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[thetrin]

lol "trolling".

i am trolling for presenting my situation, what i want advice about, and being frustrated that almost no one will answer my questions

thanks to everyone that has been helpful, when i get the machine i want to play games with u guys.

Are you talking about the same thread where you posted an HP machine, and a bunch of people offered you viable alternatives that would be a better value?

 

[Izayoi]

I've been experimenting with a HTPC the last couple of months (I spend 1600 euro's on hardware) but overall it's still so unpractical for gaming that I only use it for web browsing and watching movies.

- Mouse and keyboard don't work well from a couch.
- Full HD resolution is pointless since the letterboxes are too small for anything bigger than desktop view ratio.
- Setting up wifi devices was a pain in the ass because of the interference but at least it works for now.

I basically wasted 250 euro on an amd 6950. Thank god I didn't spend money on an SSD. If would have increased the collateral damage on my wallet by 150 euro's.

Don't let that money go to waste! Why doesn't your KBM work well from the couch? Is there too much distance between them and the receiver? Do you have an uneven surface to work with? Have you considered trying a controller instead? Most PC games released in the past couple of years have native gamepad support. In fact, if you have an Xbox 360 controller just lying around, you can plug it in and play most anything with it.

 

[thetrin]

A 6950 is pretty much the best value for a video card right now. Play some games on that bitch!

 

[Wallach]

how is that "half doing it myself"? it comes assembled and OS-installed out of the box. all i have to do it plug in a graphics card.

how is that the worst of both worlds?? why should you even comment on how bad the worlds are? it seems like it will work for me and my needs/price range

If you're going to replace the PSU and GPU, you have to unplug the PSU from every component it is connected to, replug everything and re-route the PSU wiring yourself. Including seating your new GPU, that's is really a large chunk of what goes into PC building. You're going to be getting your hands on every powered component in the case, you're just avoiding the step of actually screwing those pieces to the plastic/metal in the case. Do you really feel like you'd be uncomfortable screwing those things in?

I don't think that PC is a horrible deal or anything like that. Just that you could probably do a little better for your money - the reason that is relevant being it will play itself out in how well you get to run your games. That's why it is always present when you're talking about PC purchases, pre-built or not.

If you do pick up your friend's 9800 GTX, you should have enough cash left over to get a decent 450W+ PSU off Newegg (like this, which is 15% off if you can order it before the end of the day) and you'll probably be doing alright for yourself.

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

I've never been a PC gamer, and here are my reasons.

1. When I buy a game, I want to play it right away. No compatibility issues, video card staff, installation problems, etc.

2. I prefer to use a controller, although I am aware of Xpadder.

3. I don't want to constantly upgrade computer hardware in order to play the latest games. I'd rather spend money on a game console and use it for the next 3-5 years.

4. Console exclusives.

 

[Zep]

And yes, I'm aware that these numbers I've used don't reflect actual graphics cards or whatever. You know why that is? Because that's what it looks like to me, a person who doesn't already understand these things. It is literally a foreign language to me.

Was in the same boat, all I did was modify what people were building in the PC thread and get advice from a few people who know their stuff. Then when putting it together I looked at these small screws that came with the tower I bought, didn't look important so I said fuck it and put my motherboard in...

Everything was done and decided to fire it up...Half-second flash and then nothing. I took everything out 4-5x and decided to ask Mr.bob why nothing was coming on. Ran through a checklist of issues and those little screws I threw off to the side? Mounting screws for the motherboard! The prongs touched the metal when I powered it...Damn idiot and lucky everything else still worked. Point is, just have fun with it and you have more than enough people to help you with any question.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

I've never been a PC gamer, and here are my reasons.

1. When I buy a game, I want to play it right away. No compatibility issues, video card staff, installation problems, etc.

2. I prefer to use a controller, although I am aware of Xpadder.

3. I don't want to constantly upgrade computer hardware in order to play the latest games. I'd rather spend money on a game console and use it for the next 3-5 years.

4. Console exclusives.

Oh I see, so two of your reasons are unfounded.

 

[Nabs]

You guys do know you get to keep your console(s) when you do build a PC. No need to throw them in a fire or anything, I promise.

 

[Always-honest]

Everyone listing large display/couch/whatever are aware that you can use a large screen TV to connect to a PC right? And there are such things as wireless mouse/keyboard.

Just saying...

I hope so. It only has been said a thousand times.

 

[dock]

The lack of refund options on Steam is pretty appalling, for the record. I've bought several pieces of content that I haven't been able to play.

I'm curious about how many couch PC gamers there are here. It's often given as a glib response to people saying they don't wan't to play at a desk, but often keyboard and mouse seems pretty terrible from a couch, even with the invalid tea-tray options. GUIs aren't designed for such viewing distance either.

 

[blame space]

Are you talking about the same thread where you posted an HP machine, and a bunch of people offered you viable alternatives that would be a better value?

value

that's the crux of this thread

"value"

for a console gamer, value is how much they are willing to pay to play games/use the OS features of any certain console. for PC gamers, it seems like value is both the most and least important feature involved in actually playing PC games. maybe it's because computers are totally usable in non-gaming environments at a very low price-point, while having a computer capable of playing games takes an effort -- it's superfluous to the actual point of the hardware.

there is comfort in one's definition of value. if you want to play PC game and a PC that is ALMOST capable of letting you do that goes on sale for $130 off retail.. it's not a stretch to enter the "console mentality".

"hey i can buy this and play games i've never been able to play on it with one simple upgrade!"

that is my mindset. i don't care what anyone else considers "valuable" outside of my specific graphics card questions. this is unfathomable to you people despite having no connection to my wallet.

what if they put a non-integrated card into that machine and sold it for $100 more? my word, console gamers might be willing to buy a new console that they can play PC exclusive games on!

wouldn't that be just terrible!

 

[Grinchy]

You guys do know you get to keep your console(s) when you do build a PC. No need to throw them in a fire or anything, I promise.

oooooooohhhhhh


when my videocard gets here I may turn into more of a PC gamer than a console gamer. PSN being down + Minecraft + Terraria + Steam Deals = a lot of incentive to join the master race

 

[Izayoi]

I've never been a PC gamer, and here are my reasons.

1. When I buy a game, I want to play it right away. No compatibility issues, video card staff, installation problems, etc.

2. I prefer to use a controller, although I am aware of Xpadder.

3. I don't want to constantly upgrade computer hardware in order to play the latest games. I'd rather spend money on a game console and use it for the next 3-5 years.

4. Console exclusives.

1.) Steam fixes these problems.

2.) Almost all recent games have native controller support.

3.) I'm only just upgrading my PC and I've had it for five years. Even when I bought it five years ago it walked all over the Xbox 360 and PS3 in terms of power.

4.) That is a legitimate issue and that why I would recommend having both a console and a PC.

 

[Trent Strong]

The lack of refund options on Steam is pretty appalling, for the record. I've bought several pieces of content that I haven't been able to play.

I'm curious about how many couch PC gamers there are here. It's often given as a glib response to people saying they don't wan't to play at a desk, but often keyboard and mouse seems pretty terrible from a couch, even with the invalid tea-tray options. GUIs aren't designed for such viewing distance either.

Yeah, I tried playing Risen from my couch, and I couldn't read a word of the instructions because the font was so tiny.

 

[Secks4Food]

You guys do know you get to keep your console(s) when you do build a PC. No need to throw them in a fire or anything, I promise.

I guess the line of reasoning here is that they have to sell their console to help subsidize their PC purchase? Or they only get to pick one or the other? But yeah, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of pro PC folks in this thread also own at least one console and get to enjoy their console's exclusives.

 

[Izayoi]

value

that's the crux of this thread

"value"

for a console gamer, value is how much they are willing to pay to play games/use the OS features of any certain console. for PC gamers, it seems like value is both the most and least important feature involved in actually playing PC games. maybe it's because computers are totally usable in non-gaming environments at a very low price-point, while having a computer capable of playing games takes an effort -- it's superfluous to the actual point of the hardware.

there is comfort in one's definition of value. if you want to play PC game and a PC that is ALMOST capable of letting you do that goes on sale for $130 off retail.. it's not a stretch to enter the "console mentality".

"hey i can buy this and play games i've never been able to play on it with one simple upgrade!"

that is my mindset. i don't care what anyone else considers "valuable" outside of my specific graphics card questions. this is unfathomable to you people despite having no connection to my wallet.

what if they put a non-integrated card into that machine and sold it for $100 more? my word, people might actually spend an extra $100 on it in order to play PC exclusive games!

wouldn't that be just terrible!

Did you see the ibuypower machine I linked you? There's a cheaper one, for $599, that still walks all over the HP here. There's also one for even less, at $499, that edges out the HP and gives you a very reasonable gaming setup here.

 

[Wallach]

You know what man, how about this. You buy that PC, and I'll sell you a 485w Enermax and a 5850 for $125 shipped, so that you can get your game on. If that is what is holding you up from getting into PC gaming, let's get it out of the way in a way that leaves you with a decent gaming machine.

 

[vocab]

I've never been a PC gamer, and here are my reasons.

1. When I buy a game, I want to play it right away. No compatibility issues, video card staff, installation problems, etc.

2. I prefer to use a controller, although I am aware of Xpadder.

3. I don't want to constantly upgrade computer hardware in order to play the latest games. I'd rather spend money on a game console and use it for the next 3-5 years.

4. Console exclusives.

1) I never once ran into installation issues in the last 10 years of PC gaming. Maybe some buggy Korean MMO with some shit stain patcher, but everything works out of the box.

2) Most games have controller support. Though if your an FPS game why bother.

3) Every time I built my PC it got 3-5 years easily, and that's not including minor upgrades

4) That's why I have a PS3. Great to have both.

 

[SentientStone]

The genres I prefer tend to be less PC-centric genres. I am not that fond of RTS, MMORPG, WRPG, or FPS games. My favorite genre is fighting games and my most anticipated game is The Last Guardian... so yeah. ;p I enjoy playing on a big screen with surround sound and don't want to put a PC in my living room. Also, I own a 2009 Mac Mini and don't see myself upgrading to another desktop in the next 5 years (MBP next year though).

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Except that you're on GAF, which means you have an entire community of people willing to help you. So basically, what IS the excuse at that point?

The thread isn't asking why Joe Six Pack isn't playing PC games. The thread is asking why YOU'RE not.

So if I have a six pack, am I a "dudebro"? Wtf is with this hostility. GAFfers can be average people too you know.

There is no "excuse". The fact is, it takes work. And I'm not being sarcastic.

Ease of use, convenience....Pretty much nothing new to say at this point. Learning how computers work is not a top priority for most people.

(not that that is required to PC game, but it certainly is if you want to make a custom build)

 

[M°°nblade]

Don't let that money go to waste! Why doesn't your KBM work well from the couch? Is there too much distance between them and the receiver? Do you have an uneven surface to work with? Have you considered trying a controller instead? Most PC games released in the past couple of years have native gamepad support. In fact, if you have an Xbox 360 controller just lying around, you can plug it in and play most anything with it.

It wasn't the distance. My onboard wifi dongle didn't work because the HTPC case caused interference. It took me hours of reinstalling win7 drivers and buying multiple wifi dongles, keyboards and mouses to find out. In the end, I solved it by connecting my external wifi dongle to a long USB cable instead of plugging it directly to an USB slot on my case.

I tried motioninjoy and got my DS3 controller to work wireless. But:
- To make it work you need to reserve the wifi dongle. You need to choose between using the dongle for a DS3 controller or KB&M since it overwrites the drivers which means buying two wifi dongles or reinstalling the MIJ drivers everytime you want to use your controller.
- Activating the DS3 controller still boots my PS3, so I have to turn the PS3 off everytime I want to use it on my PC.

So if you want a gamepad, save yourself the trouble and buy a regular wireless PC gamepad instead.

Personally, using a gamepad is not an option for me. You underestimate the number of games that don't support gamepad control.
Witcher doesn't support it, neither do Mass effect or bioshock 2 or or dragon age 2. And Xpadder would only be half a solution since I wouldn't want to play age of empires 3 or guild wars 2 with a gamepad even if they paid me for it.

In the end, consoles are still the best option to play games in your living room.

 

[phisheep]

This is like saying you have a son who plays a lot of COD and Halo and from that you can gather console gaming is all about shooters. There is a lot more to PC gaming that what your son apparently plays, I'm afraid. If you're looking for games where killing people isn't a major part, you're much more likely to find a wider variety of those titles on PC, where indie and generally more experimental games thrive.

Well, that's why I said "for example".

I know there's a lot more out there of course, but for the reasons I gave I'm really not tempted by them. Occasionally something catches my eye (as Pathologic did) but it needs to be something quite unusual or special to tie me to the study and away from the family.

 

[Witchfinder General]

In my case:

- I already have a computer in my room but as that's a 2008 iMac I use it for my art and browsing the web but not gaming.

- I can't really justify adding a dedicated gaming rig to my lounge where I have my home theatre set-up as I barely have the time to spare on more games and the cost could go to much better things.

- There's just not that many PC exclusive games that I want to play to justify the cost of a gaming rig even if the aforementioned points weren't counted.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

So if I have a six pack, am I a "dudebro"? Wtf is with this hostility. GAFfers can be average people too you know.

There is no "excuse". The fact is, it takes work. And I'm not being sarcastic.

Ease of use, convenience....Pretty much nothing new to say at this point. Learning how computers work is not a top priority for most people.

(not that that is required to PC game, but it certainly is if you want to make a custom build)

That's why custom PC sites have existed for years. They give you a breakdown of what to expect right out of the bat. ibuypower, cyberpowerpc, etc.

Could not get any easier.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

It wasn't the distance. My onboard wifi dongle didn't work because the HTPC case caused interference. It took me hours of reinstalling win7 drivers and buying multiple wifi dongles, keyboards and mouses to find out. In the end, I solved it by connecting my external wifi dongle to a long USB cable instead of plugging it directly to an USB slot on my case.

I tried motioninjoy and got my DS3 controller to work wireless. But:
- To make it work you need to reserve the wifi dongle. You need to choose between using the dongle for a DS3 controller or KB&M since it overwrites the drivers which means buying two wifi dongles or reinstalling the MIJ drivers everytime you want to use your controller.
- Activating the DS3 controller still boots my PS3, so I have to turn the PS3 off everytime I want to use it on my PC.

So if you want a gamepad, save yourself the trouble and buy a regular wireless PC gamepad instead.

Personally, using a gamepad is not an option for me. You underestimate the number of games that don't support gamepad control.
Witcher doesn't support it, neither do Mass effect or bioshock 2 or or dragon age 2. And Xpadder would only be half a solution since I wouldn't want to play age of empires 3 or guild wars 2 with a gamepad even if they paid me for it.

In the end, consoles are still the best option to play games in your living room.

........what? I honestly have no idea how you had so much trouble with MIJ. It's very straight forward. You connect your DS3 to your PC via cable, and load the drivers. Your KB+M should have its own dongle, like logitech. I think you messed up the MIJ process because once you have everything installed proper the first time, you should never 'accidentally' activate your PS3. To be safe, keep your DS3 wired to your HTPC before you turn on your PC. Then push the PS button on your DS3 and unplug it from the system.

 

[SneakyStephan]

I guess the line of reasoning here is that they have to sell their console to help subsidize their PC purchase? Or they only get to pick one or the other? But yeah, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of pro PC folks in this thread also own at least one console and get to enjoy their console's exclusives.

Their parents probably won't let them have both.

Can we just change the thread title to 'Make up assumptions about why pc gaming isn't viable ' already , then it would officially be a ffa irrational hate thread and we wouldn't have to bother dignifying it.

 

[345triangle]

i used to be a PC gamer, back when the difference in quality was astronomical. now it isn't, however much anyone tries to convince me that 1080p twelve inches from my face is an essential experience, and in any case i switched to mac in 2003. since then, virtually all the kinds of games i used to love on PC have become more popular on console, and indie stuff aside (which usually isn't a problem on mac) it is incredibly rare for there to be a PC exclusive that i'd be interested in. so.

i put PC gaming alongside board gaming in my mind. a worthy pursuit, but not for me.

 

[JonCha]

The ergonomics of a controller, and personally I feel like playing on a computer restricts me in how I can play. With a console everything is very simple.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

That's why custom PC sites have existed for years. They give you a breakdown of what to expect right out of the bat. ibuypower, cyberpowerpc, etc.

Could not get any easier.

How about, go to store, buy gaming console, plug in, VICTORY. No research required.

Again, I'm not against PC gaming at all but to ignore the larger barriers to entry (I think that's the right term) compared to consoles is just disingenuous.

........what? I honestly have no idea how you had so much trouble with MIJ. It's very straight forward. You connect your DS3 to your PC via cable, and load the drivers. Your KB+M should have its own dongle, like logitech. I think you messed up the MIJ process because once you have everything installed proper the first time, you should never 'accidentally' activate your PS3. To be safe, keep your DS3 wired to your HTPC before you turn on your PC. Then push the PS button on your DS3 and unplug it from the system.

That is an example of the bitchiness that PC gaming can be. Personally, I can deal with it because I have patience and time, but for a lot of people its not worth it. And these issues do happen, as evidenced by a bunch of people listing their past issues in the thread.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

The ergonomics of a controller, and personally I feel like playing on a computer restricts me in how I can play. With a console everything is very simple.

Oh the irony.

 

[fawaz]

punkbuster

 

[IchigoSharingan]

How about, go to store, buy gaming console, plug in, VICTORY. No research required.

And that is how you end up with gamers setting up SD cables on their 1080p tvs.

 

[BobTheFork]

That is not true at all. Even a bargain bin video card can outperform consoles at this point.

When they demoed BF3, they had it running on 2 $500 cards and there was talk that a many people would use a third to run it. Does that count for every game? of course not but I have never had a PC with enough gear to run games at that magical graphical level that's supposed to make PC games worth it. I remember thinking the PS3 version of HL2 ran fine, because it looked just like it ran on my PC when it came out. I honestly don't like all the variance of performance either. I don't want there to be a dozen different factors of my machine that effect how the game runs.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

When they demoed BF3, they had it running on 2 $500 cards and there was talk that a many people would use a third to run it. Does that count for every game? of course not but I have never had a PC with enough gear to run games at that magical graphical level that's supposed to make PC games worth it. I remember thinking the PS3 version of HL2 ran fine, because it looked just like it ran on my PC when it came out. I honestly don't like all the variance of performance either. I don't want there to be a dozen different factors of my machine that effect how the game runs.

It's just GPU and CPU, really.

 

[blame space]

And that is how you end up with gamers setting up SD cables on their 1080p tvs.

the horror

 

[SneakyStephan]

How about, go to store, buy gaming console, plug in, VICTORY. No research required.

Again, I'm not against PC gaming at all but to ignore the larger barriers to entry (I think that's the right term) compared to consoles is just disingenuous.

That is an example of the bitchiness that PC gaming can be. Personally, I can deal with it because I have patience and time, but for a lot of people its not worth it. And these issues do happen, as evidenced by a bunch of people listing their past issues in the thread.

Or just post in the hardware thread over here, have someone else put parts together in any shop of your liking for you based on your needs.
Copy the list and buy the parts and pay the shop to put them together for you.

Most people here have put in more time making up excuses of spreading FUD than they would have ordering a pc and installing steam.
All of you have spent more extra time staring at loading screens in the last 2 months than I have in a year configuring and installing my games.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

But at least you're guaranteed a loading screen!

 

[BobTheFork]

It's just GPU and CPU, really.

I think that's oversimplifying, there are many variation within each CPU and GPU that effect how they perform and make them unique. I never liked having a game running and there always being something I could do to make it run better if I just wanted to spend more money.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

I think that's oversimplifying, there are many variation within each CPU and GPU that effect how they perform and make them unique. I never liked having a game running and there always being something I could do to make it run better if I just wanted to spend more money.

So your problem is actually having options? You can choose between a 3.0Ghz quad or a 3.2Ghz quad. Obviously picking the slightly faster one will result in slightly better performance. Same thing with GPUs. It's all about what you choose on your budget. You can pick the best of the litter or the worst. It's easy to do a google search for which is which.

And you don't need to spend money on better performance all the time. You can always overclock, either safely or in a risky fashion.

Do you hate having tons of cars to choose from when going to carmax.com? Do you hate having a whole aisle of cereal brands to pick from when shopping, and different colored milk caps as well? When you go to Subway do you freak out and have a mental breakdown once you're asked what toppings you want?

Why do you hate the idea that your user experience can always be improved? Driver updates increase FPS for many games constantly, and for free. I don't see anyone complaining about that.

 

[Sanjay]

You guys do know you get to keep your console(s) when you do build a PC. No need to throw them in a fire or anything, I promise.

Blasphemy! either you are with us, or you are with the consoleists.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Or just post in the hardware thread over here, have someone else put parts together in any shop of your liking for you based on your needs.
Copy the list and buy the parts and pay the shop to put them together for you.

Most people here have put in more time making up excuses of spreading FUD than they would have ordering a pc and installing steam.
All of you have spent more extra time staring at loading screens in the last 2 months than I have in a year configuring and installing my games.

Cmon man, some people are happy where they're at.

That's still more work than...>Eh, fuck it, I've spent too much time in this thread. It's like debating a wall, for both sides of the argument

 

[Data West]

Except that you're on GAF, which means you have an entire community of people willing to help you. So basically, what IS the excuse at that point?

That the same person can go buy a console and buy the game they want on it and not have to ask that question in the first place?

The overall theme to a lot of this thread is 'why don't you have a gaming pc'. That's the equivalent of 'why aren't you a democrat?' or 'why aren't you a vegan?' like as if there's something wrong with people for not wanting to invest in a gaming pc.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Cmon man, some people are happy where they're at.

That's still more work than...>Eh, fuck it, I've spent too much time in this thread. It's like debating a wall, for both sides of the argument

A lot of people are happy being PC only. Should that stop them from enjoying some console exclusives?

That the same person can go buy a console and buy the game they want on it and not have to ask that question in the first place?

The overall theme to a lot of this thread is 'why don't you have a gaming pc'. That's the equivalent of 'why aren't you a democrat?' or 'why aren't you a vegan?' like as if there's something wrong with people for not wanting to invest in a gaming pc.

If you read Opiate's posts you certainly wouldn't be posting that.

 

[MoFuzz]

Blasphemy! either you are with us, or you are with the consoleists.

Nabs is a known double agent and is not to be trusted.

The real question is, which side is he actually playing?

 

[Sanjay]

A lot of people are happy being PC only. Should that stop them from enjoying some console exclusives?

Some people have made high end PC's to play console exclusives, ala Doplhin emu. So no.

Nabs is a known double agent and is not to be trusted.

The real question is, which side is he actually playing?

Jack Bauer season 4.

 

[Data West]

If you read Opiate's posts you certainly wouldn't be posting that.

One person's post does not excuse many others.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Some people have made high end PC's to play console exclusives, ala Doplhin emu. So no.

Count me as one of them! Loving my Wind Waker @ 1080p.

But I just felt like putting the shoe on the other foot.

 

[Dimmuxx]

Windows
DRM
Noisy fan on most/all gfx cards
Lack of comfy couch
Small screen

 

[IchigoSharingan]

One person's post does not excuse many others.

No but he put into better words what many of us were trying to say, ala your 'theme' reference.

It's interesting really. The Wii audience is almost constantly trolled by the 360/ps3 crowd over graphics/online, and the Wii faithful are made to feel inferior for just enjoying their games.

Then come Master Race to ask the 360/ps3 crowd the same fucking questions, and it is no surprise how they respond.

 

[phisheep]

A lot of people are happy being PC only. Should that stop them from enjoying some console exclusives?

Er, yes? That's kind of what exclusive means. Or am I missing something here?

Unless they get a console as well of course.