's proven otherwise.

 

[Hektor]

Action: "Hey guys, ive got a terrible disease that is heavily impacting my life and is slowly killing me, nobody treats me with respect and everyone just thinks that im the useless +1 of my man, i've also had some issues working with a publisher that i sadly cant disclose, thats why im leaving this company. Thanks for your love, bye!"

Reaction: "HOW DARES SHE TO IMPLY SOMETHING SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE ABOUT SONY??????????"

Thats amazing and sad at the same time.

________

GL with the future Jess! Ill hope for you that you adhere to your own advice.

 

[Stimpack]

Oh, that is very rough to read. My heart goes out for her, and I wish she weren't in the midst of such hardships. She seems like a tough and sensible woman.

 

[Fractal]

Yeah, but many games that start as $20 or $15 sold less and were also well known. I mean, I won't discuss your taste here or design flaws with the game, but if it sells 400k in around one month, with 120k in the first week, you can't deny it's been a successful title business-wise. SOMA costs more, but it's also a game from Frictional, which a lot of people wanted, and it's been hyped since the announcement.

No publisher gets an exclusive just to add to their library. They want profits. And if they see the possibility for it, they invest. If not, they don't. It's just that simple.

If you ask me, AMFTP was in a position where it was guaranteed to sell well, as long as they didn't do something very stupid. While I don't think it's an outright bad game, I do think it's notably worse than the predecessor and it can definitely be said it didn't move the "series" forward... it actually moved it backwards. How much depends on a personal taste, but it's still not something that looks good on a resume.

Also, I based my previous statement on the often seen criticism regarding an "exclusive drought" on the PS4, where it's nothing new to see Bloodborne being cited as the only worthwhile exclusive title. But like I said, it was just a minor assumption.

In any case, what I see here is a person who got its first taste of corporate business and couldn't handle the pressure. There's not enough info here to reach a proper conclusion, but still, going by the one-sided nature of the letter, I definitely won't be going around calling Sony an "evil" corporation doing grave injustice to talented and passionate game developers.

 

[Guri]

If you ask me, AMFTP was in a position where it was guaranteed to sell well, as long as they didn't do something very stupid. While I don't think it's an outright bad game, I do think it's notably worse than the predecessor and it can definitely be said it didn't move the "series" forward... it actually moved it backwards. How much depends on a personal taste, but it's still not something that looks good on a resume.

Also, I based my previous statement on the often seen criticism regarding an "exclusive drought" on the PS4, where it's nothing new to see Bloodborne being cited as the only worthwhile exclusive title. But like I said, it was just a minor assumption.

In any case, what I see here is a person who got its first taste of corporate business and couldn't handle the pressure. There's not enough info here to reach a proper conclusion, but still, going by the one-sided nature of the letter, I definitely won't be going around calling Sony an "evil" corporation doing grave injustice to talented and passionate game developers.

She didn't say Sony was evil. In fact, we don't know what happened for sure. I just think it's not OK to say someone couldn't handle it while they had eight years of game industry experience, while making a successful small studio with a severe illness in the way. You may say everything you can to diminish their accomplishments, but sorry, you cannot say she just couldn't handle the business side.

You know, I am a co-founder of a studio. I'm not sure if you are in this industry, but it is incredibly difficult to break in. Have a mod turn into a game and make it profitable in its first day, get awards for it, then create a sequel for one of the most acclaimed horror games of the last decade (because Frictional believed in their version), sell 400k copies in one month and then work on their first console exclusive (and third full game ever), make it also profitable is not easy at all. It's really hard. And with a severe illness in the way.

Let's just forget what is the publisher here. It doesn't really matter if it's Sony or any other. The fact is that there are many bad stories out there about how developers are treated in their relationship makes her story very understandable. I'm not saying that it was the most horrible thing ever. I'm just saying that it was enough to make a talented person to leave the industry to try and preserve her health and well-being, but that it can also keep happening with others.

So, please, don't say she got the first taste of corporate business and couldn't handle. She got a taste of what is the industry right now and there's so much room for improvement. That should be discussed.

 

[Faustek]

Fuck, that's harsh. Not much to say but I really hope she knows how awesome the music was. Not saying the games are bad but without the music and sound effects I would probably barely remember the name The Chinese Room.

I know it's just my opinion but the music is wonderful.

But for point 3.
I truly hate it. I truly hate that you even have to fight it. That you're "leaving" it to younger healthier people. And what I hate more is that I can't even see a solution to this and I hate that it's probably going to be alive for many decades to come

 

[Axbarn]

Huh? I wonder what illness she has. Depression?

And she blames sexism too... She's probably been another victim of verbal abuse and threats and whatnot... though I have to say all the focus on sexism and feminism in games in the last 2 years have been both productive and counter-productive I think, because the increased attention gives well... incresed insentive for idiots to jump on a bandwagon and it activates a lot of confirmationist bias. I dunno, I just feel the whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

Anyway, sucks if she's leaving the industry. She's maybe the only one's talent I enjoyed out of Chinese Room's work.

 

[BurritoBushido]

Huh? I wonder what illness she has. Depression?

And she blames sexism too... She's probably been another victim of verbal abuse and threats and whatnot... though I have to say all the focus on sexism and feminism in games in the last 2 years have been both productive and counter-productive I think, because the increased attention gives well... incresed insentive for idiots to jump on a bandwagon and it activates a lot of confirmationist bias. I dunno, I just feel the whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

Anyway, sucks if she's leaving the industry. She's maybe the only one's talent I enjoyed out of Chinese Room's work.

She says right in there it is a degenerative disease that can't be cured.

 

[DangerMouse]

Quantic Dream expressed some concerns with Sony in the past, haven't they? They were pretty forthcoming about some of the pre-emptive censoring that Sony told them to do with regards to Jason's death at the beginning of Heavy Rain, which did wind up hurting the scene. I think thatgamecompany left Sony on a something of a downbeat, too.

No. In fact, it seems like it's been the opposite for QD, according to articles with various interviews, on numerous occasions they've (including the studio's founder) even said they'd be open to being bought, which they clearly don't have to say even to be good PR.

I wonder if Santa Monica Studio (producer of Rapture) will react to this. Probably not, especially since Jessica is sick.

I don't know what happened behind closed doors, but SMS seemed to be always happy to work with thechineseroom and very supportive of the game.

Yeah, I wonder if they will, due to the accusations of sexism.
And that's the part that's very weird. SSM is apparently one of the better ones to work with from reports about the hundreds of projects they work with smaller devs on. They seem to do that as much or more than they work on their internal projects. That's not happening if there were consistently bad relations.
Either way what happened is pretty awful.

One needs to go into personal accounts with an expectation of bias obviously, but this sounds incredibly shitty of her husband if true. Why would he not fight harder to make sure she gets a proper credit? Hell, why was it necessary to give credit to someone else in the first place?

Agreed. This part makes it even more confusing.

People are latching onto the Sony stuff too much. Going from working fully independently to having a publisher checking in on your changes the entire dynamic of a project and can often be a lot less fun to start with, this isn't something exclusive to the games industry and most definitely is not something exclusive to Sony. Its more likely that this was what she had issues with rather than "grr Sony suck" which some seem to be reading it as.

This.

Also, case in point:

On a personal level I look back at my huge contribution to the games that we’ve made and I have had to watch Dan get the credit time and time again. I’ve had journalists assuming I’m Dan’s PA, I have been referenced as “Dan Pinchbeck’s wife” in articles, publishers (plural) on first meeting have automatically assumed that my producer is my boss just because he’s a man, one magazine would only feature Dan as Studio Head and wouldn’t include me. When Dan has said “Jess is the brains of the operation” people have knowingly chuckled and cooed that it’s nice of a husband to be so kind about his wife.

Perhaps this will get the topic beyond just "bad Sony". Saying again and again implies that it's happened before in other interactions within the industry. They've only worked with Sony once on this one game. Even if they haven't had a publisher for their other games doesn't mean they didn't have any interactions with them in the past. Note she also sites journalists did the same so it doesn't seem like she's singling out one publisher.

Exactly. This passage in particular:

It's clear that she's not singling out Sony as an unusually bad publisher in the video game industry, but saying that all publishers are bad for artists.

This too. She sounds like she's coming from the perspective of a passionate artist.

 

[pinkurocket]

Ow, it must be terrible to put so much hard work into your stuff and not get the proper credit you deserve. Hope she can find her happy place again.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

And she blames sexism too... She's probably been another victim of verbal abuse and threats and whatnot... though I have to say all the focus on sexism and feminism in games in the last 2 years have been both productive and counter-productive I think, because the increased attention gives well... incresed insentive for idiots to jump on a bandwagon and it activates a lot of confirmationist bias. I dunno, I just feel the whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

Goddamn the concern trolling is strong in this one. Ewww.

 

[Acquiescence]

Quantic Dream expressed some concerns with Sony in the past, haven't they? They were pretty forthcoming about some of the pre-emptive censoring that Sony told them to do with regards to Jason's death at the beginning of Heavy Rain, which did wind up hurting the scene. I think thatgamecompany left Sony on a something of a downbeat, too.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't thatgamecompany approach Sony near the end of Journey's originally scheduled release date and ask for more time and money so that they could make the whole end segment interactive? Because beforehand it was just going to be told through cut-scene. I'm sure I read that somewhere. If Sony was willing to grant them that extra development time and budget then on how bad of terms could they be?

 

[Zambayoshi]

I really enjoyed Jess Curry's music in EGTTR. It's sad that she felt that she wasn't being properly supported by the people that needed to do so.

Some of what she describes of the sexism that she has experienced resonates with what other women in the games industry have said over the years. Hopefully this is becoming a less common experience.

 

[Faustek]

Huh? I wonder what illness she has. Depression?

And she blames sexism too... She's probably been another victim of verbal abuse and threats and whatnot... though I have to say all the focus on sexism and feminism in games in the last 2 years have been both productive and counter-productive I think, because the increased attention gives well... incresed insentive for idiots to jump on a bandwagon and it activates a lot of confirmationist bias. I dunno, I just feel the whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

Anyway, sucks if she's leaving the industry. She's maybe the only one's talent I enjoyed out of Chinese Room's work.

I'm going to assume that you mean the idiots that screams bloody murder when we want more diversity and assumes that it'll destroy their games are blowing shit out of proportion especially when they don't see Mr.Muscles on their cover with Ms.Boobarella.

I for one love it when I see another Kat, Bayonetta, Faith and Aloy.

 

[DangerMouse]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't thatgamecompany approach Sony near the end of Journey's originally scheduled release date and ask for more time and money so that they could make the whole end segment interactive? Because beforehand it was just going to be told through cut-scene. I'm sure I read that somewhere. If Sony was willing to grant them that extra development time and budget then on how bad of terms could they be?

I think you're right, that sounds familiar.

When development began, Sony expected the game to be completed in a year, rather than the more than three it finally took. Thatgamecompany always expected needing an extension; according to Hunicke, they believed finishing the game within a year was "unrealistic". Development ended up taking even longer than anticipated, as the team had difficulties paring down their ideas for the game and maintaining efficient communication. Over the course of development the team grew from seven to eighteen people. At the end of the second year, when Sony's extension had run out, the game did not spark the emotions in the player that the team wanted. Sony agreed to another one-year extension, but development ultimately exceeded even that

Looks like they gave it several extensions.

Edit:Yup.
http://www.destructoid.com/journey-took-thatgamecompany-into-bankruptcy-244311.phtml

 

[Jarod McChicken]

Because she's the director of the studio and has brought the company to this point in the first place?

Because these assumptions that "she must not be good at business" feed DIRECTLY into her third point about people's assumptions about her simply because she's a woman?

Why is the automatic assumption that her husband runs the business side of things?

Why is it so hard to accept that maybe Good Guy Sony... isn't?

Maybe because Sony got nothing but praise for years from the independant studios. The way they handled the indie scene since the introduction of PS4 (and even a little before that) also helped Microsoft and Nintendo to make huge change in their policies and it helped the entire industry. It's not about being the perfect company, but if working with Sony tend to make your life worse, we would know that by now.

So when a well-known creator like Jessica Curry suddenly give us a "Working with Sony was so awful that I'm even more ill than I was before", people are allowed to question what happened exactly. As much as you are allowed to enjoy the "haha see, Sony is evil too after all" narrative, even though Jessica is not giving us a single clue about what went wrong exactly. Jessica's words are not soft here. Some people at Santa Monica Studio who took care of Everybody's Gone to the Rapture with The Chinese Room are probably boiling right now, but they are certainly not in position to write a blog post to defend themselves.

 

[Fractal]

She didn't say Sony was evil. In fact, we don't know what happened for sure. I just think it's not OK to say someone couldn't handle it while they had eight years of game industry experience, while making a successful small studio with a severe illness in the way. You may say everything you can to diminish their accomplishments, but sorry, you cannot say she just couldn't handle the business side.

You know, I am a co-founder of a studio. I'm not sure if you are in this industry, but it is incredibly difficult to break in. Have a mod turn into a game and make it profitable in its first day, get awards for it, then create a sequel for one of the most acclaimed horror games of the last decade (because Frictional believed in their version), sell 400k copies in one month and then work on their first console exclusive (and third full game ever), make it also profitable is not easy at all. It's really hard. And with a severe illness in the way.

Let's just forget what is the publisher here. It doesn't really matter if it's Sony or any other. The fact is that there are many bad stories out there about how developers are treated in their relationship makes her story very understandable. I'm not saying that it was the most horrible thing ever. I'm just saying that it was enough to make a talented person to leave the industry to try and preserve her health and well-being, but that it can also keep happening with others.

So, please, don't say she got the first taste of corporate business and couldn't handle. She got a taste of what is the industry right now and there's so much room for improvement. That should be discussed.

Heh... I admire your persistence.
Alright, I guess I can admit I was a bit too harsh, there are some good points in the second paragraph... and no, I'm not a part of the gaming industry and neither do I have any professional interest in the field.

But still, I remain convinced she was best suited for a smaller studio... while it's fair to say there's room for improvement in the gaming industry, the same can be said for pretty much any other... and ultimately, I think the gaming industry as a whole is in a good place right now. Some issues here and there are unavoidable, but I don't see anything critical. That said, I speak merely as a consumer, so I guess differences in opinion are understandable since as a developer you clearly have more insight into industry's inner workings.

 

[Sylvrfonic]

Interesting.

 

[timetokill]

Maybe because Sony got nothing but praise for years from the independant studios. The way they handled the indie scene since the introduction of PS4 (and even a little before that) also helped Microsoft and Nintendo to make huge change in their policies and it helped the entire industry. It's not about being the perfect company, but if working with Sony tend to make your life worse, we would know that by now.

So when a well-known creator like Jessica Curry suddenly give us a "Working with Sony was so awful that I'm even more ill than I was before", people are allowed to question what happened exactly. As much as you are allowed to enjoy the "haha see, Sony is evil too after all" narrative, even though Jessica is not giving us a single clue about what went wrong exactly. Jessica's words are not soft here. Some people at Santa Monica Studio who took care of Everybody's Gone to the Rapture with The Chinese Room are probably boiling right now, but they are certainly not in position to write a blog post to defend themselves.

Nobody said Sony was evil. I'm certainly not.

I can see you're really defensive about this so I don't know that this is going to go anywhere really, but your view of Sony and indies is whitewashed as fuck. You've bought into the Good Guy Sony narrative hook, line, and sinker. Similarly to the people there not being able to say anything, there are a lot of people who have worked with them that aren't either.

 

[hodayathink]

In reading the whole thing for myself instead of just the quotes here, it really does sound like she's more pissed off about the publisher way of making games in general than she is at Sony in particular, especially since she states in that paragraph:

Big business and the creation of art have always been extremely uncomfortable bedfellows and making Rapture proved to be no exception for me.

So I don't know why people have latched onto "Sony must have done something bad" narrative here.

 

[Jigorath]

That was heartbreaking. I hope for the best.

 

[Fasty]

Well, the fact that I only knew of her as a composer and not a joint studio head who contributed to the design of the games makes me feel a little sick. Yuck.

 

[stryke]

Interesting.

Looks like he's not taking it too personally.

If what she feels is shared by her colleagues it wouldn't surprise me they don't work together again.

 

[BLUElightCory]

She's an incredible talent, best of luck to her. On a selfish level I'm relieved that she is going to continue writing music, EGTTR's soundtrack is among the best I've ever heard.

 

[outunderthestars]

I wish her the best of luck. That said it is hard to know enough from that blog post to have anything else to say.

 

[Theanine3D]

The sexism she's had to deal with is an enormous blight on our industry. I truly hope things change for the better someday because what she's gone through is totally inexcusable.

I hope to still see many more years of creative output from her. As someone who also suffers from a similar health situation, her post really hit close to home. It's incredibly sad when your mind is just bursting with creative ideas you want to make happen, but you already know you won't live long enough to do even half of them. Her decision to acknowledge and accept her situation was a mature one and I wish her the best.

 

[dhonk]

fucking sucks to read some of this.

 

[Cave Johnson]

She didn't say Sony was evil. In fact, we don't know what happened for sure. I just think it's not OK to say someone couldn't handle it while they had eight years of game industry experience, while making a successful small studio with a severe illness in the way. You may say everything you can to diminish their accomplishments, but sorry, you cannot say she just couldn't handle the business side.

You know, I am a co-founder of a studio. I'm not sure if you are in this industry, but it is incredibly difficult to break in. Have a mod turn into a game and make it profitable in its first day, get awards for it, then create a sequel for one of the most acclaimed horror games of the last decade (because Frictional believed in their version), sell 400k copies in one month and then work on their first console exclusive (and third full game ever), make it also profitable is not easy at all. It's really hard. And with a severe illness in the way.

Let's just forget what is the publisher here. It doesn't really matter if it's Sony or any other. The fact is that there are many bad stories out there about how developers are treated in their relationship makes her story very understandable. I'm not saying that it was the most horrible thing ever. I'm just saying that it was enough to make a talented person to leave the industry to try and preserve her health and well-being, but that it can also keep happening with others.

So, please, don't say she got the first taste of corporate business and couldn't handle. She got a taste of what is the industry right now and there's so much room for improvement. That should be discussed.

Thanks for your insight. It's rare to see developers actually come down and shed some light in regards to the industry. I wonder what motivation do you have to start-up a gaming studio knowing the climate of this cut-throat industry?

 

[Blackthorn]

I wasn't prepared to read something so devastatingly sad. Hard to know what to say.

And dudes, there's no need to try so hard to explain away sexism, the rest of the world has you covered.