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[CHEEZMO™]

See my edit above? I see the VP isn't saying anything of that nature, but the rest is just fabricated I guess?

In 2005 Khamenei responded to President Ahmadinejad's alleged remark that Israel should be "wiped off the map" by saying that "the Islamic Republic has never threatened and will never threaten any country."

Under reformist Iranian President Mohammad Khatami, elected in 1997, some believed Iran–Israel relations would improve. Khatami called Israel an "illegal state" and a "parasite," but also said in 1999 Jews would be "safe in Iran" and all religious minorities would be protected. A report indicates that Iran tried in 2003 to initiate a rapprochement with Israel by recognizing its existence in a proposal to the United States. The report claims that Iran's peace proposal with Israel was not accepted by the United States.

the Jews, Christians and Muslims (&#8230 if they come with the Palestinians, homeless Palestinians, to come and through following the democratic process will decide on a government and live in peace (&#8230 Iran will support because we (&#8230 support peaceful settlement of the whole issue and peaceful coexistence of these divine religions in the Middle East. Let's hope for the peace.”

Blitzer: “But should there be a state of Israel?”

Soltanieh: “I think I’ve already answered to you. If Israel is a synonym and will give the indication of Zionism mentality, no. But if you are going to conclude that we have said the people there have to be removed or we [said] they have to be massacred or so, this is fabricated, unfortunate selective approach to what the mentality and policy of Islamic Republic of Iran is.

"No nation in the world is our enemy, Iran is a friend of the nation in the United States and in Israel, and this is an honor. We view the American nation as one with the greatest nations of the world." He also added that Iran "wants no war with any country," insisting that Iran's actions during the Iran–Iraq War were purely defensive.

Doesn't sound too bad to me.

Did you actually read all this before copying and pasting it from Wikipedia?

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Hey Para, I'd really appreciate it if you could address my post. Thanks.

Mind if I?

Iran says they don't want to develop nuclear weapons. American intelligence agencies say they do not believe Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons and that there is no evidence for their development. Israeli officials have come out to say the same.

This is categorically false. The IAEA have long since provided evidence that Iran is pursuing the development of nuclear weapons. This has resulted in UN censuring (and that was last year).

Every day new evidence is revealed linking Iran to nuclear weapons development. Most recently, it emerged that Iran has been concealing evidence of development at Parchin by razing buildings.

Somewhat related, but President Afterdinnerjacket came out yesterday stating if the West intervened in Syria's genocide against it's own people then "Israel would burn". Nice fellow. (awesome picture too)

Are you saying Iran wants to exterminate the Jewish people?

Iran wants to destroy Zionists in Israel and also the US. So they don't want to destroy "the" Jewish people, but it does want to destroy Jews and others. Doesn't sound much better to me.

 

[grimshawish]

On topic. Stupid. Really fucking idiotic. Likely thought up by the slightly bonkers relationship between Israel/US (the 'two nodding dogs' approach) at times.

Using these things to gather info is one thing, using them as pretty uncontrolled sabotage is another.
Mind you it has had the sort of affect they wanted in slowing down Iranian development of Nuclear Plants.

Am not sure however how that stops them turning to Nuclear Weapons instead. If anything it does the opposite of deterring that path.
So silly.


I'm not a fan of any kind of electronic warfare anyway. In a war? Sure, but during peace time I think its too easy for some states to do that they forget another country will see it as a real act of war. Not to mention it pushes them to develop their own tech and it civilian/business/infrastructure will quickly become targets.

 

[theignoramus]

The average citizen might but it's hard to say that the government hasn't expressed interest in doing so.

Lots of hostile stuff about not liking Israel, Zionism and wanting to see it collapse. None about a desire or intent to see an ethnic group exterminated. Israel and its supporters (like Wolf Blitzer, who was an AIPAC lobbyist) seem to want Iran to say that though.

 

[demolitio]

Doesn't sound too bad to me.

Did you actually read all this before copying and pasting it from Wikipedia?

No, I personally make a habit of not reading things in a discussion... :/

Yes, I did. Did you since we apparently now doubt people's reading skills instead of actually discussing the topic?

Wipe them off the map of the world; collision course with Israel; "World without Zionism"; illegal state and a parasite...If that isn't too bad, then you must have been really calm during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The issue prompted Iran's Supreme Leader Khamenei to "spell an end to the debates" on Israel. During a Friday sermon in Tehran, he stated, "It is incorrect, irrational, pointless and nonsense to say that we are friends of Israeli people... we are on a collision course with the occupiers of Palestine and the occupiers are the Zionist regime. This is the position of our regime, our revolution and our people

Iranian Funding of Hamas and Hezbollah
A mural in Tehran, Iran. The mural depicts the emblem of Lebanon's Hezbollah, and quotes the founder of The Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini, saying: "Israel must be destroyed"

Iran supplies political support and weapons to Hamas,[44] an organization committed to the destruction of Israel by Jihad[45] According to Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian National Authority, "Hamas is funded by Iran. It claims it is financed by donations, but the donations are nothing like what it receives from Iran."[46][47]

Iran has also supplied another enemy of Israel, the militant organization Hezbollah with substantial amounts of financial, training, weapons, explosives, political, diplomatic, and organizational aid while persuading Hezbollah to take an action against Israel.[48][49][50] Hezbollah's 1985 manifesto listed its four main goals as "Israel's final departure from Lebanon as a prelude to its final obliteration"[51] According to reports released in February 2010, Hezbollah received $400 million dollars from Iran.[49]
Iranian nuclear program

Iran threatening Israel

The nuclear program of Iran with its potential to develop nuclear weapons, together with the anti-Israel rhetoric of the President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and his desire for "the regime occupying Jerusalem" to "vanish from the pages of time", has led many Israelis to fear an eventual attack from Iran.[52][53] Notably, in the same speech he compared Israel "vanishing from the pages of time" with the same having happened to the Soviet Union, suggesting these statements were referring to hope for changes from the inside rather than any changes caused by Iran. Nevertheless, in a May 2012 speech to a defense gathering in Tehran, Iran's Military Chief of Staff declared: “The Iranian nation is standing for its cause and that is the full annihilation of Israel”. [54]

And then the opposite side:

Israel threatening Iran

In November 2003 a Scottish newspaper claimed that Israel "warned that it is prepared to take unilateral military action against Iran if the international community fails to stop any development of nuclear weapons at the country's atomic energy facilities".[55] It cited Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz stating, "under no circumstances would Israel be able to tolerate nuclear weapons in Iranian possession". In December 2005, a British newspaper claimed that the Israeli military had been ordered by then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to plan for possible strikes on uranium enrichment sites in Iran in March 2006, based on Israeli intelligence estimates that Iran would be able to build nuclear weapons in two to four years. It was claimed that the special forces command was in the highest stage of readiness for an attack (state G) in December of the following year. Ariel Sharon reportedly said, "Israel - and not only Israel - cannot accept a nuclear Iran. We have the ability to deal with this and we're making all the necessary preparations to be ready for such a situation."[56] Israeli military Chief of Staff, Dan Halutz, was quoted as responding to the question of how far Israel was ready to go to stop Iran's nuclear energy program with the statement "Two thousand kilometers".[57]Seymour Hersh says U.S. Department of Defense civilians led by Douglas Feith have been working with Israeli planners and consultants to develop and refine potential nuclear, chemical-weapons, and missile targets inside Iran.[58]

On 8 May 2006, Israeli Vice Premier Shimon Peres said in an interview with Reuters that "the president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map," Army Radio reported.[59] Peres, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, drew unusually stiff criticism from an analyst on Israel's state television, Yoav Limor, for talking of destroying another country.[60]

In May 2006, IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz stated that Iran’s nuclear facilities can be destroyed, hinting at a possible plan to do just that.[61]

Shabtai Shavit, a former chief of the Mossad, said Iranian atomic facilities could be destroyed within a year, but has not ruled out going that direction. Isaac Ben-Israel, a former general of the Israeli Air Force, said an attack could be carried out at any time but only as a last resort.[62] Iran's Shahab-3 missile exercises were conducted in early July demonstrating that Israel was within reach.

According to the New York Times, Israel sought help from the United States for a military attack against Iran.[63] Israel reportedly asked for bunker-busting bombs for an attack on Iran's main nuclear complex and for permission to fly over Iraq to reach Iran's major nuclear complex at Natanz. The Bush administration rejected the requests. According to the article, White House officials never conclusively determined whether Israel had decided to go ahead with the strike before the United States protested, or whether Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel was trying to goad the White House into more decisive action before President Bush left office.[63]

On 27 July 2009, Israel’s Defence Minister Ehud Barak during a press conference with Robert Gates, the US Defense Secretary, in Jerusalem, warned Iran that a military strike on its nuclear facilities was still an option: "We clearly believe that no option should be removed from the table. This is our policy; we mean it. We recommend to others to take the same position, but we cannot dictate it to anyone."[64] The same day, Israel's Ambassador to US, Gabriela Shalev, during a special UN Security Council session held to discuss the situation in the Middle East, called Iran the "biggest supporter of terrorism. The Islamic Republic's nuclear program and its support of terrorism pose a threat to the entire Middle East."[65]

Recently retired Mossad chief Meir Dagan has called a possible Israeli strike against Iranian nuclear facilities "the stupidest thing I have ever heard". A comment supported by two other former Mossad chiefs, but condemned by members of the current cabinet.[66]

Lots of hostile stuff about not liking Israel, Zionism and wanting to see it collapse. None about a desire or intent to see an ethnic group exterminated. Israel and its supporters (like Wolf Blitzer, who was an AIPAC lobbyist) seem to want Iran to say that though.

So they want Israel to collapse through magical diplomacy and then have its citizens move to different countries? If someone wanted to wipe the U.S. off the map, one would assume that would include the people there because it's not like anyone is going to hand everything over...IF they said the Israeli government, it'd make much more sense, but to wipe a whole country off the map doesn't sound too peaceful of a solution to me?

 

[M.D]

Doesn't sound too bad to me.

Did you actually read all this before copying and pasting it from Wikipedia?

Iran: Military intervention in Syria will 'engulf' Israel

Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani says 'ash rising from flames' of crisis caused by any military campaign against Assad 'would definitely envelop Zionist regime'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4236380,00.html

Iran, the peaceful nation that arms and finances Hamas, Hezbollah and other lovely, peace loving groups terrorist groups.

 

[theignoramus]

..IF they said the Israeli government, it'd make much more sense, but to wipe a whole country off the map doesn't sound too peaceful of a solution to me?

Iran demands the return of all Palestinian refugees to Israel and a one state solution. That's what they mean when they talk about Israel ceasing to exit. It's not about turning Israel into an inferno, it's about destroying it demographically.

 

[Derrick01]

America is allowed to build weapons of mass destruction and bomb the shit out of other countries, but if Iran is developing nuclear material, HOW DARE THEM.

You sound like an expert in foreign policy.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

This is categorically false.

Israel's military chief said in an interview published Wednesday that Iran will ultimately decide against building a nuclear weapon — putting him at odds with Israel's more pessimistic prime minister.

Maj.-Gen. Benny Gantz told the Haaretz daily that he believes that diplomatic pressure and economic sanctions, along with Israel's determination to strike if necessary, will deter Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons.

“I don't think (Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei) will want to go the extra mile,” he said. “I think the Iranian leadership is composed of very rational people.”

The most recent report, which represents the consensus of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, indicates that Iran is pursuing research that could put it in a position to build a weapon, but that it has not sought to do so.

Although Iran continues to enrich uranium at low levels, U.S. officials say they have not seen evidence that has caused them to significantly revise that judgment. Senior U.S. officials say Israel does not dispute the basic intelligence or analysis.

...

Clapper and CIA Director David H. Petraeus told a separate Senate hearing that Iran was enriching uranium below 20% purity. Uranium is considered weapons grade when it is enriched to about 90% purity, although it is still potentially usable at lower enrichment levels.

U.S. spy agencies also have not seen evidence of a decision-making structure on nuclear weapons around Khamenei, said David Albright, who heads the nonprofit Institute for Science and International Security and is an expert on Iran's nuclear program.

Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey was asked to clarify a comment he made about Iran's nuclear ambitions during his testimony before the Senate Armed Services committee.

In an interview with CNN's Fareed Zakaria earlier this month, Dempsey said the United States should view Iran as a "rational actor" despite Iran's belligerent actions and rhetoric surrounding their nuclear program and ambitions.

*shrug*

Iran wants to destroy Zionists in Israel and also the US. So they don't want to destroy "the" Jewish people, but it does want to destroy Jews and others. Doesn't sound much better to me.

Which Jews? Surely if they wanted to then they would start with those within their borders, no? Or at least make life harder for them.

And then the opposite side:

That's why I'm more fearful of Israel than Iran. Whereas Iran uses (admittedly shitty) rhetoric and nebulous references to conflict, Israel talks about actual military action - something they have a history of.

Spoiler

I didn't mean to be so dickish btw. My bad.

 

[The Albatross]

The amount of mental gymnastics it takes for people to be against a worm that bloodlessly destroys a nuclear power plant -- one that nearly every responsible power (edit: and diverse, independent voices; see NYT, NPR, WSJ, even prominent sources in ME journalism) in the Western World agrees is being used to contribute to a Nuclear weapons program -- is ridiculous.

I think that many people would rather see millions die of a Nuclear attack in the Middle East, than see the United States or Israel exercise any military exertion -- even one that is nearly entirely bloodless.

Also, just in case anybody is suggesting that the United States or Israel are the only two countries doing things like this, you are a fool. The US and Israel are playing catch-up to Russia and China, who aren't just attacking military-industrial installations, but attacking peaceful, private companies in order to steal trade secrets. There were a series of great stories about Chinese cyber attacks on NPR a few months ago:

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/10/152374358/cybersecurity-firms-ditch-defense-learn-to-hunt

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

*shrug*

Having total deja vu here and I don't know why.

Your sources all imply a nuclear weapon is either in development or could be in development, thusly reinforcing my point. Whether they will go the extra mile and actually make one is another issue, but then if Iran was willing to play ball with the international community it wouldn't be a problem

Spoiler

they aren't

Which Jews? Surely if they wanted to then they would start with those within their borders, no? Or at least make life harder for them.

Zionist Jews. Zionist Christians. Zionist Muslims (they do exist). Zionist Fish. Zionists. They want to kill Zionists. That just so happens to be a majority of the people in both the US and Israel, hence the antagonism towards these two nations from Iran.

 

[theignoramus]

what if Iran developed a virus to wreak havoc at Dimona? would that be fair game too? I mean, every "responsible Western government" and indeed, most governments on the planet know Israel has a thriving nuclear weapon program. And unlike Iran, Israel has made specific physical threats to carry out an air attack.

 

[captainnapalm]

The amount of mental gymnastics it takes for people to be against a worm that bloodlessly destroys a nuclear power plant -- one that nearly every responsible power (edit: and diverse, independent voices; see NYT, NPR, WSJ, even prominent sources in ME journalism) in the Western World agrees is being used to contribute to a Nuclear weapons program -- is ridiculous.

I think that many people would rather see millions die of a Nuclear attack in the Middle East, than see the United States or Israel exercise any military exertion -- even one that is nearly entirely bloodless.

Also, just in case anybody is suggesting that the United States or Israel are the only two countries doing things like this, you are a fool. The US and Israel are playing catch-up to Russia and China, who aren't just attacking military-industrial installations, but attacking peaceful, private companies in order to steal trade secrets. There were a series of great stories about Chinese cyber attacks on NPR a few months ago:

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/10/152374358/cybersecurity-firms-ditch-defense-learn-to-hunt

Israel has plenty of blood on its hands. The last time it rolled into Gaza it killed 900 people - men, women and children. That's just one occasion. There have been many, many more.

Yet Iran are the dangerous ones? It seems to me Iran have every rational reason to fear US and Israeli aggression and try and defend themselves with a nuclear program. A program that would obviously serve only as a deterrent, because they know full well how aggressive and amoral the US and Israel can be.

 

[jimi_dini]

Somewhat related, but President Afterdinnerjacket came out yesterday

Iran wants to destroy Zionists in Israel and also the US.

Wanna back that up?
Iran destroying the US? are you crazy? How would this even be possible?

And the name of the president of Iran is Mahmud Ahmadinedschad.

 

[nib95]

Mind if I?



This is categorically false. The IAEA have long since provided evidence that Iran is pursuing the development of nuclear weapons. This has resulted in UN censuring (and that was last year).

Every day new evidence is revealed linking Iran to nuclear weapons development. Most recently, it emerged that Iran has been

The IAEA? Really? This same IAEA?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...no-slam-dunk-commentary-by-robert-kelley.html

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/apr2010/bara-a03.shtml

Don't kid yourself. Then again it sounds like you've swallowed the propaganda up whole and are running with it. Iran wants to destroy Israel and the US lol.

I think it should be bannable for people to quote the "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map" quote when people have refuted it so many bloody times. It's crazy how effective misguiding propaganda is sometimes.

America doesn't call for the destruction of another country by its president

See. This shit right here should be bannable. The tag is fitting.

 

[Bollocks]

Good to know that one day USA will kill us all

 

[Tideas]

America is allowed to build weapons of mass destruction and bomb the shit out of other countries, but if Iran is developing nuclear material, HOW DARE THEM.

America doesn't call for the destruction of another country by its president

 

[numble]

The amount of mental gymnastics it takes for people to be against a worm that bloodlessly destroys a nuclear power plant -- one that nearly every responsible power (edit: and diverse, independent voices; see NYT, NPR, WSJ, even prominent sources in ME journalism) in the Western World agrees is being used to contribute to a Nuclear weapons program -- is ridiculous.

I think that many people would rather see millions die of a Nuclear attack in the Middle East, than see the United States or Israel exercise any military exertion -- even one that is nearly entirely bloodless.

Also, just in case anybody is suggesting that the United States or Israel are the only two countries doing things like this, you are a fool. The US and Israel are playing catch-up to Russia and China, who aren't just attacking military-industrial installations, but attacking peaceful, private companies in order to steal trade secrets. There were a series of great stories about Chinese cyber attacks on NPR a few months ago:

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/10/152374358/cybersecurity-firms-ditch-defense-learn-to-hunt

A virus that randomly turns things off in a nuclear power plant may not necessarily end up being bloodless.

 

[captainnapalm]

America doesn't call for the destruction of another country by its president

Yet is has effectively destroyed many countries.

That "wipe Israel off the map" line was some awesome propoganda, by the way. People parrot that line all the time, even on threads where it has been thoroughly debunked literally a page earlier.

 

[BruiserBear]

Yet is has effectively destroyed many countries.

That "wipe Israel off the map" line was some awesome propoganda, by the way. People parrot that line all the time, even on threads where it has been thoroughly debunked literally a page earlier.

"debunked"?

lol

 

[PdotMichael]

America doesn't call for the destruction of another country by its president

I remember Bush called the Iraq war a "crusade". I think the differences are sometomes very subtle.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

"debunked"?

lol

I remember when you came into a thread and parroted that line. I showed you why you were mistaken and you didn't post in the thread again. Or did you just forget?

 

[grimshawish]

Israel has plenty of blood on its hands. The last time it rolled into Gaza it killed 900 people - men, women and children. That's just one occasion. There have been many, many more.

Yet Iran are the dangerous ones? It seems to me Iran have every rational reason to fear US and Israeli aggression and try and defend themselves with a nuclear program. A program that would obviously serve only as a deterrent, because they know full well how aggressive and amoral the US and Israel can be.

A lot of it comes to US domestic politics and the insane view of some that Israel is always in the right. I think Iran worries more than an Israeli attack could lead to the US getting involved by defunct, despite no aggression directed by Iran at Israel.

I don't think Nuclear weapons are the answer (though Israel thought so) but the negotiations process seems to be having some affect now and theres an obvious effort from all sides to continue their obligations and not be unfriendly for the sake of it (pirating responses).

Generally there are bigger threats in the world atm than Iran - as well as in the long term. But its the Israel angle that makes it dangerous as theres a lot of people making assumptions and generally a lack of clarity over US policy to the response of an Israeli strike.

 

[el retorno]

Yet is has effectively destroyed many countries.

That "wipe Israel off the map" line was some awesome propoganda, by the way. People parrot that line all the time, even on threads where it has been thoroughly debunked literally a page earlier.

I'm sorry but this "mistranslation" bit has gone too far and it is always brought up as "propaganda". The statements general drift was that Israel shouldn't exist. Not a new government but that the Israeli country shouldn't exist. Thats what was said. OMG he didn't use the word map!

He stated Iran's objection to the state of Israel and the desire that it doesn't exists. There are problems with idioms in translation. It happens a lot but the general gist of the statement is exactly the same.

Also why don't you read what the Iranian's president's own website stated

http://web.archive.org/web/20110716100837/http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=10114

"O dear Imam (Khomeini)! You said the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map. I should say that your illuminating remark and cause is going to come true today. The Zionist Regime has

 

[BruiserBear]

I remember when you came into a thread and parroted that line. I showed you why you were mistaken and you didn't post in the thread again. Or did you just forget?

My lack of reply likely had nothing to do with anything you said. I don't always go back and check any thread I've replied in.


But please, show me why I'm mistaken once again. How does one "debunk" a quote?

 

[jorma]

I'm sorry but this "mistranslation" bit has gone too far and it is always brought up as "propaganda". The statements general drift was that Israel shouldn't exist. Not a new government but that the Israeli country shouldn't exist. Thats what was said. OMG he didn't use the word map!

He stated Iran's objection to the state of Israel and the desire that it doesn't exists. There are problems with idioms in translation. It happens a lot but the general gist of the statement is exactly the same.

The genereal gist of the statement was a one state solution. There was no indication that he wanted a genocide.

 

[el retorno]

The genereal gist of the statement was a one state solution.

"O dear Imam (Khomeini)! You said the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map. I should say that your illuminating remark and cause is going to come true today. The Zionist Regime has
lost its existence philosophy... the Zionist regime faces a complete deadend and under God's grace your wish will soon be materialized and the corrupt element will be wiped off the map," said President Ahmadinejad.

Put this in the statement don't see how it changes it.
"eliminated from the pages of history"

You said the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map.

You said the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be eliminated from the pages of history.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Wanna back that up?
Iran destroying the US? are you crazy? How would this even be possible?

I didn't say that at all. Learn to read.

And the name of the president of Iran is Mahmud Ahmadinedschad.

I know that. It's called a sense of humor.

The IAEA? Really? This same IAEA?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...no-slam-dunk-commentary-by-robert-kelley.html

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/apr2010/bara-a03.shtml

Don't kid yourself. Then again it sounds like you've swallowed the propaganda up whole and are running with it. Iran wants to destroy Israel and the US lol.

Who's kidding who? I linked to an IAEA findings report containing documenting several discoveries (in that small time they were actually allowed to investigate) including a "large explosive containment vessel" inside Parchin. The UN in light of this outright accused Iran of pursuing the development of nuclear weapons.

Iran have since disallowed the IAEA access to Parchin (and have been destroying evidence, as highlighted earlier), however images were released showing a high explosive test chamber.

The most recent IAEA report details that Iran continue to enrich uranium at an increasing rate and are well on the way to bomb level material.

I think it should be bannable for people to quote the "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map" quote when people have refuted it so many bloody times. It's crazy how effective misguiding propaganda is sometimes.

I think it should be bannable to back seat mod (irony)

The genereal gist of the statement was a one state solution. There was no indication that he wanted a genocide.

Never mind anything else he's said, this ideal isn't possible without Jews dying. There is a considerable demographic majority of Jews in the region and the state of Israel exists as a result. This is why he continues to call for armed resistance and not peace of any nature.

 

[nib95]

"O dear Imam (Khomeini)! You said the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map. I should say that your illuminating remark and cause is going to come true today. The Zionist Regime has
lost its existence philosophy... the Zionist regime faces a complete deadend and under God's grace your wish will soon be materialized and the corrupt element will be wiped off the map," said President Ahmadinejad.

Where are you getting this? Link?

This is the actual quote properly translated.

the Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.

Translation controversy
Many news sources repeated the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting statement by Ahmadinejad that "Israel must be wiped off the map",[5][6] an English idiom which means to "cause a place to stop existing",[7] or to "obliterate totally",[8] or "destroy completely".[9]
The Iranian presidential website stated that "the Zionist Regime of Israel faces a deadend and will under God's grace be wiped off the map," and "the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map."[10]
Ahmadinejad's phrase was "بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود" according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[11]
The translation presented by the official Islamic Republic News Agency has been challenged by Arash Norouzi, who says the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". Norouzi translated the original Persian to English, with the result, "the Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."[12] Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, agrees that Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as, "the Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)."[13] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian." Instead, "he did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[14] The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translated the phrase similarly, as "this regime" must be "eliminated from the pages of history."[15]

On a side note, I would agree with him about the current Israeli regime. Imo it should vanish or at least change. A one state solution perhaps? It is a warmongering, violent, aggressive and dangerous regime. One that is displacing millions, destroying entire nations and so forth.

 

[Reuenthal]

I support the use of viruses being against the Iran nuclear program, so the problem here is losing control of it.

 

[FyreWulff]

The amount of mental gymnastics it takes for people to be against a worm that bloodlessly destroys a nuclear power plant -- one that nearly every responsible power (edit: and diverse, independent voices; see NYT, NPR, WSJ, even prominent sources in ME journalism) in the Western World agrees is being used to contribute to a Nuclear weapons program -- is ridiculous.

I think that many people would rather see millions die of a Nuclear attack in the Middle East, than see the United States or Israel exercise any military exertion -- even one that is nearly entirely bloodless.

Yes, let's completely look over the fact that one of our allies modified the program to explicitly spread itself beyond it's target.

And so what if Iran gets the bomb? Then we can't invade them anymore and war is off the table. They learned the lesson of who didn't get invaded and who did (protip: we didn't invade countries with nuclear bombs)

 

[theignoramus]

"O dear Imam (Khomeini)! You said the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map. I should say that your illuminating remark and cause is going to come true today. The Zionist Regime has
lost its existence philosophy... the Zionist regime faces a complete deadend and under God's grace your wish will soon be materialized and the corrupt element will be wiped off the map," said President Ahmadinejad.

Put this in the statement don't see how it changes it.
"eliminated from the pages of history"

A one state solution and a return of all refugees would wipe Israel off the map and destroy Zionism. That's why Israel calls it the "demographic threat" or "demographic weapon"

 

[CHEEZMO™]

My lack of reply likely had nothing to do with anything you said. I don't always go back and check any thread I've replied in.


But please, show me why I'm mistaken once again. How does one "debunk" a quote?

Is it not true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#Translation_controversy

.

 

[captainnapalm]

I'm sorry but this "mistranslation" bit has gone too far and it is always brought up as "propaganda". The statements general drift was that Israel shouldn't exist. Not a new government but that the Israeli country shouldn't exist. Thats what was said. OMG he didn't use the word map!

He stated Iran's objection to the state of Israel and the desire that it doesn't exists. There are problems with idioms in translation. It happens a lot but the general gist of the statement is exactly the same.

Also why don't you read what the Iranian's president's own website stated

http://web.archive.org/web/20110716100837/http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=10114

You don't see the difference in calling for an end to a regime and calling for an entire country to be annihilated?

 

[el retorno]

Where are you getting this? Link?

This is the actual quote properly translated.





On a side note, I would agree with him about the current Israeli regime. Imo it should vanish or at least change. A one state solution perhaps? It is a warmongering, violent, aggressive and dangerous regime. One that is displacing millions, destroying entire nations and so forth.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110716100837/http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=10114

 

[captainnapalm]

My lack of reply likely had nothing to do with anything you said. I don't always go back and check any thread I've replied in.


But please, show me why I'm mistaken once again. How does one "debunk" a quote?

By proving that it is not a real quote.

 

[nib95]

http://web.archive.org/web/20110716100837/http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=10114

I think the problem here is you confusing "regime" with "country". I would also agree that the current zionist regime is heinous. But that does not equate to me thinking Israel should be wiped off the map. Not even close. It's bullshit propaganda is what it is. And it's shocking it has been so effective, even to this day. Even after so many have rebutted it including sources in the US! (The New York Times for example.)

 

[Measley]

 

[el retorno]

I think the problem here is you confusing "regime" with "country". I would also agree that the current zionist regime is heinous. But that does not equate to me thinking Israel should be wiped off the map. Not even close.

YES IT DOES!

It means zionism. It means a jewish state. He's not talking about getting rid of a certain president. He's talking about geting rid of a jewish state in what is now palestine. The end of Israel.

You're doing gymnastings to justify the statement when its meaning is clear. Israel shouldn't exist.

 

[nib95]

Blah blah

Did you read my links? The point of them is that the IAEA reports whatever the powers that be want them too. At this point they are not credible at all. If the powers want them to report, skew or exaggerate findings to suit a certain warmongering agenda, that's exactly what they'll do, and what they have done in the past.

YES IT DOES!

It means zionism. It means a jewish state. He's not talking about getting rid of a certain president. He's talking about geting rid of a jewish state in what is now palestine. The end of Israel.

You're doing gymnastings to justify the statement when its meaning is clear. Israel shouldn't exist.

I am actually baffled by your reading comprehension. You know the quote does mention "regime" multiple times?


It's fucking INSANE what lengths people will go to to skew shit.

According to El Retorno, Zionist Regime = End of Jewish State as a whole and the end of Israel. Insane I tell you...

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Did you read my links? The point of them is that the IAEA reports whatever the powers that be want them too. At this point they are not credible at all. If the powers want them to report, skew or exaggerate findings to suit a certain warmongering agenda, that's exactly what they'll do, and what they have done in the past.

oh lol I see. "I don't want to believe."

Well that's fine then. The IAEA and UN aren't credible and clearly neither is your opinion. That'll be good to know in future discussion.

 

[el retorno]

Did you read my links? The point of them is that the IAEA reports whatever the powers that be want them too. At this point they are not credible at all. If the powers want them to report, skew or exaggerate findings to suit a certain warmongering agenda, that's exactly what they'll do, and what they have done in the past.

Oh so the UN is subject to manipulation? Reports are skewed and exaggerated to suit certain agendas? So all those reports about Israel and Palestine could have been to? Just disregard all of them I guess we don't know if their valid.

 

[theignoramus]

Never mind anything else he's said, this ideal isn't possible without Jews dying. There is a considerable demographic majority of Jews in the region and the state of Israel exists as a result. This is why he continues to call for armed resistance and not peace of any nature.

it's almost like you're saying going to war with Israel is a fundamentally anti-semitic act.
LOL,Abraham Foxman, is that you?

 

[el retorno]

I am actually baffled by your reading comprehension. You know the quote does mention "regime" multiple times?


It's fucking INSANE what lengths people will go to to skew shit.

According to El Retorno, Zionist Regime = End of Jewish State as a whole and the end of Israel. Insane I tell you...

What does his statement mean? What does he mean by regime?

 

[nib95]

Oh so the UN is subject to manipulation? Reports are skewed and exaggerated to suit certain agendas? So all those reports about Israel and Palestine could have been to? Just disregard all of them I guess we don't know if their valid.

What I'm saying is, after everything that happened with Iraq, we need to be wary. Having said that, I've always been a supporter of Iran having nuclear weapons so it doesn't matter to my personal viewpoint.

I think ownership of nukes is one of the main deterrents to agression from real threats these days, you know, countries like the US and Israel. Who will fuck up entire nations at whim or on false pretences or intel.

But I know that opinion is unpopular among Americans.

What does his statement mean? What does he mean by regime?

re·gime /riˈZHēm/
Noun:
A government, esp. an authoritarian one.
A system or planned way of doing things, esp. one imposed from above.

 

[captainnapalm]

YES IT DOES!

It means zionism. It means a jewish state. He's not talking about getting rid of a certain president. He's talking about geting rid of a jewish state in what is now palestine. The end of Israel.

You're doing gymnastings to justify the statement when its meaning is clear. Israel shouldn't exist.

Yet that's not what he said. He specifically referred to a "regime", not Israel. It seems clear he believes there are bad people in charge there, and that they should be removed to have any chance of peace with Israel.

The West has made it its business to target or flat out remove leaders or regimes of countries it does not feel are going to be good to do work with. Yet when an Arab leader says it, he wants to destroy all the people in that country.

Aren't you just blinded by prejudice? You just don't believe that an Arab leader could be reasonable about things. He must hate all Jews and want them dead, despite the fact that people have pointed out that there are Jews living peacefully even in his own country.

Arab leaders are all basically Hitlers to you, as opposed to people with a legitimate beef with a highly aggressive, fiercely nationalistic and militaristic state like Israel. If history has shown anything, it's that states with these kinds of attributes are dangerous and capable of doing very bad things. Israel is no different.

 

[BruiserBear]

By proving that it is not a real quote.

Yes, that has clearly been proven. Semantics arguments make it very clear for everyone.


To be clear, I've got a lot of problems with the way the government of Israel handles itself, and I wish it were different. But to defend Iran as some of you do, and literally go about pretending that they're every bit as reasonable as many other countries, is laughable. They're run by a group of dictators, who have questioned the holocaust happening, executed gay people, implemented insane laws to control their people, etc, etc. Your blind defense is bizarre to say the least.

 

[jorma]

Never mind anything else he's said, this ideal isn't possible without Jews dying. There is a considerable demographic majority of Jews in the region and the state of Israel exists as a result. This is why he continues to call for armed resistance and not peace of any nature.

wat? Not only is it a possible solution, it's a plausible solution.

 

[theignoramus]

What does his statement mean? What does he mean by regime?

I agree, the Iranians have been unequivocal about their desire to see an end to Israel. That doesnt mean they want the area Israel sits on to be "Judenrein" and I believe you and others falsely imply that that's the desire and intent behind Iran's statements. You want to make it about a war against the Jewish people, when's always been about Zionism, as far as Iran was concerned. Obviously Hamas and Hezbollah are different, they're the ones who've made unambiguous statements about wanting Jews thrown out or wiped out.

 

[captainnapalm]

Yes, that has clearly been proven. Semantics arguments make it very clear for everyone.


To be clear, I've got a lot of problems with the way the government of Israel handles itself, and I wish it were different. But to defend Iran as some of you do, and literally go about pretending that they're every bit as reasonable as many other countries, is laughable. They're run by a bunch of nutjobs, who have questioned the holocaust happening, and made countless other ridiculous statements. Your blind defense is bizarre to say the least.

I wouldn't say I'm blindly defending them, they certainly are not perfect, but the context of this thread is the US and Israel and their intentions towards Iran, which are quite clearly not very good at all. If they attack, innocents will suffer and die again. I don't want more war in the world, thanks. I don't feel that Iran is a clear threat to world peace. Iran is not the world's boogeyman, they're not part of any axis of evil. That's all bull.