SirClinksAlot
Member
He's making fun of Cliffy who once tweeted "Macklemore is the first rapper with something to say".
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Cliff Bleszinski addresses the differences between Lawbreakers and Overwatch
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
He's making fun of Cliffy who once tweeted "Macklemore is the first rapper with something to say".
Zarathos no Daimaoh
Neo Member
Thing is , even in his game , there will be equivalent of this . The prob is pretending that it's a foregone conclusion all the time , and an actual issue , just to hype your game .
Perfect balance only exist in boring games , or in games with everyone starting with the same tools and advantages
R_thanatos
Member
What's the point of playing a game about teams that isn't balanced ?
You can still play fps , tps that are about your skill as a players instead of co-operations if you want , but that's not the point of the game nor blizzard fault for a "balancing act" that aim of making the playing field fair for everyone
Overwatch Muse was team fortress 2 , not unreal tournament
TheCanisDirus
Member
A log of the anti gravity areas really slow the gameplay which I don't really enjoy. I'd personally not mind a bit of those were off the maps and only character induced.
Yeah I agree with you there.
BRocknRolla
Member
As much as I love Overwatch, I disagree. He's not wrong in a lot of situations.
Characters do have hard counters, and while one person can make mistakes and the other play well to overcome that, if both are playing well, you're probably dead if you get caught on the wrong side of that match up.
As for the second... That's really not true. Short of using a super, if you're lone-wolfing it against a team, you're most likely dead in pretty short order. It's part of what makes Overwatch a truly team game.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Don't think I've seen this tweet before. I thought he'd given up insulting everyone because he's independent now and needs the audience?
Fallout-NL
Member
Meh, so is Overwatch's cartoony/stylized look. There's room for both.
WoW in particular was gradually rebalanced over time to cater more heavily towards 2v2/3v3 arena PvP implemented in 2007, and a lot of people feel really alienated over that. The more overarching balance has over time also made all the different classes mechanically homogenized and neutered their original identity and uniqueness, since that's pretty much the only viable outcome of "perfect" game balance. I believe there is such a thing as games being too balanced which makes them feel sterile. MrBTongue touches on the subject in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLIq4ceXZAw
Zarathos no Daimaoh
Neo Member
Hard counters , not unbreakable laws and unsurmontable odds .... the matches are currently full of defiance of such foregone conclusions . And obviously the dev team is looking out for absolutes in term of characters and will try to address them when needed
So no he's wrong , he's trying to make it a sure thing , again to hype his own take . And he's yet to prove that his game won't suffer the same issues , if not worse
Sure difference of skills are the main reasons for those exceptions ... but honestly , even in a tourney settings , it's luck of the draw to see people of absolutely the same level of skills duke it out with characters countering each other .
So no he's wrong , he's trying to make it a sure thing , again to hype his own take . And he's yet to prove that his game won't suffer the same issues , if not worse
Sure difference of skills are the main reasons for those exceptions ... but honestly , even in a tourney settings , it's luck of the draw to see people of absolutely the same level of skills duke it out with characters countering each other .
he's also independently wealthy and doesn't really give a fuck
which is why his manchild persona is on display at all times
Hari Seldon
Member
Well I loved TF2. There is just something... engineered... about Overwatch that is preventing me from really liking it. I think it is a combination of the console-style matchmaking and the maps that have great art design but are severely lacking in fun.
I want to play teh same goofy map over and over again with some server mod balancing the teams so that we actually have fun. Not a complete crap shoot in terms of what map I'm playing and if the teams are going to be severely unbalanced. The game sometimes feels like HS when you are trying to play some slow ass deck and are up against face shaman. Oh well, might as well concede and maybe I'll get a fun game next time!
If they are both skilled then the tracer would know the limitations of the character and would not put themselves close to mccree and instead be further away so they can't easily flashbang. Instead they would take a long range fight where they can constantly keep blinking and recalling in different directions while pelting the mccree.
Omega Kirby
Member
1: No, but you're at a serious disadvatage and two equally skilled players the one with the hard counter will win most of the time.
2: Only if you ult or your bastion . You can't kill 6 people by yourself as freaking zenyatta.
Barrel Cannon
Member
Cliff himself posts on GAF from time to time.
While his tone is rude, it's not really ignorant to be fair, because the part about most developers avoiding neogaf is true. Destiny has the biggest community on GAF of all games, with more OT than any other game yet you rarely see a Bungie developer ever post anything in there or take feedback, Luke Smith will post maybe once in every 6 months...on the other hand they love Reddit and take feedback from Reddit's Destiny sub forum constantly. I was at Gamescom last year with few people from DGAF, and after a Bungie stage show one of us informed that we were neogaf members. One of the developers looked visibly displeased when he heard that.
The sad truth is that in GAF you do observe a lot of hyperbolic negative reactions and also a fair few shitty comments aimed towards developers themselves (sometimes even personally at individuals).
Also Cliff gave us this neogaf post.
breadtruck
Member
I wasnt interested in this game, but it was partially because I havent seen much on it. It playing in the background of that Eurogamer interview perked my interest. Im definitely liking what I seen.
Basically the same here. I played the original Warcraft and Warcraft 2, but that was it. Im an Overwatch fan because the game is so good, not because Im a Blizzard fanboy.
Basically the same here. I played the original Warcraft and Warcraft 2, but that was it. Im an Overwatch fan because the game is so good, not because Im a Blizzard fanboy.
Salty Rice
Member
Well sometimes in special cases he isnt that wrong.
SmartWaffles
Member
Quake Champions is done by Saber Interactive. So...
He's wrong though. Some heroes seek the 1V1, and some others seek 4+ players to wreck havoc on them.
He doesn't seem like the guy who played the game.
And this somehow doesn't happen on Reddit?
There's more than a fair amount of token shitposting on GAF, but it's also one of the exceedingly few giant communities on the net where you can actually have thoughtful discussions.
R_thanatos
Member
That's not what i'm saying.. it's perfectly normal to dislike how a dev balance or re-balance his game overtime. That's why classic Wow servers exist.
But it's another to not seek to change a certain balance when things are discovered being overpowered.
Changing a game over time and attempting to balance a game are 2 differents things , especially given How competitive overwatch is. It's not a sin to want to balance. BUt if you don't care about the "META" , then it's just means that the game's not for the player.
Every game needs changes , that's how you keep old players occupied and how you try to make new players come. It's hardly something only blizzard does
Ryo Hazuki
Member
Shenmue is anime now? Okay.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Man Overwatch's art is so good.
Smooth Operator
Member
Everything is anime. EVERYTHING.
Calavera520
Member
Really not down with this guy's smug persona. Felt he bounced between being a decent dude to flat out disrespectful to fellow developers when he was on the giant bomb stream.
Ryo Hazuki
Member
Smooth Operator
Member
Mmh i don't know. Overwatch is mostly targetting the new fps players / casual crowd, but i feel like Lawbreakers is targetting the hardcore fps crowd (Ex-Quake / UT players / Hardcore PC Players), so i feel like there's room for these 2 games.
(Being new / a casual is fine btw, it's not insulting.)
freethoughtbubble
Member
I know it's just pr talk meant to distance his game from the elephant in the hero shooter room, but the "adult" comments and comparison to mortal kombat are major turn offs for me. I've been so tired of dark and gritty for so long...
moozoom
Member
So the characters will be animated like puppets and have abominable faces, especially the women ?
I never liked Cliffy B, the way he's always bragging and dissing other games... rubs me the wrong way. He's like a parody of the" jock" character in a highschool teen comedy. - Our game is not for babies, that like animu but for real men - This interview was made
in the 90's right ?
But I understand that he's a bit desperate coming after Blizzard is not an easy feat.
Ban Puncher
Member
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Having a hero class system that's intended to grow substantially is anything but casual friendly actually. In order to properly play mobas and this you have to know the ins and out of every hero, otherwise, how do you play against that which you don't know?
Sure, there are other aspects that you might refer to as casual but this one thing already makes for a rather steep learning curve. Like, if you start playing Dota 2 you'll have to get to know 112 heroes, just so you know the very basics of what you're up against / playing with. That's absurd but simply within the nature of the game.
So Cliff and Randy made games all by themself? No one else?
Ban Puncher
Member
Only a poor craftsman blames his tools.
Omega Kirby
Member
xaosslug
Member
eh, I have w/ Junkrat. And I've witnessed Reinhardt & Widowmaker do it, seen my brother do it w/ Reaper & Soldier 76 & MechQueen, etc. all w/o an ult. It can be done - if you're any good. I guess Cliffy just sux @ Overwatch?
Zarathos no Daimaoh
Neo Member
In his PR and the context used , it feels like it's meant to wedge in some confusion about the artstyle and the gameplay .
Anyway , most blizzard games are designed with the philosophy that it's easy to pick up , harder to master . They excel at that , and touch a wide public of yes casual and noobs , but also hardcore gamers because of it .
And arena shooters of yore , embodied the same spirit and design philosophy .... any pc gamer back then could pick up quake or unreal , and would learn or not to master it .
I have a hard time believing LB will be targeting mostly the "elites and hardcore" , not with that kind of "look at me , i don't have cartoon art" statement at least
Zarathos no Daimaoh
Neo Member
my bad double post
oh no it's a very gritty game
(actual voice lines from lawbreakers}
oh god that is UT as hell.
PaulBizkit
Member
He didn't need to compare it to Overwatch, he just needed to pronounce that game's name so he could get a few headlines.
And it worked, I never knew about his game until I read this thread. And his shooter looks generic af
SwaggerMcDagger
Banned
I think icecold is referring to twitch aim.
Let's be honest, outside of mcree's left click, the game requires very little proficiency with aim, relative to the likes of quake and cs. Overwatch is predominantly team synergy and timing based.
In attempts to appease to the widest audience, I think blizzard alienated quite alot of the hardcore PC audience. I still play and enjoy overwatch but I think icecold has a point.