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CitizenCon 2015 - Squadron 42 + Mark Hamill? + Fidelity

The demo was hard-coded sequence rather than live gameplay because half the stuff they're showing of hasn't actually been implemented. Last year's Doom trailer is a great example of a scripted demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpxDFExwhU.




Actual live gameplay and not this scripted crap they keep showing off?



Then why is SC struggling to complete the basic functions it's competitor has already completed? There's no excuse for the PU and FPS modules not being ready. Instead were left with the buggy dog-fighting and two walking simulators.

And Elite Dangerous did get investors. Companies can use a successful Kickstarter to show that their project is viable and has market interest. Actually I think SC is the only large-scale crowdfunded project without any outside investment.



There was very little development done prior to the Kickstarter. The bulk of it was done post-funding.

You're entirely wrong, there was a live demo at gamescom and in fact it didn't go to plan because the Constellation blew up.

You can't leave your ship in Elite. There's a pretty basic element right there Elite currently does not have. SC is not building a procedural universe either, which would take far less time. Elite has FAR fewer assets compared to SC, that is a fact.
 
There was very little development done prior to the Kickstarter. The bulk of it was done post-funding.

Funny what you can do when you have the full studio developing the game under you.

CIG didn't exist until after the kickstarter campaign.
Three years ago today, when Star Citizen was announced, there was a total of 7 employees. 20 employees in 2/2013. 32 employees 6/2013. By the time they released that first module in 8/2013, they had a total of 40 employees. They didn't break 100 employees until almost a year later.

They had to go from 7 employees working in a basement to 270 employees working across the world in 4 major studios. It's not like they had $91 million in the beginning.
 
Just wanted to point this out for anyone complaining about expensive ship prices.

They kind of point out in every sale and literally have a disclaimer at the end of every ship sale article on the website that no one needs to buy the ships they sell, it's just to pay for development.

Remember: we are offering this pledge ship to help fund Star Citizen’s development. All decorative ‘flare’ items will also be available to acquire in the finished game world. The goal is to make additional ships available that give players a different experience rather than a particular advantage when the persistent universe launches.
 
Yeah, Star Citizen didn't really begin full production until the beginning of 2014. Pretty much everything done in 2013 by the initial skeleton crew has been scrapped and redone — the ship models, the hangar levels, the game launcher, basically everything but the website.
 
Holy shit that cast.

They're sparing no expenses. Chris Roberts is a crazy man.

The facial animation is much better than I was expecting, although it does look a bit eerie from the nose up, eyes don't animate as well as the lower face. Camerawork was kinda bad to me though, seemed that it was moving way faster than it had any reason to. But that's just me.

edit: This alpha is looking alpha as fuck, jeez.
 
Funny what you can do when you have the full studio developing the game under you.

CIG didn't exist until after the kickstarter campaign.
Three years ago today, when Star Citizen was announced, there was a total of 7 employees. 20 employees in 2/2013. 32 employees 6/2013. By the time they released that first module in 8/2013, they had a total of 40 employees. They didn't break 100 employees until almost a year later.

They had to go from 7 employees working in a basement to 270 employees working across the world in 4 major studios. It's not like they had $91 million in the beginning.

They had 80 employees by the time the first module had released, and what was only counting internal workers. They've made heavy use of outsourcing; at one point the game had over 500 pairs of hands working on it.
 
For those concerned that the employee count isn't high enough, that number doesn't count outsourcing. Star Citizen has Chinese studios producing generic props to populate the persistent universe — stuff like cups and chairs and boxes. That number also doesn't count their AI partner (Moon Collider) or Behaviour, a Montreal company that's done a lot of work on the UI and building environments. It also probably doesn't count the website team (Turbulent) or their previous partners that they don't work with anymore (Void Alpha, CGBot and Illfonic).

Enough people will have worked on the game to finish it.
Assuming they don't run out of money in the next few months, am I right, Derek Smart? Ah, you prob'ly don't know how to read spoiler-tagged text anyway.
 
Don't you understand that this is where the problem lies? Elite Dangerous which is probably the best comparison to this game was funded, developed, and shipped in 3 years. A game with this much financial backing and manpower should not be in Alpha right now.

Elite is still not a game that they promised or what old Elite was. It will be after some expansions, but it still isnt.
I'm personally not buying Elite till i will have an ability to explore planets.
Also both games have completely different priorities.
 
Don't you understand that this is where the problem lies? Elite Dangerous which is probably the best comparison to this game was funded, developed, and shipped in 3 years. A game with this much financial backing and manpower should not be in Alpha right now.

Different scopes of development. ED used a procedural generated universe so they are not crafting all the systems by hand like SC. ED also shipped pretty barebones and I argue that ED is in development with their expansions stretched out over the next few years with no SP campaign.

Although I wish SC would've taken the logical step of nailing down the core gameplay first like ED.
 
Seems okay, not sure the cast is needed but different budgets, I know.
What strikes me the most is... as soon as you have the slightest concern or voice some critisism, people jump on you here.
 
Seems okay, not sure the cast is needed but different budgets, I know.
What strikes me the most is... as soon as you have the slightest concern or voice some critisism, people jump on you here.

Well there is actual criticism and the "lawl vapor ware" criticism. There are plenty of issues when it comes to their core gameplay design, creep of mini games and fluff, controls and development process. People running to say it's scam et al are completely baseless to anyone who follows the updates the put out constantly.
 
Seems okay, not sure the cast is needed but different budgets, I know.
What strikes me the most is... as soon as you have the slightest concern or voice some critisism, people jump on you here.

Well there are some overpassionate fans for sure but you have to understand that this game attracts shitposting and concern trolls like no other game. It gets a bit tiresome to say the least.

That's why a lot of people might come off as overly defensive.
 
Seems okay, not sure the cast is needed but different budgets, I know.
What strikes me the most is... as soon as you have the slightest concern or voice some critisism, people jump on you here.

There is difference between jumping on stupid argument and proper criticism.
I've actually been critical about their showcase on CitizenCon, which i dont think was great or to standard i was expecting, but some arguments people are posting are just dumb.
 
There is difference between jumping on stupid argument and proper criticism.
I've actually been critical about their showcase on CitizenCon, which i dont think was great or to standard i was expecting, but some arguments people are posting are just dumb.

Just on the last page a poster was not that impressed with the animations and people respond with "what the fuck did I just read" ... I mean, it is a valid statement.
 
Just on the last page a poster was not that impressed with the animations and people respond with "what the fuck did I just read" ... I mean, it is a valid statement.

Yeah, thats bad.
But i think animations are really good, what is missing, is proper lighting [SVOGI come on] and shadow rendering. I think those things will up the fidelity enough to be quality i was expecting from this game.
 
Yeah, thats bad.
But i think animations are really good, what is missing, is proper lighting [SVOGI come on] and shadow rendering. I think those things will up the fidelity enough to be quality i was expecting from this game.

I dont think fideflity will be a problem with SC. I am just worried this has too many unfinished puzzle pieces and the end result will not fit together completely. And then they add more unfinished alpha stuff and more and more... and it does not come together.
 
Well before they concentrate on ZOMG GRAPHICSSS they should rather make the core gameplay smooth and reliable first.

That's one thing I can agree on. It seems the most sensible thing to me. But then again I know nothing about game development.
 
Well before they concentrate on ZOMG GRAPHICSSS they should rather make the core gameplay smooth and reliable first.

Different development teams

--
I dont think fideflity will be a problem with SC. I am just worried this has too many unfinished puzzle pieces and the end result will not fit together completely. And then they add more unfinished alpha stuff and more and more... and it does not come together.

Thats exactly why they are releasing game to the public, to get feedback to make it better.
 
Different scopes of development. ED used a procedural generated universe so they are not crafting all the systems by hand like SC. ED also shipped pretty barebones and I argue that ED is in development with their expansions stretched out over the next few years with no SP campaign.

Although I wish SC would've taken the logical step of nailing down the core gameplay first like ED.

That's not an excuse. SC's core is still broken or unimplemented.
 
Well, that was pretty awesome. And the highest fidelity real time rendered beard I've ever seen. Really good skin shading too.

I do feel like paying all those actors might be a bit of a waste development of money though.

I think it's a good long-term move from a marketing standpoint. It'll help bring in people who are looking for an entertainment experience and don't care as much about the technical details.
 
Prove it.

You keep repeating it over and over again, so prove it. Prove that it was not being played. Prove that what they were playing was "not implemented". Go ahead.

I took 'scripted' to mean that the gameplay had known parameters and wasn't spontaneous. This is pretty much the case for many gameplay demos. Not unusual.
 
I took 'scripted' to mean that the gameplay had known parameters and wasn't spontaneous. This is pretty much the case for many gameplay demos. Not unusual.

He's a known detractor and is trying to downplay the progress they have made. The same type of criticism will be spewed even when 2.0 is available, just watch.
 
He's a known detractor and is trying to downplay the progress they have made. The same type of criticism will be spewed even when 2.0 is available, just watch.

What? This is literally the first SC thread I've posted in. So know I'm on the blacklist because I gave negative criticism?

You know what? I'm not surprised. The Star Citizen community is one of the most toxic and delusional I've ever seen. If you guys want to keep throwing money into the black hole of game development this game became, I'm not going to try and stop you. Just don't try and drag other people down with you.
 
So the artists should stop what they're doing until the game play is finished?

Ya, never understood that criticism. Artists are usually not very good at designing gameplay mechanics and gameplay designers usually aren't the people you want creating top-tier art. Different groups are working on different things in parallel.
 
What? This is literally the first SC thread I've posted in. So know I'm on the blacklist because I gave negative criticism?

Not exactly the first.

Why should I believe anything else you say?


You know what? I'm not surprised. The Star Citizen community is one of the most toxic and delusional I've ever seen.

How so? Any examples you could post? Probably not. I suspect that you'll believe this no matter what...


If you guys want to keep throwing money into the black hole of game development this game became, I'm not going to try and stop you. Just don't try and drag other people down with you.

Okay, see - you've already made up your mind about what this game is and what it's going to be.

Drag other people down? What? You seem like one of the anti-crowdfunding crusaders who think they're the gatekeepers of future game development. Talk about a toxic community...
 
Not exactly the first.

Why should I believe anything else you say?

What? One of those posts was about the article, one was about WoW, the other two were made after I posted in this thread. This is the first thread where I've talked to anyone about the state of SC's development.

How so? Any examples you could post? Probably not. I suspect that you'll believe this no matter what...

The LGTB harassment that went unpunished for months, the death threats in chat during CitizenCon, the mods on the official site that banning anyone that even whispers "development hell". Hell, there are people in this thread in denial about the game being in development for four years despite Christ Roberts himself literally saying the opposite.

Okay, see - you've already made up your mind about what this game is and what it's going to be.

Drag other people down? What? You seem like one of the anti-crowdfunding crusaders who think they're the gatekeepers of future game development. Talk about a toxic community...

Pillars of Eternity, Elite: Dangerous, Broken Age just to name a few--all well-managed crowdfunded projects that delivered most, if not all their goals.

And yet Star Citizen keeps promising more and more without delivering anything. Arena Commander is still buggy as hell on top of missing a ton of features. Hangars still haven't been integrated. The social module is a walking simulator. FPS missed all three of its deadlines and has now been delayed indefinitely. The PU has been delayed indefinitely. Multi-crew has been delayed indefinitely. And none of it looks anywhere close to being ready. I had no conceived notion of this game's development because of it's crowdfunded status, claiming that is absurd. But it's clear that this game has been greatly mismanaged. Scope isn't an excuse; the core of this game should be working by now, but it isn't.

I feel very confident in saying that SC with it's current feature list will never be released. At best, you'll get a watered down version missing most of it's features--exactly what happened with Freespace. At worst, the game will be cancelled entirely.
 
And yet Star Citizen keeps promising more and more without delivering anything. Arena Commander is still buggy as hell on top of missing a ton of features. Hangars still haven't been integrated. The social module is a walking simulator. FPS missed all three of its deadlines and has now been delayed indefinitely. The PU has been delayed indefinitely. Multi-crew has been delayed indefinitely. And none of it looks anywhere close to being ready. I had no conceived notion of this game's development because of it's crowdfunded status, claiming that is absurd. But it's clear that this game has been greatly mismanaged. Scope isn't an excuse; the core of this game should be working by now, but it isn't.

That's all wrong. Hope that's not too "toxic".
 
Star Citizen sounds like 5 completely different games that are being developed simultaneously, and will "magically" join together...

That's tough (if not impossible) to do, and showing every little bit of development will make it even harder.
 
What? One of those posts was about the article, one was about WoW, the other two were made after I posted in this thread. This is the first thread where I've talked to anyone about the state of SC's development.

There's four separate SC threads, but that's fine as I didn't check timestamps. I was sure I had seen you post more about it before though, so I must of confused your name with someone else. Apologies.


The LGTB harassment that went unpunished for months, the death threats in chat during CitizenCon, the mods on the official site that banning anyone that even whispers "development hell". Hell, there are people in this thread in denial about the game being in development for four years despite Christ Roberts himself literally saying the opposite.

Sounds like standard gamer bullshit to me which is prevalent throughout most of the net and is something that you could apply to almost any forum or fanbase.

I didn't know about the LGBT thing, which sucks, but again it's not exclusive to SC. I would agree that it's toxic, but as you just said "it went on for months" - meaning it stopped? A toxic community doesn't put a stop to toxic behaviour, like SC's community obviously did.

Death threats? Again, typical gamer bullshit that both sides of this coin have experienced. That's no excuse though and is abhorrent either way but did you not see the toxic behaviour of the detractors too?

I don't post on the official forums so the "development hell" threads being banned is news to me, but totally unsurprising as there are WEEKLY updates that show the development process and progress. It's obviously a forum rule so why is that toxic?

Star Citizen started development in 2011? That was the demo leading up to GDC. Period. Development of Star Citizen as we know it didn't start until December 2012 after the crowd funding campaign finished.


Pillars of Eternity, Elite: Dangerous, Broken Age just to name a few--all well-managed crowdfunded projects that delivered most, if not all their goals.

You realize that SC is a totally different beast than those games and it is still in active development, right?

And yet Star Citizen keeps promising more and more without delivering anything. Arena Commander is still buggy as hell on top of missing a ton of features. Hangars still haven't been integrated. The social module is a walking simulator. FPS missed all three of its deadlines and has now been delayed indefinitely. The PU has been delayed indefinitely. Multi-crew has been delayed indefinitely. And none of it looks anywhere close to being ready. I had no conceived notion of this game's development because of it's crowdfunded status, claiming that is absurd. But it's clear that this game has been greatly mismanaged. Scope isn't an excuse; the core of this game should be working by now, but it isn't.

You've already made up your mind about the state of things regardless of actual progress made. You refuse to see how far they've come. You want to remain willfully ignorant about it.

I feel very confident in saying that SC with it's current feature list will never be released. At best, you'll get a watered down version missing most of it's features--exactly what happened with Freespace. At worst, the game will be cancelled entirely.

I'm confident that you're talking out of your ass, but time will tell won't it? And if it does releases with all features what then? You still going to maintain this negative spin?
 
I saw this posted in one of the other Star Citizen threads:

https://youtu.be/ERmSIbiacLo

Looks really good, but I'm wondering how much of one star system this area is supposed to represent? Is this one planet? They're gonna launch with 100 star systems according to their backer goals. Have they said anything about what level of fidelity we should expect? Are they mostly handcrafted like the section above and if so how many sections will there be in every system? Will every planet in a system have a section, either barren rocks, populated or some wilderness that you can explore?
 
I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this, but whatever..
Pillars of Eternity, Elite: Dangerous, Broken Age just to name a few--all well-managed crowdfunded projects that delivered most, if not all their goals.

As far as goals go, Elite Dangerous dropped the whole offline aspect that was promised to the backers. Water under the bridge at this point, but that's a pretty huge omission. Also, at "release", it was lacking in major ways. A lot of basic stuff was only added on later. They're continuing to add things to the game over time. Some of that content is free, other stuff you'll have to pay for. At any rate, the game still has a ways to go to go before the "mile wide inch deep" gameplay critique is really non-applicable. In some areas it's actually less feature complete than even the current Star Citizen.

As for the well managed bit, Broken Age is kind of an ironic addition as they basically ran out of money during development, had to split the game into two pieces, and use the money from selling the first half to fund the later half. Granted they were the first real high value crowdfunded game and had to go into uncharted territory because of it, but it was anything but a smooth ride.

I own all the mentioned games and backed PoE and BA, so I'm not bringing up these points to disparage them. I'm merely pointing out that things weren't so perfect with them either. But feel free to give them a pass while torpedoing SC as a lost cause.
 
I saw this posted in one of the other Star Citizen threads:

https://youtu.be/ERmSIbiacLo

Looks really good, but I'm wondering how much of one star system this area is supposed to represent? Is this one planet? They're gonna launch with 100 star systems according to their backer goals. Have they said anything about what level of fidelity we should expect? Are they mostly handcrafted like the section above and if so how many sections will there be in every system? Will every planet in a system have a section, either barren rocks, populated or some wilderness that you can explore?

That is one landing zone on one planet of a system. Earth will have 3 landing zones but the number will vary. You can take a look at the star map and drill into the planets to get an idea of how many there will be. I believe that has landing zones visible.

That is the quality you can expect for each zone. They are each hand crafted and not procedurally generated because they want to maintain that quality bar.

As for outside the landing zones, there will be areas to explore (one ship comes with a buggy for this purpose exactly). It won't be planet wide maps to explore though, but I don't think they have released specifics as that is a bit further out.
 
That is the quality you can expect for each zone. They are each hand crafted and not procedurally generated because they want to maintain that quality bar.

Well, sort of. The major sites will be unique but many of the smaller ones will be composed of prefabricated buildings and elements to cut down on development times. Kinda like how WoW re-used buildings all over the place.
 
You really want this game to fail don't you?

Yeah, I want to see thousands of people watch their wallets burn and dreams get crushed. /s

I know it's impossible to convince you to back out. I just hope that some bystander reads this thread and doesn't get caught up in this mess.

Rommel said:
Just don't feed the "concern" troll

Everyone knows that if someone disagrees with you, they must be a troll. Classic internet wisdom.
 
Yeah, I want to see thousands of people watch their wallets burn and dreams get crushed. /s

I know it's impossible to convince you to back out. I just hope that some bystander reads this thread and doesn't get caught up in this mess.

So nice of you to care, but alas there are now more than 1 million backers.

Everyone knows that if someone disagrees with you, they must be a troll. Classic internet wisdom.

Your posts certainly fit a certain pattern.
 

Sorry, I missed the part where he said it was "delayed indefinitely". Not giving a release date isn't the same thing.

Yeah, I want to see thousands of people watch their wallets burn and dreams get crushed. /s

I know it's impossible to convince you to back out. I just hope that some bystander reads this thread and doesn't get caught up in this mess.

If you really gave a shit you wouldn't resort to misleading information. And you wonder about the toxic reaction to it? If you are on the right side of this why lie? Seems awful petty.
 
Well, sort of. The major sites will be unique but many of the smaller ones will be composed of prefabricated buildings and elements to cut down on development times. Kinda like how WoW re-used buildings all over the place.

Fair enough, because populating 100 systems with unique handcrafted content to the extent Iced_Eagle mentions, would take a long while.
 
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