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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Cuomo states daily he’s thankful for the president and the administration’s assistance to facilitate all of NYC’s efforts and that the administration has been quick and responsive. So I don’t get the shit slinging. And ad someone who lives in NYC... I find it all very impressive how infrastructure and rules were put into effect; even if I am concerned about the police state growing...

New York numbers are high but it also seems that the state has done a better job than most in facilitating testing.

NYC is the central commerce and travel hub of the entire fucking planet... having the most cases should surprise no one. The moment it appeared in Wuhan ... it was in Manhattan 24hrs later.

New Yorkers getting another 600$ on top of the trump dollars from the state... who will then be reimbursed by the government at a later time....

Maybe it was that press conference where screamed that someone would have to choose which 26,000 New Yorkers would die since he only initially got offered 400 ventilators when he requested 30,000 (yes, his math was that fucked). Meanwhile he's got closer to 4,600 people total in intensive care right now nearing the peak.
 
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No, the CSV source file contains data only up through Week 11 (ending on March 15th) for 2020. You can type in the URL and check for yourself.

Anyway, it looks like the reduced pneumonia death numbers may just be due to a lag in reporting that happens every year and isn't out of the ordinary at all



If this is true, then shame on Tucker for reporting that without further research.



Thereitis.gif
 
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holygeesus

Banned
I think people are enjoying using the New York numbers as proof that everyone is going to die. Then they say what happened in New York will happen everywhere, when New York is 100% unique in the US.

I'm pretty sure people realise why New York is being hit, and it has nothing to do with any politics or criticisms of governors or mayors or anyone else. If you look at the list of population density for incorporated places in the USA, a majority of the top 20 are in NY.


Wedge a lot of people into a confined space and this shit will spread fast, as it is doing. This is of course why other cities are faring better. No other city will be hit like NYC (and areas in Jersey to a lesser extent) in the USA but that doesn't make it any less dire a situation for the whole country.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
Maybe it was that press conference where screamed that someone would have to choose which 26,000 New Yorkers would die since he only initially got offered 400 ventilators when he requested 30,000 (yes, his math was that fucked). Meanwhile he's got closer to 4,600 people total in intensive care right now nearing the peak.

He kept saying he needed 40,000 ventilators. Over and over. He was like Hans Gruber crying about his detonators.
 

oatmeal

Banned
Seeing all my friends online saying Trump is STEALING supplies and selling them on the market to make money.

What is the truth to this story? Because I know the retarded bullshit they're saying isn't true.
 

lukilladog

Member
Is it not true? The WHO criticized the China travel ban. Almost every nation around the world had a slow response because of the initial recommendations coming out of the WHO.

But you have to wonder, WHO reported an outbreak of a new virus, reported about international travelers moving out of Wuhan, and also reported they were still learning about this new virus, all in January 9. Whatever fucking government that knows that viruses are the biggest threat to humanity on the modern world should have catched those travelers and put them under strict quarantine... WHO recommendations about the travelers should have been ignored plain and simple, you can´t expect foreign organizations to take care of you.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
But you have to wonder, WHO reported an outbreak of a new virus, reported about international travelers moving out of Wuhan, and also reported they were still learning about this new virus, all in January 9. Whatever fucking government that knows that viruses are the biggest threat to humanity on the modern world should have catched those travelers and put them under strict quarantine... WHO recommendations about the travelers should have been ignored plain and simple, you can´t expect foreign organizations to take care of you.

Considering basically no one alive has experienced a pandemic and the WHO was set up as an International organization for the well being of the world to catch shit like this and sound the alarms, it's hard to blame most governments in my opinion, but you're right that we probably shouldn't expect foreign or international organizations to act in our best interests, so lesson learned, I suppose.
 
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Kagey K

Banned
Well the bright side is that industrial dance will take the place of pop and regueton music...

CharmingParchedDutchshepherddog-small.gif
I personally will welcome the industrial resurgence, and angst music that is going to come out of this.

Kids were too comfortable staying home watching YouTube’s and TikToks instead of going outside. Now that they are told they have to stay home and watch Youtube and Tiktok, they are upset about it.
 

lukilladog

Member
Considering basically no one alive has experienced a pandemic and the WHO was set up as an International organization for the well being of the world to catch shit like this and sound the alarms, it's hard to blame most governments in my opinion, but you're right that we probably shouldn't expect foreign or international organizations to act in our best interests, so lesson learned, I suppose.

There have been epidemiologists warning Us for decades now. Also, from January 2019 Worldwide threat assessment of US intelligence community:

Global Health

We assess that the United States and the world will remain vulnerable to the next flu pandemic or largescale outbreak of a contagious disease that could lead to massive rates of death and disability, severely affect the world economy, strain international resources, and increase calls on the United States for support.


Politicians need to do their homework man, and this tragedy better produces a change.
 
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sinnergy

Member
There have been epidemiologists warning Us for decades now. Also, from January 2019 Worldwide threat assessment of US intelligence community:

Global Health

We assess that the United States and the world will remain vulnerable to the next flu pandemic or largescale outbreak of a contagious disease that could lead to massive rates of death and disability, severely affect the world economy, strain international resources, and increase calls on the United States for support.


Politicians need to do their homework man, and this tragedy better produces a change.
You can blame them, they are leaders and need to be holistic. Almost all governments failed miserably, all caught up in business as usual and money grabbing and other insignificant shit .. it’s time for change .
 

sinnergy

Member
us hasn't really failed tho, far as i can tell

the slower start was deliberate, a good road map with high(er) precision and accuracy takes time
No, if they started in January it all would look different .. They could have known , because China was already going down the drain, but choose to ignore instead, like most of the west.

Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.

What now happens in New York is a result of not doing your job months ago.
 
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Just a reminder who Canada voted in as the leader through our challenge of covid.


The dude is ripe for mocking most of the time but I would take Canada and Trudeau's response to this situation over Trump and America's response anyday of the week. We are doing quite well up here in many ways. Infection rates, death rates and societal benefits (CERB, boosts to gst payments, baby bonus payments, EI etc) are all much better.

So basically what I'm saying is I'll cut Trudeau (and Doug Ford) some slack for now, it could be much worse.
 

Sign

Member
The dude is ripe for mocking most of the time but I would take Canada and Trudeau's response to this situation over Trump and America's response anyday of the week. We are doing quite well up here in many ways. Infection rates, death rates and societal benefits (CERB, boosts to gst payments, baby bonus payments, EI etc) are all much better.

So basically what I'm saying is I'll cut Trudeau (and Doug Ford) some slack for now, it could be much worse.
Trump and America's response has been fine.
 

eot

Banned
NY resident u/madfrogurt documenting their experience.
("code blue" is medical jargon for when a patient suddenly needs immediate intervention to survive, for example a heart attack or complete respiratory failure)

Part 5&6

Day 11
“…unless it’s ’visibly soiled.’ Like we could see Corona.”

I’ve been known to flirt with the LD50 of caffeine, but this morning I’m slipping it some tongue.
I’m status post two pieces of 100mg caffeine gum and a cup of coffee by 6:30AM. I hit 70 on the back roads heading towards the hospital in the minutes just after sunrise. There are practically no other cars around. My AirPods stream Andrew W.K.’s “Ready to Die.” A tasteless choice, sure, but it fits the energy of the day so far.
The 73M with multiple comorbidities who developed an NSTEMI, and who tested positive for COVID 4 days after testing negative has steadily been declining in the SICU. He’s refusing his medications despite his seasoned ICU nurse using the full spectrum of asking, demanding, and sternly admonishing him on his nonadherence. She even broke out the fake tears, she told me. She doesn’t do that for everyone. But no dice.
More importantly he’s doing poorly on a nonrebreather (NRB). If he takes the mask off, his sats drop to the 70s, a value you might guess correctly to be incompatible with life. He’s a little altered and he’s been put on dilaudid and a wrist restraint. Just the one, a CVA left the left arm safely useless.
One of the interns asks me what the plan was for our patient here.
“Palliative has a Goals of Care meeting with his family today. Our only plan is to keep him alive long enough for them to sign the DNI/DNR.”
I can blame the caffeine, I can justify it by saying his prognosis was dire and it’s reasonable to think we did all we could, but I scare myself a little with how low my empathy’s dimmer switch is set.
But I don’t know how else to deal with this. The recommended treatment guidelines changed, yet again. Azithromycin is now actively counter-indicted for COVID patients. We take him off it. Steroids, which as of yesterday were counter-indicated for COVID are now the standard of treatment for all patients on NRB. We start him on Solu-Medrol 1.5mg/kg divided BID. For all the good that will do.
He’s also well past the 5 days of Plaquenil / hydroxychloroquine. You know, that drug that was supposed to solve this whole crisis?
We all remember that right? I’ve got photographic proof we used to believe it would work.
Take a look at the March 17th (or Day -5, if you’d like) National Enquirer cover:
CORONAVIRUS
CURES
FINALLY
FOUND!

Warning! Surgical masks SPREAD INFECTION!
Take a look at every single intubated patient’s medical orders and you’ll see they either completed or are on Plaquenil and azithromycin.
And people still think we have any handle on this other than jamming tubes down throats and waiting.
No one will believe the history of this thing when it’s over.
The patient passed that afternoon.
His daughters had signed a DNI/DNR right before.

I’m reminded of an intro Stephen King wrote for one of his books, where he writes about fear:
"The shape is there, and most of us come to realize what it is sooner or later: it is the shape of a body under a sheet. All our fears add up to one great fear, all our fears are part of that great fear - an arm, a leg, a finger, an ear. We're afraid of the body under the sheet. It's our body.

And [the writer] takes your hand and he enfolds it in his own and he takes you into the room and he puts your hands on the shape under the sheet… and he tells you to touch it here… here… and
here…"
A quarter million Americans (at least) are going to become bodies under sheets in the span of one or two months. And we’re talking about returning to work and a “miracle” ending to this in nine days.
Wake up and feel the corpses.
(PS: Yes, I owe Stephen King a royalty check given how much I crib his writing style.)


Day 12
“I will continue using military metaphors. We are at war with this virus.”

The greetings this morning were grim.
“Stay safe” has become the aloha of intra-Resident conversations. I heard that twice before reaching the front doors of the hospital by 6:50AM.
“How was the night?” is the standard greeting to the two Residents just finishing their 12 hour Night Float shift. These are the two young MDs left to put out fires across half the hospital’s two hundred or so non-ICU beds.
“We had the longest Code ever. Took an hour. We went through maybe 20 epi’s.”
Epinephrine is only given to people with either pulseless electrical activity or those who are asystolic – flatliners. (Once again, Hollywood has lied to you. You don’t put the paddles on anyone with a monitor next to them going BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP.) The ACLS guidelines say you push epi every 3-5 minutes.
The Ok, We Tried alarm should have gone off about 3-4 epi’s in. Not 20.
“Was it a young guy?” “No, It was John.”
I curse a little louder than I mean to. I walk out of the room and wash my hands even though I’m sure I hadn’t touched anything.
John is- was a nurse at my hospital. He was maybe in his early 50s. Every Resident loved him because he was tough and always fought for his patients. He was a nice guy and a pleasure to work with. But he was fierce. He’d seek us out during Rounds, stare us down and make sure we put in orders for his patients ASAP. We all respected him.
I knew he was on a vent as of the night before with settings that looked, well, dire, but it’s still a shock.
The night team leaves. I start mindlessly updating the cheat sheet summary of our 16 patients. I’m on autopilot at this point. 13 are COVID cases. COVID cases are, unfortunately, very easy to manage. You put in orders for medications that you’re pretty sure don’t work, you note how bad their oxygen saturation is on nasal cannula (NC) or nonrebreather (NRB), and you gown up and see the worst cases / people you think might need to be intubated in the near future.
The first Rapid Response comes at 7:40AM. I reach the door (of course it’s a COVID room, that’s all we have left) and realize I left my N95 at home. I’m not entering that room. I flippantly tell the interns to assess the situation and head to pick up a new mask at the Command Center.
The nice nursing admin lady hands me a paper bag with a new N95. She tells me to sign for it in the binder just outside the door. Despite my autopilot brain, I joke, “Oh we’re on the honor system? You know I’m just going to sign ‘John Smith’ in the binder right?” She laughs and says it’s ok I left my N95 at home.
I take my mask and sign John Smith in the binder.
Just because I’m in shock doesn’t mean I can pass up a joke like that.
I head back up to the Rapid. I get a debrief that this was narrow complex ventricular tachycardia in the 200s. They pushed metoprolol (wrong decision) and adenosine (right decision). I go talk to the very bright and hardworking intern on my team. I explain that in situations like this where the patient is otherwise hemodynamically stable, metoprolol isn’t going to do enough to slow the heart rate. You’ve got to reset the circuit breaker. I asked who the attending was in the room.
There was no attending. The intern had to make the call.
I left my interns to the wolves when I walked off in a huff to go get a new mask.
My autopilot brain goes over how shitty I am of a senior Resident. When YOU were an intern, at least your seniors never walked away from a Rapid.
As I walk back to the call room to barricade myself behind a door for an hour or so, I come upon a nurses meeting where the news of John’s passing was being announced. I honestly don’t remember a single word of it. I do remember the occasional sobs coming from these amazing women.
Then there’s a Rapid and a COVID is intubated.
Table Rounds.
Then there’s a Rapid and a COVID is intubated.
I’m getting good at assessing whether or not a hypoxic COVID patient will get tubed and if we have time to get them upstairs before they crash.
Go me.

“The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places.”
I worry that some of my fellow Residents will break in the near-future.
It wouldn’t be a big break, just a small one that makes you sob on the way to work and dread every new day. For what it’s worst, so long as no one gets sick, I don’t think I’ll break. A few of us are close though.
It‘s the Night Float’s birthday today. Which means she technically coded John for 60 minutes on her birthday in the pre-dawn hours. When she tells me this, we tell social distancing to go fuck itself and hug for a while. I offer to take her shift and work a 24, but she declines.
The possibility, the comfort of breaking feels like it’s hiding just over the horizon waiting for us.
It’s what follows that Hemmingway quote which worries me.
“But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.”
John never broke.
He was good, and gentle and brave. And he was killed.


Day 13
“Where do you want dad to die? Paralyzed on a ventilator or not?”

Quiet day. Got time to take stock of everything.
The hospital is housing somewhere around 250 patients including the regular floors and the Empire of the ICU, >90% positive COVID. My team’s census for tomorrow is 100% COVID. There’s talk about transferring the few remaining COVID-negatives to the USNS Comfort.
Oh, and yesterday some moron tried to crash a train into the USNC Mercy on the West coast. Because we’re dumb, panicky animals.
45 COVID cases on vents with a dozen or so vents available. A little over 60 people currently on nonrebreathers.
We're still 5 days from peak hospitalizations and 6 days from peak fatalities per day.
Personally, I think I’m holding up as well as I can. Writing has helped. Occasionally get some exercise in. Plan on going for a long walk tonight.
I’ve got 6 more days of scheduled inpatient care left. Two weeks of vacation after that. I’m thinking about signing up to do COVID swabbing since it pays well and I’d go nuts if I weren’t doing something.
I still hate the idea of treating this as a war, but I’m thinking about volunteering to be “redeployed” to another hospital elsewhere in the States once New York gets past this. The rest of the country is only a week or so behind. New fronts are opening up. I’m pretty well experienced in managing COVID cases at this point.

Feels like I’m living in the time between a flash of lightning and the roll of thunder.

Day 14
“Alright we’re done.”

I wonder when we’ll need a refrigerated corpse truck trailer.
Before my shift officially starts, at 6:50AM, a Code Blue is called. 90F w/ dementia and probably a long list of other comorbidities is found essentially cold and dead when the day shift nurse first walks in the room at the beginning of her shift.
Because mankind is cruel and irrational, this lady whose last real conscious thought occurred several years to a decade ago is still Full Code. So half a dozen nurses and four doctors all gown up and rush into her room to break her ribs before she's officially pronounced dead.
Because we're doing everything to save her, don't you see.
I swear to Christ I'm not this heartless when I'm the outpatient Family Med doctor I was supposed to be.
By the time I find a gown (a lovely, blue plastic trash bag of a gown which makes me sweat profusely and leaves my back slick with sweat and my gloves full of sweat and I pray we get those breathable yellow paper gowns again) then put on my eye protection and gloves and enter the room, the attending is already calling it quits.
The anesthesiologist asks if this patient (this corpse) needs intubation.
“If you want to intubate her that’s fine. If you want to put yourself through it.”
One push of epi.
There's no blood pressure, pulse was gone well before we got to work.
Time of death… who knows.
Does it matter?

I come back to my call room and look at the census. 22 patients, 100% COVID.
I scroll a third the way down the cheat sheet and see EXPIRED. At this point that just means alerting the attending of more paperwork to be done.
I round on all my patients. They're all miserable, can't catch their breath and have headaches. A very nice lady asks that if she and her husband are in the hospital, should her 90 year old mother who lives with them be afraid? The truth is if you flip a coin she's already infected. If she's symptomatic and needs to go to the hospital, she's got a good 1 in 5 chance of dying.
I neglect to tell her those odds. I tell my patient to call her mom, and that she should report any symptoms to her regular PCP.
Then there’s a Rapid and a COVID is intubated.
He was a younger guy, only in his 60s. He's got a chance.
Then table rounds.
Then there’s a Rapid and a COVID… isn't intubated.
88M w/ dementia plus many other things. He'd never make it off the tube.
We're here now. We're running low on beds and ventilators and the Tough Decisions are being made.
The guidelines the dictates of the Gods of the Empire of the ICU as of a few days ago were a patient could only be intubated if they were A) satting <90%, B) tachypneic >30RR, and C) prone when these were taken.
Now we're adding on if they've lived a life well into their 80s or if they've got dementia or if through "clinical judgement" you know they're hosed, then they won't be tubed.
It makes total sense.
I've had a few calls now where I've gone through the pre-written script for letting the typical patient's spouse of decades and decades know their world is about to end. How that soul they've nuzzled up against for comfort is close to depart since death is inevitable.
"Not a candidate for invasive intervention" is the exact phrase.
Rationing? Cold calculation in an unprecedented time of suffering?
Truthfully, I'm thankful I’m not making these decisions.


Day 15
“I don’t know how sustainable this is.”
How do you feel about being a hero?
“I don’t feel like a hero. I just feel tired and I don’t want to be here.”

TROOP 147LOVESYOU
You ROCK!!!
You are amazing!

How do you feel about being a hero?
“Meh.”

Doctors
are heroes
God Bless
all the doctors

How do you feel about being a hero?
<Rolls eyes> “It feels great. I know not all superheroes wear capes, some wear scrubs but I’d like a cape to use as a blanket.”

Dear Doctors and Nurses,
Thank you so much for
helping us because of
the virus. It means a lot.
Thank you for risking your
lives to help us and others.


How do you feel about being a hero?
“Treat me as a human being. And maybe pay me more.”

Thank you
for takeing
care of
people at
this challe-
ging time


How do you feel about being a hero?
“You’re asking, seriously? We’re doing our jobs. We signed up for this. But I guess people need something to rally around.”


Day 16
“Basically they wanted me to lie to the family. Say ‘we did everything we could.’ But we didn’t.”

This is when things start getting bad.
Did I feel it when I walked in today? The shift in the air?
One of our patients, a lady in her 80s, has been steadily degrading, gasping for air on a nonrebreather for close to two weeks. Palliative was brought on board yesterday.
Palliative calls the patient’s husband. It’s documented right there in the chart: “Pt has living will expressing no aggressive measures including CPR and Intubation however her husband appointed HCP does not want to place limits. Call placed to pt's husband for follow up. He is unwilling to talk further than ‘I want my wife home.’”
Overnight, the patient remained febrile, 102.7F despite Tylenol and cold packs. Hypotensive, 50/20s. Agonal breathing. It’s a sight you won’t forget after you’ve seen it. The clinical definition is disturbing enough: “…characterized by gasping, labored breathing, accompanied by strange vocalizations and myoclonus.” ICU evaluates her and says she’s not a candidate for pressers, intubation, or CPR. But still, no DNI/DNR order is placed.
The Night Float calls the patient’s husband. He remains adamant that he “wants everything done.” Night Float is essentially told by the Emissary of the ICU to not even enter the room should she Code, then call up the husband and reassure him we tried our best.
There’s a piece of me that empathizes with the patient’s husband. He’s been married to her for who knows how long. He was probably terrified, in denial, and isolated.
But a bigger piece of me thinks he’s a fucking monster for extending his wife’s suffering explicitly against her prior wishes.
At 09:19, we get a call that she has stopped breathing. Code Blue goes off.
The nurse at the door says something about how she knows it’s futile but she didn’t feel right not calling the Code. Because FULL CODE and DOING EVERYTHING TO SAVE THEM is sacred. Or it was. Or something. I don’t know anymore.
I tell everyone the plan. “Two people and two people only in the room.” I point at my interns. “Stay outside.”
I put on my gown and gloves. Did I put on the stylish lab glasses I wear around my collar as an apocalyptic-chic fashion statement? No, I remember now. I kept my regular glasses on instead. Because a good 30 seconds into breaking this woman’s ribs someone else entered the room and put a plastic shield over my face.
But before that I asked for a backboard under the patient. She was wide eyed and dead but I still asked for it.
And before that I pointed at the clock and said, “In five minutes, at 9:26, we’re stopping the Code.”
I’m pretty sure I felt ribs pop in succession like a zipper when I started compressions.
I think it was only two or three minutes into the Code before the intensivist walked into the room. He asked the patient’s age (82) and if she had dementia (she did) and after learning so told us to stop immediately.
Time of death… who knows.
Does it matter?

I leave the room without making eye contact with anyone. I try to remain cognizant of my hands and the right way to take off my PPE without buying a metaphorical scratcher ticket for the slight chance of intubation or death.
My poker face must suck because I’m asked three times in a walk of 300 feet if I’m ok. (Not even poker face. It’s all covered with a mask. My eyes are giving me away.) A nurse, the Chief Medical Officer of the entire hospital, and the Medical Director of the entire hospital. They all ask if I’m ok. I’m not, but I lie.
I tell the truth to my patients and I lie to my colleagues and bosses.
The nurse who called the Code in the first place asks me if I’m ok as I’m walking out of (fleeing from) the unit. “Thank you, doctor. Thank you.” I can’t summon any words to respond. Thank me for what? is the only thought I have.
The Chief Medical Officer stops me and asks me if I’m ok tells me we’re going to have a meeting sometime today to discuss end of life issues.
The Medical Director asks me if I’m ok and sees right through me. He does his best to boost my morale.
He knows I’m a big fan of the food being offered to the Heroes of the Hospital (I assure you I bitterly laughed while writing that) and insists I go get some food. I half-heartedly say I had a piece of a donated heart-shaped Danish earlier, but he goes out of his way to physically walk me over to the Command Center where some breakfast burritos were delivered.
I appreciate this gesture so much. I’m just a little ashamed he had to spend time on me when he’s dealing with quite literal life and death decisions on an hourly basis.
I soft coded a patient and got a breakfast burrito for the trouble.
Go me.
I soft coded a patient.
I was protecting my team and the nurses and it didn’t matter if we put on pacer pads not or if we even tried epi and she was dead when I walked in the room.
Just please forgive me.
 

llien

Member


Sleeping while China showed what would happen in January

So this morning I watched BBC interviewing Italian PM.

Journalist: when it was just starting in Lombardy, haven't Chinese authorities called you and warned you need to lock down?
PM: yeah.
Journalist: and instead you didn't do anything, went downplaying the threat, claiming that overreaction is "worse than the pandemic itself" etc?
PM: well, I wouldn't change a damn thing in how we acted really. (as in, no no, I've done no mistakes)
Journalist: how, on planet earth?!?!?
PM: well, you know, something something, commies are better on lock downs, something something, freedom freedom, can't tell your citizens to stay home.

So even at this point with police stopping and fining people they spot on the streets, this old fucking song of "we can't lock down" is still used as excuse.


Meanwhile, finance ministers of 19 EU countries, members of Eurozone failed to agree on financial aid. To my understanding it went like "can't we just print money and have them" coming from most, and mainly Netherlands and a bit Germany pushing "WTF, you need to return them one day", countered by "but what about solidarity".
 

Wwg1wga

Member
"Why hasn't Obama endorsed Biden? He must know something you don't know... I know... But you don't know."








The most surprising part of the Times story though is how Obama has on multiple occasions tried to dissuade Biden from running for president. First, in 2016, Obama pressured Biden to sit out the race because he believed Hillary Clinton was the best shot at continuing his legacy. Even though that didn't pan out for Obama, he still tried to talk Biden out of running in 2020.

The Times also reports that in March, Obama summoned Biden's top campaign advisers, Anita Dunn and Kate Bedingfield, to his Washington office. Multiple sources confirmed to the Times that the ex-president warned the advisers to make sure that Biden doesn't "embarrass himself" or "damage his legacy."

 
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eot

Banned
The NPCs running this thread and their models don't want you to ask such questions or show such pictures, you tinfoil hat wearing nutjob. Go back to sleep.
If you took the time to actually read the thread you'd see that it has been addressed with facts and not snark.
 

Alx

Member
Meanwhile, finance ministers of 19 EU countries, members of Eurozone failed to agree on financial aid. To my understanding it went like "can't we just print money and have them" coming from most, and mainly Netherlands and a bit Germany pushing "WTF, you need to return them one day", countered by "but what about solidarity".

If that's how it's reported in Germany, it's no surprise it's met with hostility by the population, and by way of consequence by the German minister.
The discussion isn't about "printing money" since members don't have that ability. The suggestion from a large group of members is to have a centralized funding of economic measures to fight the incoming crisis. The "corona bonds" are about "let's borrow money as EU and not as individual members, so we can have better rates", which Germany and Netherland refuse.
 
S

Steve.1981

Unconfirmed Member
Thanks for pointing it out again. I don't know what the hell I was missing last time, but you're right: it's right there on the page. I was looking at the GOV-UK deaths reported on the day vs. the ONS deaths initially reported on the same day. The ONS deaths were later updated with more accurate numbers a few days later, and when comparing those updated ONS numbers to the originally reported GOV-UK numbers, you get the 70% increase.

926 cumulative deaths as of March 27th reported by GOV-UK (reported on March 27th) vs 1,568 cumulative deaths as of March 27th reported by ONS (reported on April 1st) = 69% increase.

Apologies for the confusion and aggressive attitude towards you.

I still don't understand this shit.

I just now went on the ONS website again & it still says the same thing I quoted a couple of days ago. In the 3 weeks up to March 27th, 647 deaths related to Covid-19 in England & Wales. Updated on April 7th, apparently.

What am I missing here? Is there another page on the site where you've seen different numbers & if so, what the hell?! That's confusing & misleading & my head hurts.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
If you took the time to actually read the thread you'd see that it has been addressed with facts and not snark.

NPC quote: "965 deaths yesterday. Today 964 deaths. The lockdown works. Look at the curve. The curve will save us. Look at our facts."

The facts are now a lie. Are we even over the annual flu death count yet? What about the pneumonia graph as per above? What about vaccines for flu that don't even work?

The public will start to see it and we'll go back to normal. The globalist elite lost this one already. Celebrities are starting to share the real facts which will give the working person faith in common sense and stand up to the lying media.

The real crisis here is human worry, enforced by the MSM. Worry and the virus are two different things, we are worried when we shouldn't be. I'm bored of GAF's thread of model sharing, it's BS.

Find faith, find truth. I'm sure I'll get banned for not believing in your facts. As I predicted before, coronavirus denial is actually a punishable thing on social media. And it is whatever they say it is on that day. Thought control. That's the disease. This is the reality of the coronavirus - fake news perpetuated by good well-meaning folk like you I assume eot eot and the MSM.
 
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pr0cs

Member
I would take Canada and Trudeau's response to this situation over Trump and America's response anyday of the week.
Truedope lucked out more than anything, he 'governs' a country with a fraction of the population for the most part significantly dispersed throughout a very large landmass.
The people in Canada are used to, this time of year, being stuck indoors for a large portion of the day due to weather (effectively social distancing by nature). Trudeau had it easy, especially considering his initial idiotic notion that somehow closing the borders here was racist.
Like most things Trudeau did the least possible but luck favored him this time.
 
Trump and America's response has been fine.

tenor.gif


That...that is a joke right? Haha. Even just speaking on a "taking care of its citizens financially" point America has failed. That one time $1200 check will sure be handy next month when the bills keep rolling in eh? This is before getting into the rest of the response thus far.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
tenor.gif


That...that is a joke right? Haha. Even just speaking on a "taking care of its citizens financially" point America has failed. That one time $1200 check will sure be handy next month when the bills keep rolling in eh? This is before getting into the rest of the response thus far.

It's not just $1200, it is the $1200 ($1,676 CAD) and an extra $600 ($838 CAD) per pay period for those unemployed (which will need the $1200 per your point). Those employed still, the $1200 is bonus money or "rainy day" money essentially.

They are also putting together a second stimulus for next month, and hopefully it's not as poison pilled, but already hearing of some unnecessary BS being added.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
tenor.gif


That...that is a joke right? Haha. Even just speaking on a "taking care of its citizens financially" point America has failed. That one time $1200 check will sure be handy next month when the bills keep rolling in eh? This is before getting into the rest of the response thus far.

What did you want him to do? Declare martial law, suspend the constitution, and weld people in their homes? You want a civil war? That's how you get a civil war.
 

BigBooper

Member
Could this virus have been manufactured by the socialists? Because they've made some huge gains in perverting public thought about government in a short time.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Truedope lucked out more than anything, he 'governs' a country with a fraction of the population for the most part significantly dispersed throughout a very large landmass.
The people in Canada are used to, this time of year, being stuck indoors for a large portion of the day due to weather (effectively social distancing by nature). Trudeau had it easy, especially considering his initial idiotic notion that somehow closing the borders here was racist.
Like most things Trudeau did the least possible but luck favored him this time.

And he has some competent leadership at the provincial level. I dont really think its on Trudeau that BC and Alberta have such low cases.

And I put the slowdown in Quebec on Legaults shoulders more than Trudeau. Same with our testing. Its why i think we in Quebec have done more test then Ontario even though we are a smaller province both in population and financial importance.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Could this virus have been manufactured by the socialists? Because they've made some huge gains in perverting public thought about government in a short time.

No, but they're using it to try to push their socialist dreamworld into being a reality. Hell they've publicly ADMITTED to that on camera:
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Could this virus have been manufactured by the socialists? Because they've made some huge gains in perverting public thought about government in a short time.

Their main "revolutionary" (Sanders) just got denied once again, even worse than 2106. So they don't have as much of an influence for everyday people as the vocal minority online likes to shape the internet opinion.
 
Their main "revolutionary" (Sanders) just got denied once again, even worse than 2106. So they don't have as much of an influence for everyday people as the vocal minority online likes to shape the internet opinion.
The funniest part of this season was when they smeared the actual revolutionary (Gabbard) as a Russian agent, the other revolutionary (Yang) became a CNN shill, and in a grand gesture to "fight the establishment" they went with the multi-millionaire who sits in Congress accomplishing nothing, looking grumpy.
 
What did you want him to do? Declare martial law, suspend the constitution, and weld people in their homes? You want a civil war? That's how you get a civil war.

Why would people declare martial law over being taken care of financially? Why would the constitution be suspended because people are taken care of financially? Having the government take of its citizens financially, to keep the economy going among many other reasons, would cause civil war?

Come on man. I know you are trump groupie but you can't honestly think the American governments response has been superior to Canada's can you?
 
It's not just $1200, it is the $1200 ($1,676 CAD) and an extra $600 ($838 CAD) per pay period for those unemployed (which will need the $1200 per your point). Those employed still, the $1200 is bonus money or "rainy day" money essentially.

They are also putting together a second stimulus for next month, and hopefully it's not as poison pilled, but already hearing of some unnecessary BS being added.

Well if there is one thing we can all agree on, there will be a so called "poison pill" and unneccessary bullshit north and south of the border. Nothing is free, and I imagine the Canadian government has some dirt going on too.
 
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