Kaine was a horrible VP and did absolutely nothing for Clinton.
Joe would have rallied all people together - he's the everyman politician.
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CNN : Biden: Clinton never figured out why she was running
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Kaine was a horrible VP and did absolutely nothing for Clinton.
Joe would have rallied all people together - he's the everyman politician.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I don't even think it's a secret, he openly supported the TPP against the objections of his own party.
Yes, that is how long a person like Clinton can plan for the presidency.
We would have had Obama sponsored social security cuts if not for Republican incompetence. He offered them up for like a year.
I don't think they learned that lesson tho. People who are getting talked about running are wall street people who raise a ton of money like Cory Booker and Kristen Gillibrand. The democrats organizational skills on a state and local level are abysmal as well. Not sure what it is going to take for them to realize that they need to organize from a local level first so they have the support in the general tho.
timetokill
Banned
I thought it was pretty clear that Hillary's reason to run was "I deserve to be president" as opposed to anything else. Turns out that doesn't resonate all that well.
For as educated as Hillary is, it's stunning how little she learned in her defeat to Obama, and in the primaries of this election. It was lazy and supremely arrogant.
For as educated as Hillary is, it's stunning how little she learned in her defeat to Obama, and in the primaries of this election. It was lazy and supremely arrogant.
Raven117
Member
That's interesting about Trayvon. I wasn't aware of such fallout when he decided to speak about that.
I think we are having a bit of a mis-communication. Surely there are issues that affect individual groups and absolutely should be addressed including and perhaps most importantly race. What I am saying is that there are certain issues that ARE one size fits all and that's what the Democrats missed this go around. In the words of James Carvelle (sp). "Its the economy, stupid." Everyone. And I mean everyone has to eat.
This election can not be boiled down to any one issue. There are many many reasons that come into play here.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
And we're saying there isn't. And it's definitely not economy.
White people benefiting economics doesn't always improve black economy or other POCs. Definitely not the Indigenous population.
Hell, a "strong police force" probably helps white people's bottom line quite a bit. We know damn well what it does elsewhere.
This post is pretty cringe inducing.
So embarrassing, and highlights the extent to which the people running her campaign were in their own little bubble.
Dash_Riprock
Member
That a complete unknown like Sanders did so well against her should have set off alarm bells for her entire campaign. Instead...
chillybright
Banned
Geez I remember there was a time on this forum when many posters encouraged others to "cut ties" with their friends even families for this very reason. Whenever there are people mentioning they have friends who would vote for Trump, there would be responses like "why are you their friends??"
TyphoonStruggle
Member
Goddamn. Biden so succinct: "In the meantime, can't eat equality."
Extra Sauce
Member
Putting the "could Biden have won" thing aside, he never seemed as intelligent and competent as Hillary to me.
More trustworthy though? Probably. Not a high bar to clear.
More trustworthy though? Probably. Not a high bar to clear.
But he spoke Spanish! Think of all the Latino voters they stopped going to Trump!
therealist
Member
This sentiment still exists. Democrats haven't learned anything and if this continues, they'll continue to lose elections and not know why.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
He said we need to stop shipping our manufacturing jobs overseas, while Hillary said we need to instead focus on creating new jobs in "infrastructure and advanced manufacturing, innovation and technology, clean renewable energy and small business" because the old manufacturing jobs are already gone and aren't coming back.
Note that most of hillary's examples for new jobs require college degrees. Granted she has an answer for that with her college plan, but I think some people don't go to college because they just aren't academic and don't want to be academic, not because they don't see a way to afford it.
It's not hard to see why the Rust Belt shifted towards Donald on that argument.
She said half of Trump supporters are unredeemable, while the other half are people "that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re desperate for change."
Don't just assume every single person that voted for trump in the general election is the same as his die hard supporters. Maybe they're all complicit to racism to some extent through the simple act of voting for trump, but purity tests, economic or racial, simply don't win elections.
Psychoward
Banned
Why would I as a bi male support someone who voted for policies that strip away my humanity?
I'm not friends with anyone who voted Trump and that's on purpose, albeit a lot of it was cooincidence as most of the people I know who weren't lgbt friendly voted for Trump anyway. Fuck em.
Psychoward
Banned
And the sentiment "why aren't minorities friends with people who don't like them because of who they are?" Will continue to ring on in the hearts and minds of moderates.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol i will never understand these comments. she won just as many votes as Obama did in 2012. i think shes short by like 75k votes.
Let's blame the assholes who voted for a vile racist piece of shit. let's not forget that college educated white women and men who arent exactly starving in this economy voted for this sexist bumbling buffoon. let's not forget how many gaffs and october surprises this narcissist rude and disgusting con man had.
People say never forget 9/11. We should also never forget the people voted for this guy. this total incompetent and disgusting excuse for a human being over one of the most experienced people to run for this country in recent history.
Lastly, she didnt just lose the working class whites in PA, MI and WI. She also lost Florida, North Carolina and Ohio. I know people who have prospered under obama who live in nice big houses and they voted for this piece of shit because they bought into the republican propaganda that turned her into the devil herself. these people called her a cunt in front of me.
No, fuck them. And blame them. Because they are the ones responsible. Not the woman who got just as many votes as the black guy.
Let's blame the assholes who voted for a vile racist piece of shit. let's not forget that college educated white women and men who arent exactly starving in this economy voted for this sexist bumbling buffoon. let's not forget how many gaffs and october surprises this narcissist rude and disgusting con man had.
People say never forget 9/11. We should also never forget the people voted for this guy. this total incompetent and disgusting excuse for a human being over one of the most experienced people to run for this country in recent history.
Lastly, she didnt just lose the working class whites in PA, MI and WI. She also lost Florida, North Carolina and Ohio. I know people who have prospered under obama who live in nice big houses and they voted for this piece of shit because they bought into the republican propaganda that turned her into the devil herself. these people called her a cunt in front of me.
No, fuck them. And blame them. Because they are the ones responsible. Not the woman who got just as many votes as the black guy.
plagiarize
Banned
This is a guess, but I'm guessing that you aren't an under privileged minority.
Because the economy (and wage disparity) isn't every minorities number one issue, even if you think it ought to be.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
What does blaiming the voters do? The voters that didn't vote for hillary got what they want, which is for Hillary to not be president. That's what a democracy is about.
I can see blaming the system for not being democratic enough, or the candidates for not doing enough to make voters want to vote for them, but blaiming voters just make no sense to me. For better or worse, the voter is always right. They don't owe a vote to anyone.
TestOfTide
Banned
Don't assume what people know or don't know when they vote.
Yes, Most Trump voters are unreachable, but some of them, particularly the ones that voted for Obama, CAN be reached if Democrats try to reach them like Obama did.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
You guess wrong.
Just because I'm a minority and I check the boxes as a minority, doesn't mean that I like being identified as a minority.
This is a big reason why liberals fail.
I'm human just the same as everyone else. Being a minority certainly affect my culture and upbringing, but it's actually really condescending to say I'm any different than anyone else. I'm very proud of my culture, but we're all equally capable of great and horrible things.
Equity is wrong. Equality is right. ...for the most part.
I'm not black, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
You're not, yet you're gonna post that respectability trash that even Chris Rock now regrets?
I remember watching the VP debate and thinking Kaine is never going to be vice president. I just couldn't see it despite having full faith at the time that Clinton would win.
There was some rumbling that the DNC is considering running him in 2020. It would be catastrophic.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I actually don't mind these comments.
At least Joe can acknowledge the plight of the white working class while not similarly throwing minorities under the bus. While he says you can't eat equality, he also says that we shouldn't yield an inch when it comes to actual progress.
It's the same thing I've been saying since we lost. We should do both. We can do both. I feel like people who want to throw away the progressive platform in favor of "winning back the white rural class vote" ultimately don't care about progressive issues at all, and that's not really surprising.
At least Joe can acknowledge the plight of the white working class while not similarly throwing minorities under the bus. While he says you can't eat equality, he also says that we shouldn't yield an inch when it comes to actual progress.
It's the same thing I've been saying since we lost. We should do both. We can do both. I feel like people who want to throw away the progressive platform in favor of "winning back the white rural class vote" ultimately don't care about progressive issues at all, and that's not really surprising.
I love how you use a tautology to slander everybody that suggests a shift in priorities.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
That "shift in priorities" can lead to things like that crime bill everyone trashed Bill and Hillary for. Despite Biden helping create it, and Bernie also voting for it.
How else are we supposed to trust that if some of our rights will even be on the table with a history like that?
As always, details matter.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I think that was just some progressives interpreting appreciation to Kaine's hard work as a VP candidate as him being next in line. I haven't seen anything to suggest that he has any real support for a bid for president.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I love how you addressed my comment without addressing the reality in which I made it.
As a person of color, how am I supposed to be interested in working with people who throw me under the bus for people who actively vote against their best interests?
Do you have anything to say about that? Or do you want to attempt to throw shade because a group of people have declared that my equal treatment can be abandoned at any time because of rural voter's feelies?
You said "everyone who wants to throw out the progressive platform doesn't care about the progressive platform". That's the tautology. People who don't care about the progressive platform self-evidently don't care about the progressive platform.
If you want to have an actual discussion, point out specific proposals, and argue why they are wrong. Dividing liberals is not going to help beat the Republicans.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm assuming you bolded (and reiterated) that "you can't eat equality" as if it's some brilliant turn of phrase you agree with and not just a relatively insulting fatuous statement.
Chie Satonaka
Member
You don't even know how to read.
I said "I FEEL LIKE". I didn't make that an absolute statement. I said that's how I feel.
Miss me with this lecture about "dividing liberals". People who whine about liberals and the need to discard "identity politics" (read: stop being so loud about minority issues!) are the one who are dividing liberals, not me expressing my feelings about that ideology on a message board.
CountAntonius
Member
I like this post. It makes absolutely no sense to me how it's become this or that. This country NEEDS to do both and it absolutely can.
Frozenprince
Banned
No, she didn't.
Bernie losing did that.
Foooor real.
Don't even wanna read this thread now, I can already guess how it went.
Come on.
To the substantive part of your post- this is the same issue that prompted my initial response. You're just strawman-ing everyone who has a contrary view as not caring about progressive issues or minority issues.
Father_Brain
Banned
Her platform wasn't as progressive as I would have liked, but it still would have made for a decent step in that direction had it been implemented. Maybe she should have tried campaigning on that instead of Dangerous Donald.
No one has any obligation to do anything. If she didn't have a clear reason for running, she never should have run in the first place.
I don't know about all ya'll, but I'm going to take this as a lesson for myself, to do what I truly want to do and believe in rather than think I have no choice but to do other things that I actually consider a "real burden" instead. If I consider the main things I'm doing with my life to be a big burden, in the same way that Clinton apparently considered running for the presidency to be, then I'm probably not going to do a good job at them.
I don't know about all ya'll, but I'm going to take this as a lesson for myself, to do what I truly want to do and believe in rather than think I have no choice but to do other things that I actually consider a "real burden" instead. If I consider the main things I'm doing with my life to be a big burden, in the same way that Clinton apparently considered running for the presidency to be, then I'm probably not going to do a good job at them.
I bolded it cause I agreed.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, there's a distinct difference between saying we need to focus more on economic issues that affect everyone, and saying we need to focus less on "identity politics".
It's not like the issue with Hillary's economic platform was time. She talked plenty about the economy. The problem is her economic platform was weak. That's not even necessarily saying it was too centrist, just that it was too weak.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Lol.
Actually, what's happening here is you're doing in real time what I'm concerned about within the progressive movement.
Since Clinton lost the election, there's been multiple think pieces, multiple commentators, armchair analysts and everyone else who have been discussing the plight of the white working class, how they've been left behind, and how we have to fix that. We MUST. If we don't, it's the end of the party, we'll never win elections, ect. It's dire!
Meanwhile, I'm a minority in America, I vote for progressive ideas and candidates, I'm reliable. I'm not going to flip to Trump or anyone else because I believe in progressive politics. And I'm like, "Hey, this is how I feel." but I don't get a seat at the table, because you want to pick a fight with me instead of listening. Suddenly, I'm "dividing liberals" and all this other goofy shit. You don't actually speak to my concern; you just want to make me into something I'm not for no reason at all.
If you're the face of progressive allies in the age of Trump, man, the Democrats are going to learn another hard lesson about losing reliable voting blocs.
If that's who they get behind, then Trump will win the election again. We need someone charismatic that talks to all Americans and unifies the country as much as possible. The extremists on each side will never agree. All of the folks that are center need to be attracted.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
I respect that you feel that way, and I'm not trying to say those feelings are invalid. There's a difference between constructive criticism and blanket denouncements though. Which you just did again (no I did not miss the conditional) by creating a scenario where I'm now the face of progressive allies in the age of Trump. If I get on the internet and say some dumb shit, it's not rational or productive to attribute that to an entire branch of the party.
You better tell it.
In my opinion, so many liberals have shown their TRUE asses in the outcome of this election.
The best example: "Hillary Clinton had no clear message!!!"
Hillary Clinton, the FIRST presidential candidate to openly discuss racism, say the phrase "white privilege", and openly discuss gender issues had "no clear message."
Uh huh...
Father_Brain
Banned
At least they included two nods at actual substance with "debt relief" and "higher wages," but they're not part of anything even resembling a coherent message - they're just drowned in a sea of bland, meaningless platitudes and a general "Hillary's so great, you know you already love her, now just get out there and vote for her!" vibe.
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