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Codemasters hit with layoffs. Dirt 4 will probably be delayed; team "smaller than 20"
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Crayon
Member
Well played. That was a standout.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Apparently their own Toybox Turbos is pretty much that without the license.
This isn't particularly unexpected as they've been downsizing for years and narrowing their output. It can't be easy surviving as a dedicated racing studio these days.
Was referring to the Codemasters developed ones (Dragon Rising, Red River). Was hoping to see a next-gen sequel as I liked the games.
I know Bohemia's games are better, but I have a fondness for Dragon Rising's janky gameplay.
Baleoce
Member
yup, pretty much waiting for this. hopefully toybox turbos delivers.
Diddy Kong
Banned
Best of luck to those people.
I have also read this but can't remember which thread.
However a gaffer who seemed knowledgeable on the subject, mentioned that apparantley the Codemasters F1 licence expires at the end of this year and MS are the favourites to get it, hence the reason for Steve Hood the leading engineer of the F1 games at Codies left.
educator
Member
Very sad if people are fired. I wish them all great luck with whatever path they choose to take in the future. I really hope Dirt 4 turns out awesome, and includes longer stretches of pure racing. The gymkhana was fun for a while, but quickly became tiresome. I really believe Dirt 4 can launch Codemasters into the spotlight again with the new consoles we have. They have some very talented staff and makes gorgeous games (graphically).
I was just about to post how you must have a time machine to know that it bombed as it isn't out yet. And then I saw that it's been out for two months.
There's sending your game to die, but this is on a whole new level. They haven't even updated the homepage to say that it's out now
The worst thing of all is that it was 50% off at Greenmangaming over the holidays so even though I now belatedly know that it's out, I have literally no incentive to buy it right now because they already deeply discounted it within a month of release.
What a complete shambles.
See, Codemasters, this is why you're in so much shit. I'm not asking for an expensive PR campaign, just let people know your game is out now.
Steverulez
Member
Well that would be very interesting... if also a little strange.
It would do nothing for Microsoft and it would only give them additional financial headaches.
It is clearly observable from the period when Sony had an exclusive F1 licence that it didn't pay off from them. And we are speaking about the license obtained during the PS2 golden-age, with insane market cap that PS2 had during the period (2001-2005 era).
FOM simply have very hardcore terms and they ask serious money for their license. They have influence over game-design, usage of assets and all teams are involved into decision making through FOM partnership. It is apparently very demanding to meet all their expectations and terms.
I could imagine that Microsoft would be interested to obtain F1 license in order to incorporate the F1 into Forza, it would be only viable solution from point of costs of development, marketing and actual license. But I am not sure can such thing happen due to FOM terms, aka, can the F1 game even exist without being standalone.
I have never read such rumour before, but it could be possible that Microsoft is chasing it - they certainly can afford aforementioned 15$M annualy to Bernie, but the question remains what do you do once you secure the license.
After great results Sony had with critically acclaimed F12001 and F12002, sales simply fell down the cliff, because it is hard to keep high sales for the annual title that does not significantly improve - all of us that are F1 games fans here (and we are buying all F1 games) would probably agree there is actually not much difference among annual titles in past series. And locking it to only one platform simply does not work. Nor will work in the future, it is simply non-sustainable model.
In my opinion, it would be best if FOM would decide to allow multi-licences (as they were during 1990-2000) period and to give all interested studios an oportunity to build their best possible F1 game. And then to let market decide which one is best. However, I am also aware that current cost of developement of F1 title from the scratch would be gargantous for AAA market.
Online service model would be best, but it is not a subject for this discussion.
But if Microsoft license F1 and deal becomes a reality, it will be very interesting to see what they can do with it. In the past 15 years noone was able to make the license commercialy work for longer than 2 years (including Sony).
SirMossyBloke
Member
1000x yes.
TJP
Member
Despite my grievances with the F1 game series on PC (tons of bugs on release, lack of long term post-release support), I think this is very troubling news. Grid: Autosport is the best CM release in ages and despite very solid reviews, it barely registered on the sales charts for ANY platform. The Grid: AS OT barely survived beyond the release week. Toybox Turbos and F1 2014 appear to have failed to sell and now the layoffs are starting two weeks after Xmas...I can't help but feel sorry for the people who work for CM.
If the rumoured figure of $15 million per year for the F1 licence is true then in hindsight CM should have let Activision win the rights from Bernie and his pals. Bizarre Creations would be alive and making sublime F1 games (just as they did in the past) and CM could have used the money to update the EGO engine plus buy a shedload of car and track licences like CM used to for their TOCA series.
If the rumoured figure of $15 million per year for the F1 licence is true then in hindsight CM should have let Activision win the rights from Bernie and his pals. Bizarre Creations would be alive and making sublime F1 games (just as they did in the past) and CM could have used the money to update the EGO engine plus buy a shedload of car and track licences like CM used to for their TOCA series.
TJP
Member
After all this time, I doubt it. Promises were made on the Steam forums to remove GFWL on January 30th, 2014 (probably elsewhere too) and still nothing. Perhaps once CM remove GFWL they'll patch in the DLC for free so the game will shut up about buying it all the time
Steverulez
Member
I suspect they wouldnt incorporate it into Forza, at least not exclusively anyway. They would get Playground Games make the games on a yearly basis. Perhaps they can negotiate FOM down to give them more control or something, I don't think it would it would be Xbox One exclusive either, the most reasonable thing would be PC/Xbox One or maybe even PC/Xbox One/Xbox 360 (depending on if the 360 lives by that point, possible unlikely)
Perhaps it would be part of an assault on Europe or something although I doubt it would have much impact.
Visualante2
Member
Toybox Turbos is the Micro Machines game everyone pretends to want, but doesn't buy. It's actually quite a good game.
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=145466812
Interesting post amar RE: Activision and Microsoft.
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=145466812
Interesting post amar RE: Activision and Microsoft.
thelastword
Banned
I saw this coming, even commented about it recently in a thread, just too many bad decisions. I fear the same for Insomniac.
Fucking awesome. One of my favourite game series of all time before they took it in a direction I didn't really like with the Dirt series.
CM2.0 for life. If in doubt, flat out.
Doug Heffernan
Member
That FH2 Storm Island expansion just got a whole lot more intriguing to me.
It might be the next best thing to a new Dirt game.
It might be the next best thing to a new Dirt game.
Baleoce
Member
Wow! It's actually out? xD I'll check it out, but that was quite the stealth release.
SirMossyBloke
Member
Would have helped had they released it on current gen and not 6 year old consoles. I would have been a day 1 buyer.
Dang that sucks. I hope they can rebound up after this
This actually annoys me a lot. I would love if they can remove that GFWL stuff
Kresnik258
Member
Real shame to hear. I've always respected Codies, though haven't loved all of their games (GRID is great though - more street racers please!)
I have always wondered how long they could sustain their model of just racing games though. It seems like a market that's already rapidly diminished, and is only going to get worse.
Good luck to them anyway, hope they can keep things going. And sorry to those who lost their jobs.
I have always wondered how long they could sustain their model of just racing games though. It seems like a market that's already rapidly diminished, and is only going to get worse.
Good luck to them anyway, hope they can keep things going. And sorry to those who lost their jobs.
Yes, they do.
Very sad to see it happen it but everyone was already expecting this. Since Dirt 3 and F1 2010, every Codemasters game have failed to meet expectations and they have been making shortcuts to every game since then.
Although I hope for the best for anyone working there on development side, I fear for them because of business decisions made that completely derailed the future of the studio. Unfortunately this layoffs is just the harbringer of things to come...
You don't negotiate with Bernie especially regarding a stupid videogame. Bernie establishes his terms, if you want to met them fine, if not fuck you and he doesn't care one bit about that pocket change. He would go along and get someone in the middle of the desert to build a track and pay him 75M every year + 250M from under the table.
Negotiations with Bernie don't happen. You either accept his terms or there is no deal to be made. I would love to be in a meeting where anyone from the videogames industry ask for more control regarding the F1 license in a videogame. Good Lord it would fly more chairs then when he discovered what happened with Briatore/Symonds/Piquet.
European brand recognition and some hardware sales. Not enough to recoup the investment but sometime you have to take losses in the present to gain in the future. With the price of the license as it stands there is no way a developer can make a game XB1+X360 only and gain money on it unless they don't spend any money making the game (cough F1 2014 cough).
One of those hardcore terms is that you have to release a Formula 1 Official Game every year until the end of the deal. That's why F1 2009 only for Wii and PSP was made when they knew they couldn't make a PS3/360 game in time to launch in 2009. If you don't comply with that the fine is huge.
Incorporate F1 into Forza would also be a big no-no according to FOM terms. The game has to be the Official F1 Videogame (only F1 cars). Not Forza including F1 cars (they do that with some cars because of deals with individual teams but they can't use F1 brand).
Also "Bernie says" you can't have drivers change teams after each season in your career mode just like in real life. (you can do that in every other sports games but not F1).
Until that guy is in charge, he will continue to not care about younger audience. Like he said recently they don't have money so why care about them?
Although I hope for the best for anyone working there on development side, I fear for them because of business decisions made that completely derailed the future of the studio. Unfortunately this layoffs is just the harbringer of things to come...
You don't negotiate with Bernie especially regarding a stupid videogame. Bernie establishes his terms, if you want to met them fine, if not fuck you and he doesn't care one bit about that pocket change. He would go along and get someone in the middle of the desert to build a track and pay him 75M every year + 250M from under the table.
Negotiations with Bernie don't happen. You either accept his terms or there is no deal to be made. I would love to be in a meeting where anyone from the videogames industry ask for more control regarding the F1 license in a videogame. Good Lord it would fly more chairs then when he discovered what happened with Briatore/Symonds/Piquet.
European brand recognition and some hardware sales. Not enough to recoup the investment but sometime you have to take losses in the present to gain in the future. With the price of the license as it stands there is no way a developer can make a game XB1+X360 only and gain money on it unless they don't spend any money making the game (cough F1 2014 cough).
One of those hardcore terms is that you have to release a Formula 1 Official Game every year until the end of the deal. That's why F1 2009 only for Wii and PSP was made when they knew they couldn't make a PS3/360 game in time to launch in 2009. If you don't comply with that the fine is huge.
Incorporate F1 into Forza would also be a big no-no according to FOM terms. The game has to be the Official F1 Videogame (only F1 cars). Not Forza including F1 cars (they do that with some cars because of deals with individual teams but they can't use F1 brand).
Also "Bernie says" you can't have drivers change teams after each season in your career mode just like in real life. (you can do that in every other sports games but not F1).
Until that guy is in charge, he will continue to not care about younger audience. Like he said recently they don't have money so why care about them?
I agree. I feel like they lost focus on making a solid racing game and more on experimenting with how much they can make out of DLC and Microtransactions.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I should get Autosport... Feel a little like I let those guys down now 
...the concept seemed absolutely up my alley, I wast just really new gen graphics focused when it came out
...the concept seemed absolutely up my alley, I wast just really new gen graphics focused when it came out
I really hope the very best for them. I'm very curious about Dirt 4 and I can only hope they bring back what made Dirt unique back in the day. I have Dirt 2, 3 and Showdown on Steam. I need to find a PC Copy of the very first Dirt on any local shop since I no longer have a console to play it and it's not on Steam...
I also own Grid 1, 2 (twice) and Autosport (currently playing it, more than 30 hours spent) as well. Best of for the team and I wish I could help them somehow, I need more Dirt games.
I also own Grid 1, 2 (twice) and Autosport (currently playing it, more than 30 hours spent) as well. Best of for the team and I wish I could help them somehow, I need more Dirt games.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Codemasters have had the writing on the wall for years now, but we're losing good dev studios yearly in the UK and nothing is replacing them. It's very concerning.
I really disliked the direction taken in Dirt and Grid (driving was OK but the fluff/presentation/menus/etc put me right off), Autosport was a move in the right direction for me but sadly only on last generation consoles - boggles my mind. Aside from Forza 5 I believe it would have been the only proper racing game on current generation platforms. The thirst was (and still somewhat is) real.
I too did not realise Toybox Turbos was out, again previous generation mistake and lack of marketing.
Hope they pull through, so sad.
I too did not realise Toybox Turbos was out, again previous generation mistake and lack of marketing.
Hope they pull through, so sad.
Basically! Codemasters racing games are all excruciatingly dull and they don't do anything else these days. I miss the old Codemasters from the C64/Spectrum days
Scaramanger
Member
CM2 was their last game that really resonated for me. F1 was fun at times but they never tried to (or maybe weren't allowed to) move it forward in any meaningful way and so it got stale.
If they could make a new CM2, even if it didn't have the best graphics in the world so could be done at a reasonable budget I'd be all over it.
Edit: Incidentally WRC4 was pretty close, love that game, its even great on Vita!
If they could make a new CM2, even if it didn't have the best graphics in the world so could be done at a reasonable budget I'd be all over it.
Edit: Incidentally WRC4 was pretty close, love that game, its even great on Vita!
I'm not surprised, they've made some terrible decisions throughout the years since last generation started.
GRID was supposed to be the spiritual successor of the TOCA games, then they release GRID 2 which is nothing like GRID and the TOCA games, after which they rush out GRID: Autosport with barely any marketing at all.
DiRT was a great rally game packed with content, then they get watered down with DiRT2 and 3, which also added that dudebro feel for no reason at all. And their F1 games have been subpar for a few years.
To be honest, the EGO engine never felt like a good engine for race games. Their problems started when last gen began.
GRID was supposed to be the spiritual successor of the TOCA games, then they release GRID 2 which is nothing like GRID and the TOCA games, after which they rush out GRID: Autosport with barely any marketing at all.
DiRT was a great rally game packed with content, then they get watered down with DiRT2 and 3, which also added that dudebro feel for no reason at all. And their F1 games have been subpar for a few years.
To be honest, the EGO engine never felt like a good engine for race games. Their problems started when last gen began.
Mohonky
Member
Pretty disappointing, but so was the direction with DiRT and Grid. Dirt was fucking awesome, then 2 and 3 became a gymkhana / x games wank fest for names like Pastrana and Block.
Dirt has gone too far from rally for me to get excited. I loved the trophy trucks and buggies in the series, and its something I would love to see more of, I felt Dirt had a good balance as its a discipline missing from racing games. But that gymkhana and x games showy shit needed to go.
Then Grid came along and got Need For Speeded with its reputation points and all the other shit. Autosport was probably better from what I heard but after 2 and the shit that went down with Dirt I was over giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I am goping they get rid of the gimmicky shit and back to basics because they have some awesome racers, but they keep getting let down by this content that seems like its being thrown in to appease the youtube crowd.
Dirt has gone too far from rally for me to get excited. I loved the trophy trucks and buggies in the series, and its something I would love to see more of, I felt Dirt had a good balance as its a discipline missing from racing games. But that gymkhana and x games showy shit needed to go.
Then Grid came along and got Need For Speeded with its reputation points and all the other shit. Autosport was probably better from what I heard but after 2 and the shit that went down with Dirt I was over giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I am goping they get rid of the gimmicky shit and back to basics because they have some awesome racers, but they keep getting let down by this content that seems like its being thrown in to appease the youtube crowd.
Scaramanger
Member
I can never understand why they thought that stuff was important? I've not met/spoken to a single person that liked it? Maybe that says more about my circle of friends than anything and maybe its been more popular across the pond but here in the UK it just seems CM have pushed their audience away.