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[AcceptableGhost]

Just looking at the Witcher 2 threads, I can see why some would develop that impression. Seems like max settings are dragging the master race to their knees there.

Max settings in Witcher 2 would bring consoles to probably 1/10th of a frame per second.

 

[TheExodu5]

What's the confusion about? Repeat, $2000 computer can't run Witcher 2 at locked 60fps on ultra 1080p due to fact PC games aren't really optimized and not to mention buggy. That's the problem with having millions of different PC configurations out there. If there were a console with power of my PC setup, it wouldn't be a problem.

A $2000 PC can, actually, as long as it's running dual high-end GPUs.

 

[Secks4Food]

So...any good reasons not to own a gaming PC yet? After some light browsing of the thread, I haven't stumbled upon one myself.

Edit: Hey look down below! A logical post :O

 

[Opiate]

I'll say this again, both because I think it deserves emphasis and because my typically wordy posts throw many people off:

I think the valid, inherent reasons to prefer consoles are 1) Ease of use, 2) Price, and 3) Convenience. There are also logistical reasons like specific friends who only own an Xbox, but those aren't inherent strengths of consoles -- that just happens to be your specific situation.

And I'll state again that there's nothing inherently wrong with those values. As another example, if you happen to highly value portability, then obviously the PC is a terrible choice for you, while the NDS and iPhone are better ones. It will always depend on your values.

The friction evident in this thread derives from the fact that this is generally a "hardcore" gaming forum, and almost everyone in this thread self identifies as "hardcore" gamers. Typically, values like "ease of use" and "price" aren't things that many people on this board have historically valued: that's why the Wii is so unpopular on these boards, relative to the general populace, and why handhelds are almost nonexistent here despite being significantly more popular than consoles overall. Those systems may be cheaper (handhelds certainly are), or easier to use (the Wii's calling card is its ease of use), but those qualities aren't things GAFfers typically focus on.

Instead, the values "hardcore" gamers tend to focus on are better technology/graphics, online functionality, and general flexibility. That's why we see threads fawning over the graphics of Uncharted or Killzone, or very obsessive posts about the online options available on PSN/XBL (PSN has Hulu Plus without a subscription! 360 has ESPN! etc.)

And given those specific values, the PC is the ultimate platform. It has the best online functionality with the most flexibility and the best possible graphics/technology available. Again, this doesn't mean you have to personally care about graphics, or online functionality. You can care about portability, or price, or anything else. But in a forum where we constantly see people obsess over tiny differences in graphical fidelity between multiplatform versions, it's really strange to see many of those same people ignore the platform with the best graphics and technology, the PC.

 

[beast786]

So...any good reasons not to own a gaming PC yet? After some light browsing of the thread, I haven't stumbled upon one myself.

simplicity

 

[Freshmaker]

Max settings in Witcher 2 would bring consoles to probably 1/10th of a frame per second.

Seems a silly point to raise when the game would just be optimized for the platform and wouldn't offer such an option in the first place.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

simplicity

http://www.greatcall.com/Phones/JitterbugGraphite/

Also Witcher 2 optimized for the consoles would probably be ~25fps at low settings so I don't really get the argument.

 

[Snuggles]

Are you really arguing that generally console games are more optimized and less buggy then PC?

How a game runs depends on how powerful a system is. Doubt anyone will argue that a powerful recent PC will not easy run stuff better than a 5 year old tech console no matter if the later is better optimized and less buggy.

I'm assuming the first part is a typo, since my argument was the exact opposite.

Sure, the power of your hardware is what's most important. If you're playing on an older PC, of course you're not gonna see the same results. And as I said before, optimization quality is not inherent to specific platforms. However, PC gives you the option to tweak graphics settings until you find the sweet spot, whether it's higher res textures at a performance loss or a smooth framerate as the cost of fidelity. On consoles, we're saddled with whatever compromise the developers chose to stick with. But ultimately, if your PC has 'modern' components, there is no doubt that your games will run better than the console ports of the same game.

I can only speak for my situation, but on my mid-range PC (by modern standards), I'm playing the same sub-30fps, 720p (or less) console ports @ twice the frame rate and sometimes twice the resolution on my PC.

 

[delta25]

If you personally care more about graphical fidelity, then the PC is likely the best option for you.

This may be true to an extent but with games like Killzone 2/3, Uncharted 2/3 and Gears 3, the consoles are defiantly not lacking when it comes to providing amazing visuals.

 

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

I personally don't like the idea of having to stay up to date on a yearly basis. I know that may sound lazy/cheap, but I'm not enough of a graphics-whore to want to have the absolute best graphics available.

I'd rather buy my console, knowing that I won't have to upgrade it's graphics card. I'll let the developers take as much advantage of the hardware as they can. That way I spend X amount of money on the console only once, instead of having to upgrade my computer on a somewhat regular basis.

Not to mention the fact that I just love the feel of a controller in my hands FAR more than a mouse and keyboard. Just personal preference.

 

[Red]

I personally don't like the idea of having to stay up to date on a yearly basis. I know that may sound lazy/cheap, but I'm not enough of a graphics-whore to want to have the absolute best graphics available.

I'd rather buy my console, knowing that I won't have to upgrade it's graphics card. I'll let the developers take as much advantage of the hardware as they can. That way I spend X amount of money on the console only once, instead of having to upgrade my computer on a somewhat regular basis.

Not to mention the fact that I just love the feel of a controller in my hands FAR more than a mouse and keyboard. Just personal preference.

These kinds of threads are created all the time. There is a massive PC contingent here on GAF, and the PC vs console argument tends to leak into many even seemingly unrelated threads. And always -- always -- the cost (yearly upgrades!) and comfy couch (controller is better!) arguments are put to rest within a page or two of the OP. Yet they are continually used as excuses. Do people purposefully ignore the fact that PCs don't need to be constantly upgraded, or that they can be connected to televisions, or that 90% of all multiplatform titles are controller-enabled on PC?

 

[Opiate]

This may be true to an extent but with games like Killzone 2/3, Uncharted 2/3 and Gears 3, the consoles are defiantly not lacking when it comes to providing amazing visuals.

Who defines "amazing"?

What if I think the Wii's graphics are "amazing?" Am I a wrong-stupid-poo-poo head? No, of course not. That's just my opinion. In this example, I am satisfied with those graphics, personally.But that doesn't change the fact that the PS3/360 simply output better graphics.

Similarly, if you personally find the PS3/360 to be "amazing," that's absolutely fine. If those graphics are satisfactory for you, no problem, just like it's okay if I'm fine with Wii graphics (or Atari 2600 graphics, for that matter). But that doesn't change the fact that all of those games you just listed simply are not performing at the level of high end PCs games today.

If you highly value graphical fidelity, then the PS3/360 are unquestionably inferior machines. But you don't have to value graphics that way -- I don't, and apparently you don't, either. Which, again, is completely fine.

 

[NullPointer]

Instead, the values "hardcore" gamers tend to focus on are better technology/graphics, online functionality, and general flexibility. That's why we see threads fawning over the graphics of Uncharted or Killzone, or very obsessive posts about the online options available on PSN/XBL (PSN has Hulu Plus without a subscription! 360 has ESPN! etc.)

And given those specific values, the PC is the ultimate platform. It has the best online functionality with the most flexibility and the best possible graphics/technology available. Again, this doesn't mean you have to personally care about graphics, or online functionality. You can care about portability, or price, or anything else. But in a forum where we constantly see people obsess over tiny differences in graphical fidelity between multiplatform versions, it's really strange to see many of those same people ignore the platform with the best graphics and technology, the PC.

Agreed with the bold, but only as it regards a player's platform or platforms of choice. Like it was pointed out earlier, gamers here easily get into nitpicking whether the PS3 or Xbox has better performance or features and yet they don't consider PC. That's because these gamers don't want to play the game on PC or don't have a PC that would work for gaming.

I still don't understand where the disconnect here is. Sure, the PC is a superior platform, but only for those who want to play on a PC. If you're not interested in it, then its not superior. Its just a choice.

Some people only like to play on portables - and one can argue that that same portable game would have much higher fidelity, more depth and more options on a console or PC, but it simply wouldn't matter. Its irrelevant to that person.

Game and let game.

 

[Secks4Food]

I personally don't like the idea of having to stay up to date on a yearly basis. I know that may sound lazy/cheap, but I'm not enough of a graphics-whore to want to have the absolute best graphics available.

I'd rather buy my console, knowing that I won't have to upgrade it's graphics card. I'll let the developers take as much advantage of the hardware as they can. That way I spend X amount of money on the console only once, instead of having to upgrade my computer on a somewhat regular basis.

Not to mention the fact that I just love the feel of a controller in my hands FAR more than a mouse and keyboard. Just personal preference.

No one is forcing you to upgrade every year, some of us are still going strong on 5 year old 8800 GT's. I personally find more comfort in a PC where I can replace a part if it craps out versus replacing a console wholesale once I'm out of warranty.

 

[knitoe]

A $2000 PC can, actually, as long as it's running dual high-end GPUs.

Guess, you are talking 2x580 because my CF 6970 can't.

 

[xxracerxx]

I stay away from the high end PC games because if I had $1500 to buy a gaming PC, I would rather spend it on a new Mac for my business.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Made moot since there are a lot of great PC franchises not on console.

None of those are being developed by Sony or Nintendo. Not that other companies don't produce top tier titles, but they're not producing Nintendo/Sony content.

inb4 Blizzard/Valve

 

[Laughing Banana]

So...any good reasons not to own a gaming PC yet? After some light browsing of the thread, I haven't stumbled upon one myself.

I'd say that "almost all the games I want to play is on consoles/handheld" is a pretty valid reason.

 

[Opiate]

Agreed with the bold, but only as it regards a player's platform or platforms of choice. Like it was pointed out earlier, gamers here easily get into nitpicking whether the PS3 or Xbox has better performance or features and yet they don't consider PC. That's because these gamers don't want to play the game on PC or don't have a PC that would work for gaming.

I still don't understand where the disconnect here is. Sure, the PC is a superior platform, but only for those who want to play on a PC. If you're not interested in it, then its not superior. Its just a choice.

Can you explain why you "don't want to game on PC" when you are explicitly admitting that you care about graphics/technology, and the PC is the best graphics/technology available?

That's the disconnect here. Honest question.

Some people only like to play on portables - and one can argue that that same portable game would have much higher fidelity, more depth and more options on a console or PC, but it simply wouldn't matter. Its irrelevant to that person.

Okay, hopefully this will help you see the disconnect.

Portable gamers don't play on portables because they refuse to accept consoles, or something, as you seem to be suggesting. The consoles are inferior systems to portable systems to them, because portables better espouse their values.

Let's say I really care about portability of my games, but I couldn't care one fig if the game looks like an SNES game or a PS3 game. Those are my values. For me, in what possible way would I ever prefer a home console? I wouldn't. All the things consoles are strong in, I don't care about. On the other hand, the one thing I care most about, portability, handhelds are clearly and unquestionably better at.

For me, handhelds are not just better because I refuse to accept consoles, they are better because they actually espouse my personal values more effectively. Handhelds are better systems for me, period.

That is not at all analogous to what you're suggesting above. You seem to be suggesting that people continue to game on consoles despite the fact that you freely admit the PC is actually a superior system, based on your personal values.

 

[TheExodu5]

Guess, you are talking 2x580 because my CF 6970 can't.

Crossfire profiles aren't really out for the game. My 2x GTX 570 are running it fine (with custom SLI profile)

 

[beast786]

pc gaming can be very intimidating.

hell just look at the input devices

KB/M vs Controler.

EDIT: How is this not scary tech talk. Even for Gaf standard.

 

[cartman414]

What's funny about DA2 is that basically all the reasons that game is crap had nothing to do with any of the gameplay changes they made between DA and DA2, regardless of what audience those changes were targeted towards. All that stuff would have worked just fine if the rest of the important bits hadn't been garbage. Hopefully they take something away from that mess.

The problem would have remained even had it succeeded: the aim of DA: Origins, that is, to embody the old-school role playing experience. Heck, IGN Australia did an article to that effect. Even the console version of DA: O was decidedly less authentic to that aim, going instead with the Knights of the Old Republic style 3rd person camera.

 

[Johnny2Bags]

pc gaming can be very intimidating.

hell just look at the input devices

KB/M vs Controler.

So can your first line of Cocaine =) It's a blast and I'll never go back (pc gaming) haha.

Of course some over-obsess and spend too much money on unneeded parts, just like a coke addict , but that's the minority.

 

[Snuggles]

Opiate always says it better than the rest of us.

Basically, yes, Uncharted and Killzone are amazing looking games. Guerilla and Naughty Dog know how to make the PS3 sing. However, a modern PC has *objectively* superior hardware compared to the PS3. If they were to try to do the same thing with modern PC hardware, it would look even better. This is a fact.

PC is the platform for cutting edge visuals and solid performance, because it's not restricted to several years old hardware. The only downside is that there aren't many studios who are willing to invest in it enough to push that cutting edge.

 

[NullPointer]

Can you explain why you "don't want to game on PC" when you are explicitly admitting that you care about graphics/technology, and the PC is the best graphics/technology available?

That's the disconnect here. Honest question.

Its a good question judging from the size of this thread, and I'm sure both sides (to the extent there are sides here) are flabbergasted at not having their points understood.

I care about graphics, animation, production values, depth, and choice. But, I only play games on the consoles, as my current PC setup doesn't feel comfortable for gaming (although that may change). That's a form factor thing - I prefer using a gamepad, on a couch, for a game designed specifically for HDTV viewing from several feet away, and tailored specifically to my hardware configuration and controller. I know when I buy a console game that it will work with my setup, out of the box, and if it doesn't, I'd hear about it on GAF long before I'd buy it (hopefully ;P)

By this measure, which is based upon personal preference, the PC is not superior, even though I appreciate graphics and options - I don't appreciate them more than I appreciate the standardized and integrated experience of console gaming, and the comfy couch form factor that all console games are developed for. And its not just some or most console games that fit this description, but all of them.

Believe me though, were I a primarily PC gamer, I'd extol its virtues just as many are doing here. I just wouldn't call people's differing choices objectively wrong, or claim one platform to be objectively superior. It doesn't work that way.

pc gaming can be very intimidating.

hell just look at the input devices

KB/M vs Controler.

My teenage years were all spent with KB/Mouse and they were like an extension of my nervous system. But now that I've played consoles for the past several years I have a hard time understanding how I could have liked it so much. KB/Mouse feels very alien to me now.

 

[TheExodu5]

Of course some over-obsess and spend too much money on unneeded parts, just like a coke addict , but that's the minority.

Depends what you mean by unneeded. I mean, 95% of the time, I don't need all the hardware I have...and certainly not my 2x GTX 570. However, there are those few times when for me, I feel the cost was justified. Crysis, Metro, The Witcher 2...and besides those hardware pushers, being able to maintain a 60fps lock pretty much regardless of the game is great.

 

[Secks4Food]

I'd say that "almost all the games I want to play is on consoles/handheld" is a pretty valid reason.

Do actually know that for a fact? The only way you could is if you possessed pretty extensive knowledge of every video game in existence. For example, in the past, I didn't know I wanted to play Amnesia: The Dark Descent. I knew I wanted to play a legitimately scary survival horror game at least once this generation. Then I found out about Amnesia on some GAF thread, and hey, it's quite possibly the best survival horror game ever made. Same thing with Deadly Premonition (console game, but that's not the point), it doesn't fit most criteria I would want out of a video game, but I played it anyway, then I beat it and loved it. Before playing it, I would never have considered it a game I "want to play", but yet I did, and I'm so happy that I did.

If you depend on TV commercials, gaming media outlets, or even the majority of GAF threads to know what games you want to play, you could easily come to that conclusion out of pure ignorance. Unless, you've actually done the research, your point is invalid.

 

[Opiate]

Let me put that another way, Nullpointer:

Portable gamers, in theory, care about portability of their games. That's something they highly value. Therefore, according to their own personal values, a portable system is actually better than a console. Not just "okay because it happens to have the games I want," or "I can accept it because my friends have one and I want to play with them," but flat out, unquestionably, a better system. From their point of view.

Therefore, it is logical for them to choose the system that best espouses their values.

By contrast, you are freely admitting that the PC better espouses "hardcore" gaming values, but that we can refuse to game on PCs... just because. You actually don't give a logical reason: you just say that people can continue to game on home consoles despite freely admitting that these systems are inferior, based on their point of view.

That's a very different conclusion than the portable analogy you drew. I hope this doesn't sound hostile, by the way: I'm not trying to seem mean or heavy handed here. I apologize if I seem that way.

 

[beast786]

Opiate always says it better than the rest of us.

Basically, yes, Uncharted and Killzone are amazing looking games. Guerilla and Naughty Dog know how to make the PS3 sing. However, a modern PC has *objectively* superior hardware compared to the PS3. If they were to try to do the same thing with modern PC hardware, it would look even better. This is a fact.

PC is the platform for cutting edge visuals and solid performance, because it's not restricted to several years old hardware. The only downside is that there aren't many studios who are willing to invest in it enough to push that cutting edge.

For a minute I thought you were perdicting Cafe future.

;p

 

[PigSpeakers]

Probably a pretty poor excuse to some, but I just don't have the money right now. Most of my consoles have been gifts over the years to my family, so it's not like I just went out and blew money on consoles or something. I haven't found a reason to justify building a $600 computer or whatever the budget price computer that you can build that was mentioned in that one PC thread. Most of my money goes towards recording equipment, student loans, and other smaller yet still important things. Gaming is just a side thing right now. And, like was mentioned earlier, some people just don't value graphics highly enough for it to matter. Not that I'm not totally into nice looking graphics or high framerates or anything like that, its just not the utmost important thing in the world right now. When I get a better paying job, definitely. I need another entertainment and general purpose computer. This one is 6 years old or something and isn't very reliable for much of anything anymore.

 

[Johnny2Bags]

Depends what you mean by unneeded. I mean, 95% of the time, I don't need all the hardware I have...and certainly not my 2x GTX 570. However, there are those few times when for me, I feel the cost was justified. Crysis, Metro, The Witcher 2...and besides those hardware pushers, being able to maintain a 60fps lock pretty much regardless of the game is great.

Oh I understand all too well exodus! I see you in many of the same threads on GAF and believe me if I had the money I'd splurge for even more.. As it is I'm running with a pretty solid rig myself, and I can say that The Witcher 2 completely justified it... The simple pleasure in knowing i'm experiencing the BEST merging of cutting edge graphics and art that my eyes have ever seen... and not having to dial down several settings =)

 

[Snuggles]

Probably a pretty poor excuse to some, but I just don't have the money right now. Most of my consoles have been gifts over the years to my family, so it's not like I just went out and blew money on consoles or something.

That is the very best excuse my friend.

Then again, you should see how much kidneys are going for these days. It's not like you need two of them.

 

[knitoe]

Crossfire profiles aren't really out for the game. My 2x GTX 570 are running it fine (with custom SLI profile)

I get >80fps there. Show flotsam or forest area. There I get usually ~55fps.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Agreed with the bold, but only as it regards a player's platform or platforms of choice. Like it was pointed out earlier, gamers here easily get into nitpicking whether the PS3 or Xbox has better performance or features and yet they don't consider PC. That's because these gamers don't want to play the game on PC or don't have a PC that would work for gaming.

I still don't understand where the disconnect here is. Sure, the PC is a superior platform, but only for those who want to play on a PC. If you're not interested in it, then its not superior. Its just a choice.

Some people only like to play on portables - and one can argue that that same portable game would have much higher fidelity, more depth and more options on a console or PC, but it simply wouldn't matter. Its irrelevant to that person.

Game and let game.

To be fair, I think one thing that rubs console gamers the wrong way is the notion that the PC is the be all, end all platform for games. It can, in some cases, smack of the kind of fanboyism that PC gamers laugh at when they see people counting pixels in PS3 and 360 games. Kind of drawing what Opiate said, this is a hardcore gaming forum. I think you'd find at least 50 percent of PC gamers on this forum own at least one other form of gaming device, whether it be an iPhone, DS or PS3. Myself, I own a gaming laptop, PS3, 360 and Wii. While I love my PC, I have a PS3 for the Uncharted's, 360 for the Halo's, Wii for the SMG's, etc. I recently was splitting my time between Portal 2 PC and MK9 PS3. What I'm trying to say is I love games and I'm platform agnostic. That's why sometimes when I hear stuff like “I'll wait for the PC version” is annoying. Games like RDR or LA Noire when it's clear a PC port is unlikely or a year's wait away. One of the reasons I bought a PC was to play games like The Witcher, because the console port for the first was canceled and I'll be damned if I'm going to wait a year for a possible, unconfirmed console port of Witcher 2 when I can buy it now for 45 bucks.

 

[rapid32.5]

KB and Mouse keep me from playing on PC I don't like these control schemes, same goes for wii-motes, ps-move, ect.

 

[Freshmaker]

I still don't understand where the disconnect here is. Sure, the PC is a superior platform, but only for those who want to play on a PC. If you're not interested in it, then its not superior. Its just a choice.

The reluctance can also be due to how the PC isn't a fixed target either. It can be the superior platform, but it can also suck vs a console depending on what you have in it. A PC with a 3GHZ Celeron CPU with 2 gigs of RAM and a Radeon Xpress integrated graphics chipset isn't going to blow the doors off a Wii much less a 360.

 

[ServBotPhil]

For me, there are a few intimidating things. 1) The thought of building a pc racks my brain. 2) I don't know what would be classified as a "good" pc. 3) What I do know is that I want to enjoy games like Diablo 3 and the fact that Witcher 2 looks amazing. 4) It's like reading the Japanese on an instruction manual. However, if there was somewhere I could be educated...

 

[Snuggles]

KB and Mouse keep me from playing on PC I don't like these control schemes, same goes for wii-motes, ps-move, ect.

Just out of curiousity, what is it about KB/M that turns people off?

Since going PC, one of my favorite things about it is the KB/M controls. No more horrible radial menus or dragging a thumbstick to aim or having auto-aim do it for me, I love it. It feels like it invalidates all of the limitations I had to deal with as a console gamer, when it comes to controls. Aside from platformers (barring VVVVVV) and racing games, it's probably my favorite control set up.

 

[Johnny2Bags]

Alot of good points in this thread

Null you seem to value the safety in interchageable game discs and comfy couch over a vastly superior visual fidelity.

Opiate is clearly very passionate as well =)

Overall as someone else put it, Not having the money is the best excuse and the minute I put my gaming habit over the wellbeing of myself or my family then I would stop.

However (Null are you listening?) in keeping with my cocaine analogy, I recently hooked up my Crossfire rig through HDMI to my new 50 inch plasma tv, and using the Xbox 360 controller played the witcher 2 in all it's glory... Absolutely astounding... It's like finding out I can get free cocaine for life =-) sure opened my eyes!

My girlfriend isn't too happy about not being able to watch shows while I game however and obviously we have a healthy compromise... Which brings me back to gaming being a hobby and values being put elsewhere both monetary and valuable time.

 

[KevinCow]

Last year, Mirror's Edge was on sale on Steam. After double and triple checking that, yes, my computer should be able to run it because it's over the recommended specs, I bought it.

And it ran like shit. Literally unplayable.

So ten minutes of fiddling around with the options later (made especially painful because I had to exit to the title screen every time I wanted to change something, but that was a game issue, not a PC gaming one), I figure out that, by turning absolutely every graphical option off or to low, and shrinking the resolution down so there would be like a two inch black border around the whole game, I could get it to run at an actually playable framerate. But then the game looked like shit and I didn't get to use my whole screen and it still wasn't even a good framerate.


That's why I don't bother too much with PC gaming. I don't like having to worry about whether my computer will run this game. I don't like having to spend time fiddling with options to get it to run optimally. I've just experienced this kind of problem too many times to be totally happy with PC gaming.

With a console, I can be assured that, when I take that disc home and put it in my system, it'll run the way the developers intended. Whereas a PC game, who knows? The only way to be safe, in my experience, is to just have a computer that absolutely destroys the game's requirements. I do this by just sticking with indie games and old games (5+ years older than my computer seems to be a good rule) when I game on my PC.

 

[RdN]

Money for constant hardware improvements.

 

[Red]

For me, there are a few intimidating things. 1) The thought of building a pc racks my brain. 2) I don't know what would be classified as a "good" pc. 3) What I do know is that I want to enjoy games like Diablo 3 and the fact that Witcher 2 looks amazing. 4) It's like reading the Japanese on an instruction manual. However, if there was somewhere I could be educated...

In this day and age ignorance is no longer an excuse. It all falls back to disinterest or a lack of caring. But "just because" is as good a reason as any -- it's certainly better than the inherently wrong statement that "I prefer a controller," since it's justifiable. PC games can be played with controllers, guys, it's not like they're locked to a specific control scheme. In fact, you're given infinitely more freedom on an open system than you are in the closed box of a console.

 

[AgentOtaku]

My teenage years were all spent with KB/Mouse and they were like an extension of my nervous system. But now that I've played consoles for the past several years I have a hard time understanding how I could have liked it so much. KB/Mouse feels very alien to me now.

Careful where you say this! lolz

Nah, i'm right there with you. Grew up with PC in da 90s right there along id Software, UT99, etc. ....but honestly can't stand using KB/Mouse anymore unless I absolutely have to.

 

[beast786]

For me, there are a few intimidating things. 1) The thought of building a pc racks my brain. 2) I don't know what would be classified as a "good" pc. 3) What I do know is that I want to enjoy games like Diablo 3 and the fact that Witcher 2 looks amazing. 4) It's like reading the Japanese on an instruction manual. However, if there was somewhere I could be educated...

Witcher 2 can be intimidating also. but i feel its worth the price.

 

[Opiate]

But, I only play games on the consoles, as my current PC setup doesn't feel comfortable for gaming (although that may change). That's a form factor thing - I prefer using a gamepad, on a couch, for a game designed specifically for HDTV viewing from several feet away, and tailored specifically to my hardware configuration and controller.

Right, these are definitely values I included in my long winded posts above: comfort and ease of use. You don't have to fiddle with HDTV settings, and the controller is most comfortable for you.

I will reiterate, one last time, that these are completely legitimate reasons for preferring consoles.

We just need to acknowledge, at this point, that "casual" and "hardcore" are a spectrum of preferences. It isn't as if you are a "hardcore" gamer as long as you play on PC/PS3/360, but the second you buy an iPhone or a Wii, BAM, you're a casual.

If we can accept the basic values of "hardcore" gamers I've laid out -- a preference for graphics/technology, superior online functionality, and platform flexibility -- then there is going to be a spectrum. It isn't as if Wii gamers do not care at all about these things, they just may care less than you do. Similarly, even an elitist PC gamer who spends $500 dollars a year upgrading their rig isn't quite as hardcore as someone who spends $1000.

So there's a spectrum, and I want to propose that you are simply more "casual" than many PC Gamers here. You are willing to give up some graphics/tech and online functionality for ease of use/comfort, by your own admission. Someone who prefers a Wii might be considered even more "casual," as they sacrifice even more graphics/technology for even more ease of use.

In other words, on the "hardcore-casual" spectrum, you'd fall somewhere in between Exodu5, who is clearly very highly dedicated to the best technology gaming can offer, and a typical Wii gamer. Almost certainly closer to Exodu5 than the Wii folk.

That isn't intended as an insult at all, the way "Casual" is typically bandied about: it simply means you have different values.

 

[lowrider007]

I still don't understand where the disconnect here is. Sure, the PC is a superior platform, but only for those who want to play on a PC. If you're not interested in it, then its not superior. Its just a choice.

Posts like these make me realise why there is such a divide between many avid console and PC gamers, it stinks of a stereo typical inferiority complex, one that seems to be a running theme in this thread, I game mainly on consoles but there is no denying that the PC is superior in many ways, this is a fact, it doesn't matter if your interested in PC gaming or not, it doesn't change that, I accept that.

Many seem to struggle with this, making up excuses as to why they prefer gaming on consoles over PC's or vice versa , but honestly, the reasons are irrelevant, end of the day it's just a personal preference, the platform you play on shouldn't be a badge of honer used to display your validity as a gamer, that's just ridiculous.

I think what this sadly boils down to is a glaring primitive aspect of our human nature, the 'class system', on the internet these types of human attributes are much more apparent, for the most part on the internet the only thing that really distinguishes ourselves from each other is our words spoken in the tone of anonymity, this sadly brings out the worst in us.

 

[Snuggles]

Nah, i'm right there with you. Grew up with PC in da 90s right there along id Software, UT99, etc. ....but honestly can't stand using KB/Mouse anymore unless I absolutely have to.

I'll ask again, why can't you stand KB/M anymore?

 

[NullPointer]

By contrast, you are freely admitting that the PC better espouses "hardcore" gaming values, but that we can refuse to game on PCs... just because. You actually don't give a logical reason: you just say that people can continue to game on home consoles despite freely admitting that these systems are inferior, based on their point of view.

That's a very different conclusion than the portable analogy you drew. I hope this doesn't sound hostile, by the way: I'm not trying to seem mean or heavy handed here. I apologize if I seem that way.

Oh no worries. Not feeling any hostility at all. I love a good debate.

But I don't agree that a PC espouses hardcore gaming values more than other devices, nor do I admit to any of these systems being inferior, and I'm pretty sure I said the opposite (that was my intent anyhow). I will agree that PC games can achieve much higher levels of visuals, allow for more customization and choice through mods, have a better standard for online gaming via dedicated servers, don't require paid memberships, and have gotten simpler to use over the years. But all of that comes at a cost of complexity and investment, in time if not in money.

Some of us don't want to put in the effort. We don't want to do research on what games support what, or whether disabling shadows will double the framerate. Maybe we'd rather spend time reading reviews of the gameplay than figuring out whether we should enable 2x or 4x anti-aliasing or just what the hell trilinear filtering is. Those are advanced settings yes, but that's standard for the hardcore PC gamer, on GAF and elsewhere. Whether you want to or need to do this depends upon the game and your hardware - there are no one size fits all solutions in the PC world.

It seems a little curious to me that this kind of stuff is endlessly debated in PC gaming threads, but then you get into one of these console versus PC threads and all of the sudden, PC gaming is as simple or simpler than consoles.

The long and short of it from my perspective is that people have their own preferences tailored to their lifestyle and how much investment they're willing to put into this hobby, and just using the word hardcore doesn't describe one mode for every Gaffer. And since we all have different setups, preferences and patience, you can't label one platform objectively better for the hardcore gamer.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I get >80fps there. Show flotsam or forest area. There I get usually ~55fps.

Sorry, but what exactly are you aiming to demonstrate here? Your original point if I understand it is that some completely hypothetical console would outperform your PC, which apparently is deficient in some way because it drops to 55fps (OH NOES) at times on maxed out settings while you're playing what many people believe is the most graphically impressive game ever released; and this proves that PC games are poorly optimised.

Does that sound about right?

 

[Johnny2Bags]

I would also Like to add to those that are intimidated with the building.. that I have rarely been as satisfied with my own skills than the nerve wracking moment when I first dare to press the power button on a newly built rig.!

It; in one moment, justifies your strife over the month or so it took to research everything, checking prices along the way, the care you took not to shock the components with static charge, the fact that I locked my cats in a room for fear of screwing something up, and the satisfaction from a job well done...

So please people... if you're even near the edge, Jump in and give building and PC gaming a try.. the water's warm... and my girlfriend built her first rig this year... don't wanna let that woman get a one up on ya right?