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Community S4 |OT| I Remember When This Show Was About Community College
- Thread starter Mariolee
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As someone who loved the first three seasons dearly, I can't believe how bad I am finding this season. I've maybe laughed five times all season. Even when the general concept for the episodes are good like this one, the jokes are sparse and too often fall flat. I guess I know how some people felt about season 3 now. Shame.
Manmademan
Member
I love the rare glimpses of why "everyone hates the study group" that pop up now and then. There aren't many episodes that do this, but it's amusing when it happens.
Yeah. I think I've laughed... three times in the first three episodes. I've groaned even more (especially with terrible punchlines like "you're on your own, Al Capone.").
I actually got a lot of solid laughs from this episode, even with some of the jokes falling flat (a lot of Jeff->Troy lines didn't hit the mark for me). Still, by far the best episode of the season, and surprisingly didn't feel all that out of place given the episode shuffle.
I was just thinking that myself.... surely the fan base hasn't jumped ship... right?!?! I mean for crying out loud, it was a blessing just to get a 13-episode Season 4. At least enjoy what we can have.
Yeah you can definitely tell that this should have been the second episode of the season, but it still fit, I guess. I feel like this is the kind of episode that would get better upon rewatching. I did enjoy that protest in the study room, and a couple other jokes in the episode.
Personally, I think that the season has been getting better with each episode (I seem to be in the minority who enjoyed last week's episode), and this episode had me feeling good regardless. I think the new writers have kind of found a comfort zone at this point so I think we can expect good things for the remainder of the season.
I really liked this bit:
These people were probably going to jump ship regardless of the quality of the episodes. If an episode like the season 4 premiere aired during Season 2, no one would have really given a shit, but now that they're is being overcritical due to the new writers, any slip-up results in "this show sucks, bring back Dan Harmon." Fucking pathetic.
Jest Chillin
Member
Okay, I've been watching this show since it began but this season feels... off. There's just something about that doesn't feel right. It's as if it lost its soul, its spontaneity and more importantly, its originality.
I know this may be hard to believe, but I think this show was better off when it was on its last legs. It gave the show a reason to push the boundaries of what the script was capable of, even when the show always seemed like it wouldn't live to see another day.
If anything, I can only conclude that Dan Harmon was this show and this show was Dan Harmon. Without him, I don't think we'll ever see episodes the likes of "Basic Rocket Science", "Advanced Dungeon & Dragons" or the critically-acclaimed "Remedial Chaos Theory".
I know this may be hard to believe, but I think this show was better off when it was on its last legs. It gave the show a reason to push the boundaries of what the script was capable of, even when the show always seemed like it wouldn't live to see another day.
If anything, I can only conclude that Dan Harmon was this show and this show was Dan Harmon. Without him, I don't think we'll ever see episodes the likes of "Basic Rocket Science", "Advanced Dungeon & Dragons" or the critically-acclaimed "Remedial Chaos Theory".
Incendiary
Banned
I think this episode was great. Loved the callbacks. Liked the subtle "Hogan's Villains" remark. Also Abed actually felt a little more like Abed than usual.
Maybe the new management/production/writers do better in grounded (ish) stories around Greendale. It's entirely possible the more out there episodes are a by-product of Harmon's talent that are hard to live up to.
Maybe the new management/production/writers do better in grounded (ish) stories around Greendale. It's entirely possible the more out there episodes are a by-product of Harmon's talent that are hard to live up to.
Manmademan
Member
yeah ok. how about all of the OTHER episodes that aired besides those three over three seasons?
the show had a LOT of really uneven episodes, harmon or no- and that's not even going into the massive screwup with chang's character after season 1.
The season doesn't have any of the breakout episodes like paintball or remedial chaos yet, but we're only 4 episodes in, running on a far more limited budget. Give the season a shot before the wailing and gnashing of teeth and complaints about "loss of soul."
tonight's episode was better than a LOT of the forgettable episodes from 1-3. it was good, but not great.
If this episode is any indication, grounding the episodes in Greendale works in the shows favour.
I think you misunderstood me. I think this episode worked better in its current place (episode 4) than it likely would have as episode2. It brought the focus back to Greendale and their classes after back-to-back episodes away. It also leaves some threads to build on later that the episode 2 and 3 never touched on for one reason or another.Joe Lee said:
Great episode, only continuity issue would be the fact that Chang has had only 90 something hours of memory, but that itself isn't really all that bad of a continuity issue and can be explained away quite easily. Laughed at a lot of lines at this, and really want someone to gif the chairs collapsing one by one lol
I love Greendale and the environment so much that if there is a new season that doesn't take place in Greendale, I'll be amiss. (though I guess I probably don't have to worry about that
)
I love Greendale and the environment so much that if there is a new season that doesn't take place in Greendale, I'll be amiss. (though I guess I probably don't have to worry about that
)AlphaTwo00
Member
Wasn't home. Just got around to the DVR. Loved this one way more than the other three. Chang's intro actually works ok too for now.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Looks like I was right. Next week is
I mean Changnesia.
Thanksgiving. And the week after that is gonna be another Abed documentary episode where the group tries to figure out why Chang has amnesia..
ginger ninja
Banned
hope this episode is bad, last one was so bad...they are gonna run abed's character into the ground...i remember the days when he was mostly a movie geek but now he seems self obsessed
Thug Waffle
Member
Do we still assume anyone who says the show has dipped in quality and attributes it to Harmon's absence is stupid?
Because they're not. And the show is worse because he is gone. So much worse that I don't think it's unreasonable for people to stop watching. I still tune in, but I'm optimistic. Other people aren't, and the way this season has began gives them good reason to bounce. If the show is less funny (I think it is, I don't know how anyone but a young naive kid could think otherwise) then they could stick around to find out what happens to the characters. I'm part of this school, plus it still makes me laugh a little bit. However, many people watched the show for its witty humor and not necessarily for the characters. Much of the wit is gone and the characters have been a bit distorted in NBC's move to make the show more mainstream. I don't blame those people for leaving, either.
Because they're not. And the show is worse because he is gone. So much worse that I don't think it's unreasonable for people to stop watching. I still tune in, but I'm optimistic. Other people aren't, and the way this season has began gives them good reason to bounce. If the show is less funny (I think it is, I don't know how anyone but a young naive kid could think otherwise) then they could stick around to find out what happens to the characters. I'm part of this school, plus it still makes me laugh a little bit. However, many people watched the show for its witty humor and not necessarily for the characters. Much of the wit is gone and the characters have been a bit distorted in NBC's move to make the show more mainstream. I don't blame those people for leaving, either.
AlphaTwo00
Member
Those callback scenes, 2010 specifically. Anyone want to freezeframe it and see if hey did nail the entire set properly (I'm assuming NO ONE thought that far ahead and the actually reshot that one to recreate it)
Baconsammy
Banned
Show definitely has changed. Tonight's was definitely better than any of the other prior eps for me. Really disappointed that they couldn't get Nick Krol to reprise his role as the lead German.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think it's worse. Still watchable and still gets a laugh here and there but it doesn't have the it factor no mo'.
Fixed.
Tonight felt more like 'Community'. I never expected this season to be as good as the first three, but tonight was better than last week. Way too much dumb Troy, though. And the German characters were horrible. And loads of other problems.
Thug Waffle
Member
Not so good. Jeff could have just gone to the Dean and asked him to kick the Germans out or give them the sign in sheet in advance. Lots of flat jokes. Too bad, I thought this would be fun.
Jest Chillin
Member
Nope. The Dean may love the group but he can't ever overtly help them like that. He's mostly a figure head. That was shown all last season. You know.. the last season Harmon had a hand in.
Thug Waffle
Member
Yes, he can. He's the Dean.
Jest Chillin
Member
Like he can prevent Chang from being a Student?
Thug Waffle
Member
The School Board overrode him. The School Board wouldn't give a shit about the study room. Are you intentionally ignoring all the times the Dean has demonstrated his authority throughout almost 3.5 seasons? Or did you just start watching the show?
I don't agree with that. I can't think of a single episode in the first three seasons that didn't make me laugh at least once or twice. Tonight was... rough, in both basic plot structure (what was up with the lazy resolution of the study room plot? they painted the other room and that was it?) and humor (the Chang/Dean side story barely even attempted jokes). Todd VanDerWerff's take on it seems pretty spot on.
We're four episodes in and I'm still giving the show a chance, but I will probably just have to accept that it isn't for me anymore and move on before too long.
SilentSoldier
Member
I liked last weeks episode more than this one. Although I still have this feeling that people might be overly critical of the show. The previous seasons weren't all chock full of winners either. I doubt we'll get an episode as great as Documentary Film Making though, that episode was a masterpiece.
Jest Chillin
Member
The Dean has never overtly abused his power. He's given the group heads up on things and tried to stealthily sway things in their favor but blatantly banning the Germans from the study room or removing the sign up sheet would be too obvious. As the storyline went the Student Body was pissed that the group used actual rules to get rid of them. How do you think they would've reacted if the Dean abused his power without even a guise?
You're just dead set on disliking this episode and are determined to try to find a reason why it factually doesn't work. Sorry but just going to the Dean doesn't work.
Thug Waffle
Member
Having students compete for balls to earn spots in a class isn't an abuse of power... gotcha. He can force kids to do that but he can't kick the Germans out of the study room or give the group the sign-in sheet in advance... gotcha. And I didn't say get rid of the sign in sheet. Read.
It's a simple solution to a stupid problem that the entire episode is based on. I'm "dead set" on disliking the episode because I watched it, didn't laugh, and didn't think the story contributed anything to the growth of any of the characters. If the episode's central conflict is this basic and that easy to work around, it's not a strong enough conflict. We've seen the group get reality checked by the student body before and those instances were far more powerful than what we saw tonight.
Let me assume something about you, now: Your loyalty to this show is clouding your judgment. One page back you said last week's episode was full of quality and that the return of the podcast was "triumphant." Because of this, I think you are a poor judge of quality as far as this show is concerned.
Sorry, but just going to the Dean does work. And it would've saved us from the rest of this crappy episode. The student rebellion could have taken up more screen time and encouraged a more thought-out resolution than the use of a lazy clean-up montage to right the group's wrongs.
I think they just added the image of the blinds over existing footage from the original episode. You never actually hear any dialog from the cast themselves.
Definitely interested in episode 6 (which is either 408, 412 or 413). More ambitious episodes are sometimes filmed later for more time in pre-production and then aired in the correct order. Or it could just be a case of being a really great episode and the network wants to air it early.
I liked this weeks. Still something off about Troy in general though. It's like he's more mature but trying not to be. Don Glover looks physically older and I think it's contributing to that.
German accent related humour always makes me smile. My family herritage is German so the accent abuse is amazing.
German accent related humour always makes me smile. My family herritage is German so the accent abuse is amazing.
Jest Chillin
Member
You're getting increasingly hostile, so this will be my last response on the topic. The Hunger Deans was an event that every student had an equal chance to win. As were the Paintball Tourneys and the numerous other events the Dean has planned. Your gripe about my wording is uncalled for because it equates to the same thing. The Dean would've needed to remove the sign in sheet from whatever office it's located in to give to the Study Group regardless.
The majority of the show's entire run has episodes based around stupid concepts that could easily be solved. They aren't because that's not how the show is written. You're trying to bring outside logic into a show that doesn't use it. It has it's own internal logic and if you don't like that internal logic or can't accept it, then I'm not sure why you'd be watching. Comedies don't need to have constant character progression so that really shouldn't be an issue. If a Character reverted with no logical reason, then you'd have a complaint (and many had that very complaint in the early eps this season) but that's not what happened here.
And yes, I felt this weeks episode had a lot of quality and I said the return of Daylight was triumphant. You can think whatever you like about my taste in that regard but reading the replies in this thread there are others that agree that this was a good episode just as there are those that agree with your stance that it wasn't. Pretty standard for opinions and extremely standard for the opinions of Community fans in general.
I go into every episode completely open to what I'm seeing. And what I've seen has been a steady progression from pretty bad to good as they've aired.
Thug Waffle
Member
Not everybody had an equal chance to win. They were competing in arbitrarily physical and intellectual competitions. That does not promote equal opportunity. Neither did the paintball tournaments.
Your wording and my proposition are not the same thing. The point you're making in this quoted post is not what you meant in the post before it, and if it is, you need to learn to be more clear/choose better words.
The earlier episodes are better because their stupid conflicts are justified by good characterization and funny jokes (and many more of them, at that). They are better written. The thing that set Community apart from other sitcoms was the group and the conflicting personalities it's comprised of (aka: the characters). The show is a surrealist character study.
Reading the other replies in this thread, there are people who agree (know) that this show has dipped in quality considerably. I don't see how pointing out that people agree with you and people agree with me does anything but state the obvious.
I wouldn't call my attitude hostile. More so condescending, because after reading your posts in this thread I do not really respect your opinion as much as some of the other posters because I think you're too forgiving. And your avatar demonstrates, at the very least, a bit of bias. I swore by this show throughout the first two seasons and the majority of the third. It used to be the funniest show on television, I thought. Now, it's not even the funniest show on its own network.
I go into every episode of everything I watch with an open mind. I wouldn't watch the show begrudgingly. I would be lying to myself and others, however, if I said that any of this season's episodes were as good as any from the first three seasons. I think it's pretty funny to go back and compare this OT to the Season 2/3 OT's to see how much greater of a good/bad disparity exists between its fans now.
The bit in the crappy study room where everyone's chairs started breaking one by one and it cuts to Abed and he looks up and closes his eyes as his chair breaks is easily the hardest I've laughed all season.
As I suspected, having an episode set on campus was like a breath of fresh air, I really feel like NBC shouldn't have messed with the running order so much.. Also some progress with Chang was long overdue so I was happy to see that as well. Aaand getting to reset his character is a-okay in my book so I'm intrigued to see where they will take it. Good episode
I feel you. It was nice to be back at Greendale for more than a few moments.
The bit in the crappy study room where everyone's chairs started breaking one by one and it cuts to Abed and he looks up and closes his eyes as his chair breaks is easily the hardest I've laughed all season.
As I suspected, having an episode set on campus was like a breath of fresh air, I really feel like NBC shouldn't have messed with the running order so much.. Also some progress with Chang was long overdue so I was happy to see that as well. Aaand getting to reset his character is a-okay in my book so I'm intrigued to see where they will take it. Good episode
As I suspected, having an episode set on campus was like a breath of fresh air, I really feel like NBC shouldn't have messed with the running order so much.. Also some progress with Chang was long overdue so I was happy to see that as well. Aaand getting to reset his character is a-okay in my book so I'm intrigued to see where they will take it. Good episode
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Any gifs of Annie in her Oktoberfest outfit?
Still want a GIF of this.
I think the missing ingredient this season, for me at least, is that there's no sense that there's a reality being bent anymore. I'm not watching some weird bermuda triangle school anymore, I'm just watching a show set in an alternate universe where this shit happens. It's a fine line, which is why I think people have difficulty articulating it, but... I dunno, the zookeepers joined the zoo and it's kind of boring now.
Edited to add: I can't think of anyone on this show who acts as straight-man/outsider anymore. It has, in the past, been Britta (though only early on), Jeff (much of the time, but now he's self-labelled New Jeff), or Abed (who seemed aware of the television nature of his reality). None of them fill those roles anymore.
Edited to add: I can't think of anyone on this show who acts as straight-man/outsider anymore. It has, in the past, been Britta (though only early on), Jeff (much of the time, but now he's self-labelled New Jeff), or Abed (who seemed aware of the television nature of his reality). None of them fill those roles anymore.
I've been complaining about that since last season. If everything is ridiculous, then by comparison nothing really is.
The bit in the crappy study room where everyone's chairs started breaking one by one and it cuts to Abed and he looks up and closes his eyes as his chair breaks is easily the hardest I've laughed all season.
As I suspected, having an episode set on campus was like a breath of fresh air, I really feel like NBC shouldn't have messed with the running order so much.. Also some progress with Chang was long overdue so I was happy to see that as well. Aaand getting to reset his character is a-okay in my book so I'm intrigued to see where they will take it. Good episode
My guess
He's a sleeper for Spreck and City College
Manchurian Candidate
I do agree the show was already kind of heading that way, but there was still a duality to it last season. There'd be the crazy shit episodes and then there'd be the episodes where the crazy shit just poked in, mostly as an accumulation of past crazy shit (Annie's Boobs, etc) that punctuated it.
This season has completely lacked down-to-earth moments. I think the only one, really, is Annie and Jeff on the couch outside the convention.
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