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Confirmed: The Nintendo Switch is powered by an Nvidia Tegra X1
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Skittzo0413
Member
For some reason that link with the larger image isn't working for me...
Anyway, yeah it certainly looks identical. It's very strange that these TX1s appear to be fabbed as late as October then, since stock TX1s should have been available for this for a while. I'm also not sure how Nintendo and Nvidia can call this a custom chip when the software is what's being customized presumably, but I guess I'll chalk that up to marketing speak.
Overall it's a bit disappointing that there is no custom memory solution. Everything else is essentially what I've been expecting for a while, but it would be a shame if they run into big bandwidth bottlenecks here when it could have been much better had they waited for a Pascal chip to be ready. I guess we'll see how effective TBR can be in multiplats.
DrROBschiz
Member
It does get noticably warm
I hope efficiency updates are at the top of their priority lists
I hope efficiency updates are at the top of their priority lists
Yes it,s TX1 like the one in Shield TV 2017 100%, the only question is if there has been some minor updates in the SoC from the Shield TV 2015 SoC, Antutu benchmark is a little higher on Shield 2017 but CPU and GPU scores are a bit lower (I'm guessing they lowered clocks to better fit thermals) but UX scores almost doubled, but I dont really know what could made that change.
I,ll try to update with youtube links later.
Funny how some people jumped at my posts pointing towards something at the very least really close to TX1,yet here we are.
PD.- On the plus side we now know that Switch SoC retains its video decoding hardware, so once streaming services are avaible itcould probably support up to basic 4k 30 fps streaming.
Just like The Last Of Us on the PS3 and last gen GTAV barring the low res textures for the most part.
On topic I don't mind them using a Tegra X1, I just hope this means the production price for it falls soon enough for them to down the price to 250 or even 200 down the line.
franklyshankly
Member
Is there any source on how much it throttles? A quick google from shows this from Anand:
"the SHIELD Android TV has no throttling or power constraints"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9289/the-nvidia-shield-android-tv-review/3
And Ars Technica:
"Performance is helped by the fact that in the Shield the X1 isn't constrained by battery or the poor thermal dissipation of a smaller chassis, allowing it to run at full speed for longer without throttling."
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...-a-powerful-do-it-all-box-that-lacks-content/
Don't see anything indicating throttling, but again this is a quick search. I'd like to know what the worst case clock speeds are for the Shield TV for comparison.
MDave did some tests in a past thread with his own hardware.
Skittzo0413
Member
Interesting, so the comparison image is from a 2017 TX1 rather than a 2015 one? It would be interesting to find a 2015 TX1 to compare it with too. This would explain why these were fabbed so recently though.
And again, most people were expecting something similar to a TX1 but customized, yet having a completely stock chip was a pretty unlikely scenario when considering Nintendo's/gaming consoles' history, and considering Nintendo and Nvidia flat out confirmed it was customized.
It's measured by Digital Foundry:
DF said:
As I said, it's acceptable as long as it doesn't burn the skin, but it doesn't leave any room for higher clocks.
Gotdatmoney
Member
We had a gaffer (MDave) with a shield test his own game on it. It throttles amd relatively quickly and levels out at exactly the switches GPU clocks. Someone will provide the link to that portion of the thread.
It's why I pretty much don't trust these throttle bench marks websites do.
DrROBschiz
Member
Hmmm so we are already seeing peak performance with BoTW though they can always make efficiency and optimization considerations in future titles
Im excited. Should be a good Nintendo generation but I do hope they consider iterative upgrades in the next few years
franklyshankly
Member
Yeah I think I found that thread. This post is interesting:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=227911450&postcount=8870
Looks like the Shield doesn't throttle at 1 GHz CPU and 1 GHz GPU. So that would be CPU at the same speed as Switch and GPU substantially faster than docked mode.
The 2015 Shield TV is also bigger (so more potential room for cooling) and doesn't get as hot as Switch. So that might explain the gap in the GPU.
Gotdatmoney
Member
It's a port of a WiiU game. This is by no means peak performance. Well no more than any system launch games by that standard anyway.
Could Nintendo release a dock that has an extra fan (or other cooling element) that can help with the heat the Switch generates while docked? I'm wondering if this could be the "enhanced" dock people are theorizing about and maybe it could let Nintendo up to clocks without having to worry about the Switch burning out (or having to add any additional hardware to push out better graphics in the dock).
And while i'm talking about docks, would it be possible for maybe even a third party to release one that does the same thing as I mentioned? Or even one with a hard drive?
And while i'm talking about docks, would it be possible for maybe even a third party to release one that does the same thing as I mentioned? Or even one with a hard drive?
Is that picture from the Shield TV 2017?
tkscz
Member
Disappointing but not the worst thing. Honestly not nearly as bad as when we found out the Wii U's graphic chip was closer to a HD Radeon 4550 than a 4870. At least it's using second generation Maxwell and still has fp16, tile based rendering, and texture compression. So we can get some nice stuff out of it.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Yeah basically. Shield is bigger than the Switch so I imagine the cooling solution is better. You also don't have to pick it up so even if it was hotter (according to KingSnake it isn't though and I believe him) it prob would not matter.
Skittzo0413
Member
I asked that in the other thread but didn't get an answer. That's what Mokujin said in the post I quoted.
It would be nice to get confirmation on that from Fritzchens Fritz.
TX1 relies heavily on efficient fp16 usage and tile based rendering to have optimal performance, none of which are features the Wii U has. Botw may brute force as much performance as it can out of the Switch, but its probably nowhere near as well optimised as future games will be.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Since there is nothing exotic or archaic about the hardware they are in a good place for regular price drops as well as revisions or different form factors (which Iwata himself hinted at)
My guess is;
Some time in 2018 - Drop to $249
Early in 2019 - Switch "Go", a smaller (4.8 - 5 inch screen), cheaper ( $179-199), handheld focused Switch with controls built in. Switch controllers would still compatible and a dock that fits its size would be sold separately.
Second half of 2020 - Switch price drop to $199, Switch Go price drop to $149.
Some time in 2021 or 2022 - Switch equivalent to the new 3DS that has a 1080p screen and runs games in docked mode while undocked. $249.
I don't know what point you are trying to make, but you aren't succeeding at it because you are basing it on a lie.
DrROBschiz
Member
Im excited for the future!
Lets hope people still love this thing 6 months from now
I know I love it but I also still love my Vita
Since its running a stock TX1 now, maybe it won't be complicated to put a stock TX2 in there as soon as they can get a good deal from Nvidia.
Hmmm I swear that I saw that it was 2017 one on Fritz album, but can't find it right now so disregard my comment for the time being.
PD.- Looking at the chip board on Fritz page clearly shows an A1 Tegra X1, so that's the 2015 one, disregard completely my previous post then.
Tegra X1-A1
ArchedThunder
Banned
I'm guessing the smaller Switch would probably be the X1 on a smaller node and the "new" Switch would be an X2.
I hope I'm right, because that would be a pretty good upgrade path and it's not too different from the path the 3DS saw.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Eh, the good news at least is we'll be able to get a liter device with better battery life faster.
Calm Mind
Member
They made Super Mario 3D World, Xenoblade X, Breath of the Wild all on Wii U hardware. I'm pretty sure they can put the Switch through it's paces.
Are we certain that's not already the case?
Calm Mind
Member
mario_O
Member
No, it only uses the 4 A57, 3 for games and 1 for OS.
Those kind of changes would almost certainly have been visible on the die picture.
Skittzo0413
Member
Ah okay, thanks for the update. Also appears to be a 2015 chip in that photo which obviously rules out the 2017 revision.
I asked this before but apparently there would be significant rewiring in order to make that possible, which we apparently don't see in the photo. The A53s could probably be used for video streaming apps or similar OS functions but can't be used at the same time as the A57s, during gaming.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Nvidia's mention of "500 man years" actually made mention of pretty much everything BUT hardware, so the "custom" nature they mentioned is almost definitely on the software side.
Possible, but highly unlikely from what I gather, but I'm not very knowledgeable on big.LITTLE.
Nvidia kinda did...
.
I actually would like to see Nintendo tap into grid for their subscription service. Just get all the ports that Nvidia has already done the leg work on.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Six month from now people have probably games like Mario Kart Deluxe, Splatoon2, Skyrim, Arms, Zelda DLC and Fire Emblem Warriors to play and already preordered Mario Odyssey and are all very happy
ArchedThunder
Banned
It'll make things easier and when emulation is out there the system requirements probably won't be too ridiculous, but the API and OS could always end up being issues, but we don't know enough about them to say, at least as far as I know.
Vulkan based emulator should do some of the work for emulation, it's a bit early though. I mean PS4 is off the shelf too and you don't see emulators sitting around for it yet, so there is more work to be done than just knowing the basic hardware set up.
Thanks guys, I'm excited about this.
The Switch games deserve to run on a better piece of hardware.
DrROBschiz
Member
Six month from now people have probably games like Mario Kart Deluxe, Splatoon2, Skyrim, Arms, Zelda DLC and Fire Emblem Warriors to play and already preordered Mario Odyssey and are all very happy
Yup Im optimistic about switch as its own thing
I have PS4 for everything else but i forsee the majority of my gametime on Switch much like I did with the Vita
Nintendo games aren't on PC, so there is always a big draw to bringing those games over in the form of emulation, which is the main reason 360 only recently became emulated vs Wii. However I'd still suggest you are 3 years before some form of commercial emulation is possible, based on Wii U emulation and how much was known about that hardware.
As for your comment about switch games and better hardware, I'm sure iterations for Switch will happen. The foxconn leak also seemed to have the SCD in it, which could push PS4-Pro to Scorpio levels of performance if it is indeed a GTX 1060.
Jose92
[Membe
Ps4 uses a customised APU with custom busses, and have an encryption layer running on a secondary chip. It is as hard to emulate as the ps3.
However the switch is using off the shelf tegra X1, which have been out for at least 2 years now.
PS3 has an emulator now... Also no way is any AMD X86 processor from the past 10 years as difficult to emulate on X86 hardware as Cell. Also X1 launched May 2015, so almost 2 years.
Apparition
Member
Well then, it would be a shame if we didn't get The Tomb Raider reboot since it is already running on the Shield TV.
Jose92
[Membe
That is my point it took them ten years to get a ps3 emulator up and running. emulation is not only tied to what is the architecture of the cpu/apu/soc but tied to the way the system handles different calls. Watch this video about hacking the ps4 and see the some of the funny and quirky customisation sony have done to the system https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AoHGJ1g9aM
BrownWalrus
Member
Wait so this thing is... weaker than a shield?
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