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Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 Just Exposed Everyone
- Thread starter KyoZz
- Start date
Topher
Identifies as young
I see just as much effort going into crying about the "glazing" as the "glazing" itself.
Mayar
Member
Well, it's actually all very simple here.
Pentiment an indie game? - Obsidian Entertainment is wholly owned by Microsoft, so no
What about Hellblade 2 - Ninja Theory is wholly owned by Microsoft, so no. But the first part, yes, back then they were still an independent studio.
Tomodachi Life - I may be wrong, but isn't this game developed by Nintendo?
Sandfall Interactive is currently completely independent. It's certainly possible that, like Ninja Theory, someone will try to acquire them on the wave of their success.
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KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Quickly done so... yeah not the best. Anyway:Come on man, give me TL;DW
Tiny team, tiny budget.
Sandfall Interactive is around 30/35 devs, people saying it's more are counting stupid things like localization teams, every person who played in the orchestra etc...
Writer found on Reddit, composer on Soundcloud. Outsourced localization, some animations and QA.
AAA games like Spider-Man 2/Borderlands 4 are around $300M, CoD is $450-700M
COEX33 had similar budgets/funding as the likes of Hades/Hollow Knight/Disco Elysium
Sandfall is 100% independent, not owned by anyone nor has entered stock market
Small team proves no need for bloated budgets/delays/scandals/crunch
AAA = unsustainable greed (bureaucracy, shareholder slop, live service fails)
Indies win w/ vision > scale
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Punished Miku
Banned
So Ninja Gaiden 4 is an indie game along with Dragon Quest 3 HD. Checks out. Sekiro was an indie game
.. all Souls games actually.
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mèx
Gold Member
A 10 minutes video which includes scripting, editing, QA and recording vs a 5 seconds post.
Exactly the same thing.
viveks86
Member
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Appreciate it man!
How tiny are we talking about when it comes to budget? Not that it matters imo when it comes to defining what's "indie" or not, but I'm curious.
I wouldn't call QA or localization "stupid things". QA specially takes a TON of time and effort. There's more than 400 people credited for the game, and honestly that's where I have the problem when calling this an indie game, maybe more so than having a publisher which (should?) be the objective criteria.
Because come on, putting a 400 man effort with more than a million of dollars in budget at the same height as stuff like Manor Lords, Factorio or Cave Story doesn't seem fair to me, at all.
Oh yeah we agree on this 100%. The suits that run the big AAA companies won't ever have the passion of a team of made of actual gamers.
Topher
Identifies as young
A 10 minutes video which includes scripting, editing, QA and recording vs a 5 seconds post.
Exactly the same thing.
Talking about posting here on GAF. There are a shitton of videos saying whatever you want them to say. Put Clair Obscur in the title of a thread and you'd think only fans of the game would have any interest, but you'd think wrong.
Punished Miku
Banned
Do you guys think the indie devs paid out of pocket for the orchestra and Ben Starr and Charlie Cox and outsourcing? Weird. Wonder who paid for that stuff. I guess they saved up 10 million before leaving Ubisoft.
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Durin
Member
I'm at a point where both the glazing and bitching for the game are starting to get annoying for me.
What I do still like is the success of E33 will likely yield more turn-based games, and more AA productions in general. The revenue generated by this game for an under $10 million budget is something most companies want.
What I do still like is the success of E33 will likely yield more turn-based games, and more AA productions in general. The revenue generated by this game for an under $10 million budget is something most companies want.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Thread title was a little bit provocative. It's not like people are barging on the OT to shit on the game.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
95% positive reviews on Steam (with 225k reviews) and even 62% of respondents in the other thread agreed it deserved its awards. So yeah you're definitely not the only one.
I was skeptical about this game and picked it up only because the initial reviews were so overwhelmingly positive. I figured there was a good chance I'd bounce off of it after 5-10 hours (which happens with LOTS of games for me). It ended up being the best JRPG I've played in the last decade and one of my all time favorites. And I've been playing a shitload of JRPGs since the early 90s (started with FF1, but Shining Force was the one that really hooked me on the genre).
Yeah it's not for everyone (no game is). But there are definitely some folks who are really salty about seeing a non-Japanese, non-anime JRPG getting so much mainstream critical + commercial success, and they're trying sooo so hard to convince themselves that it's just ignorant JRPG noobs and anime haters glazing this game.
Mayar
Member
Ninja Gaiden 4 - Koei Tecmo, PlatinumGames - It is an independent company, but develops games under contract.
Dragon Quest 3 HD - Although Square Enix loves to slap its logo on everything, this game was developed under contract with ARTDINK studio.
Don't confuse independent development with development when one studio, at the request of another studio and under an existing contract, develops a game for the other studio.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Why come into the thread then?
Because bullshit shouldn't be let stand without comment ?
And in this case the proof of the bullshit is the self report of "it cost less than 10million to make" and yet sill is described as somehow "indie".
Cos truly everyone's getting 5 years and 9 million plus to make anything they want.
I don't want to bash the game, the team or Sandfall.
Just pointing out that it had way more support than the overwhelming majority of devs outside of the big publishing scene get, or ever will enjoy.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Thread title is from the video where it talks about exposing the AAA publishers and all the bullshit in the industry that so many hate. That's automatically "glazing" the game somehow. Probably better if more people actually watched the video.
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Punished Miku
Banned
Do you think Sandfall signed any contracts with Kepler? Do you think Sandfall made this game with zero funding from anyone?
The only reason to even make a separate award at all is to showcase developers without a publisher and external funding, or else don't even make it a category.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
You are probably right, but I'm going to be honest with you man: I asked for a TLDW (that the already OP provided, thx again!) because I really, really don't like when someone opens a thread with just a video and expects everyone to watch it before engaging on the topic.
Probably just me but I think that's a bit impolite, but I'd understand if I'd be the weird one here.
Mayar
Member
If you want to release a physical game, you're in a desperate situation, you need a publisher and logistics. Even the guys at Hades had to strike a deal with Take 2. Blueprince had to sign a contract with Raw, even Balatro had a physical publisher. This is too much of a burden for small studios, or the game will be stuck in digital form forever or if Limiter Run doesn't pick it up.
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Topher
Identifies as young
You are probably right, but I'm going to be honest with you man: I asked for a TLDW (that the already OP provided, thx again!) because I really, really don't like when someone opens a thread with just a video and expects everyone to watch it before engaging on the topic.
Probably just me but I think that's a bit impolite, but I'd understand if I'd be the weird one here.
Yeah, I can get that. I think it is too easy to make wrong assumptions about what the video is about. I've done it too.
KàIRóS
Member
I saw this coming since Unreal Engine 5 was revealed, most players just see graphics and couldn't care less about the development process or how much money it required and since there's barely a graphics gap from the last gen it doesn't surprise me how many players consider E33 a big budget game even though it isn't, it also happened last year with Black Myth Wukong that game technically has a similar story to E33 in terms of development, and we would have likely seen these types of threads if it had won GOTY last year.
"The budget for the whole thing is less than 10 million dollars" quote from the video.
Well, this is also the case for the vast majority of games ever created, AAA games with huge budgets are a minority and most indie devs would love to have 10 million dollars for their first game, but the reality is most barely raise enough to self-publish their game on Steam, while E33 was revealed in an Xbox Showcase, has a publisher, well known Voice Actors, etc. Most indies can't afford that at all.
E33 is in a weird position here, it is an indie game in some ways but also isn't in others but I don't think it exposed anything really, AAAs have been mostly stinkers for this whole gen, the more hardcore gamers know this and the casuals don't really care and keep buying them thanks to their big budget marketing.
"The budget for the whole thing is less than 10 million dollars" quote from the video.
Well, this is also the case for the vast majority of games ever created, AAA games with huge budgets are a minority and most indie devs would love to have 10 million dollars for their first game, but the reality is most barely raise enough to self-publish their game on Steam, while E33 was revealed in an Xbox Showcase, has a publisher, well known Voice Actors, etc. Most indies can't afford that at all.
E33 is in a weird position here, it is an indie game in some ways but also isn't in others but I don't think it exposed anything really, AAAs have been mostly stinkers for this whole gen, the more hardcore gamers know this and the casuals don't really care and keep buying them thanks to their big budget marketing.
Punished Miku
Banned
You mean, like real indie games. The kind of small project that could really benefit from exposure instead of glazing E33 again for an award it doesn't even qualify for.
Fbh
Gold Member
As a fellow JRPG expert I heard much about the normie fake JRPG and couldn't believe how bad it was.
- No pre pubescent kids in the party?
- No anime girls with annoying high pitched voices?
- 2 of the main characters are basically siblings and it's not implied at least one of them wants to fuck the other?
- Characters don't learn that friendship is good 457 times during the story and go on a monologue about it before every single boss fight?
- No scene where they are at a hot spring and generic anime boy accidentally holds hands with generic anime girl and they blush?
- Right when I was getting ready for another 45 hours of mind numblingly repetitive bloat the game just ends? wtf?!?!
Now that they have more money I hope Sandfall can hire some proper japanese consulting for their next game. At least give me some character wearing 84 belts, mysterious people in robes and some villains going on barely coherent monologues that sounds like a 7th grader writing Shakespeare
Mayar
Member
I honestly don't see how this could affect the game. If the game is really interesting. I've played : Blue Prince, Hollow Knight, 33, Dispatch, Eriksholm, Hades and others. And for some reason, 33 hasn't stopped me from trying these games. If a game looks interesting and captivates players, they'll definitely give it a try. And don't underestimate the power of word of mouth among players: if something truly exciting appears, it immediately spreads across all platforms.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
My likeness is accurate. Just wish it scrolled down to see my massive python.
GermanZepp
Member
Magic-DEI-Hire
Gold Member
Topher
Identifies as young
This is a forum about video games so what are people supposed to "move on" to? Favorite bread pudding recipes?
Itchy Tickles
Member
While some of you are weirdly personally so upset about "another" Clair Obscure topic, I am loving the salt and jealousy from you, all while yas are being hypocrites. I didn't even watch the video, I am just reading the dear diaries in a thread they didn't have to enter.
It is weird how so many are trying to gatekeep or define what an "indie" is or if this game is any good. Is it weebs upset this turned based game is much better than a lot of copy paste games in recent memory? Is it Silksong fanboys crying because they got overshadowed?
It is weird how so many are trying to gatekeep or define what an "indie" is or if this game is any good. Is it weebs upset this turned based game is much better than a lot of copy paste games in recent memory? Is it Silksong fanboys crying because they got overshadowed?
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Because the money thrown around in a meaningless award show wankfest like TGA is totally the 1 thing that could ever legitimize a small/indie/low budget production as worthy so of course we've never had an indie/non AAA game be so great before 2025, it's the first one ever, what an exposé 
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KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
We don't have the exact budget, but we know it's less than $10M.
Me neither, I agree with you. All I'm saying is it's stupid to count them as part of the core team. Or I'm part of the team that created Alan Wake 2 since I did, in fact, participate in the QA for that game (and I'm credited too!). QA is super useful tho, and way too often neglected..
Some people are mentioned multiple time because they had multiple positions, credits also include every person that played an instrument for the game etc... I think it's unfair to judge the game on this.
The core team is around 30/35 people, this is the number you need to know. If you want you can also count the 6 outsourced people who made some combat animations because they where super helpful apparently.
They where able to get this budget thanks to Euro fundings and because Kepler saw the potential, so they literally went all in with this game. Even granting the recording of the OST by a real orchestra.
It's a big budget for sure but at the same time... it's nothing and a far cry from any AAA.
The studio itself is a real stroke of luck with how everything went together at the right time, in the right place for this game to even exist.
They're too stupid to understand that if you make a quality game and respect your players, they will follow you everywhere (blindly, too).
Which is really baffling to me, I wish I was a billionaire I'd change the gaming landscape in 10 years lol.
You sir, are 100% right and I hate it too.You are probably right, but I'm going to be honest with you man: I asked for a TLDW (that the already OP provided, thx again!) because I really, really don't like when someone opens a thread with just a video and expects everyone to watch it before engaging on the topic.
Probably just me but I think that's a bit impolite, but I'd understand if I'd be the weird one here.
BUT
This one is probably the first topic I've created without any context inside. Even when I post for a TGA "WORLD PREMIERE" (you need to do the voice reading that), I edit it afterwards when more information is available. If I only post a video in a new thread, it's because it's coming from an already well know release. Worst part is I already called out someone for doing just that
So why I didn't do a TLDR? Real reason is my raclette cheese was ready
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
its too much now, there are other gaming topics we can talk about.
This game reminds me of kim kardashian news many years ago.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
And where's all the grunting and sighing? So much narrative richness is lost when the characters don't grunt or sigh every time a thought pops into someone's head.
FF VII Remake cranked that up to 11 for the English localization while E33 embarrassingly omitted it altogether. Just shameless pandering to the normie dudebro audience.
Senua
Member
Just ignore the threads about the game if you don't like it, there's a function for that
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
no i can post whenever the fuck i want.
Mayar
Member
There are only three topics for discussion on neogaf.
1) Discussion of popular games
2) Microsoft did something wrong again
3) Jez Corden posted something
P.S - The appearance of the last topic is entirely the fault of -
Topher
There are, of course, other topics, but they usually appear on Saturday or Sunday and are usually made under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Hasn't it been pointed out a few hundred times by now that participation in any thread is optional? If you don't want to talk about CO.....don't.
Fbh
Gold Member
What gaijins (and obviously Sandfall) don't understand is that what sounds like pointless grunting is actually an intertextual homage to the silence between thoughts, where meaning truly resides.
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John Bilbo
Member
Indie = no publisher
store.steampowered.com
E33 was published by Kepler.
E33 is not indie.
Steam Publisher: Kepler Interactive
Kepler Interactive publishes games built on bold, precise ideas, each one crafted by creators inspired by art and culture. Not just games, interactive art.
E33 is not indie.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
That's a fuckton of money. Way, way more than I'd say 95% of indies have access to.
Wow that's cool. If you ask me, yeah for sure you were part of the team. I haven't work on the vidya industry, but I've worked for 10 years as software developer and having QA people on the team is a goddamn blessing. Takes away a LOT of my work load, lets me focus on developing new stuff and to be honest, they are way, way better than me at spotting bugs, no contest.
List I found was 416 unique people, with a total of around 500 credits. Might be wrong or might be right, but still, a lot of people.
Nobody, or at least not me are judging the game here. Sure I didn't like it, but I still see it as a well produced game and way, way better than most of the stuff that comes out nowadays.
Sorry but you won't convince me on this. More than 400 people still worked on the game, with roles that guaranteed being credited for them so I doubt it was something like delivering coffees or taking the office dog on a walk.
A far cry from AAA which is a great thing seeing how the game turned out. But I still believe this is closer to a "small production" or AA game rather than an indie. And if it's an indie, then we need a new term for games I mentioned earlier like Factorio or Cave Story. Auteur-games? Sleeping at mom's basement while I survive on chicken tendies-games? Dunno, but I believe a distinction should be made.
Haha yeah you and me both. Honeslty I believe the problem comes to how modern corporations are "data-driven". They won't take any sort of risk unless it's being analyzed and proven profitable. And with how slow game development is, a lot of the time this means that they come late to the party and the game bombs. I good example of this would be the over-focus on gaas games.
BUT
Hahaha lol. Yeah sorry but I don't know who the dude who posted that video is. I'm way out of the loop when it comes to that.This one is probably the first topic I've created without any context inside. Even when I post for a TGA "WORLD PREMIERE" (you need to do the voice reading that), I edit it afterwards when more information is available. If I only post a video in a new thread, it's because it's coming from an already well know release. Worst part is I already called out someone for doing just that
Enjoy it man! and thanks for the banter.So why I didn't do a TLDR? Real reason is my raclette cheese was ready
dreamstation
Member
That goes for any game really.
Mayar
Member
Indie = no publisher
E33 was published by Kepler.Steam Publisher: Kepler Interactive
Kepler Interactive publishes games built on bold, precise ideas, each one crafted by creators inspired by art and culture. Not just games, interactive art.
E33 is not indie.
saintjules
Gold Member
Topher
Identifies as young
Plenty of games get very little attention in threads because folks truly don't care about them. Some people are just triggered if too many people are praising a game they don't like it, especially when it comes to awards time.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Punished Miku
Banned
If it can't affect the game then by definition there is zero reason to have any indie category. The only reason it exists is to give exposure to games with no backing, self funded, and no publisher. By definition they can't even have physical releases. Indie games weren't even really a thing until digital distribution made low cost democratized self-publishing possible.
Publishing is money. Connections for hiring people like Charlie Cox and other voice actors through their agents. Connections for outsourcing. Connections to secure a GP deal and more money. Money and resources, physical releases and exposure. Thats publishing.
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