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Coronavirus Global Pandemic |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

darkinstinct

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Is this post satire? You realize you posted a "cases" graph, not a "deaths" graph, right? Deaths are still trending down and have been for months. 500k by the end of the year? What are you smoking? Masks for the rest of our lives? Lol fuck off.

As soon as death rates weren't scary enough as they have been in decline for a while, media pivoted to using cases as their fearmongering centerpiece. Yet the people who are wise to the dishonesty going on are the ones who are brainwashed, sure. Tell yourself that.

This "long term consequence" stuff has actually fallen mostly out of the media fearmongering rotation, probably because it's so anecdotal and not proven to be widespread at all. Same with this "kawasaki-like" nonsense in kids they tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to link with COVID.

You are all useful idiots and are being played. The virus is real, but it is being taken advantage of by bad actors. Maybe it's just to hurt Trump. Maybe Bill Gates is trying to play God. Maybe something else is going on. But you even have the CDC estimating an infection fatality rate of 0.26% which is only marginally higher than the seasonal flu, and we're ready to totally destroy our way of life for this. They scared the shit out of everybody to the point that almost everybody bought in over such a short period of time.

I hadn't seen this until today, but this scientist thinks the lockdown has already caused an obscene number of deaths. I'm willing to go with Hanlon's Razor here and will not assume this was done on purpose, but as I said, nefarious interests are definitely taking advantage.

Don't be silly. Deaths trail cases by 3 to 6 weeks. You will see the spike in deaths soon enough, it's inevitable. Those 50.000 infections of today lead to 2.000 deaths per day in three weeks.
 

darkinstinct

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But you even have the CDC estimating an infection fatality rate of 0.26% which is only marginally higher than the seasonal flu,
The flu sits at 0.09 %. And that is based on CDC estimates of deaths, the reported number of deaths for the flu sits at 0.006 (CDC estimates that the number of flu related deaths are 15x higher than the reported numbers). Even in this case covid-19 would be 2.4 times as deadly as the flu. And not marginally worse.
 
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Pizdetz

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You do realize that 0.26% of the American population is 858 thousands deaths ?
Bro have some perspective. So far we've had 120k deaths over the course of 4 months. Every month America has 200K deaths. If you do the math that's a measly 15% increase the number of deaths. This is taking into account we've shut down, social distanced, some of us care about others so we wear masks. Like what is 15%? We have to save the economy my man. I say let's end this bullshit so I can attend a Trump mega rally and go to a beach were I can marinade my fat ass in the sun.

/s
 
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prag16

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Don't be silly. Deaths trail cases by 3 to 6 weeks. You will see the spike in deaths soon enough, it's inevitable. Those 50.000 infections of today lead to 2.000 deaths per day in three weeks.
Bookmarking this. I don't expect anything close to those numbers. Hospitalizations are still mostly flat or down in most areas. We may see single days over 1k at some point, but not 2k. And I wouldn't be surprised if we never see 1k again.
Bro have some perspective. So far we've had 120k deaths over the course of 4 months. Every month America has 200K deaths. If you do the math that's a measly 15% increase the number of deaths. This is taking into account we've shut down, social distanced, some of us care about others so we wear masks. Like what is 15%? We have to save the economy my man. I say let's end this bullshit so I can attend a Trump mega rally and go to a beach were I can marinade my fat ass in the sun.

/s
We'll see what the true excess deaths end up looking like. And hopefully we'll be able to analyze collateral damage from the lockdowns not directly caused by the virus eventually.

And to the guy who said lol 0.26% of the population is 850k people.. Everyone on the population getting a virus is how it has worked in no outbreak ever. Not even close. And even then that's less than 1/3 of how many Americans die in any given normal year. Yeah if 850k got tacked onto that, that'd be bad. But that's not what's happening or is going to happen.
 
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Zefah

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Man, american's campaign against masks is the dumbest thing I've seen in a while.
As someone who lived in Japan for a while, yeah, I agree. I can't fault everyone who is suspicious, though. The experts have got a shit ton wrong and our media is so full of shit and so insanely hypocritical that when they start broadcasting that people need to do one thing or another, I can see why the immediate reaction among average Americans is to think they should probably do the opposite.
 
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Zefah

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Majukun

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As someone who lived in Japan for a while, yeah, I agree. I can't fault everyone who is suspicious, though. The experts have got a shit ton wrong and our media is so full of shit and so insanely hypocritical that when they start broadcasting that people need to do one thing or another, I can see why the immediate reaction among average Americans is to think they should probably do the opposite.
nah, it's still insanely stupid
 

sinnergy

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It punishes states for doing more testing and finding more cases even if their deaths continue to trend downward.

Also, as low as a 1% change really making you go from yellow to red? An 11% total shift in daily cases means you go from "GREEN ALL GOOD" to "SHIT RED DEAD?" It's bananas.
When you test More and did a good job , you should get less infections , that’s what’s happening here in Europe, the Netherlands... and other countries .

that’s not what you see in the USA , they test more but also find more infections instead of less.

so containment has failed in states that show more corona infections.
 
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Zefah

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When you test More and did a good job , you should get less infections , that’s what’s happening here in Europe, the Netherlands... and other countries .

that’s not what you see in the USA , they test more but also find more infections instead of less.

so containment has failed in states that show more corona infections.
I think it's because we had so many more infections that simply were not being detected at all. Experts always talked about how the confirmed case numbers probably represented 10% at most of the actual cases in the country. It stands to reason that when you finally start testing anyone and everyone, regardless of age or symptoms, then you're going to uncover a lot more positive results.

Are the tests still as faulty as they were in March and April? The PCR tests had like a 70% sensitivity rate, meaning 30% of the team they would fail to detect a positive and like upwards of a 5% false positive rate, right? They were disaster and would only lead to insane numbers of false positives and false negatives if deployed at scale, completely confounding the entire system (especially since we have no capability of really doing thorough track and trace in the US).

nah, it's still insanely stupid
It is, but it helps to try to understand people's perspectives sometimes. This is not a country that has any culture of wearing masks. At the beginning, everyone was told by all experts and media that wearing masks would not help. Or it might help a bit, but only if you were a medical professional and knew how to operate it in conjunction with other PPE, but you shouldn't use it anyway since the medical professionals were short on PPE. Then the story changed that, oh, actually, masks or any kind of face covering can help stop the spread of the virus to others. All the while, you have a media that is feeding you all kinds of political bullshit about the response to this virus without any regard for what the truth might be. It just became a political shoot out with everyone just trying to get in digs on their ideological opponents. Trust in institutions was completely eroded by May for a lot of people.

Also, this is not a culture in which attempts at shaming people into doing things typically receives positive reactions, but that has been the entire strategy of the mask proponents for the most part.
 
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Majukun

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It is, but it helps to try to understand people's perspectives sometimes. This is not a country that has any culture of wearing masks. At the beginning, everyone was told by all experts and media that wearing masks would not help. Or it might help a bit, but only if you were a medical professional and knew how to operate it in conjunction with other PPE, but you shouldn't use it anyway since the medical professionals were short on PPE. Then the story changed that, oh, actually, masks or any kind of face covering can help stop the spread of the virus to others. All the while, you have a media that is feeding you all kinds of political bullshit about the response to this virus without any regard for what the truth might be. It just became a political shoot out with everyone just trying to get in digs on their ideological opponents. Trust in institutions was completely eroded by May for a lot of people.

Also, this is not a culture in which attempts at shaming people into doing things typically receives positive reactions, but that has been the entire strategy of the mask proponents for the most part.
experts never said that masks don't help, at least they never did here in europe and i don't see why they should tell different in the US. The point was simple, there was a finite amount of masks iin the market and you had to give priority to people that HAD to stay in close proximity to covid patients (medical professionals), while the rest of the population could just apply social distancing.Of course the amount of how much it would help fluctuated because this was a new virus and was being studied in real time, both in terms of its effects and how it spread.
Now we have that knowledge (not 100% but definitely better than months ago), and we also have enough masks for everyone, so there are really no excuses or "eroded trust on the media" that can excuse people for not wearing masks.

also, you say that people were "shamed" into using masks and they didn't like it, but other than telling them once, what are people supposed to do other than telling people to stop being stubborn fools and wear a damn mask?
the "shaming" started because people were not following directives in the first place, not viceversa.
 

Zefah

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experts never said that masks don't help, at least they never did here in europe and i don't see why they should tell different in the US. The point was simple, there was a finite amount of masks iin the market and you had to give priority to people that HAD to stay in close proximity to covid patients (medical professionals), while the rest of the population could just apply social distancing.Of course the amount of how much it would help fluctuated because this was a new virus and was being studied in real time, both in terms of its effects and how it spread.
Now we have that knowledge (not 100% but definitely better than months ago), and we also have enough masks for everyone, so there are really no excuses or "eroded trust on the media" that can excuse people for not wearing masks.

also, you say that people were "shamed" into using masks and they didn't like it, but other than telling them once, what are people supposed to do other than telling people to stop being stubborn fools and wear a damn mask?
the "shaming" started because people were not following directives in the first place, not viceversa.

People were explicitly told to not wear masks by the highest authorities unless they knew they had symptoms or worked around the sickly. This was based on recommendations from the World Health Organization, who most people in the world looked to for advice on this pandemic.
 
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Pizdetz

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It punishes states for doing more testing and finding more cases even if their deaths continue to trend downward.

Also, as low as a 1% change really making you go from yellow to red? An 11% total shift in daily cases means you go from "GREEN ALL GOOD" to "SHIT RED DEAD?" It's bananas.
I think at the bottom of the table it says that they calculate it based on the positive cases vs. total cases (ie. Tests). In fact they seem to be following the white house criteria that you need a "good" number of tests and 5 percent or less should come back positive to move to next phase.

Also pretty sure the whole masks ordeal and downplaying the crisis is what caused the president approval rating to crash. Might want to look there first for the origins of this nonsense.
 

Majukun

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People were explicitly told to not wear masks by the highest authorities unless they knew they had symptoms or worked around the sickly. This was based on recommendations from the World Health Organization, who most people in the world looked to for advice on this pandemic.
that was because there were not enough masks for everyone, not because they didn't knew if they were effective, if they weren't, they wouldn't have asked to keep them free for medical personnel.

but look what happened with toilet paper, the moment you don't tell people to leave masks alone, some asshole is gonna hoard all of them and either resell them at exorbitant price or just keep them in their attic because "fuck you, got mine"

now it's not 4 months ago, we have enough masks
 

Zefah

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that was because there were not enough masks for everyone, not because they didn't knew if they were effective, if they weren't, they wouldn't have asked to keep them free for medical personnel.

but look what happened with toilet paper, the moment you don't tell people to leave masks alone, some asshole is gonna hoard all of them and either resell them at exorbitant price or just keep them in their attic because "fuck you, got mine"

now it's not 4 months ago, we have enough masks
No we don't. You still can't buy actual N95 masks for shit. They could have recommended any kind of face covering in the beginning, but they did not, because they actually had no fucking idea. If making and wearing cloth face coverings is a good idea that deserves to be mandated today, then it was a much, much better idea back in March.
 
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cryptoadam

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4 months ago it was ok to let the virus spread and activly work against people taking measures to stop transmission. Reason because doctors lives are more important than yours.

Now if you dont wear a mask your some evil Nazi killer. Good job sheeple.

Where were you 4 months ago when masks could of eliminated 80% of the original transmission and the us would have 200k cases instead of 2 million? Oh ya being lead around by experts who lie to you.

Ive been wearing a mask for months. I barely see anyone wearing one and I live in Canada and it has nothing to do with Donald Trump.

Dont be an asshole and shame people for not wearing masks. I have never seen 1 person give shit to someone for not wearing a mask.

If you want to shame anyone shame their fat ass for making themselves more likely to die from the virus.

Isnt it great that the experts told us not to wear masks so the virus could spread and now all of a sudden switched gears to villify anyone who doesnt wear a mask. Maybe if these assholes said wear a mask from day 1 the west would be more like taiwan and south korea.

Imagine if the first 3 months of this virus they told us social distancing does nothing and people are too stupid to stand 6 feet apart they cant measure. So forget about SDing only doctors should SD. And then 3 months later they made it the law to stand 6 feet apart.
 

Majukun

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No we don't. You still can't buy actual N95 maks for shit. They could have recommended any kind of face covering in the beginning, but they did not, because they actually had no fucking idea.
again, i can't say for th us since i don't live there, but face covering was suggested from day one here in europe given what we knew of similiar viruses, but they had no idea how much they could actually help, that's why the emphasys was on social distancing, together with the scaricity of masks around for those people that couldn't stay at x distance from infected.

that's what science does, it doesn't "know" things from the sky above.
they observe, they research, they test
 

Zefah

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again, i can't say for th us since i don't live there, but face covering was suggested from day one here in europe given what we knew of similiar viruses, but they had no idea how much they could actually help, that's why the emphasys was on social distancing, together with the scaricity of masks around for those people that couldn't stay at x distance from infected.

that's what science does, it doesn't "know" things from the sky above.
they observe, they research, they test
I don't know the situation in every European country, but this discussion was about Americans, so I'm talking about the American context, since that's really all that matters.

Facial coverings helping in preventing the spread of disease is something that has been known forever. Asian countries in particularly actively utilize masks in daily life throughout the year. I used to live in Tokyo and it was just common knowledge to wear a mask when you're not feeling well out of courtesy to others.

All experts in the WHO and American CDC should have known this and should have recommended them from the very beginning, especially with the knowledge of asymptomatic spread and the long incubation period when infection is still a thing. Instead, they did a very stupid thing and told average American to *not* wear masks. A fuck up like that damages your credibility significantly, and it's hard to fault people who do not do their own research for thinking these experts are full of shit when they come back with the opposite directions a couple of months later without owning up to their previous stupidity and instead of acting all holier than thou about it. Most people just get fed up.
 
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Majukun

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4 months ago it was ok to let the virus spread and activly work against people taking measures to stop transmission. Reason because doctors lives are more important than yours.
sure it was because of that and not because you can't cure covid patients from afar.

Now if you dont wear a mask your some evil Nazi killer. Good job sheeple.
nah, just a stubborn idiot

Where were you 4 months ago when masks could of eliminated 80% of the original transmission and the us would have 200k cases instead of 2 million? Oh ya being lead around by experts who lie to you.
what part of "there were not enogh mask to cover the spike of request" is hard to understand?
Manufacturer don't have a millions of masks reserve for when a pandemic happens.
Hell european countries were stealing masks and ventilators shipment from each other, that's how rare those were compared to how many we needed.

Ive been wearing a mask for months. I barely see anyone wearing one and I live in Canada and it has nothing to do with Donald Trump.
good for you?

Dont be an asshole and shame people for not wearing masks. I have never seen 1 person give shit to someone for not wearing a mask.
stupidity should be shamed.

If you want to shame anyone shame their fat ass for making themselves more likely to die from the virus.

Isnt it great that the experts told us not to wear masks so the virus could spread and now all of a sudden switched gears to villify anyone who doesnt wear a mask. Maybe if these assholes said wear a mask from day 1 the west would be more like taiwan and south korea.
it was said from day one, together with the fact that we didn't have enough for everyone and we had to prioritise those who had to stay close to the infected as their daily job.
if rocks start falling from the sky, the world doesn't have enough hemets for 6 billion people, and if you have to chose who gets it and who doesn't those without a roof on their head (either because don't have one or becuse they can't stay home) would be the first to get one.

Imagine if the first 3 months of this virus they told us social distancing does nothing and people are too stupid to stand 6 feet apart they cant measure. So forget about SDing only doctors should SD. And then 3 months later they made it the law to stand 6 feet apart.

one part of the population can do two things to limit exposure, social distancing and masks.
another part can only use masks because social distancing is not doable since they have to interact with infected on a daily basis and in close environments.

one million dollar question, who should get the masks?
 
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Majukun

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I don't know the situation in every European country, but this discussion was about Americans, so I'm talking about the American context, since that's really all that matters.

Facial coverings helping in preventing the spread of disease is something that has been known forever. Asian countries in particularly actively utilize masks in daily life throughout the year. I used to live in Tokyo and it was just common knowledge to wear a mask when you're not feeling well out of courtesy to others.

All experts in the WHO and American CDC should have known this and should have recommended them from the very beginning, especially with the knowledge of asymptomatic spread and the long incubation period when infection is still a thing. Instead, they did a very stupid thing and told average American to *not* wear masks. A fuck up like that damages your credibility significantly, and it's hard to fault people who do not do their own research for thinking these experts are full of shit when they come back with the opposite directions a couple of months later without owning up to their previous stupidity and instead of acting all holier than thou about it. Most people just get fed up.
ok, we are running in circles now,...what parts of "there were not enough masks" is not clear exactly?
you say they should have told the populace to go run to the streets looking for a mask, a mask that wasn't there on the shelves because the pandemic ment a sudden spike in demand of said masks.
how useful is to tell people to follow an advice you know they will not be able to?
it's like saying "why they didn't tell everyone to go leaving for a couple months on their own private island"
because it's an advice that only a little percentage of the populace will be able to follow, despite it's effectiveness compared to social distancing.
 

Zefah

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ok, we are running in circles now,...what parts of "there were not enough masks" is not clear exactly?
you say they should have told the populace to go run to the streets looking for a mask, a mask that wasn't there on the shelves because the pandemic ment a sudden spike in demand of said masks.
how useful is to tell people to follow an advice you know they will not be able to?
it's like saying "why they didn't tell everyone to go leaving for a couple months on their own private island"
because it's an advice that only a little percentage of the populace will be able to follow, despite it's effectiveness compared to social distancing.
We're not going in circles: you are not understanding the situation here. There are still not enough masks in the traditional sense of N95/surgeon masks.

The recommendations are for people to buy or make cloth face coverings or repurpose bandanas, use scarves, etc.

If that advice is sound and effective today, then it would have been better months ago when they were telling people explicitly to not wear masks.
 

Majukun

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We're not going in circles: you are not understanding the situation here. There are still not enough masks in the traditional sense of N95/surgeon masks.

The recommendations are for people to buy or make cloth face coverings or repurpose bandanas, use scarves, etc.

If that advice is sound and effective today, then it would have been better months ago when they were telling people explicitly to not wear masks.
ther might still not be enough for everyone in every country, but the situation is still way better than 4 months ago

regarding the bandana, once again, science doesn't "know" stuff without time and testing.
there's a reason why there are all those fancy models of masks instead of just all being a piece of cloth, they offer different level of filter.
what kind of filter is enough of a filter for what you need depends on what you want protection from. n95 were suggested for medical personnel because they are the ones with the most filter (or one of, not exactly a mask expert here)

at the time we had still not completely clear how the virus was trasmitted and if a simple piece of cloth was able to contain it...hell i remember at the sttart some researchers were suggesting that the virus could float in the air for hours., which would have been terrifying and made any social distancing moot.

you could have told people that a scarf was enough, but what if it was not?
people would have now felt safe and secure and started disregarding social distancing (which is still the most effective way to avoid contagion, just straight up avoid people, but also the most hard to keep consistently), wth the result that now more people get infected than if they had just kept the 6 feet of distance and no mask.

the scintific community was learning in real time about the virus and straight up going for the less risky path at every turn..if we knew at the time the same things we know about the virus now, they would have told us what they are saying now, that to be honest is not really that different, social distancing and lockdown would still be the more secure measures, but since the economy dictates a reopening, then we default to the second best, a cover, with a little more knowledge of how much are we really protected .
 

Zefah

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ther might still not be enough for everyone in every country, but the situation is still way better than 4 months ago

regarding the bandana, once again, science doesn't "know" stuff without time and testing.
there's a reason why there are all those fancy models of masks instead of just all being a piece of cloth, they offer different level of filter.
what kind of filter is enough of a filter for what you need depends on what you want protection from. n95 were suggested for medical personnel because they are the ones with the most filter (or one of, not exactly a mask expert here)

at the time we had still not completely clear how the virus was trasmitted and if a simple piece of cloth was able to contain it...hell i remember at the sttart some researchers were suggesting that the virus could float in the air for hours., which would have been terrifying and made any social distancing moot.

you could have told people that a scarf was enough, but what if it was not?
people would have now felt safe and secure and started disregarding social distancing (which is still the most effective way to avoid contagion, just straight up avoid people, but also the most hard to keep consistently), wth the result that now more people get infected than if they had just kept the 6 feet of distance and no mask.

the scintific community was learning in real time about the virus and straight up going for the less risky path at every turn..if we knew at the time the same things we know about the virus now, they would have told us what they are saying now, that to be honest is not really that different, social distancing and lockdown would still be the more secure measures, but since the economy dictates a reopening, then we default to the second best, a cover, with a little more knowledge of how much are we really protected .
We've known the effectiveness of face coverings forever. At least medical experts and especially epidemiologists should have.


When you don't know if something is effective or not, you don't tell people to NOT do it--you say you don't know. That's what happened. "Don't do this, it's not effective." was the initial stance that was completely reversed. That kind of nonsense coming from the highest authorities in charge of dictating policy is what erodes trust in institutions and leads people to believe whatever the hell they want.
 
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Majukun

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We've known the effectiveness of face coverings forever. At least medical experts and especially epidemiologists should have.


When you don't know if something is effective or not, you don't tell people to NOT do it--you say you don't know. That's what happened. "Don't do this, it's not effective." was the initial stance that was completely reversed. That kind of nonsense coming from the highest authorities in charge of dictating policy is what erodes trust in institutions and leads people to believe whatever the hell they want.
again, if you tell them to do it while you are not sure if it is, you also have the riskof them feeling safe when they shouldnp't, of people treating your "maybe" as a declaration.
but i do agree that stances like "just don't do it" are a bit too extreme, but i can see why someone would not trust the populace to stop social distancing once they feel like they are protected by a piece of cloth

i mean look at the blm protesters, who marched packed one close to the other but wearing masks like it was not still incredibly risky
 

Zefah

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again, if you tell them to do it while you are not sure if it is, you also have the riskof them feeling safe when they shouldnp't, of people treating your "maybe" as a declaration.
Sure, don't tell them to do something if you're not sure (although, why they were not sure in the first place is puzzling). Don't tell them to NOT do it, either, though, as that makes you look like a fucking clown when you reverse course. You earlier said that stupidity should be shamed, so I hope you apply that to the "experts" in charge of policy in the US as well as the WHO who initially made such idiotic recommendations. Don't make definitive statements about things when you don't know for sure, especially when people look to you as an authority on those very same things.

i mean look at the blm protesters, who marched packed one close to the other but wearing masks like it was not still incredibly risky
It was dumb as hell and many of them were not wearing masks. It only takes one super spreader not wearing a mask to spread it to thousands in his or her general vicinity.
 
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Majukun

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Sure, don't tell them to do something if you're not sure (although, why they were not sure in the first place is puzzling).
as far as i know they just didn't knew if the virus was able to just pass through certain materials, basically how much filter was needed to stop it.

Don't tell them to NOT do it, either, though, as that makes you look like a fucking clown when you reverse course. You earlier said that stupidity should be shamed, so I hope you apply that to the "experts" in charge of policy in the US as well as the WHO who initially made such idiotic recommendations. Don't make definitive statements about things when you don't know for sure, especially when people look to you as an authority on those very same things.
well even if you are not sure at some point you have to give some directions though, or at least make your best guess about the situation. if they should be shamed or not depends on how much info was already there.

but now we have the info, or at least we have way more than before.
 

Zefah

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as far as i know they just didn't knew if the virus was able to just pass through certain materials, basically how much filter was needed to stop it.


well even if you are not sure at some point you have to give some directions though, or at least make your best guess about the situation. if they should be shamed or not depends on how much info was already there.

but now we have the info, or at least we have way more than before.
The thing is, though, it cannot hurt to wear a face covering. Recommending against it was just unequivocally an idiotic thing to do. Institutions needs to be able to say, "we're not sure, but there's probably no harm in doing it."
 

Majukun

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The thing is, though, it cannot hurt to wear a face covering. Recommending against it was just unequivocally an idiotic thing to do. Institutions needs to be able to say, "we're not sure, but there's probably no harm in doing it."
depending on the specific things they said, yeah it could have been stupid on their part, not being american can't say what they specifically said at what point in time, i can tell you that my parents in italy were using scarves when going shopping since the start, knwoing really well that there was no guarantee that it would protect them but also couldn't hurt
 

Zefah

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depending on the specific things they said, yeah it could have been stupid on their part, not being american can't say what they specifically said at what point in time, i can tell you that my parents in italy were using scarves when going shopping since the start, knwoing really well that there was no guarantee that it would protect them but also couldn't hurt
That's good to hear about your parents. The problem started with recommendations from the World Health Organization, though.

I'm not an expert on viruses and disease, but maybe it's because I followed the Japanese coverage of COVID-19 since mid-January that I knew early on droplet infection was a thing and we've known forever that face coverings are basically harmless to the user and go a long way to help prevent droplet infection when coughing, speaking, or sneezing.

For the utmost "experts" in the world to have got it so incredibly wrong and seemingly know less about this specific issue than a nobody like me, is just absurd. It's beyond belief and shakes your faith in said institutions.

I'm glad to hear that Italy did not follow the WHO's advice in this situation. Please do remember the context in which social media were cracking down on "misinformation" with WHO recommendations forming the basis for what they considered to be true.
 
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cryptoadam

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sure it was because of that and not because you can't cure covid patients from afar.
So they decided to sacrifice the population basically. Fauci testified that he said not to wear masks, because he wanted the people who "really needed it" to have them. So the general population according to him didn't "really need masks". So the rest of us weren't important enough to needs masks 4 months ago.

nah, just a stubborn idiot
I have seen a lot worse than stubborn idiot being thrown at people.
what part of "there were not enogh mask to cover the spike of request" is hard to understand?
Manufacturer don't have a millions of masks reserve for when a pandemic happens.
Hell european countries were stealing masks and ventilators shipment from each other, that's how rare those were compared to how many we needed.
So just tell people to make homemade masks. Everyone has a Tshirt and pair of scissors. Poof not hard to come up with masks. And Asian countries and nordic countries had the same issue and all of them wore masks from day 1.

Leadership freaked out and decided that its better to let the virus spread so doctors can have masks. Instead of telling us to make homemade masks, they thought better to just not push masks at all so we don't get another TP situation. Imagine if experts came out and said we need to save TP for doctors, so don't wipe your ass. Don't even use soap and water because you won't wipe your ass properly just don't wipe it all. Thats basically what happened.

good for you?

stupidity should be shamed.
Well I am glad I don't live where you live. Most people don't wear masks up here and our virus is pretty much gone and no one is shaming or Karening people who don't wear masks. Went and got a pizza yesterday and saw 3 people none with masks and I didn't start filming them and giving them shit for not wearing their masks.


it was said from day one, together with the fact that we didn't have enough for everyone and we had to prioritise those who had to stay close to the infected as their daily job.
if rocks start falling from the sky, the world doesn't have enough hemets for 6 billion people, and if you have to chose who gets it and who doesn't those without a roof on their head (either because don't have one or becuse they can't stay home) would be the first to get one.
Like I said above, they could of had us make home made masks, and Asian and Nordic countries promoted mask wearing even during this shortage. But yes they wanted doctors to have them and let the rest of us spread the virus around. A better stratgey would be to stop the spread of the virus with home made masks, and also let doctors use PPE as well.



one part of the population can do two things to limit exposure, social distancing and masks.
another part can only use masks because social distancing is not doable since they have to interact with infected on a daily basis and in close environments.

one million dollar question, who should get the masks?
So then why so much shaming and hoopla about masks? If one part of the population could do something 4 months ago why the massive change all of a sudden now? 4 months ago we could of reduced the virus by 80% by all adopting masks. That would of been a much wiser decision.

I am not the one LTTP on masks, made a thread months ago about how masks can reduce 80% of the virus. Its the other way around where the leaders are LTTP. We should have be wearing masks from day 1, but instead we were told not to because us pleebs didn't really need it.
 

Majukun

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So they decided to sacrifice the population basically. Fauci testified that he said not to wear masks, because he wanted the people who "really needed it" to have them. So the general population according to him didn't "really need masks". So the rest of us weren't important enough to needs masks 4 months ago.

Leadership freaked out and decided that its better to let the virus spread so doctors can have masks. Instead of telling us to make homemade masks, they thought better to just not push masks at all so we don't get another TP situation. Imagine if experts came out and said we need to save TP for doctors, so don't wipe your ass. Don't even use soap and water because you won't wipe your ass properly just don't wipe it all. Thats basically what happened.
no, they decided to protect the part of the population that was more at risk of contracting the virus, it's really that simple.
also, who cures covid patients or operate medic machines when all the doctors and nurses are out because of covid when you did not protect the only people that could not avoid close contact with covid infected?


So just tell people to make homemade masks. Everyone has a Tshirt and pair of scissors. Poof not hard to come up with masks. And Asian countries and nordic countries had the same issue and all of them wore masks from day 1.
for all the mask part just refers to my other posts in this page, really not much i can add to that.





Well I am glad I don't live where you live. Most people don't wear masks up here and our virus is pretty much gone and no one is shaming or Karening people who don't wear masks. Went and got a pizza yesterday and saw 3 people none with masks and I didn't start filming them and giving them shit for not wearing their masks.
exactly, you live in a country where the virus is pretty much gone.
the US are not that country ATM, the virus is still spreading and pretty much not contained at all, that's a pretty huge difference if you ask me.




Like I said above, they could of had us make home made masks, and Asian and Nordic countries promoted mask wearing even during this shortage. But yes they wanted doctors to have them and let the rest of us spread the virus around. A better stratgey would be to stop the spread of the virus with home made masks, and also let doctors use PPE as well.
not sure how leaving professional made mask to the doctors and nurses and not having you make homemade masks at home (can only say it did not happen at all in europe) are connected though, one doesn't influence the other in any way, shape or form.





So then why so much shaming and hoopla about masks? If one part of the population could do something 4 months ago why the massive change all of a sudden now? 4 months ago we could of reduced the virus by 80% by all adopting masks. That would of been a much wiser decision.
for months ago we didn't have enough professional mae masks for everyone and we didn't knew if cloth home made masks wee actually doing anything against covid.
but yeah if we did know 4 months ago as much as we know today about the virus, we could have made more informed decisions, go figure.

I am not the one LTTP on masks, made a thread months ago about how masks can reduce 80% of the virus. Its the other way around where the leaders are LTTP. We should have be wearing masks from day 1, but instead we were told not to because us pleebs didn't really need it.
i'm not canadian and not american, but i never heard "leaders" say to not make your own masks, just to leave the surgical and n95 professional made masks to the , well, professional for obvious reasons.
if they indeed said to not dare made your own mask at home and or punished someone from using a mask, then yeah, it was stupid, but i have no memory of such news regarding states or canada 4 months ago.
 
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Majukun

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That's good to hear about your parents. The problem started with recommendations from the World Health Organization, though.

I'm not an expert on viruses and disease, but maybe it's because I followed the Japanese coverage of COVID-19 since mid-January that I knew early on droplet infection was a thing and we've known forever that face coverings are basically harmless to the user and go a long way to help prevent droplet infection when coughing, speaking, or sneezing.

For the utmost "experts" in the world to have got it so incredibly wrong and seemingly know less about this specific issue than a nobody like me, is just absurd. It's beyond belief and shakes your faith in said institutions.

I'm glad to hear that Italy did not follow the WHO's advice in this situation. Please do remember the context in which social media were cracking down on "misinformation" with WHO recommendations forming the basis for what they considered to be true.
again, never heard from the WHo to not even atttempt to cover your face.
only heard about "leave the n95 and surgical masks to the health care employees", when such guidelines were released exactly?
 

cryptoadam

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no, they decided to protect the part of the population that was more at risk of contracting the virus, it's really that simple.
also, who cures covid patients or operate medic machines when all the doctors and nurses are out because of covid when you did not protect the only people that could not avoid close contact with covid infected?
So we agree, the decision was made to let the virus run to protect doctors. Your justification is there wasn't enough masks and doctors cure covid. regular people didn't need masks.

Scientifically today nothing has changed. Doctors are more at risk today as they were in the past. Doctors cure covid patients the same as they did in the past.

We agree we are saying the same thing. You are just justifying the leaders who gave this bad advice.


for all the mask part just refers to my other posts in this page, really not much i can add to that.







exactly, you live in a country where the virus is pretty much gone.
the US are not that country ATM, the virus is still spreading and pretty much not contained at all, that's a pretty huge difference if you ask me.

Where I lived through out the whole virus I never saw more than 10-20% people with masks, and probably like 5% of young people. Mask wearers were generally Asian or older. The virus just disappeared regardless of our mask policy here. And we had leaders who at the beginning of the crisis told us not to wear masks.

Now I agree I think everyone should wear masks, said this months ago. I just don't like the politicization of the mask issue nor how the experts treated masks at first, and how the karens flipped a complete 180 because TV man told them to.


not sure how leaving professional made mask to the doctors and nurses and not having you make homemade masks at home (can only say it did not happen at all in europe) are connected though, one doesn't influence the other in any way, shape or form.

for months ago we didn't have enough professional mae masks for everyone and we didn't knew if cloth home made masks wee actually doing anything against covid.
but yeah if we did know 4 months ago as much as we know today about the virus, we could have made more informed decisions, go figure.
Asian countries have known for years masks prevent aerosol virusus. South Korea was telling us to wear masks.


Dated March 17th.

We did know 4 months ago. And this Doctor says what you and everyone else is saying, there was a choice made for doctors to have them, but we still could of been told to wore home made masks.

i'm not canadian and not american, but i never heard "leaders" say to not make your own masks, just to leave the surgical and n95 professional made masks to the , well, professional for obvious reasons.
if they indeed said to not dare made your own mask at home and or punished someone from using a mask, then yeah, it was stupid, but i have no memory of such news regarding states or canada 4 months ago.

"The current recommendations regarding masks are that if you yourself are sick with fever and cough, you can wear a surgical mask to prevent transmission to other people. If you are healthy, there is not thought to be any additional benefit to wearing a mask yourself because the mask is not airtight and does not necessarily prevent breathing in of these viral particles, which are very tiny," says Dr. Nipunie Rajapakse, a Mayo Clinic infectious diseases specialist.

“I am often asked if people should wear a mask all day. The answer is that the mask is not a means of preventing infection in the community. It is reserved for care. If you want to protect yourself, it’s not the mask that matters. Wash your hands instead," he said.

The majority of studies have not demonstrated benefit in cluster randomized controlled trials evaluating the effect of members of the general public wearing masks in non-healthcare settings to prevent the acquisition of viral respiratory infections.
 Public mask wearing is potentially beneficial as source control when worn by a person with respiratory symptoms when exposure to public spaces is unavoidable and physical distancing is not possible (e.g. traveling for medical care). The role in preventing spread from asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic individuals is unknown, but theoretical.
 There is variability in the effectiveness of homemade and cloth masks. Several studies have found that they provide inferior protection against droplet and aerosol particles compared to surgical masks and N95 respirators.
 If masks are not used appropriately, and not combined with meticulous hand hygiene, there is a theoretical risk of increased infection risk through self-contamination.
 Recommending indiscriminate public wearing of medical masks may result in additional critical shortages of masks needed to protect front-line healthcare workers, and any potential benefits of mask wearing are likely less impactful than physical distancing and hand hygiene.


Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada’s chief public heath officer, maintained in a press conference Monday that while face masks can cut down on the spread of the coronavirus when worn by someone already infected, it does little for healthy individuals.

Wearing a face mask, she added, can even have some averse affects, including giving people a “false sense of confidence” and increasing opportunities to touch their faces when adjusting or taking masks off.


WHO
If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected SARS-CoV-2 infection.

USA
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention does not recommend that people who are well wear a face mask (including respirators) to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19.

US Surgeon General urged people on Twitter to stop buying face masks.

UK
Face masks play a very important role in places such as hospitals, but there is very little evidence of widespread benefit for members of the public.

Germany
There is not enough evidence to prove that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduces a healthy person's risk of becoming infected
while wearing it. According to WHO, wearing a mask in situations where it is not recommended to do so can create a false sense of security because it might lead to neglecting fundamental hygiene measures, such as proper hand hygiene.


There you go. All of this quoted from a few months ago, where leaders were basically telling us masks have no benefits unless you work in a hospital.

The use of masks was downlplayed when they were needed the most and could of put a hurting on the virus. Now there is an over correction where we are all supposed to memory hole what these leaders said a few months ago. And why? Well because Trump doesn't like masks and he had a rally where people didn't wear masks. OTOH some protesters did wear masks so they need to be promoted as the silver bullet so no one can blame CV spikes on the protests.

Everyone should wear masks to reduce the spread. Just wish that this would of been adopted months ago.

Here is the thread I made 7 weeks ago


Look at Asian and Nordic countries like Denmark that adopted mask wearing at the beginning of the crisis.

American's are LTTP on this mask policy, and with all the flip flopping and politicization of masks its now become a divisive issue when it should of been a simple straight forward thing from day 1.
 
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Celcius

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Sigh I’m so tired of Covid-19. Not only the part about people getting sick, dying, or being hospitalized, but also the impact on everyday life. I wear a mask everywhere I go (doesn’t bother me at all, plus I know the importance) and follow all the recommendations like social distancing, but I miss going to the movies, going on vacations and road trips, seeing coworkers, family, and friends in person, going to church, not having the electronics I want be sold out everywhere, not having shipping times be affected, being able to eat inside restaurants, going inside places instead of doing curbside pickup, being able to attend relatives’ funerals in person, not being paranoid about what I touch, and just life before in general I guess. I don’t see things changing any time soon and I certainly don’t plan to be one of the first people to use a potentially rushed and under tested vaccine as soon as it becomes available. Not to mention being stressed about hoping I don’t actually get the virus myself (or anyone I know). Just venting I guess... 2020 has been a rough year.
 

Petey-o

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I can definitely see why people would be confused about masks considering several countries have been going back and forth on it (mostly due to shortages). That said; I still don't get the people who act like having to wear a mask to get their fruit loops is some infringements on their rights. Get a grip.
 

Zefah

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again, never heard from the WHo to not even atttempt to cover your face.
only heard about "leave the n95 and surgical masks to the health care employees", when such guidelines were released exactly?
If you read that CNN article I first linked, you would have seen it...


"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program.





The message could not have been clearer. Do not wear a mask unless you have symptoms. The idea of using face coverings to stop droplet infection was not being discussed in the west (or at least the English speaking world) at all.
 
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dionysus

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I am most familiar with Texas so I will use that for perspective.

Texas had 28 deaths today. The average age of a Texas positive test is in the 30s (or it could be hospitalizations, I read it but didn't bookmark the source). For perspective NYC had 589 deaths in one day at its peak. Now daily deaths will probably rise in the future, we are about 2 weeks from the start of the ramp of hospitalizations. So far we are about 2.5x the non-ramp COVID hospitalization, so I would predict given current hospitalizations we may see a 75-90 deaths a day in a week or two.

To reach just NYC peak death rate we would probably need hospitalizations to go up by a factor of 7 -10x. I am pretty confident we won't get there because exponential growths are unsustainable in the real world, and Texas is not nearly as dense as NYC, even comparing metro area to metro area. People on their own will also change their behavior with or without government enforcement. Already office workers in Texas have moved back to WFH again for example. Mask usage is back at the majority as well from my anecdotal observations.

And no, I don't think this spike is avoidable. Economies have to open up, we can't kill productivity and ramp up government printing and debt indefinitely, that is a recipe for government collapse and anarchy. All the places that claim great success so far, this will eventually happen to them assuming they arent completely rural.

The Sweden model will be the right one in the end, to continue to lockdown every time there is a flare up just prolongs the pain.
 

cryptoadam

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Texas has had a consistent 20-30 7 day rolling average. I don't think they will double/triple that even with the increase now. I also have a feeling a lot of the tests are asympotmatic of mild cases, since testing isn't being prioritized like during the NYC day where it was only really people who had a whole shit ton of symptoms and tons of people were being turned away.

But we will see, the deaths will come has been going for a week or so but so far nothing, but the next 10 days or so will tell.

I think that treatments have gotten better, use of vents got better, leaders arent sending seniors to their deaths as well.

But there is still some fear stuff going on with stories about lung damage and immunity being short lived in asymptomatic people. But everything has been wrong and reversed so I am starting to tune things out. Just wear a mask wash my hands limit my circle of contacts and take my vitamins and hope to get through this.
 
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DragoonKain

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I have a procedure scheduled for next week. Think I should push it back with the spikes? I was thinking about it, but then again I was also thinking if we are supposed to get a fall resurgence, then there might be no point.

I assume they are gonna take precautions, it’s just a medical center is like the place I least wanna be in the world right now.