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Community S4 |OT| I Remember When This Show Was About Community College

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I spewed my coffee at "I broke the remote."

This episode is exactly why I'm going to continue going in with zero expectations. In the end I really enjoyed it! More than the premiere at least. Quirky hijinks as well as some character moments towards the end. The mansion looking like a hybrid between some tacky night club and a movie theater was neat. People say the sets were bad, but maybe that was the point?

Also, I approve of "The Ring" Annie.

I've been watching this show since the pilot and while I see why people are having trouble enjoying it now, I've decided to try my best to leave baggage at the door.
 
Rash said:
I spewed my coffee at "I broke the remote."

This episode is exactly why I'm going to continue going in with zero expectations. In the end I really enjoyed it! Quirky hijinks as well as some character moments towards the end. The mansion looking like a hybrid between some tacky night club and a movie theater was neat.

Also, I approve of "The Ring" Annie.
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Funniest thing in my opinion was the things scene.

"We do some things together...we do A LOT of things together...not ALL the things....THINGS."
 
Thug Waffle said:
Where are people hearing this?
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This is why I'm fine with being ignorant before going into further episodes. I don't need my expectations set. If you think an episode will be bad, it'll be bad (or at least worse than it actually is).

If the episode is legitimately bad, I want to make that call for myself. This is why I never read reviews for TV show episodes, even in the cases of my favorite shows (like the AMC trifecta).
 
While the thread title rings true even in the most pessimistic sense, I think it's the idiosyncrasies of the characters that holds my weekly interest. To use a subtle though perhaps relatively obvious example, Troy and Annie screaming at one another only to, use a tired phrase, turn that frown upside down, got me good. "Ahhhhhhhhhhhey, it's just you!"
 
Mariolee said:
A/V Club said that the next episode (Inspector Spacetime Convention)
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Wow. Theyve really fucking hammered that "barely a joke" into the ground. Not sure I can even bring myself to watch next weeks travesty.

Why even pay these hack writers at all? Just film some ad-libbed hijinx of the cast in the fucking study room for a 6-8 ep season. Would have been funnier and on an even more miniscule budget.
 
Things!

Good episode, though the budget really is taking its toll: the "mansion" looked terrible. Otherwise, yeah, there were some good bits there and there and it was structurally sound. We'll see where they go from here.

(The "swing room" was probably my favorite bit. Shirley's reactions were perfect)

Nugg said:
Maybe she should be
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Showrunning is more than just writing.
 
Hack writers? Seriously? This is what I was talking about with the negativity. I understand that people may not like this season but it's definitely not the writers who are at blame. Especially when the two episodes we've seen so far have been written by Community veterans.
 
watched it last night....

Fantastic episode. I said I would judge the season by the Halloween episode, and it delivered. Season saved.

Only thing I thought was off was Annies voice. She doesnt sound 18 anymore :(
 
Jest Chillin said:
Hack writers? Seriously? This is what I was talking about with the negativity. I understand that people may not like this season but it's definitely not the writers who are at blame. Especially when the two episodes we've seen so far have been written by Community veterans.
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It's definitely a combination of the new showrunners and Sony generally being an ass.
 
SlowRevolution said:
She's written some good episodes but I don't really get the Ganz worship. It's mostly on Reddit.
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She's credited on a lot of the good episodes, she gets in the public eye with Reddit (and not just for AMAs), twitter, and podcasts ... if the other writers consciously tried to take a higher profile, they could do the same and get some of that love too.
 
I didn't really like it; it just wasn't funny. All the jokes fell flat. The only good part of the episode was the "swing room" scene. "Secret Dogs!"

I also thought Pierce's mansion looked horrible, but I thought that was part of the joke.
 
beat said:
She's credited on a lot of the good episodes, she gets in the public eye with Reddit (and not just for AMAs), twitter, and podcasts ... if the other writers consciously tried to take a higher profile, they could do the same and get some of that love too.
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It's weird that we're at the point where a STORY EDITOR (now a producer, but stil) is as high profile as Megan.

I think she's a great writer, but I wonder... Could she have swung a job on Modern Family if she wasn't such a high profile mid-level writer? The awareness about her absolutely helps.

Also, Andy Bobrow is on Save Me now. He wrote the episode they're shooting right now.
 
_Keiichi_ said:
So this episode was written by Megan Ganz, who wrote for Community for 4 years now, and people still manage to say it doesn't feel like a Community episode... right.
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If anything, this provides ample proof of how much Harmon impacted the tone and direction of every episode in obvious and less tangible ways. It's the opposite of what you're trying to argue really. Even with a seasoned Community writer, it still feels off.

The previous episodes that were written by Megan Ganz, Harmon was probably, a. present in breaking the episode, b. present in rewriting Megan's drafts (uncredited), c. present and providing feedback during shooting, d. present in editing.

There's a reason he was always behind schedule. He had his hand in many pots.

For the record I thought it was much better than the opener, but still felt hollow.
 
ivysaur12 said:
It's weird that we're at the point where a STORY EDITOR (now a producer, but stil) is as high profile as Megan.
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Community has an insane fanbase. Do any other shows have fans who could name most of the writing staff? Mmmmaybe Buffy, and that's going back a long way.

(OK, I could also name a chunk of the Happy Endings writing staff, but I'm a big nerd.)


Could she have swung a job on Modern Family if she wasn't such a high profile mid-level writer? The awareness about her absolutely helps.
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I dunno how much it could help, though. The Community/MF fan overlap is probably not going to grow any more with Ganz on board. And shoot, she got that Community job with zero profile.
 
beat said:
Community has an insane fanbase. Do any other shows have fans who could name most of the writing staff? Mmmmaybe Buffy, and that's going back a long way.

(OK, I could also name a chunk of the Happy Endings writing staff, but I'm a big nerd.)



I dunno how much it could help, though. The Community/MF fan overlap is probably not going to grow any more with Ganz on board. And shoot, she got that Community job with zero profile.
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In the past Seinfeld and The Simpsons were the same way. Especially when Conan was a writer.
 
beat said:
Community has an insane fanbase. Do any other shows have fans who could name most of the writing staff? Mmmmaybe Buffy, and that's going back a long way.

(OK, I could also name a chunk of the Happy Endings writing staff, but I'm a big nerd.)



I dunno how much it could help, though. The Community/MF fan overlap is probably not going to grow any more with Ganz on board. And shoot, she got that Community job with zero profile.
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Considering that the Modern Family producers seem allergic to hiring women besides Elaine Ko, it's a huge deal. I think there's a lot of "buzz" around Megan, if that makes sense. Her social media presence has only helped that.

And no, they couldn't. I don't even think Breaking Bad or Mad Men fans could name the majority of the writing staff.

Baconsammy said:
In the past Seinfeld and The Simpsons were the same way. Especially when Conan was a writer.
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I think the proliferation of social media and writers as personalities and not just names in the credits has helped. The fact that my friends from college know who Kurt Sutter or Shonda Rhimes is seems a bit mind boggling. But Kurt and Shonda are also super public figures on social media, which helps.
 
Baconsammy said:
In the past Seinfeld and The Simpsons were the same way. Especially when Conan was a writer.
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That's a good point about the Simpsons. OK, them too. Simpsons (and Futurama) fans are crazy too, or at least they were (SNPP and alt.tv.simpsons were and are genuinely nuts -- the show's fans watched that show as closely as any fans have watched any show). And while I noticed some of the writers' names, it wasn't until I heard them on DVD commentary tracks that I started to keep track of who they were, what they wrote, etc. (Thank you Matt Groening for insisting on commentary tracks for every episode and for inviting the writers to take part.)

I guess I was never a big Seinfeld fan because to this day I couldn't name any staff writer on that show.
 
Decent episode. Most all of the story beats worked well and we got some good resolution. Still didn't really pack in as many jokes as I expect from the show, but it was closer. Loved Annie talking about not getting references and pretty much everything Britta did. Episode looked really cheap, I guess that's something I can get used to though. Maybe. Feel like we need a standard episode, at the community college, to see if it'll feel okay. But it looks like we won't be getting that any time soon.

My one big complaint: I'm worried they've completely lost Abed's character. He was terrible in this episode. A complicated and interesting character blurred nearly to the point that he's nearly unrecognizable. He's truly coming off as a parody of himself.
Abed was always the most volatile character and therefore the hardest to pull off. And what I've read has made it seem like a big part of the reason the character worked before was Harmon carefully guiding him. After this episode, I could see the remaining writers and cast being able to execute on pretty much every character, eventually and if they take the right steps. It would be possible. I don't think that about Abed. I think he may have been the one character that only Dan really fully comprehended.
 
big ander said:
Feel like we need a standard episode, at the community college, to see if it'll feel okay. But it looks like we won't be getting that any time soon.
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There'll have to be some school stuff. Jim Rash and Ken Jeong's characters aren't core friends, so the best way to involve them in an episode is to do some Greendale stuff. A few of the recurring actors will show up again, and that'll probably also be at Greendale. And we know the history teacher's been cast.
 
beat said:
There'll have to be some school stuff. Jim Rash and Ken Jeong's characters aren't core friends, so the best way to involve them in an episode is to do some Greendale stuff. A few of the recurring actors will show up again, and that'll probably also be at Greendale. And we know the history teacher's been cast.
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I know it'll come eventually, but had I been ordering the episodes I would have wanted it...first. Or second, at least. Instead we get an episode where the school is turned upside down, and an episode spent in a cheap mansion set. I understand that's more a victim of scheduling than anything else though, but just up to that point. I don't get why, then, the third episode needs to be an
Inspector Spacetime convention.
Like, not only is that a pretty awful idea for an episode in the first place, but it has us further unrooted. The entire plan of this show was to move away from the college eventually, but the shaking up has made it feel awkward.
 
beat said:
That's a good point about the Simpsons. OK, them too. Simpsons (and Futurama) fans are crazy too, or at least they were (SNPP and alt.tv.simpsons were and are genuinely nuts -- the show's fans watched that show as closely as any fans have watched any show). And while I noticed some of the writers' names, it wasn't until I heard them on DVD commentary tracks that I started to keep track of who they were, what they wrote, etc. (Thank you Matt Groening for insisting on commentary tracks for every episode and for inviting the writers to take part.)

I guess I was never a big Seinfeld fan because to this day I couldn't name any staff writer on that show.
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For me it was Conan and Swartzwelder. If the episode was written by either of them, I got a little more excited to watch. Another show where I watched both the writer and director was X Files. RIP Kim Manners.
 
beat said:
Community has an insane fanbase. Do any other shows have fans who could name most of the writing staff? Mmmmaybe Buffy, and that's going back a long way..
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The only other ones I can think of are Deep Space Nine and Battlestar Galactica (the remake), more so the former.
 
RatskyWatsky said:
I didn't really like it; it just wasn't funny. All the jokes fell flat. The only good part of the episode was the "swing room" scene. "Secret Dogs!"
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Yeah, that was the one part where I laughed... which immediately reminded me I hadn't laughed for the rest of the episode.

Not that it was bad. The Britta stuff was ok, if a bit too in line with expectations. At this rate I'll keep enjoying it for what it is now. But it's just sad everything that was done to this show (not just Harmon's absence).
 
Babylon 5, Star Trek, and Doctor Who all have large numbers of fans who care about who writes what. Really any show with a strong showrunner or proto-showrunner (since it's a recent evolution) is likely to have behind the scenes personalities become part of the fan awareness of the show, including and especially writers. I think there's a perception that the writers matter more on such shows, and that some of them are being groomed to become showrunners themselves.
 
I enjoyed the Halloween episode more than the first episode. Seemed tighter and more typical of the show. Plus I always like when the cast is in various costumes. Fun one!
 
Also, what do you guys think are the odds of NBC picking up this up for a new season, and if they're low, then what are the odds of someone like Hulu Plus maybe picking this show up?
 
Mariolee said:
Also, what do you guys think are the odds of NBC picking up this up for a new season, and if they're low, then what are the odds of someone like Hulu Plus maybe picking this show up?
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The odds of picking up a show that by all accounts has lost its magic due to the showrunner being canned? Not high. The writers have found other jobs as well. This show is toast. It's not like NBC is swimming in success stories, though. Ever since The Voice and Sunday Night Football departed, they went from first place to dead last.
 
Mariolee said:
Also, what do you guys think are the odds of NBC picking up this up for a new season, and if they're low, then what are the odds of someone like Hulu Plus maybe picking this show up?
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Honestly, at this point: flip a coin. With the premiere getting a good number a viewers, the second episode plummeting, and NBC being practically on fire between stuff like Up All Night, Go On, New Normal...hell EVERY show on NBC while its darling Office is finishing, I have no clue. Seems like there are 10 shows on that net that could go any direction, and that will change where each show after it can go.

If it were canceled, I think it might be picked up by Hulu or Netflix. Dunno. Seems like if that were to happen to another show, it would be Community.
 
big ander said:
Honestly, at this point: flip a coin. With the premiere getting a good number a viewers, the second episode plummeting, and NBC being practically on fire between stuff like Up All Night, Go On, New Normal...hell EVERY show on NBC while its darling Office is finishing, I have no clue. Seems like there are 10 shows on that net that could go any direction, and that will change where each show after it can go.

If it were canceled, I think it might be picked up by Hulu or Netflix. Dunno. Seems like if that were to happen to another show, it would be Community.
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Not to derail the thread but... Go On is doing well? I mean, I like it quite a bit, and it has gotten significantly better since the premiere, but I figured not many people would care about it. It just seems too innocent for these times.

Edit: Oh, all right, I thought you meant it in an NBA Jam kind of way, haha.
 
Mariolee said:
Also, what do you guys think are the odds of NBC picking up this up for a new season, and if they're low, then what are the odds of someone like Hulu Plus maybe picking this show up?
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Unlikely, but I also don't really feel it would need another season if the storylines centered around Jeff getting his degree get tied up by seasons end.
 
Rehynn said:
Not to derail the thread but... Go On is doing well? I mean, I like it quite a bit, and it has gotten significantly better since the premiere, but I figured not many people would care about it. It just seems too innocent for these times.
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No no, NBC being on fire with those shows in that they're all doing awful. I meant NBC is in figurative flames. It's falling apart. sorry that was confusing :lol
 
big ander said:
Honestly, at this point: flip a coin. With the premiere getting a good number a viewers, the second episode plummeting, and NBC being practically on fire between stuff like Up All Night, Go On, New Normal...hell EVERY show on NBC while its darling Office is finishing, I have no clue. Seems like there are 10 shows on that net that could go any direction, and that will change where each show after it can go.

If it were canceled, I think it might be picked up by Hulu or Netflix. Dunno. Seems like if that were to happen to another show, it would be Community.
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If Community gets canceled, I'm pretty sure that's it.

Memles said it best: Sony has some very tough choices in terms of which shows it lowers its licensing fees for. I believe the only scripted broadcast shows they have are Rules of Engagement, Community, Happy Endings, Unforgettable, and Save Me, plus the Michael J Fox show already ordered for next season (they also have Breaking Bad, Justified, and Necessary Roughness). They can't really count on any of their new shows being sure fire hits, as Pan Am and Last Resort were supposed to be game changers for the studio.
 
big ander said:
I thought so too, but some review with G&P made them seem pretty into the whole idea, as if they'd considered it some already...though they're pretty much paid to say that, so I'm pretty off.
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I edited my post above, but Community already is being syndicated. Netflix wouldn't be interested without Dan (with Dan, that's a different story). Same with Amazon Prime. So, yeah. If NBC cancels it, that's that. It'll be interesting to see what happens, because this is probably the end of Rules.
 
Rehynn said:
Not to derail the thread but... Go On is doing well? I mean, I like it quite a bit, and it has gotten significantly better since the premiere, but I figured not many people would care about it. It just seems too innocent for these times.

Edit: Oh, all right, I thought you meant it in an NBA Jam kind of way, haha.
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Go On was doing big numbers for NBC with The Voice leading into it. Once The Voice exited, so did Go On's respectable ratings. Now it's a bomb like the rest of their schedule. You can't say NBC isn't capable of spotting talent (30 Rock, Parks and Rec, Community prove otherwise), but they don't seem to have an eye for critically acclaimed shows that also draw big ratings. And when they try the CBS approach of appealing to a boring middle-of-America show like Jimmy Fallon's Guys With Kids, it bombs too. They cant buy a break. They need The Voice to run 24/7 or the NFL to play 52 weeks a year (I bet America would like that too).
 
big ander said:
My one big complaint: I'm worried they've completely lost Abed's character. He was terrible in this episode. A complicated and interesting character blurred nearly to the point that he's nearly unrecognizable. He's truly coming off as a parody of himself.
Abed was always the most volatile character and therefore the hardest to pull off. And what I've read has made it seem like a big part of the reason the character worked before was Harmon carefully guiding him. After this episode, I could see the remaining writers and cast being able to execute on pretty much every character, eventually and if they take the right steps. It would be possible. I don't think that about Abed. I think he may have been the one character that only Dan really fully comprehended.
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I remember reading or watching an interview with Harmon stating that as fans watched the series, they commented that Abed really might have Aspergers and this caused Harmon to check out this himself. He went so far as to go to a doctor to get a diagnosis, but I don't remember whether he found out if he really had Aspergers. Either way, Harmon stated he felt like he could relate to Abed the most out of the group, although each person in the group contain aspects of him.
 
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