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CohhCarnage (twitch-streamer) notes that Mafia III PC is locked to 30 fps

randomengine said:
I think it is interesting how the mere technical limitations of a game make it completely unplayable. I used to be in the PC enthusiast crowd. I bought a top of the line Radeon back when Radeon kicked Geforce ass. I was able to run the Doom 3 Alpha code and boy did it struggle, but hey I got to see a glimpse of the future. I ran No One Lives Forever 2 at the highest settings and it looked gorgeous....

But at no time would I ever not play a game because it is 30 fps locked. What about the story? What about the gameplay? What about the game design, systems? Is it fun?

Who gives a shit in enthusiast PC land. All that matters is the performance. Jesus guys, you might as well just run tech demos on your PC instead of actual games. I am being sarcastic, but maybe you might actually be happier. I think every single PC game that is ever released is met with some form of performance disappointment. Maybe you just enjoy being perpetually disappointed by always setting your standards too high. I just don't understand this demographic anymore. It isn't about the games at this point. We are entering meta-gaming territory.

It used to be about making a certain game look it's best, not saying we knew better than the developers. Maybe there is a reason it is 30 fps locked and it was a design/aesthetic decision.
Click to expand...

People pay more for higher end hardware to avoid running games at 30 fps. So yes, it's a bummer when you're forced to do that.

Also let's be real, there are very few cases out there that 30 fps is an aesthetic decision for a PC game. Because aesthetically it is never a superior choice as opposed to having a choice to balance framerate and visuals as you please. At the point that someone calls it an aesthetic choice you might as well say the game shouldn't have any visual options above the console version either because the console version was the "aesthetic they intended" or something along those lines.

30 fps doesn't stop me from playing games I want to play (I own a lot of consoles after all) but on PC it does effect what I'm willing to pay for that game.
 
exmachina64 said:
Many AAA games this generation aren't building the PC version in-house. For a variety of reasons, it gets outsourced and made with limited resources.
Click to expand...

A lot of PC gamers don't understand that the PC is the bad port for a lot of these games. The premier edition is the console. It was designed and targeted for the console and then thrown on PC as an afterthought. PC gamers keep expecting the "best" version, the ultimate edition. I just don't understand why they keep expecting that, when it hasn't been the case since Steam began.

Sure, certain games like Skyrim were designed on PC and ported to consoles. In that case the PC version is best, but Mafia 3 appears to be a console game first. Standard expectations of bad PC release should have applied. I understand Mafia was a PC franchise, but 2K is a console publisher.
 
mullet2000 said:
People pay more for higher end hardware to avoid running games at 30 fps. So yes, it's a bummer when you're forced to do that.

Also let's be real, there are very few cases out there that 30 fps is an aesthetic decision for a PC game.

30 fps doesn't stop me from playing games I want to play (I own a lot of consoles after all) but on PC it does effect what I'm willing to pay for that game.
Click to expand...

Well then, that makes a lot of sense. A lot of these pre-order cancelled gave me the impression that the game would be unplayable, period. People waiting for discounts to then play the game sounds more reasonable.
 
randomengine said:
All of these games are designed for the consoles these days, then ported to PC. They are designed with the console limitations in mind. This has been going on for years and years since Steam has existed. The PC Renaissance occurred because of consoles games being ported to PCs. This keeps happening and PC gamers keep being surprised that it does. Why are you all still surprised? It should be expected by now.

I am not "defending" 30 fps. I am simply stating that there is more to a game than its frame rate.
Click to expand...
You can design a game for consoles WITHOUT having it locked to a certain resolution/framerate. Allowing arbitrary framerate and resolutions is not rocket science!


Expected by now? Holy shit, have you actually bothered to follow at all AAAs on PC these last years.
Spoiler: the vast majority of them are not locked at 30fps. You know why? It's 2016, and if by now you aren't using a engine and development practice that allow for those simple things, you're shooting yourself in the foot, and shooting the future of your games in the foot too.
 
randomengine said:
A lot of PC gamers don't understand that the PC is the bad port for a lot of these games. The premier edition is the console. It was designed and targeted for the console and then thrown on PC as an afterthought. PC gamers keep expecting the "best" version, the ultimate edition. I just don't understand why they keep expecting that, when it hasn't been the case since Steam began.

Sure, certain games like Skyrim were designed on PC and ported to consoles. In that case the PC version is best, but Mafia 3 appears to be a console game first. Standard expectations of bad PC release should have applied. I understand Mafia was a PC franchise, but 2K is a console publisher.
Click to expand...

Wait, so your excuse for developers is what we already know? A lot of AAA games are designed with consoles in mind first, so we should just stop talking about how much money we spent on our hardware, accept lazy development, mediocrity from a PC standards standpoint, and just play? Just give them money for a great game even though they can't meet PC standards set a loooooooooooooong time ago...? What kind of apologist bullshit is this, my guy?
 
randomengine said:
A lot of PC gamers don't understand that the PC is the bad port for a lot of these games. The premier edition is the console. It was designed and targeted for the console and then thrown on PC as an afterthought. PC gamers keep expecting the "best" version, the ultimate edition. I just don't understand why they keep expecting that, when it hasn't been the case since Steam began.

Sure, certain games like Skyrim were designed on PC and ported to consoles. In that case the PC version is best, but Mafia 3 appears to be a console game first. Standard expectations of bad PC release should have applied. I understand Mafia was a PC franchise, but 2K is a console publisher.
Click to expand...

What is this shit? The normal expectations is the PC port will be bad? That's hasn't been the case in many years now.
 
IcyRhythms said:
Wait, so your excuse for developers is what we already know? A lot of AAA games are designed with consoles in mind first, so we should just stop talking about how much money we spent on our hardware, accept lazy development, mediocrity from a PC standards standpoint, and just play? Just give them money for a great game even though they can't meet PC standards set a loooooooooooooong time ago...? What kind of apologist bullshit is this, my guy?
Click to expand...
I think it might be better to ignore him at this point, dude has clearly no idea of what he is talking about in the skightest.
 
Chobel said:
Oh of course, the obligatory "I'm PC gamer and I don't care, so you shouldn't care too".
Click to expand...

Oh of course, the obligatory "reduce a complex message into a one-sentence entertaining and sarcastic one-sentence summary".

Well done.

Anyway, I didn't say people shouldn't care. I was surprised by people not wanting to play a game simply due to frame rate. Gaming would be in a sad state if that was what was actually happening.
 
asked GMG about getting a refund...pretty sure I have no chance in hell but only option I have

also this will be the last time I ever pre-order a game of any kind
 
randomengine said:
A lot of PC gamers don't understand that the PC is the bad port for a lot of these games. The premier edition is the console. It was designed and targeted for the console and then thrown on PC as an afterthought. PC gamers keep expecting the "best" version, the ultimate edition. I just don't understand why they keep expecting that, when it hasn't been the case since Steam began.

Sure, certain games like Skyrim were designed on PC and ported to consoles. In that case the PC version is best, but Mafia 3 appears to be a console game first. Standard expectations of bad PC release should have applied. I understand Mafia was a PC franchise, but 2K is a console publisher.
Click to expand...
People aren't stupid they understand most games are built console first but that doesn't mean they should expect or tolerate substandard ports.
 
randomengine said:
Oh of course, the obligatory "reduce a complex message into a one-sentence entertaining and sarcastic one-sentence summary".

Well done.

Anyway, I didn't say people shouldn't care. I was surprised by people not wanting to play a game simply due to frame rate. Gaming would be in a sad state if that was what was actually happening.
Click to expand...

It's not about the frame rate by itself. It's about being FORCED to play it at console speeds on higher-end hardware. There is absolutely no reason for that, and no, this isn't the norm as you claimed in your earlier post.
 
randomengine said:
I think it is interesting how the mere technical limitations of a game make it completely unplayable. I used to be in the PC enthusiast crowd. I bought a top of the line Radeon back when Radeon kicked Geforce ass. I was able to run the Doom 3 Alpha code and boy did it struggle, but hey I got to see a glimpse of the future. I ran No One Lives Forever 2 at the highest settings and it looked gorgeous....

But at no time would I ever not play a game because it is 30 fps locked. What about the story? What about the gameplay? What about the game design, systems? Is it fun?

Who gives a shit in enthusiast PC land. All that matters is the performance. Jesus guys, you might as well just run tech demos on your PC instead of actual games. I am being sarcastic, but maybe you might actually be happier. I think every single PC game that is ever released is met with some form of performance disappointment. Maybe you just enjoy being perpetually disappointed by always setting your standards too high. I just don't understand this demographic anymore. It isn't about the games at this point. We are entering meta-gaming territory.

It used to be about making a certain game look it's best, not saying we knew better than the developers. Maybe there is a reason it is 30 fps locked and it was a design/aesthetic decision.
Click to expand...
You made a lot of effort for a troll.

Not buying the game isn't about it being unplayable at 30 FPS. It's about sending a message to the developers that reduced options in a 2016 PC game is unacceptable.
 
From the PC performance thread, apparently animations and physics are tied to FPS, whole game slows down when limited to 15 fps.
 
randomengine said:
A lot of PC gamers don't understand that the PC is the bad port for a lot of these games. The premier edition is the console. It was designed and targeted for the console and then thrown on PC as an afterthought. PC gamers keep expecting the "best" version, the ultimate edition. I just don't understand why they keep expecting that, when it hasn't been the case since Steam began.

Sure, certain games like Skyrim were designed on PC and ported to consoles. In that case the PC version is best, but Mafia 3 appears to be a console game first. Standard expectations of bad PC release should have applied. I understand Mafia was a PC franchise, but 2K is a console publisher.
Click to expand...

And this isn't true for the vast majority of games being released. "The premier edition" is the "edition" that allows the most flexibility and feature set to the users, and the almost always remains the PC version even when you limit that to what developers alone produce. But that clearly isn't what your agenda is in this discussion is it, which doesn't even relate to this current issue in the first place, where the console will run it at the same framerate
 
Aww man and this was my most anticipated game this year. Good thing then I got it for $30 from Humble Bundle. I was going to buy the season pass but screw that jive now.
 
5taquitos said:
From the PC performance thread, apparently animations and physics are tied to FPS, whole game slows down when limited to 15 fps.
Click to expand...

This is what I was most afraid of if true.

If the animations were developed with 30fps cap in mind, even unlocking it won't save anything. It'll be jittery as hell.

Hangar 13 - yo, what are you doing?! This is severely sabotaging there prospect of the game doing well. This 30fps controversy is going to drag all the good it had going for it to the ground :/
 
randomengine said:
I think it is interesting how the mere technical limitations of a game make it completely unplayable. I used to be in the PC enthusiast crowd. I bought a top of the line Radeon back when Radeon kicked Geforce ass. I was able to run the Doom 3 Alpha code and boy did it struggle, but hey I got to see a glimpse of the future. I ran No One Lives Forever 2 at the highest settings and it looked gorgeous....

But at no time would I ever not play a game because it is 30 fps locked. What about the story? What about the gameplay? What about the game design, systems? Is it fun?

Who gives a shit in enthusiast PC land. All that matters is the performance. Jesus guys, you might as well just run tech demos on your PC instead of actual games. I am being sarcastic, but maybe you might actually be happier. I think every single PC game that is ever released is met with some form of performance disappointment. Maybe you just enjoy being perpetually disappointed by always setting your standards too high. I just don't understand this demographic anymore. It isn't about the games at this point. We are entering meta-gaming territory.

It used to be about making a certain game look it's best, not saying we knew better than the developers. Maybe there is a reason it is 30 fps locked and it was a design/aesthetic decision.
Click to expand...


i hated metal gear rising until i figured out the bug with framerate. going from 30 to 60 made a world of difference. it matters.
 
Chobel said:
What is this shit? The normal expectations is the PC port will be bad? That's hasn't been the case in many years now.
Click to expand...

Sure it has. I've seen tons of these threads over the years for many AAA games. Batman, this, Evil Within, PC gamers love to bitch about performance.

The only major development houses that are doing PC-First are Blizzard, Firaxis, CDProjekt, and some Bethesda....and that's about it. Everything else is PC-ports or indie or niche development (like Crusader Kings).

Those are the only times you should expect the PC version to be better (or the best version).
 
Whompa02 said:
I cannot even begin to fathom why this is a dealbreaker for some...
Click to expand...
Because this kind of limitations is fucking dumb in a AAA game in 2016, and they didn't even clarify this before release! If you're going to have your AAA 60$ game up for preorder, you better be upfront with your mess.
 
Nzyme32 said:
And this isn't true for the vast majority of games being released. "The premier edition" is the "edition" that allows the most flexibility and feature set to the users, and the almost always remains the PC version even when you limit that to what developers alone produce. But that clearly isn't what your agenda is in this discussion is it, which doesn't even relate to this current issue in the first place, where the console will run it at the same framerate
Click to expand...

Typically the best version of any game is the original version and system for which it was designed. In most cases a port is never better than the original. Hell, look at all the attempts just to get Super Mario Bros. to work like the original NES.

Silent Hill 2 was ported to PC, but everyone swears by the PS2 version. PC hardware power isn't everything.
 
Nzyme32 said:
Yeah but then how long is soon. I'm only going to wait a few days within the refund Window and if they don't resolve it I will simply get on with all the other games and pick up some other stuff
Click to expand...

I'd refund, then buy it on sale later. The "soon" thing can work both ways.
 
randomengine said:
A lot of PC gamers don't understand that the PC is the bad port for a lot of these games. The premier edition is the console. It was designed and targeted for the console and then thrown on PC as an afterthought. PC gamers keep expecting the "best" version, the ultimate edition. I just don't understand why they keep expecting that, when it hasn't been the case since Steam began.
Click to expand...

What a silly thing to say. Unless a game is literally unplayable, the PC version is almost always going to be the best version, even in the very rare instance where it's a 1:1 port of the console version.
 
RK9039 said:
Some of us have higher standards.
Click to expand...

"perish the thought"

thesurvivors129.jpg
 
packy34 said:
It's not about the frame rate by itself. It's about being FORCED to play it at console speeds on higher-end hardware. There is absolutely no reason for that, and no, this isn't the norm as you claimed in your earlier post.
Click to expand...

Have you ever attempted to play an emulated game at your existing clock rate? Faster is not always better. We are talking about art here, not science.

It is in fact the norm for console-designed games to be released in a sub-par state on PC. It happens all the time.
 
randomengine said:
Typically the best version of any game is the original version and system for which it was designed. In most cases a port is never better than the original. Hell, look at all the attempts just to get Super Mario Bros. to work like the original NES.

Silent Hill 2 was ported to PC, but everyone swears by the PS2 version. PC hardware power isn't everything.
Click to expand...

The few examples you list are the outliers, vast majority of the time PC version is the best version, don't know how there can be any arguments there
 
another thing I just remembered...

They had an event in New Orleans a few weeks ago for streamers and such where they got to play the PC version. Why wasn't any of this 30FPS lock/bad perfoemance/no UI scaling/etc talked about then? They all talked about how great the PC version ran/looked. Makes me question/not believe a thing that any of those people ever have to say again.
 
JudgmentJay said:
What a silly thing to say. Unless a game is literally unplayable, the PC version is almost always going to be the best version, even in the very rare instance where it's a 1:1 port of the console version.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, that made me guffaw. That's PC elitism right there. Even if the versions are 100% identical and the same, PC still wins, eh? Alright, alright, alright.
 
randomengine said:
Have you ever attempted to play an emulated game at your existing clock rate? Faster is not always better. We are talking about art here, not science.

It is in fact the norm for console-designed games to be released in a sub-par state on PC. It happens all the time.
Click to expand...
The very fact that you call them "subpar" means you should be able to understand why people might complain about them.
 
perfectsil said:
The few examples you list are the outliers, vast majority of the time PC version is the best version, don't know how there can be any arguments there
Click to expand...
Not only that, Arkham Knight and Evil Within still have their PC versions being the best versions.
He literally can't find a single recent example where a AAA PC port is actually worse than the console version
 
randomengine said:
A lot of PC gamers don't understand that the PC is the bad port for a lot of these games. The premier edition is the console. It was designed and targeted for the console and then thrown on PC as an afterthought. PC gamers keep expecting the "best" version, the ultimate edition. I just don't understand why they keep expecting that, when it hasn't been the case since Steam began.

Sure, certain games like Skyrim were designed on PC and ported to consoles. In that case the PC version is best, but Mafia 3 appears to be a console game first. Standard expectations of bad PC release should have applied. I understand Mafia was a PC franchise, but 2K is a console publisher.
Click to expand...

Total fucking horse tripe.

Even this shitty port is better than the console versions due to having higher fidelity settings and resolution. And that's how it is for just about every other bad PC port.
 
Nyteshade517 said:
another thing I just remembered...

They had an event in New Orleans a few weeks ago for streamers and such where they got to play the PC version. Why wasn't any of this 30FPS lock/bad perfoemance/no UI scaling/etc talked about then? They all talked about how great the PC version ran/looked. Makes me question/not believe a thing that any of those people ever have to say again.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't understand this either. I looked through some old articles and even while specific graphics options are mentioned, there are no references at all to framerate.

And then there are the streamers - "1080p/ 60fps VIDEO GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE" rolling in 30fps. Is there any video that exists of it running in a higher framerate?
 
randomengine said:
Have you ever attempted to play an emulated game at your existing clock rate? Faster is not always better. We are talking about art here, not science.

It is in fact the norm for console-designed games to be released in a sub-par state on PC. It happens all the time.
Click to expand...
I find the idea that this behaviour is tolerated here to be quite depressing.
 
randomengine said:
Sure it has. I've seen tons of these threads over the years for many AAA games. Batman, this, Evil Within, PC gamers love to bitch about performance.

The only major development houses that are doing PC-First are Blizzard, Firaxis, CDProjekt, and some Bethesda....and that's about it. Everything else is PC-ports or indie or niche development (like Crusader Kings).

Those are the only times you should expect the PC version to be better (or the best version).
Click to expand...

Few bad ports = standard? Are you freaking kidding me?

EDIT: Reading the rest of your post... You're just trolling at this point.
 
randomengine said:
Hahaha, that made me guffaw. That's PC elitism right there. Even if the versions are 100% identical and the same, PC still wins, eh? Alright, alright, alright.
Click to expand...

Dark Souls is a great example. 1:1 port and yet I can play it at 4k60 with DSFix. Even if a game is a 1:1 port, there's almost always something you can do to increase the resolution and/or framerate. You can also use Reshade/SweetFX/ENB-style mods to improve the look of the game. And of course you have the freedom to use whatever input method you want.
 
Piggus said:
Total fucking horse tripe.

Even this shitty port is better than the console versions due to having higher fidelity settings and resolution. And that's how it is for just about every other bad PC port.
Click to expand...

If that were true, then you should all be happy with this "shitty" port.
 
Corpekata said:
Why you guys even talking to random about PC stuff? The dude literally trolls about this shit all the time and then will call you a harassing bully for making fun of No Man's Sky. You're better off talking to a wall.
Click to expand...

Holy fuck guys. You'd be better off asking a Vita owner to swear off anime.

Edit: God damnit the last post.
 
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