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[Soodanim]

Yeah, I agree. This is a bit of a stretch, but I'm thinking about what happened to the United Methodist Church recently. They had a conservative wing and a liberal/woke wing, battling for control. Issues related to diversity, inclusion, female pastors, LGBTG+, etc. The conservative wing saw the writing on the wall and bailed out. They "disaffiliated," meaning they left the UMC.

And what happened next? The woke brigade completely took over. Search "UMC general conference" if you want to see - everyone with their pronouns, the LGHDTV flags flying, the gay and lesbian pastors, the girl power celebrations, the "monitoring" committee encouraging members to report on each other for non-inclusive language. They've gone completely off the rails.

That's an example of what happens when you cede ground to the wokies. This is a religion to them, and they don't stop. They are relentless with it. They just keep pushing and pushing. They have no greater purpose in life than spreading their ideology. When you cede ground, they move right in and take over. (I'm aware that the videogame industry is not a church, so don't take my analogy too literally.)

That's why I think it's dangerous to hide your head in the sand and ignore it. Unless there is pushback, it will continue to grow, to metastasize.

Unlike a church, though, gaming companies are supposed to make money. Hopefully, that will stop things from getting too bad. Unless something produces a profit, it's going to eventually end up on the chopping block. But talking about the issue and pushing back is part of undermining those profits.

OP: "I'm sick of this culture war nonsense all the time in every thread"

Humdinger: Cool... SO ANYWAY IF ALL 800 ACTIVE USERS DON'T FIGHT 24/7 WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THIS WAR SO SUIT UP

Ignoring the non-impact of this when we aren't on Era and you're basically preaching to a choir, isn't that exactly what the OP is on about?

Yep whenever media like gaming and movies are subverted by radical political types and used to try and control what people can do and say and think, you know what's just as bad? When people who would never do that complain about it on forums!

Why is there always someone that completely misses the point and just uses it as an excuse to shout "But they are worse!"?

The point isn't who's worse, the point is that neither side will shut the fuck up.

 

[Kataploom]

Here in GAF we're very diverse (hehe), and some want to discuss those matters affecting game dev, if you think the balance needs a shift creating new threads for the subjects you want to discuss would be a good start imo

 

[Darkmakaimura]

More interested in discussing the lore of various game worlds over dissonant Existentialism, people arguing why 120 FPS is better then 60 FPS or how well Company A's stocks are doing vs Company B's.

That's so much. I would love to talk about lore but everything seems to be about technical aspects.

And I'm sorry but console wars are stupid as all hell and childish.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

p.s. I appreciate that GAF allows that sort of discussion. Other forums do not.

It really doesn't. Threads on the subject matter get locked pretty quickly. There was one last night that got locked early this morning. There's a "no politics" rule here at the very least when it comes to making threads.

 

[nemiroff]

Nah, I'm good, thanks. I'm not going to let my hobby be waltzed over without pushback.

Console wars tho, yikes..

 

[Humdinger]

I mean, it sounds like they amicably separated and now can both practice their way of worship in the way they want to. Theres only a problem here if you think only the conservative wing should be allowed to continue. Thats not how it works in America. Its a free country.

Pretty sure it was a religion for BOTH parties in your example.

You missed the point. I'm saying that when you cede ground to the woke, they will grab it, because it's like a religion to them. They will just keep pushing. If there isn't a counterweight, it'll just take more and more ground.

As I said, my analogy was a stretch and not to be taken literally. If it doesn't work for you, drop it. Just listen to the main point. If you don't push back against the wokies, they just gain more ground.

Theres no version of this where everyone agrees on one thing. Thata simply never gonna happen. You can't just make people with different ideology not exist anymore. If they want to do things differently then there should be a bought space for both to coexist in separation if necessary.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to tell me that "There's no version where everyone agrees on one thing. That's simply not going to happen." No kidding.

Who said I wanted to make "people with a different ideology not exist anymore"? You're putting words in my mouth.

If the wokies want to create woke games that cater to the woke crowd, go for it. I've got nothing against people creating woke games, or buying them, or playing them. It's not my cup of tea, but it's a free world and a free market. Have at it. I'm not wanting to "make people with a different ideology not exist anymore."

However, I am concerned at how a lot of games are being co-opted and ruined by DEI initiatives and other woke junk. I'm happy to express my opinion about that and push back against it.

And by "push back," I don't mean eliminate all woke people (as you seem to imply), but simply raise awareness of the issues and not buy games that include too much of it.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I come to Neogaf because I'm interested in video games. I'm becoming very tired of threads about culture wars - diversity, inclusivity, wokeism, however you want to word it. Its not video game discussion, its bait and its designed to rile people up.

I hope I'm speaking for the silent majority who haven't "taken a side" in this so-called war and really just want to discuss video games without all this combative tangential stuff.

And to those who do want to spend the precious hours of their finite lives fruitlessly arguing about these things in a video game forum then...

Please don’t discuss things directly impacting the quality of games on this gaming forum.

Pretty much. If this was just journalists and you tubers trying to get outrage clicks in either direction, that would be one thing. Unfortunately, it's not.

I remember when the religious right did their best to censor video games and force everyone to conform to their moral values. Now that a different but similar crusade is being waged by the secular left, that doesn't mean you're "taking a side" when you oppose it. If you are consistent, you didn't like that sort of thing then, and you don't like it now either. I would argue that opposing censorship is not taking a side. It's supporting censorship that aligns with your worldview where taking a side happens.

 

[semiconscious]

Nah, I'm good, thanks. I'm not going to let my hobby be waltzed over without pushback.

Console wars tho, yikes..

yep. understand: while there're now multiple games assuring us that gender identity is normal & healthy, there're exactly zero games assuring us that it's incoherent & delusional...

there's currently an ideology being inserted into different games. you can either quietly submit to this process or you can oppose it. remaining silent will not make it disappear...

 

[Humdinger]

OP: "I'm sick of this culture war nonsense all the time in every thread"

Humdinger: Cool... SO ANYWAY IF ALL 800 ACTIVE USERS DON'T FIGHT 24/7 WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THIS WAR SO SUIT UP

That's a ridiculous strawman. Don't put words in my mouth.

To say something is worth doing is not to say you should make it the focus of a 100%, all-out WAR. For example, I should mow my front yard. That doesn't mean lawnmowing should be the center of my life, or that I should become engrossed in an all-out, 24/7 crusade against my grass.

When I say gamers ought to "push back against this woke stuff," I mean they should 1) raise awareness of the woke incursion into videogames, and 2) vote against it with their wallets. That's all.

 

[DAHGAMING]

This thread is probably the most woke shit I have seen on this forum.

 

[Humdinger]

It really doesn't. [Meaning GAF doesn't allow talk about culture wars.] Threads on the subject matter get locked pretty quickly. There was one last night that got locked early this morning. There's a "no politics" rule here at the very least when it comes to making threads.

I'm sure some threads do get locked, but there are plenty of threads that have those discussions. That's what the OP is complaining about, after all.

p.s. I am not complaining. I actually find the discussions interesting and often funny.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Console Wars are for retards.

Culture Wars are annoying, but without pushing back against regressive ideals, they will stay and continue to destroy the media we love to consume. Give me a million NieR's, 0 Suicide Squad's.

 

[nial]

We should merge ERA and GAF for a real war.

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

I absolutely agree.

I personally don't have a side, because my point has always been that I'm completely for diversity or non-diversity, I just want it to be honest and something that is coming from the devs themselves. And not from outside (Sweet Baby, "Raibow Capitalism", so on so on). That is my only participation in this "war". I want pure artistic freedom and expression. That's it.

The problem is that no one wants to have that discussion.
Is just either "Take them Tra***** and uglies women away from my video games" or the OBNOXIOUS gamingcirclejerk adjacent people. Both sides could care less about video games.

 

[Field]

We need another forum for the folk that never takes any sides.

 

[Banjo64]

The issue is that devs like Insomniac will continue to inject this in to games whether we want it or not. So what you advocate for OP basically boils down to ‘ignore devs who focus on social politics over believable and well written characters and stories’ because let’s face it, 99% of this insertion is absolute slop.

 

[captainnapalm]

The issue is that devs like Insomniac will continue to inject this in to games whether we want it or not. So what you advocate for OP basically boils down to ‘ignore devs who focus on social politics over believable and well written characters and stories’ because let’s face it, 99% of this insertion is absolute slop.

Exactly - no one likes a war, culture or otherwise, but if the alternative is having this weirdo cult ideology continue to inject its bullshit into everything, you're going to keep shining a light on the problem.

 

[Randall365]

I try to be cool with things. And then you are in the toy store and your son is looking at the Playmobil Ecto 1 and it is bundled with Winston and Janine - none of the other ones who presumably are worse than Hitler now - you can’t even buy them. Janine isn’t even a fucking Ghostbuster for fuck’s sake!

It does make you want to take things to task when you see it creeping into games - albeit I can see it gets tedious.

 

[Isa]

All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Everybody has a limit and I met mine a long time ago. Not only is it saving me a LOT of moolah, but I appreciate learning about who and what is going on in the products on offer across all swathes of entertainment. As well as outside services and products as well.

Some people choose to Ostrich their way around it but it will still go on in their intentional absence but in truth this has been a manufactured plan for many decades from several sources and in truth I can't help but admire those I despise. They played the long game(institutional and academic infiltration and subversion) and its paying off with huge returns sadly. For the revolutionaries these aren't toys or mere entertainment, they're tools to be used to manipulate and destroy.

I understand the wish for it all to stop and that it never came to this but I'm with my brothers and sisters until the end.

 

[Toons]

You missed the point. I'm saying that when you cede ground to the woke, they will grab it, because it's like a religion to them. They will just keep pushing. If there isn't a counterweight, it'll just take more and more ground.

But what "ground"? Again, this isnt an either or thing. This isnt an "us or them". Ceding ground denotes exactly that. One group occupying a space the other can not. Like a tug of war. Thats not what's happening here, or at least it doesn't have to be.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to tell me that "There's no version where everyone agrees on one thing. That's simply not going to happen." No kidding.

Who said I wanted to make "people with a different ideology not exist anymore"? You're putting words in my mouth.

I never said you said anything. Im saying if your talking about "ceding ground" then you have to be specific about what ground is being ceded and what that actually means, because i don't think you're just talking about them existing either.

If the wokies want to create woke games that cater to the woke crowd, go for it. I've got nothing against people creating woke games, or buying them, or playing them. It's not my cup of tea, but it's a free world and a free market. Have at it. I'm not wanting to "make people with a different ideology not exist anymore."

However, I am concerned at how a lot of games are being co-opted and ruined by DEI initiatives and other woke junk. I'm happy to express my opinion about that and push back against it.

And by "push back," I don't mean eliminate all woke people (as you seem to imply), but simply raise awareness of the issues and not buy games that include too much of it.

Ok, and to what end? Whats too much?

Its hard to get any idea what you're referring to because you're using terms without defining the subject.

 

[Humdinger]

But what "ground"? Again, this isnt an either or thing. This isnt an "us or them". Ceding ground denotes exactly that. One group occupying a space the other can not. Like a tug of war. Thats not what's happening here, or at least it doesn't have to be.

Well, if you think the woke and anti-woke can occupy the same "territory," I don't know how you get there. To me, there are very marked differences in philosophy and values between those two groups. It is not "us or them" - in the sense that only one can survive, and the other must be eliminated (as you were implying earlier). But it is "us vs. them." We have two groups that want very different things.

I never said you said anything. Im saying if your talking about "ceding ground" then you have to be specific about what ground is being ceded and what that actually means, because i don't think you're just talking about them existing either.

You're asking me to go back to the basics of what the whole "woke" conversation is about. Do we really need to do that, here? When I talk about the "territory" being fought over or surrendered, do you really not know how to translate that metaphor into what is going on in the gaming world, with the whole "woke" vs. "anti-woke" stuff? Do I need to explain that? Because if I do, I'm going to have to opt out.

Ok, and to what end? Whats too much?

To make a small difference - admittedly, a miniscule and probably unimportant difference. I don't put much effort into it - just participate in discussions and avoid buying games that are too woke. I don't expect much results from it, either. These forces are way bigger than me.

"Too much" would be a subjective judgment. How much do the woke intrusions have to degrade the characters, dialog, or story before you say it's "too much"? It's in the eye of the beholder. Some people don't mind the woke stuff, and others detest even a hint of it. The anti-woke crowd skews more toward the latter, but there is still a wide range.

Its hard to get any idea what you're referring to because you're using terms without defining the subject.

Well, I've taken a shot at clarifying what I was saying, so hopefully that helped. If there are still areas that seem vague to you, I'm going to have to leave it there. I'm not going to have a conversation about basic issues of the "woke" controversy. This conversation has been going on for years, and most people are already familiar with the issues. I don't want to rehash all that.

Take it easy.

 

[clintar]

Well once the devs just make games and stop pushing ideology we don't have to worry and it either. Until then, we HAVE to be exposed to it so what do you expect?

 

[Danjin44]

My issue is there is no middle ground anymore….either everything is “woke” or everything is “problematic”.

 

[Gamerguy84]

I agree. It's why I participate less.

If you want to talk about games though head to community section.

 

[Edgelord79]

I couldn’t care less about politics being in games. Which means I couldn’t care less about these culture discussions. But I agree with the OP here, it can get exhausting and it would be nice if there was less of it.

 

[semiconscious]

My issue is there is no middle ground anymore….either everything is “woke” or everything is “problematic”.

nah. there're still a few of us who see it while not seeing it everywhere. it's just that it's often the extremes that seem to dominate the conversation. it's that way with many issues at this point. being reasonable just oftentimes doesn't generate attention, is all...