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Civ V: Gods & Kings, Spring 2012 - religion, espionage, combat/diplomacy improvements

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I don't know how to feel about this.

I'll keep playing Rise of Nations until I hear what zee base has to say. I spent a decent amount of time modding and adjusting elements to fit what I liked, now I'm going to have to do so all over again.

Also, I fucking knew I shouldn't have bought any of those Civilization DLCs and waited.
 
I got boned on the GOTY edition becoming so cheap.. bought this at launch and then what, a year later there is a version with more content than I have for $12? Even as a Sid Meier fanboy, I'll definitely wait till this is super cheap to snag it.
 
The way they did religion in IV was one of the things that I found frustrating about that game. I haven't missed it in V so hopefully they make it work well.
 
"If you have a spy lurking in the right place and in the right time, all of a sudden you'll get these deep dark secrets," Beach said. "The AI might be planning an attack on you 15 turns down the line."

That's right: The AI is sophisticated (and nasty) enough to plan a betrayal 15 turns in advance. And you can use your spies to find this out. Your spies can also level up, boosting their information-hunting skills. Eventually, you'll not only be able to find out when the AI will betray you, you'll be able to uncover exactly which city it plans to invade.

You can then use this information in the new diplomacy system. You can confront a computerized opponent about its future betrayal, or you can tell a third-party and ask them to get involved.

You can also send your spies into city-states, rig elections, and try to build alliances, old-school style.
Click to expand...


Okay, that sounds damn cool. It's an espionage system that the AI can't abuse against you, because they can't tell what we are planning down the road. And the diplomacy changes, being able to use info to persuade other AI's to team up against a rival...actual diplomatic interactions? That have measurable results and consequences? With game elements intertwined?

Color me impressed, and slightly more optimistic than before. I like this direction they are going, hopefully it works as it sounds it will.
 
Civ 5 was a big disappointment for me. Civ IV + expansions is still so much better. Civ IV vanilla is so much better too.

And sadly, all they need to do to get me to love Civ V is bring back throne rooms. The interior decorator in me thought that was the best part about Civ 2.
 
shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg

This is exciting news. Been a huge fan of this series since Civ 2, and actually like Civ 5. these additions sound fantastic. unfortunately I'm at work, so I'll have to read the gaming related articles later.

Civ Anon
Just one more turn.
 
Hopefully this does for Civ V what Beyond the Sword did for Civ IV - make a great game into the greatest game.
 
I'm actually pretty excited for this. I liked Civ 5 a lot; it was my first Civ game so I had no frame of reference with 4, which is probably a good thing. I've logged ~73 hours in Civ 5 and enjoyed every game. I think all the game needs in order to approve is more stuff to do during turns, which this expansion seems to address with the introduction of new units/systems.

Teh Hamburglar said:
Fix the bipolar AI. Friend becomes pissy at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...
Idk if it was me getting lucky, or if they fixed it, but I played a game around a month ago and the AI seemed to be much better than it was before. I treated my allies well, and they never turned on me and rarely got angry at me. I treated a few civs like shit, and they acted accordingly.

Meier said:
I got boned on the GOTY edition becoming so cheap.. bought this at launch and then what, a year later there is a version with more content than I have for $12? Even as a Sid Meier fanboy, I'll definitely wait till this is super cheap to snag it.
Click to expand...
Yeah this irked me too. I kinda feel like I got screwed for supporting them at launch.
 
Yes...god yes, please. I adore CIV 5 and it's improvements but vanilla CIV 5 just can't hold a candle to the depth of CIV 4. With religion and espionage coming back, looks like I can finally get rid of CIV 4 for CIV 5 exclusively. Can't fucking wait.
 
Mengy said:
But Stardock did make Galactic Civilizations II, which is an exceptional strategy game. I'd even say it's better than Civ 5 in it's current state. For me at least, GC2 holds my attention far more than Civ 5.
Click to expand...

Nah gc2 is better than civ 5 hands down.

But yeah fix the dumb ai and crap combat and I guess I'll buy your expansion... During the summer sale.
 
About damn time.

Religion as it was in Civ IV sucked. It was just some arbitrary mechanic for the AI to get mad at you about. Diplomacy improvements aren't something that people who already own Civ V should have to pay for.
 
Bought! Recently started playing Civ 5 again, over 300 hours clocked on steam now :| . 100 - 130h are from my dad though.
 
FrontalMonk said:
I'm honestly really fucking excited about this. The religion system that was in place in civ 4 would never have worked with the systems in place in Civ 5. The whole system needed to be overhauled, and it sounds like they've had the chance to do just that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I never understood the way people wanted religion in Civ 4 to be ported into Civ 5 wholesale. I'm glad they are adding it in and I hope it works well with the systems they developed for Civ 5 instead of feeling tacked on.

Teh Hamburglar said:
Fix the bipolar AI. Friend becomes pissy at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...
They are supposed to be 'bipolar' to a degree because at the end of the day, a Civ game becomes a zero-sum game where your goal is to win it. There is a clear defined goal to victory unlike EU3 or something along those lines. Also along those lines, Civ doesn't have a set of checks/balances like EU3 for diplomacy so when AIs start denouncing you or breaking off relations and declaring war on you, it's probably because the AI has decided they don't need you anymore to further their goals/you are doing too well and need to be brought down.
 
syllogism said:
I wish the screenshot showed a more interesting religion

http://i.imgur.com/6Zo5K.jpg
Click to expand...
Ok, so 11 religions named after real ones - I can recognize a few: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Daoism, Confucianism it looks like (third from left?).

Again it looks like we are just going with the big world religions for the sake of variety. Unless animism/shamanism is also on that list.

It looks like on the right, each religion has a set of predefined bonuses (grab bag of "phrases" that people probably associate with the religion, whatever). On the left it seems like the customizable half. Not sure if "idols" is a belief or it's own category. Founder belief is for founders only I guess. Followers get their own set of own beliefs you can select from.

I assume enhancer/bonus belief is like creating a sect and giving it it's own additional belief? If the last two are linked, that is.
 
Hopefully they include Civ IV's passive cultural victory stuff, where your superior culture simply overwhelms bordering cities and you can passively absorb them.
 
Teh Hamburglar said:
Fix the bipolar AI. Friend becomes pissy at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the AI is one of my biggest problems with Civ 5. So many times I find myself just playing an empire simulator where the other opponents are not really part of the game. I don't bother with their considerations or antics because none of it seems to matter. There just isn't enough feedback or information about relationships with AI rulers to give the player any idea of what is going on. This is further damaged by their seemingly random choices to turn on you sometimes, even if you have been friends and trading the entire game. The end result is that I tend to treat all AI's in Civ 5 as the enemy for the entire game.

For contrast, Galactic Civ II is a game that does the AI and diplomacy very well. You can actually do things to build relationships with opponents, and see the results, and rarely do they turn on you out of the blue when you have had a long and beneficial relationship. Alliances mean something in that game. And conversely, if you do something to piss an opponent off, they tell you about it. And if you piss a bunch of them off, they form alliances against you. And you can see exactly how they feel about you (and everyone else) from one screen.

I love diplomacy in GC2. I hardly bother with it in Civ 5. My biggest hope for the expansion is that this changes big time, because I WANT to bother with diplomacy in Civ 5, I just need a reason, a way, and some incentive to care about it.
 
Teh Hamburglar said:
Fix the bipolar AI. Friend becomes pissy at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...

This was my biggest beef with V, they wanted it feel more like you playing against other players instead of a computer, and so the AI was all cut throat all the time. In the end it just seemed like every leader had the same personality, and that personality was fuck you.

I missed the power blocs that would develop over a long game of Civ IV, and it sounds like maybe they're trying to bring that back. The interviews say that religions can be spread around and will play a large role in who your friends and enemies are early in the game, which is right out of Civ IV's playbook. Then in the late game, when the influence religion plays on other civilizations declines, the espionage system fills the void by giving you a heads up if an AI is about to go bipolar on your ass.
 
I am literally addicted to Civ V. First game I have on Steam that is over 100 hours.

The only thing I hate are the bi-polar leaders and the fact that you automatically win with diplomacy.

Who gives a shit if you have more influence over city states? My military and economy wipes the floor against yours. How do I lose the game?
 
Mengy said:
For contrast, Galactic Civ II is a game that does the AI and diplomacy very well. You can actually do things to build relationships with opponents, and see the results, and rarely do they turn on you out of the blue when you have had a long and beneficial relationship. Alliances mean something in that game. And conversely, if you do something to piss an opponent off, they tell you about it. And if you piss a bunch of them off, they form alliances against you. And you can see exactly how they feel about you (and everyone else) from one screen.

I love diplomacy in GC2. I hardly bother with it in Civ 5. My biggest hope for the expansion is that this changes big time, because I WANT to bother with diplomacy in Civ 5, I just need a reason, a way, and some incentive to care about it.
Click to expand...

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457263 ;)
 
Notrollious said:
Oh man so hyped. Please be out soon.

Any news on a date or just "spring 2012"?
Click to expand...

Late spring, apparently.

I like how they announce the Civ games. Civ V also had a relatively short time between announcement and release.

Too many games nowadays have such long times between announcement and release.
 
zoku88 said:
Late spring, apparently.

I like how they announce the Civ games. Civ V also had a relatively short time between announcement and release.

Too many games nowadays have such long times between announcement and release.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with this more. Civ V had the perfect amount of time between its announcement and release, and it looks to be the same with this expansion.
 
But!
The title of the official topic was so perfect!

...
Anyways, that's interesting, I guess.
I'm curious. And quite hyped.
 
Did we ever get Pitboss for multiplayer games?

I was so excited for Civ 5, but the multiplayer was horrible. That pretty much killed the game for me.
 
maniac-kun said:
The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.
Click to expand...

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/ef1507c8027db50585344e0a6bd72d94.jpg

Appears to be the Terracotta Army concept art. Confirmed by 2K unique URL alias.


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/f281b1cc5749654e855d43db59382dce.jpg

Petra. Confirmed by 2K unique URL alias.


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/ba0e8ef5226d63fa5d514128103b9de8.jpg


Great Mosque of Djenné, confirmed by 2K unique URL alias.


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/47211b5983250e7cd50dc35618e3a685.jpg

- Espionage Overview'; activities are 'Establishing Surveillance, Counter-intelligence, Rigging Election.
- Coup' button is available for Bucharest.
- Flight tech unlocks two air units.
- Cities in the background can be seen to have a cross symbol.
- Antwerp in the background has a triangle icon and a blue bar under the city banner.
- Looks like an espionage button in the top-right corner next to the social policy button.
- Machine Gun icon in bottom left corner.
- Icon up the top next to culture counter; could be 'faith' as described in the announcement.


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/b3347b98b6d162aa7f47f4f155f7ecde.jpg

- Religion Overview'; bunch of religious symbols across the top. 'Christianity' selected and blacked out.
- Founder Belief', 'Follower Belief', '2nd Founder Belief', 'Enhancer Belief', 'Bonus Belief'.
- 2nd Founder' and 'Enhancer' unlocked by 'enhancing religion'.
- Byzantines apparently in the game, with the 'Bonus Belief' available to them. UA?
- List of social policy like bonuses on the right-hand side.
- Iron Working unlocks The Colossus.
- Pictish Warrior unit, before Iron Working is discovered. Celt UU?

Religion Symbols:
Buddhism
Christianity
Confucianism.
Hinduism
Islam
Judaism
Shintoism
Sikhism.
Taoism
Mesoamerican religion?
Zoroastrianism


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/6287442e8b2a667821e64bdbdcbd3e25.jpg

- Combustion unlocks some WWI-type tank.
- Just under that you can see what looks like a spy icon under the city state city banner.
- Infantry looks different.
- Machine-gun units. They're ranged.
- Notification indicates an election rigged, increasing influence, decreasing opponent influence.


http://downloads.2kgames.com/2kgames/uploads/images/community/ingame_william_sm-14311-cropped.jpg

William of the Dutch.


http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/d98e8d45c8eb8869d6dd22f886d7456b.jpg

Pacal

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2012/02/105d85b5073c26ac58806f7ebc1a93a2.jpg

Boudicca
 
JoeTheBlow said:
I knew it, fucking KNEW that they whipped out religion for a DLC pack.

This is one of gamings greatest atrocities!
Click to expand...

I would assume that what you said was partly the reason but I also think that espionage and religion require a lot of balancing to get it right, and they had to figure out how to balance it properly before it made its way in the game.

*shrug*
 
I'm tepidly interested. I would really like to get more bang for my Civ V buck but the gameplay and AI of vanilla just were not working well. I'd also love an expanded tech tree but that could just be me spoiled from all the Civ IV mods.

Also, I hope the DLC Civs are bundled in this. I'm not buying those things separate.
 
Civ V was my first Civ game so maybe this makes me a fool, but I really enjoyed it and have poured dozens of hours into it. The patches have improved the diplomacy and AI significantly as well. It has its quirks, and the AI is a bit bipolar, but that's what happens when you play a game with a defined "win" condition.

I'll gladly pick this up.
 
Tookay said:
Civ V was my first Civ game so maybe this makes me a fool, but I really enjoyed it and have poured dozens of hours into it. The patches have improved the diplomacy and AI significantly as well. It has its quirks, and the AI is a bit bipolar, but that's what happens when you play a game with a defined "win" condition.

I'll gladly pick this up.
Click to expand...

Your not a fool, Civ 5 is a fine game. It just needs more stuff which is what we are finally getting.
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
Who gives a shit if you have more influence over city states? My military and economy wipes the floor against yours. How do I lose the game?
Click to expand...

Economy pretty much allows you to buy city states influence, so that's not really an issue.
The problem seems to be that the AI can't manage their economy so in a lategame situation if you notice someone trying to win by diplomatic victory you can just use one turn to become the the ally of every city state.
 
Tookay said:
The patches have improved the diplomacy and AI significantly as well.
Click to expand...

They are still terrible. One of the main problems with Civ V is they advanced the strategy of combat farther than they could advance the AI. As for the diplomacy it's nonexistent. You could be nothing but the nicest guy to an AI who isn't even on the same continent as you for 1000s of years and all the sudden they will flip their shit over nothing, declare war on you and proceed to do nothing but demand that you give up your entire empire in exchange for a peace treaty for the rest of the game. There is no real way of gaining real allies/enemies for long periods of time. This expansion implies that it will fix that. We shall see.
 
SamVimes said:
Economy pretty much allows you to buy city states influence, so that's not really an issue.
The problem seems to be that the AI can't manage their economy so in a lategame situation if you notice someone trying to win by diplomatic victory you can just use one turn to become the the ally of every city state.
Click to expand...

That's still a stupid way to win though.

"Winning' should be based on military strength, economy, and quality of life.

Diplomacy should play a big role, but not THAT big of a role.

Cday said:
You could be nothing but the nicest guy to an AI who isn't even on the same continent as you for 1000s of years and all the sudden they will flip their shit over nothing, declare war on you and proceed to do nothing but demand that you give up your entire empire in exchange for a peace treaty for the rest of the game. There is no real way of gaining real allies/enemies for long periods of time. This expansion implies that it will fix that. We shall see.
Click to expand...

This is the worst. Them not accepting anything other than owning ALL of my resources and cash is ridiculous. But what's more annoying is how they often don't send military of any kind against me.
 
Loved Civ V, this expansion has definitely piqued my interest.

- Religion! I'll admit, I was not fond of this in Civ IV, where it was little more than a sticker on your civilization to make instant friends or enemies. The rebuilt system they're positing here sounds like it'd be a good fit for the game, much more customizable and less of a crude +/- modifier on the diplomacy screen.

- Espionage! This one I missed, and judging from the interview it's being integrated into the diplomacy system wonderfully. Preempting an AI's preemptive strike? Yes please. This was something you could already divine from watching troop movements at border regions, but being able to confirm it well in advance with spies is a great mechanic.

- The Diplomacy overhaul sounds interesting. Didn't like how you had to throw cash at city states to win diplomatically, it got very monotonous quickly. Hopefully having more actions to win your way into their hearts will pan out.
 
Nice, Civ 5 is an ok game, but in my opinion civ 4 was way superior.

Awful combat AI, no religion and terrible diplomacy were pretty much the reason I hated the game. If they fix all that I won't feel so robbed. Having to buy an expansion pack just to fix the issues sucks though.
 
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