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[Secks4Food]

it is easier now compared to before but that's not the only point console gamers were arguing. console gaming is still cheaper and more convenient.

The expense of each PC vs consoles entirely depends upon the individual's choices.

Depending on when you buy a console and which console(s) you buy (perhaps a $599 US dollar launch PS3 vs a current $150 Wii), the quality of your PC parts, if you buy a PC part by part or a prebuilt system, if you have to pay someone to put your PC together, if your console/PC part is reliable and if you have to pay for it to be repaired at some point down the road, if you subscribe to online services like xbox live or PSN+, whether you buy console games new/used, if you buy games day 1 or you're usually late to the party, if you rent games, if you resell games, if you pirate games, if you resell PC parts for upgrades, what kind of peripherals you want for each.

Honestly, trying to give a blanket answer to which one costs less is practically impossible.

 

[ViolentP]

The primary input device for a console is a control, vs a mouse/keyboard for a PC. Using a controller in the living room is far more convenient than a mouse/keyboard.

I'd love to see a good MMO come out for the console, then Id give up PC gaming altogether

It's irrelevant which is the primary primary input device when both are options on the PC.

 

[mr.hands]

Last time i checked, pc's need MS Windows to play games.
Also I don't see a mind reading-controller on the motherboard, so you probably left out the keyboard/mouse.

please add another 90+50 euro. We are now looking at 800 euros, which equals +1100 dollars.

This gets you a gaming machine that is unable to play Uncharted 2, Demons Souls, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, God of War, etc.

Big, big waste of money if you ask me.
Again, if the big "AAA" "exclusive" PC titles don't have your interest, then 1100 dollars is a whole lot of money, no matter how much you try to make it look like it's only a few hundred bucks.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

It would be a less inflammatory discussion if PC gamers would acknowledge that those are legitimate issues for some people instead of disregarding any possible scenario other than a console gamer being ignorant.

They are not legitimate issues at all. I just spent all weekend playing the (PC exclusive) game of the year, The Witcher 2. All while lying on the couch, controller in hand, in front of my big TV.

I'm never in favour of shutting down legitimate avenues of discussion because I disagree with them, mind you. The problem is that every time this thread comes up, it seems that over half of the posts are variations of the same ignorant post worded slightly differently. It creates an echo-chamber effect, like that "unga bunga" post a few pages back where all these people started quoting it and going "yah this guy totes gets it for defs"; but most of the post was the same bullshit which had been debunked on the first page.

I just think that it would be substantially easier to have this discussion if it was based in reality and didn't pander to the ignorant.

 

[dock]

La la la, no-one listens to me

Windows/PC gaming is poor on a TV because of the user interface differences.

All the people suggesting people use PC on a TV with couch, do not use it primarily like this. The experience is not designed for that setup at all. Mouse and keyboard is bad, GUI is bad, and windows/steam is bad.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

^^ Agreed. I have hooked up to my HDTV several times via HDMI but the experience is clearly optimized for desktop gaming.

The expense of each PC vs consoles entirely depends upon the individual's choices.

Depending on when you buy a console and which console(s) you buy (perhaps a $599 US dollar launch PS3 vs a current $150 Wii), the quality of your PC parts, if you buy a PC part by part or a prebuilt system, if you have to pay someone to put your PC together, if your console/PC part is reliable and if you have to pay for it to be repaired at some point down the road, if you subscribe to online services like xbox live or PSN+, whether you buy console games new/used, if you buy games day 1 or you're usually late to the party, if you rent games, if you resell games, if you pirate games, if you resell PC parts for upgrades, what kind of peripherals you want for each.

Honestly, trying to give a blanket answer to which one costs less is practically impossible.

It takes time to research this stuff and learn how to use the Compy. And time is money...And can be spent in other avenues which a person may deem more worthy.

 

[BobTheFork]

So your problem is actually having options? You can choose between a 3.0Ghz quad or a 3.2Ghz quad. Obviously picking the slightly faster one will result in slightly better performance. Same thing with GPUs. It's all about what you choose on your budget. You can pick the best of the litter or the worst. It's easy to do a google search for which is which.

And you don't need to spend money on better performance all the time. You can always overclock, either safely or in a risky fashion.

Do you hate having tons of cars to choose from when going to carmax.com? Do you hate having a whole aisle of cereal brands to pick from when shopping, and different colored milk caps as well? When you go to Subway do you freak out and have a mental breakdown once you're asked what toppings you want?

Why do you hate the idea that your user experience can always be improved? Driver updates increase FPS for many games constantly, and for free. I don't see anyone complaining about that.

If you take every reason people give and blow up to proportions and situations we aren't talking about, it's not really a conversation or argument. Because I don't like the fact that the PC games will never run the same for two different people with two different systems, I must hate the ability to choose a variety of cars? I don't want to start getting chippy here but that's damn insulting.
I don't like the fact that there is performance variance at all, I want to buy my game, put it in a slot and run it. No drivers, no worrying about the OS or other programs running the background and how it effects the game, never needing to spend money because the games just keep raising and raising the specs. No crashing because for what-ever fucking reason Flash media fucked up again. I swear I've spend as much time in my life setting up fixing, modding, overclocking, and error fixing the PC games as I have actually playing them There are also major spacial reasons. The tower, monitor and computer desk took up a massive amount of room, now I have a good laptop (no 3d card) on my table taking up a 10th of the space.

I used to only play PC games from long ago up until the PS2 era, but separating my gaming and computing is one of the best things I've ever done. I still play Civ and Minecraft and Mount and Blade on my PC, but when it's big graphics and sound I want it all in the corner of the room on a shelf integrated into media center.

 

[NullPointer]

No, they are not.

You can hook a PC up to a TV.
You can use a controller on a PC.
You can play a PC on a couch while having it hooked up to your TV and using a controller.

What you can argue is that doing these things is less convenient than it is with a console. And I agree -- it is less convenient. So the root problem there is, again, convenience.

Exactly, the comfy couch argument has do with ease and standardization. Nobody is saying that PC's can't connect to TVs or that you can't use your couch, just that its a pain in the ass to set up in comparison to consoles.

Of course, nothing tech related is a pain in the ass for somebody technically inclined. But for those who don't find any pleasure in configuring their hardware/software or for those who have their PCs farther away from their TVs its just not worth the bother, no matter how many people here say otherwise.

 

[Corto]

La la la, no-one listens to me

Windows/PC gaming is poor on a TV because of the user interface differences.

All the people suggesting people use PC on a TV with couch, do not use it primarily like this. The experience is not designed for that setup at all. Mouse and keyboard is bad, GUI is bad, and windows/steam is bad.

Our Lord Gabe shall provide.

 

[Red]

La la la, no-one listens to me

Windows/PC gaming is poor on a TV because of the user interface differences.

All the people suggesting people use PC on a TV with couch, do not use it primarily like this. The experience is not designed for that setup at all. Mouse and keyboard is bad, GUI is bad, and windows/steam is bad.

You can customize the UI as you see fit. Steam is set to release a "TV mode" to squelch those complaints. But even now, you have the option to list your games as big picture buttons, which makes the "hard to see" argument redundant.

Mouse and keyboard complaints have been addressed time and time again. It's pretty darn easy to simply use a controller's analog stick as a mouse pointer if you're getting really picky about it, and it's entirely possible to get a media remote that works the same way as a Wiimote if that's the interface you prefer.

W7's option for a big taskbar mitigates navigation issues a small amount, but I agree it's less than ideal. Still, there is a huge amount of customization available to users on a UI level. You could always use something like XBMC as well.

The idea that it's impossible to use a PC on a TV, or that it's too terribly tricky to set up, is absolutely untrue. It's less accessible than a console, but then so is every other piece of home theatre electronics.

The real excuse in your case is apathy: you don't care enough to set it up. And that's fine. That's reason enough. I don't think it's ignorance, because surely you know the resources available to you; you'd be able to look up step-by-step guides or get actual human help from countless individuals to solve any problems you encounter. But you don't want to bother with that. Many people don't. And that's fine. But to say it's impossible, or that "Windows/PC gaming is poor on a TV" -- that's simply wrong.

 

[Mastperf]

They are not legitimate issues at all. I just spent all weekend playing the (PC exclusive) game of the year, The Witcher 2. All while lying on the couch, controller in hand, in front of my big TV.

I'm never in favour of shutting down legitimate avenues of discussion because I disagree with them, mind you. The problem is that every time this thread comes up, it seems that over half of the posts are variations of the same ignorant post worded slightly differently. It creates an echo-chamber effect, like that "unga bunga" post a few pages back where all these people started quoting it and going "yah this guy totes gets it for defs"; but most of the post was the same bullshit which had been debunked on the first page.

I just think that it would be substantially easier to have this discussion if it was based in reality and didn't pander to the ignorant.

Probably should wait for the rest of the games to get released before handing over the game of the year award. I understand being hyped for the current best thing ever, but lets try to keep an open mind.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

La la la, no-one listens to me

Windows/PC gaming is poor on a TV because of the user interface differences.

All the people suggesting people use PC on a TV with couch, do not use it primarily like this. The experience is not designed for that setup at all. Mouse and keyboard is bad, GUI is bad, and windows/steam is bad.

I can only wonder why.

 

[Secks4Food]

^^ Agreed. I have hooked up to my HDTV several times via HDMI but the experience is clearly optimized for desktop gaming.

It takes time to research this stuff and learn how to use the Compy. And time is money...And can be spent in other avenues which a person may deem more worthy.

Okay...and the way time relates to money on an individual basis is more complex and unique to each person than the things I listed, which further supports my point that neither one is definitively cheaper.

 

[Red]

I can only wonder why.

I thought (hoped?) he meant the interface, and not Windows or Steam themselves.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

The real excuse in your case is apathy: you don't care enough to set it up. And that's fine. That's reason enough. I don't think it's ignorance, because surely you know the resources available to you; you'd be able to look up step-by-step guides or get actual human help from countless individuals to solve any problems you encounter. But you don't want to bother with that. Many people don't. And that's fine. But to say it's impossible, or that "Windows/PC gaming is poor on a TV" -- that's simply wrong.

Couldn't agree more.

I use Windows on my TV from my couch all the time. I have a small multimedia remote with a full keyboard and trackball for navigation and a 360 pad for games. I can easily bring up any of my movies, music or games and can quickly switch between my plasma and surround sound back to my monitor and PC speakers. Hell, I just played 30 minutes of The Witcher (the first) while on my exercise bike with a 360 pad using Xpadder.

I understand it's not feasible for everyone depending on the location of their PC and TV, but if you can do it but aren't, you're really missing out. And if it's because of laziness, then it's really sad.

Edit: I didn't even mention the multitasking you can do. I can be playing a game and easily alt-tab out to check GAF all on the TV without the use of another device.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Okay sports fans, let's make this interesting. Please explain the following things in detail so that we can give this discussion a little context:

- What about PC gaming makes it "optimised for desktop gaming"? Please answer without talking about RTS or MMOGs.
- In what way(s) is it more complex to connect a PC to a TV than a console? Please answer without talking about your PC being in another room.

Probably should wait for the rest of the games to get released before handing over the game of the year award. I understand being hyped for the current best thing ever, but lets try to keep an open mind.

This is neither the time nor the place for this discussion but you clearly haven't played The Witcher 2.

 

[Boney]

Basically I don't like console gaming all that much unless it's couch multi. I play a lot of Nintendo software, have always used a Mac so I've never really used it for gaming except for Marathon or PoP as a kid, and I'm pretty dumb when it comes to computers.

When Steam opened for Mac, grabbed Portal, and it glitched and you couldn't see shit, then it didn't really ran all that well, and I suck with a mouse as well. Then I got L4D2, and I didn't check and didn't ran on my OS and finally got Meat Boy and I'm still waiting on the Mac version..

I'm not a videophile either, I can't really tell the fps, and all the technical stuff about performance, so I'm pretty happy to be stick with consoles.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

If you take every reason people give and blow up to proportions and situations we aren't talking about, it's not really a conversation or argument. Because I don't like the fact that the PC games will never run the same for two different people with two different systems, I must hate the ability to choose a variety of cars? I don't want to start getting chippy here but that's damn insulting.
I don't like the fact that there is performance variance at all, I want to buy my game, put it in a slot and run it. No drivers, no worrying about the OS or other programs running the background and how it effects the game, never needing to spend money because the games just keep raising and raising the specs. No crashing because for what-ever fucking reason Flash media fucked up again. I swear I've spend as much time in my life setting up fixing, modding, overclocking, and error fixing the PC games as I have actually playing them There are also major spacial reasons. The tower, monitor and computer desk took up a massive amount of room, now I have a good laptop (no 3d card) on my table taking up a 10th of the space.

I used to only play PC games from long ago up until the PS2 era, but separating my gaming and computing is one of the best things I've ever done. I still play Civ and Minecraft and Mount and Blade on my PC, but when it's big graphics and sound I want it all in the corner of the room on a shelf integrated into media center.

I apologize if you felt insulted. Didn't mean to.

Unless you're running tons of resource intensive apps in the background, you'll rarely have to worry about background activity actually having a significant impact on your game. Not even Vista gave those problems.

If you don't like the idea of games raising specs and as such, the cost, then you wouldn't have bought a single 360/ps3 this gen! Overall cost went up.

I don't know anyone who has put as much time 'fixing' a PC game as he did playing it. Not in all these years. And I have known thousands of PC gamers. I suppose you would be the first. Assuming you're not ultra-exaggerating, sorry for your troubles.

For most gamers on this platform, it really is just buying the game, installing, and running at high resolution/visual eye candy. And then waiting for even better performance with newer drivers. I wish I could set up your PC for you so that you would have that kind of experience as well. Dunno what's going on over there.

I thought (hoped?) he meant the interface, and not Windows or Steam themselves.

aye but as you pointed out, there are already solutions available/coming for those issues.

 

[Red]

Couldn't agree more.

I use Windows on my TV from my couch all the time. I have a small multimedia remote with a full keyboard and trackball for navigation and a 360 pad for games. I can easily bring up any of my movies, music or games and can quickly switch between my plasma and surround sound back to my monitor and PC speakers. Hell, I just played 30 minutes of The Witcher (the first) while on my exercise bike with a 360 pad using Xpadder.

I understand it's not feasible for everyone depending on the location of their PC and TV, but if you can do it but aren't, you're really missing out. And if it's because of laziness, then it's really sad.

Edit: I didn't even mention the multitasking you can do. I can be playing a game and easily alt-tab out to check GAF all on the TV without the use of another device.

Forget about alt tabbing; just open the Steam overlay and you've got a full web browser and friends list without even leaving a game.

And before anyone tries to argue that one, it's also possible to enable the overlay for games bought outside of Steam. So those who have an adverse reaction to DD can sleep easy.

Steam has built in voice support as well.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Forget about alt tabbing; just open the Steam overlay and you've got a full web browser and friends list without even leaving a game.

Steam is the womb I never want to pull out from.

 

[Mastperf]

Okay sports fans, let's make this interesting. Please explain the following things in detail so that we can give this discussion a little context:

- What about PC gaming makes it "optimised for desktop gaming"? Please answer without talking about RTS or MMOGs.
- In what way(s) is it more complex to connect a PC to a TV than a console? Please answer without talking about your PC being in another room.



This is neither the time nor the place for this discussion but you clearly haven't played The Witcher 2.

And you clearly haven't played the games that haven't even been released yet. An uninformed opinion is just that, regardless of how strongly you feel.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Forget about alt tabbing; just open the Steam overlay and you've got a full web browser and friends list without even leaving a game.

True, and I use it for games like Shogun 2 that can take awhile to alt tab back into, but in most cases I prefer to just alt tab out and use a more fully functional browser.

Either way, more options for PC gamers!

 

[Neuromancer]

There are a lot of reasons but one of the biggest is all the tweaking you guys have to do to get games to run, or run well. It was a pain in the ass when I used to do PC games 10+ years ago, and it's a pain in the ass now.

 

[Snuggles]

And you clearly haven't played the games that haven't even been released yet. An uninformed opinion is just that, regardless of how strongly you feel.

thanks for clearing this up, I didn't know that there are still more games coming out this year

 

[Ysiadmihi]

There are a lot of reasons but one of the biggest is all the tweaking you guys have to do to get games to run, or run well. It was a pain in the ass when I used to do PC games 10+ years ago, and it's a pain in the ass now.

C'mon, really?

 

[IchigoSharingan]

And you clearly haven't played the games that haven't even been released yet. An uninformed opinion is just that, regardless of how strongly you feel.

Overruled. This is the Witcher 2. His statement stands.

 

[Osietra]

Agreed.... I'd be willing to accept PC master race a bannable meme so that console gamers don't think the mods would only be clamping down on one side either.

I had no idea there was this undercurrent of feeling.

 

[Neuromancer]

C'mon, really?

Yes. Really. That stuff is in every PC game thread.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

And you clearly haven't played the games that haven't even been released yet. An uninformed opinion is just that, regardless of how strongly you feel.

What crawled up your arse and started gnawing on your guts dude? It was obviously a joke to indicate that I think that the game is amazing and one of the best I've ever played.

 

[Mastperf]

thanks for clearing this up, I didn't know that there are still more games coming out this year

Wasn't talking to you specifically but glad I could inject some common sense into the current group thought.

What crawled up your arse and started gnawing on your guts dude? It was obviously a joke to indicate that I think that the game is amazing and one of the best I've ever played.

No need to get so angry. It's very common for an awesome game to be called game of the year so early in the year. Your reply made it seem like you were serious.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

So we've boiled down to that PC gaming allows you to play on keyboard/mouse, on a "comfy couch" (uhh) with a controller, customize to your hearts content (or none at all if you want to). And also play the games at a much better technical clip. All pros, no cons.

 

[Snuggles]

So we've boiled down to that PC gaming allows you to play on keyboard/mouse, on a "comfy couch" (uhh) with a controller, customize to your hearts content (or none at all if you want to). And also play the games at a much better technical clip. All pros, no cons.

con:

they are a fire hazard with all the heat they generate and all the electrical cords crammed behind them

PC gaming will kill you in your sleep

 

[Ecotic]

Everything keeps me away from PC gaming. I'd have to build a PC gaming rig, and worry about ever changing graphics cards, and making sure my PC is always maintained and updated. It sounds expensive and being independent has left me struggling financially (my first console this generation was a 360 Arcade edition). Plus historically the PC for me has always been about the internet, facebook, watching t.v. episodes, and reading, reading, reading. I couldn't stay focused on gaming with all that a few clicks away.

Quite honestly I wish PC gaming didn't exist, and I wish all the developers and resources went to making console related stuff. Personally I've always loved the personality driven nature of console gaming (console maker vs. console maker, exclusive vs. exclusive), and PC gaming feels like an entirely different culture that feels alien and uninteresting to me.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Yes. Really. That stuff is in every PC game thread.

Okay, a lot of that is from people who have vastly underpowered systems but still want to get the games to run. And there is an active scene for each game that does this.

You can get Crysis to run decently with a lot of tweaking if you have something like an NVidia 7800GT, for example.

It's like tweaking PS2-level hardware to run Gears 3. It's not something that was truly meant for it but is still possible.

People get a kick out of being able to do this.

However, most modern systems (2-3 years old) can run new games just fine off the bat.


Please do not confuse the tweaking scene (and its objectives) with 'every pc gamer struggling to get a game to run/run well'.

 

[JADS]

con:

they are a fire harzard with all the heat they generate and all the electrical cords crammed behind them

PC gaming will kill you in your sleep

Pro:

Free heating during the winter months.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Yes. Really. That stuff is in every PC game thread.

And your point is what? I haven't had any major issues with games since Civ 5, and all I had to do to fix them was update my video card drivers which took not even 5 minutes. It takes longer for my 360 to download and install updates.

It's not everyone's experience, so don't act like it is. I'm not deluded enough to think every 360 red rings.

 

[Red]

So we've boiled down to that PC gaming allows you to play on keyboard/mouse, on a "comfy couch" (uhh) with a controller, customize to your hearts content (or none at all if you want to). And also play the games at a much better technical clip. All pros, no cons.

Buddy, I'd call the necessity of buying yearly upgrades with a cost equivalent of the GDP of a small country a pretty big con.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

So we've boiled down to that PC gaming allows you to play on keyboard/mouse, on a "comfy couch" (uhh) with a controller, customize to your hearts content (or none at all if you want to). And also play the games at a much better technical clip. All pros, no cons.

47 pages and oft-mentioned valid reasons are still being ignored

I'm off to play battletoads

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Buddy, I'd call the necessity of buying yearly upgrades with a cost equivalent of the GDP of a small country a pretty big con.

I haven't upgraded or changed any part in 3 years. I still run every game at high/medium settings at 60 locked. Significantly better than any console could do.

I own all the consoles but man, gaming would suck pretty bad if their was no option of PC gaming. Gaming NEEDS an open platform.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Everything keeps me away from PC gaming. I'd have to build a PC gaming rig, and worry about ever changing graphics cards, and making sure my PC is always maintained and updated. It sounds expensive and being independent has left me struggling financially (my first console this generation was a 360 Arcade edition). Plus historically the PC for me has always been about the internet, facebook, watching t.v. episodes, and reading, reading, reading. I couldn't stay focused on gaming with all that a few clicks away.

Quite honestly I wish PC gaming didn't exist, and I wish all the developers and resources went to making console related stuff. Personally I've always loved the personality driven nature of console gaming (console maker vs. console maker, exclusive vs. exclusive), and PC gaming feels like an entirely different culture that feels alien and uninteresting to me.

You do realize PC development exists because there are tons of goods on the platform that would be impossible on a console? Blizzard would implode on trying to fit Starcraft into a console.

Buddy, I'd call the necessity of buying yearly upgrades with a cost equivalent of the GDP of a small country a pretty big con.

lol

47 pages and oft-mentioned valid reasons are still being ignored

I'm off to play battletoads

Even the pettiest of reasons can still be called 'valid.'

 

[dock]

I can only wonder why.

Quoting out of context.

I was talking about Windows/Steam in terms of interface for using from a couch, which assumes limited mouse control.

 

[elrechazado]

Buddy, I'd call the necessity of buying yearly upgrades with a cost equivalent of the GDP of a small country a pretty big con.

This is the type of shit man...

 

[jay]

Is this any different from not owning all consoles? People often have so much time and money to dedicate to games so they pick a system or two that seem to offer the most with the least path of resistance, no?

 

[NullPointer]

ITT: PC gaming enthusiasts refuse to understand people's preferences, and some console exclusive gamers hold on to their bad memories of PC gaming from 10 years ago.

Both positions are faulty imo.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Is this any different from not owning all consoles? People often have so much time and money to dedicate to games so they pick a system or two that seem to offer the most with the least path of resistance, no?

In a lot of people's cases it probably is. Not everyone likes to admit it though, and that's why we see tons of posts in this thread that list reasons that are complete falsehoods.

 

[elrechazado]

Is this any different from not owning all consoles? People often have so much time and money to dedicate to games so they pick a system or two that seem to offer the most with the least path of resistance, no?

Kind of, although 99% of the people posting in this thread are doing so on a PC of some kind, and the idea that the only pc games out there are the witcher and crysis is ludicrous. The amount of amazing smaller games that run on all sorts of hardware out there is so insanely awesome, that to say "I don't game on my PC" when you actually have one, is just insanity if you're a gamer. It's like buying a 360 and only using it for netflix and facebook. You got that shit, dig a little and find out how many awesome games there are.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Quoting out of context.

I was talking about Windows/Steam in terms of interface for using from a couch, which assumes limited mouse control.

Would you please answer my questions above?

Edit:

47 pages and oft-mentioned valid reasons are still being ignored

I'm off to play battletoads

And you too please. While you're at it list all of these oft-repeated and valid arguments rather than simply declaring your position correct and then leaving the thread.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

ITT: PC gaming enthusiasts refuse to understand people's preferences, and some console exclusive gamers hold on to their bad memories of PC gaming from 10 years ago.

Both positions are faulty imo.

I think I understand the preferences bit. But PC GAF asks: do you truly prefer

to

??




Do you truly prefer

over

??

 

[Snuggles]

Metro can suck it, FEAR is a best FPS.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Consoles ruined FEAR 2 sadly.