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CNET Rumor: Xbox Design Boss Replaced, Xbox 3 Heading For 2013 Release

However, it'll probably be a decent marketing ploy used on people who are going to buy the Wii U anyway or Wii owners who don't already own a 360 and will be upgrading. It also might be able to be used to market towards people who haven't really tried out CoD yet since it'll be one of the few high profile games in the earlier parts of the Wii U's lifecycle plus probably advertised as bigger and badder with more xtreme compared to other versions.
Well most people interested in a COD type of game have already played COD; its sales don't lie. But I agree they could potentially expand the already big COD market with a good advertisement campaign if they can reach some of the new gamers Wii attracted.

As for specs, they don't matter too much between the HD twins because most of the time the results are so close the average gamer can't really tell. That's not the case when you compare the 360/PS3 version with the Wii version of a game and that actually affects sales. I don't expect the technical gap to be as big next gen, but all known information points to a pretty big gap between MS/Sony's next systems and Nintendo's. Owners of multiple systems will take a big difference into account so Wii U could be at a disadvantage when it comes to multiplatform sales depending on installed base.
 
Two sources who work for Microsoft say Coyner is no longer leading the design and experience group for Xbox. One of those sources said Coyner was replaced by Emma Williams, who helped guide the just-launched redesign of the Xbox Live interface

This single paragraph is the death bell of gaming. Never have a read a scarier formation of words.
 
0 interest in the Wii U, it's just a stop gap system and will be left in the weeds by the 720 and ps4

Poor attempt. The Wii, the PS2 and the PS1 should've taught you better.

A head start you say? Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, Exhibit A:

imgrace%20077.jpg


The yellow car is Nintendo, just ahead of its two main competitors. Unfortunately, what the picture doesn't tell you is that Nintendo is actually one full lap behind.

Take note, people - THIS is a successful and funny troll attempt.

I know a few people have already brought up this point, but it's worth repeating.

Nintendo is in a tough spot with regard to online play. As it stands now, Nintendo's online services are very far behind those of both Microsoft and Sony. Even the introduction of the 3DS did not change that. Meanwhile, Microsoft and Sony have used the last few years to build up their online networks, improve them constantly (even expanding outside of just "gaming" and into "lifestyle"), and most importantly, amassed a base of millions of loyal users who have a vested interest in sticking with their gaming network of choice because they've got their digital downloads, friends lists, scoreboards, and achievements/trophies tied to them now.

With that in mind, even if the Wii U were to be released tomorrow morning with a comprehensive online network every bit as capable as Xbox Live and PlayStation Network, it would not be good enough. They cannot settle for having the Wii U online network merely match the capabilities of XBL and PSN. They need to shoot much higher than that. They must greatly exceed what XBL and PSN can do, in big ways...in ways that Microsoft and Sony cannot easily counteract. They need to fire on all cylinders and blow the doors off of XBL and PSN with some kind of unforeseen innovation that current gamers' mere mortal minds cannot possibly comprehend. Otherwise, Microsoft and Sony could bring out Xbox 3 and PlayStation 4 soon afterward, and people will be content to carry over their existing online profiles (with their digital downloads and friends lists) to the new system and pick up right where they left off.

The "path of least resistance" for an Xbox 360 fan (read: Xbox Live fan) would be Xbox 3. The "path of least resistance" for a PlayStation 3 fan (read: PlayStation Network fan) would be PlayStation 4. This has a whole heck of a lot to do with the online networks they built, and Nintendo's apathy toward online and dawdling through the last two generations is what put them in this rut.

I believe you are vastly overestimating:
A) how many people outside the GAF-like "hardcore" use the live features extensively beyond just... playing the games online
B) how many people are online on their console period

Let's talk facts. XBox Live - the undisputed "king of online".
As of August 2011 (4 months ago)

Xbox Live Marketing Manager, Robin Burrowes revealed that the current user base for Xbox Live is at 35 million people worldwide, which includes both the free Silver members and paid Gold members.

And the best part:
the last known count for Xbox Live was around 12 million Gold subscribers on the service

It's funny how GAF thinks compared to the rest of the world.
 
1. Why did the Wii see so much success for the majority of this gen?

2. How did the 360 regain momentum after relatively stagnant growth for the first few years?

3. What factors lead to lack of PS3 momentum early on?

I would say price was a big factor in all three.

Wii came in with a really attractive price and offered something new and unique. However, the lack of tech in it made it unsustainable in the long term.

While the xbox was expensive, it wasn't too expensive to get early adopters to jump. When they price fell to $199 on the arcade, there was enough install base and games for it to make it the console of choice. kinect helped too, but i don't think it was as big of an impact as the xbox being the defacto platform of choice for third parties.

I think the PS3 price simply priced it out of competition. Had PS3 launched at 399, I think it would have won this generation.


Going forward, I think it will be really hard for MS to offer something revolutionary like Kinect or what Wii did with motion controls. So I think what they need to do is ensure that they can get enough early adopters to buy into their platform to build up the user base so that their console becomes the defacto multiplatform console of choice again.

i think that's going to require getting the right balance of tech so that it's powerful enough to offer a significant upgrade, yet not priced out of consideration.

Fortunately, with this generation being as long as it has been, i think they can provide a huge upgrade in a sub-$399 box.
 
What we know so far about the Wii U is that it is at least a half generational leap, and that's barely knowing anything substantial and not final.

So yeah your comments are unfounded.

The next gen consoles will not be a repeat of this generations. Maybe the PS2-GC-Xbox generation, but not the Wii----------Xbox-PS3 one.
Nextbox and PS4 will surely blow WiiU out of the water. Similar to this generation actually.
 
I know, a woman leading a video game design!? She'll probably make Xbox 3 pink with Justin Bieber music on start-up

Yea probably will, with avatars and giant ads that I get to pay to see

Oh no its ok guys that we are charging 20% more. You are gonna get a shitty version of twitter and facebook you will never use. All it takes is another giant ad right at the center of the screen on top of your $60 per year and we will give you something you already have somewhere else where it performs better

Woman or not, whoever made the new interface is Satan
 
here is a video of Emma Williams in a 2007 video explaining building visual studio

http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/WM_I...ng-Visual-Studio-with-Intentional-Engineering

I don't know if this will give you guys an idea of how she will be at the helm of Xbox 3


The Good thing is she is a hard core software engineer and not some outsider with love of kinectimals

this woman gets system engineering. this video is GOOD NEWS for the ecosystem as a whole. all that stuff about how devs love the 360 because of the tools? it's because of the people like her.

also, eyes open this year. MSNerd's rumors have the Xbox App SDK going public mid-2012. that will be a sea change.

we have not yet begun to see what Xbox is capable of.
 
Why are people talking about upcoming current gen hardware in a thread about the next-gen Xbox?

Generations have nothing to do with hardware. Never have, never will. Everything releasing next year and beyond will be in the 8th generation of consoles.
 
That's an impossibility, unless Nintendo uses the Power G3 architecture and DX7-equivalent GPU for the WiiU.
If nintendo does what leakages are showing, than sure, nextbox and PS4 are going to blow it out of the water. Especially if released in late 2013.
 
If nintendo does what leakages are showing, than sure, nextbox and PS4 are going to blow it out of the water. Especially if released in late 2013.

That's working on the assumption of Xbox3 and PS4 making some kind of huge leap and 2013 won't buy them as much time as people think. 2014 would be a better time for the kind of leap you seem to be expecting and I don't see either making it that far.
 
It's a bad sign when your design lead is fired right when they should be working hardest on the next gen, right? Or is there still plenty of time for a 2013 launch? Not sure how long the design process takes.
 
Not happening. We haven't even heard a lick of info about the PS4 while supposed leaks have been happening for the next Xbox for some time. Sony isn't launching the PS4 in 2012. It may not launch in 2013 either.
Sony just announced a new game for late 2012 launch on PS3 too. I fully expect them to launch h2h with MS in 2013.
 
Do you really think the average layperson knows the difference between xbox live and PSN?

In terms of the full bullet-point feature comparison list? No. In terms of understanding that switching from one to the other will prevent them from playing with their friends? Absolutely.

You keep talking about this like the issue is spending five minutes making a new account. That suggests to me that you are not commenting from a position of knowledge here. The issue is, more than anything else, social: people are going to do what it takes to keep playing with their friends.

Also, I mean, you're starting from the wrong position here with "it's not so bad to create a new account." That's looking at it from the perspective of "for people who want to switch to Wii U, will a new network stop them?" The answer to that might be no, but it's not the relevant question. What you need to be asking is "for people who have no default inclination whatsoever to switch to Wii U, can its offerings be so appealing that it wins them over?" That's a much harder hill to climb. The dedicated multiplayer community is going to be far and away the hardest portion of the market for Nintendo to peel away.

You really think the majority of 360 owners are so tied down to their live accounts that they'd be willing to shell out an extra couple hundred dollars?

The type of choice you're presenting here doesn't really line up. You're looking at it like everyone will have to buy a new console right away so the only question is how they'll weigh the specific launch offerings. The reality is that people will jump into the next generation in the same waves they did this time: dedicated core hobbyists first, followed by increasingly less dedicated players as the prices drop. Anyone who's a one-console 360 owner, who plays online

This exact aspect is what makes the network effect so relevant. The people who will be buying new consoles within their first year or two of life are dedicated game hobbyists: people who are more experienced, more knowledgeable, and more demanding than the majority of the market. They, out of all consumers, are the most likely to have a network worth carrying over and to make software decisions during the early days of a generation based on that network.

Once these people get established that's going to set the pace for the later adopters. If early buyers make 720 the go-to system for Modern Warfare and company, later, more casual buyers will be gravitated to that system. It's not impossible for Nintendo to fight this loop, but it would basically require them to make Wii U online so compelling that early adopters start buying COD there right away rather than just waiting out an extra year on the 360 edition.

(Also, I mean, the idea that Wii U is going to be $200 cheaper than 720 and offer "similar features" is completely absurd.)
 
If he was in charge of those two things, then it's inconceivable to me why he would be replaced unless it was his choice. I can't imagine a better job being done for the xbox brand by anyone on those two fronts.

I was going to say exactly this. If those are his areas, he has knocked it out of the bloody park.
 
Us enthusiasts are not who the console makers are really trying to sell the box to, though... we are very small in number in comparison to the mainstream consumer. As noted above, there are approximately 12 million active Live Gold subscriptions as of a few months ago. When you look at even in comparison to the amount of 360's out there, the network features of the box become less compelling as a sold service. As a valueadd, sure (though you have to pay for it in the case of Microsoft lol) but what sells these boxes to people is compelling software that they want and must have.
 
Same as Sony. Even they stated they don't want to be last again goong to the next generation.
At the moment, I am not even sure how next gen will go with me. am thinking that I am going to be buying at least the nintendo console and maybe the playstation console again (and/or xbox) but I think I might wait until the slim lines come out for 2 out of the 3 of them and then just buy those instead of buying day one and having my first Playstation 3 (original 60GB model) YLoD last spring and then just replacing it on Black Friday for the $199.99 bundle. Um, and the 360, I really don't want to get into it since it infuriates me every time I go and bring it up, but I am on my 4th Xbox 360 since the 2005 launch, and really, I only play that thing on average like 2 hours a week at most with some maybe 4 hour days for a 3-day weekend or a week holiday maybe 2-3 times a year... I don't think that is abusing it or over using it any way, but MS claims I had to be throwing my console down the stairs when they were in the denial phase when my first 360 died in like May of 2006.

My Wii has been fine. And I actually play that about almost as much as my ps3 or 360. I have a bunch of retro games on there, and there are also a ton of Wii-gems out there. Like I think Kirby's Epic Yarn and No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle will be my games of this holiday seeing as I got NMH2:DS (I think it was like 10$) for St. Nick and then Kirby I picked up myself for $7.99 thanks to GAFfers posting about that Bestbuy deal earlier in the week!

So as much as I don't want to say it, the Wii might end up being my console of the generation... or maybe the PSP since they never broke, and being that I am a hardcore gamers, but I don't blow through games at a disgusting pace (it can take me 4 months to get through a 10-20 hour game), so never really ran into a lack of games for either the Wii or PSP. Go figure... the noobconsole and the Playstation Portafail end up being my systems of this generation... :|
 
Emma Williams seems to 'get it'. I'll remain open minded and judge the next Xbox once I see it and how MS is going to tie it into the Windows eco-system (yea I know lol).
 
here is a video of Emma Williams in a 2007 video explaining building visual studio

http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/WM_I...ng-Visual-Studio-with-Intentional-Engineering

I don't know if this will give you guys an idea of how she will be at the helm of Xbox 3


The Good thing is she is a hard core software engineer and not some outsider with love of kinectimals

Well the new (horrible) dashboard definitely doesn't look like a UI that's been made by some hardcore software engineer....the system right now looks more like a multimedia machine's marketplace rather than a game console menu.

I'm also quite surprised at the 2013 rumor since 360's 2012 line-up right now is pretty weak - sure there's Halo 4, Witcher 2 and some great XBLA games coming but overall this looked like it could be the swansong year for the system before the new one comes out.

Who knows maybe MS will announce some more 360 retail titles for 2012...there's a chance that we'll see some new "shoving down core gamer's throat" Kinect/hybrid games I guess - I'd bet that we won't see more core traditional games from them until the new system though.
 
Poor attempt. The Wii, the PS2 and the PS1 should've taught you better.



T

What the hell does ps2 and ps1 have to do with wii and wii U? Sure those were the "weaker" systems but other than that, those systems are very different, with regards to their respective generations. This point your are trying to make is moot here.
 
Well the new (horrible) dashboard definitely doesn't look like a UI that's been made by some hardcore software engineer....the system right now looks more like a multimedia machine's marketplace rather than a game console menu.

I'm also quite surprised at the 2013 rumor since 360's 2012 line-up right now is pretty weak - sure there's Halo 4, Witcher 2 and some great XBLA games coming but overall this looked like it could be the swansong year for the system before the new one comes out.

Who knows maybe MS will announce some more 360 retail titles for 2012...there's a chance that we'll see some new "shoving down core gamer's throat" Kinect/hybrid games I guess - I'd bet that we won't see more core traditional games from them until the new system though.

software engineers are not really designing the UI, thats the job of the UI guy, she was most likely the woman writing the code behind the UI
 
It will be pushed to early 2014.

What? If 2013 even turns out to be accurate, it will have been pushed from 2012.

What the hell does ps2 and ps1 have to do with wii and wii U? Sure those were the "weaker" systems but other than that, those systems are very different, with regards to their respective generations. This point your are trying to make is moot here.

My point is that software sells systems, not power. That has always been the case, that will always be the case. Also noted above: generations have nothing to do with hardware.
 
software engineers are not really designing the UI, thats the job of the UI guy, she was most likely the woman writing the code behind the UI

So she's not responsible for that crowded filled with ads designed by monkeys mess? well there's still hope I guess.

Thanks for clarifying. :P
 
What? If 2013 even turns out to be accurate, it will have been pushed from 2012.



My point is that software sells systems, not power. That has always been the case, that will always be the case. Also noted above: generations have nothing to do with hardware.

Power doesn't sell systems but neither does software, at least not all inclusitvely.
 
Us enthusiasts are not who the console makers are really trying to sell the box to, though... we are very small in number in comparison to the mainstream consumer. As noted above, there are approximately 12 million active Live Gold subscriptions as of a few months ago. When you look at even in comparison to the amount of 360's out there, the network features of the box become less compelling as a sold service. As a valueadd, sure (though you have to pay for it in the case of Microsoft lol) but what sells these boxes to people is compelling software that they want and must have.

That's not really the case. Of course console makers want their products to appeal to general audiences, but its the enthusiast who gets their products out there to be seen and played by those general audiences. The Wii, for example, is the undisputed casual king this gen, but do you think they would have been nearly as successful if they hadn't hooked their dedicated fanbase to buy the machine day one and have it set up in their homes during that crucial first holiday season? Nintendo's only mistaked was being too caught up in the prospect of that casual audience and expecting 3rd parties to follow suit based their numbers alone.

But their strategy was in essence the same strategy that MS so successfully employed: secure your base first, then move in expanding the market.

Now that Nintendo wants to go after that market, they need to realize that they have to come out with something truly special that appeals to the enthusiast to get that group to even consider switching to the Wii U.
 
Well the new (horrible) dashboard definitely doesn't look like a UI that's been made by some hardcore software engineer....the system right now looks more like a multimedia machine's marketplace rather than a game console menu.

I'm also quite surprised at the 2013 rumor since 360's 2012 line-up right now is pretty weak - sure there's Halo 4, Witcher 2 and some great XBLA games coming but overall this looked like it could be the swansong year for the system before the new one comes out.

Who knows maybe MS will announce some more 360 retail titles for 2012...there's a chance that we'll see some new "shoving down core gamer's throat" Kinect/hybrid games I guess - I'd bet that we won't see more core traditional games from them until the new system though.

The 360 just had its best year ever with "only" Gears 3, Forza 4, Kinect Sports 2, Dance Central 2, and Halo Anniversary as major retail exclusives.

More relevant to console sales next year is that the 360 will have GTA 5, Bioshock Infinite, Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, SF x Tekken, Doom 4 (lol), Darksiders 2, and the usual Madden/FIFA/NBA2k big releases. And MS will probably do an official price drop to $199 for the Elite and the 4GB Kinect bundles.

iamshadowlark said:
Power doesn't sell systems but neither does software, at least not all inclusitvely.

The system with the most games that people actually care about gets the most sales.
 
I believe you are vastly overestimating:
A) how many people outside the GAF-like "hardcore" use the live features extensively beyond just... playing the games online
B) how many people are online on their console period

Let's talk facts. XBox Live - the undisputed "king of online".
As of August 2011 (4 months ago)
And the best part:
It's funny how GAF thinks compared to the rest of the world.
What's funny is that you say you want to talk about facts and then use something Joystiq "heard" with no source as to where or when they heard it. Microsoft has said in their earnings calls that the number of Gold members makes up a majority of the overall live membership and they've also mentioned they have over a billion dollars a year in subscription revenue(in the last year annual revenue from sales on the marketplace has finally surprised that). 12 million Gold members isn't a fact, is a fabrication.

They've also mentioned that the 35 million overall active users(both gold and silver) spend an average of almost 60 hours a month using the service. Not really possible for that average to work out if only the hardcore are using the service.

Edit- Google tells me the 12 million number is an analyst estimate from the end of June 2010 when they only had 25 million active subscribers.
 
What's funny is that you say you want to talk about facts and then use something Joystiq "heard" with no source as to where or when they heard it. Microsoft has said in their earnings calls that the number of Gold members makes up a majority of the overall live membership and they've also mentioned they have over a billion dollars a year in subscription revenue(in the last year annual revenue from sales on the marketplace has finally surprised that). 12 million Gold members isn't a fact, is a fabrication.

They've also mentioned that the 35 million overall active users(both gold and silver) spend an average of almost 60 hours a month using the service. Not really possible for that average to work out if only the hardcore are using the service.

Fabrication?

Xbox Live marketing manager for EMEA Robin Burrowes

Made up?

he did note that Microsoft is earning "more revenue from the transaction space than the subscription space." That means Microsoft's banking more from digital content purchases (XBLA games, Zune Marketplace, etc.) than from folks paying for the service
 
In terms of the full bullet-point feature comparison list? No. In terms of understanding that switching from one to the other will prevent them from playing with their friends? Absolutely.

You keep talking about this like the issue is spending five minutes making a new account. That suggests to me that you are not commenting from a position of knowledge here. The issue is, more than anything else, social: people are going to do what it takes to keep playing with their friends.

Also, I mean, you're starting from the wrong position here with "it's not so bad to create a new account." That's looking at it from the perspective of "for people who want to switch to Wii U, will a new network stop them?" The answer to that might be no, but it's not the relevant question. What you need to be asking is "for people who have no default inclination whatsoever to switch to Wii U, can its offerings be so appealing that it wins them over?" That's a much harder hill to climb. The dedicated multiplayer community is going to be far and away the hardest portion of the market for Nintendo to peel away.



The type of choice you're presenting here doesn't really line up. You're looking at it like everyone will have to buy a new console right away so the only question is how they'll weigh the specific launch offerings. The reality is that people will jump into the next generation in the same waves they did this time: dedicated core hobbyists first, followed by increasingly less dedicated players as the prices drop. Anyone who's a one-console 360 owner, who plays online

This exact aspect is what makes the network effect so relevant. The people who will be buying new consoles within their first year or two of life are dedicated game hobbyists: people who are more experienced, more knowledgeable, and more demanding than the majority of the market. They, out of all consumers, are the most likely to have a network worth carrying over and to make software decisions during the early days of a generation based on that network.

Once these people get established that's going to set the pace for the later adopters. If early buyers make 720 the go-to system for Modern Warfare and company, later, more casual buyers will be gravitated to that system. It's not impossible for Nintendo to fight this loop, but it would basically require them to make Wii U online so compelling that early adopters start buying COD there right away rather than just waiting out an extra year on the 360 edition.

(Also, I mean, the idea that Wii U is going to be $200 cheaper than 720 and offer "similar features" is completely absurd.)
^What he said. lol
 
There is definitely enough room in terms of price drops for this hardware cycle to last another two years (and then some since it isn't like they'll cease existing when new systems launch) but isn't the gap between Xbox and Windows going to get excessive? Are they introducing DX12 with Windows 8?
 
I'm also quite surprised at the 2013 rumor since 360's 2012 line-up right now is pretty weak - sure there's Halo 4, Witcher 2 and some great XBLA games coming but overall this looked like it could be the swansong year for the system before the new one comes out.

Who knows maybe MS will announce some more 360 retail titles for 2012...there's a chance that we'll see some new "shoving down core gamer's throat" Kinect/hybrid games I guess - I'd bet that we won't see more core traditional games from them until the new system though.

Xbox 360's 2012 line-up looks pretty damn strong so far, exclusives don't mean anything this late in the game. They're going to have an extremely strong year as far as sales and releases go. They've also got a key price drop to play with.
 
Much like this gen, next generation I will buy only the first console that launches (and maybe whatever Nintendo puts out. Maybe.) I don't really care if I buy a PS4 or the next Xbox, but I will only buy one. Ready, set, GO!
 
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