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Could Final Fantasy XIII itself be made a trilogy *Possible Spoilers*

The overall "world" of XIII was amazing... but I chalk that up to good scenario design + concept art... the actual story shown through the game and the immediate society of cocoon was comparatively simplistic.

Himuro said:
Maybe you read the datalog. I didn't read one lick. Show me, don't tell me.
You did miss 80% of the "world building" then.

Not that you should be expected to read a book in the middle of the game.... (maybe if the game was much better).

It was similar to FFVIII: there was actually a massive backstory only detailed in the menu.
 
Shalashaska161 said:
That was really the major problem with the world. There was no consistency or flow to the world at all. They all felt so separate from each other like you were exploring worlds out of a Mario game or something.

And without being able to jump.
 
Himuro said:
The concept of a bunch of people who are fated to destroy the world and are the bad guys is great. But you're on the run for so long, and only from random boring grunts. The concept is great.

World concept, not story concept.
 
ULTROS! said:
Is the game gonna be a corridor?

- No, this is one way SE could right the wrong's here. Everyone knows the game had some major flaws, why not address them in a positive way?


DarknessTear said:
Things done right:

Graphics
Music
Voice acting
English lip flappage in CG scenes
Battle System

Fail:
Everything else.
I wouldn't mind a sequel if they made the world bigger. I think most people are butthurt by how linear it is and the lack of towns. The funny thing about FF games is that they're all generally linear anyway. When you go to a town, nobody has anything important to say, and what's the first place you go to when you go to a town in a FF game? I think most of us have the same answer. We go to buy weapons and armor.
I don't really talk to the townspeople often because it's not like Earthbound. People don't have funny shit to say, or even interesting shit to say.


ElFly said:
FF13 had one of the most interesting worlds in the FF series, but the plot simply skimmed most of it, and wasn't up to the setting. I'd like another game in the same universe (not in the same "theme" like Versus. Literal same universe).

However, I don't like the idea of going back to the same characters. If they could make a game set in the post FF13 universe, with different characters, I'd be interested.
No prequels please, though.


I'll respond to these two together:
The world of Pulse was really, straight "awesomeness." The wide open concept of the world is one of the things that is missing throughout the rest of the game. There are diverse areas of Pulse that can be expanded on, such Oerba (which is technically a "town" btw, lolz) or even more of Valis Media and it's branch areas. They could make a new story as a carry on from the previous installment, make it fresh and interesting and completely right the wrongs they did from FFXIII. They can expand on characters that we barely saw (someone mentioned Snow's crew, which would be cool) and even introduce new characters. Nobody said they have to only use the same exact characters; Maybe Snow and Hope team up to continue Snow's promise, etc.. I do agree, maybe a prequil wouldn't work, but definately a follow-up...
 
Himuro said:
The concept of a bunch of people who are fated to destroy the world and are the bad guys is great. But you're on the run for so long, and only from random boring grunts. The concept is great.

Plus the game brings up stuff like genocide and divided political factions, but completely ignores them because Hope has daddy issues and Lightning needs to mention her brooding past.

The cast lacks any idea of what they want until the final chapters and even then only settle on "wing it and hope for the best".

The characters just seemed to fall into parts of the story with no adequate explanation.
 
Shalashaska161 said:
That was really the major problem with the world. There was no consistency or flow to the world at all. They all felt so separate from each other like you were exploring worlds out of a Mario game or something.

What?! Rly?! lol? The only time the world didnt seemlessley go together was perhaps the trips to pulse abd back and stepping into that paradoxial (if thats the right term) chamber close to end game. Otherwise It flowed well.

Upper level edge of cocoon, fall to crystallized ground of cocoon, walk through crystal to glorious inner sanctuary chamber. Nothing out of the ordinary or as stiff and rigid as Mario's set worlds.

The hate for FFXIII is pretty steep in here, some of you seem like you would have rather flushed your 3 Jackson's down that there toilet than have played it.
 
Himuro said:
But in 8 they cover a lot of the backstory without the need of the datalog, for the most part. FF13's details rely on it.
True.

I actually defend the concept of the datalog.... sometimes the details of a world should be discoverable without having every detail revealed in a cutscene or expository dialogue. I liked the idea of "researching" a world that I was adventuring through.

But XIII was ultimately not a very good story... so I'm not defending the way it worked there since it really was a "crutch" to lean a bad plot on.
 
Dedication Through Light said:
What?! Rly?! lol? The only time the world didnt seemlessley go together was perhaps the trips to pulse abd back and stepping into that paradoxial (if thats the right term) chamber close to end game. Otherwise It flowed well.

Hey look, a convenient ruin next to lake Bresha that someone left an abandoned yet fully functional airship in, neato.

Sazh and Vanille go from a junk yard, to a rain forest, to an area that looks just like the junk yard but isn't, and then randomly stumble on to a port that takes them to Nautilus.

Lightning and Hope go from the same junk yard to a robot forest that serves no purpose that just happens to leave them on a beach across from Hope's home town.
 
They could use your saved game from FFXIII to influence the sequel. For example if you kill Wrex on Cocoon the Krogans won't like you and in part 3 they won't help against the Reapers.
 
Himuro said:
The concept of a world that relies on fal'cie for power in conceptually interesting, but primitive to me. When you say "world concept" what exactly are you implying?

The whole sci-fi skyworld thing. You can tell from the structures and overall world design that Nojima put A LOT of thought into the concept and mythology. However, he did not write the scenario and so it ended with someone unfamiliar with the world's creation fleshing it out.
 
Honestly, I think Square needs to get a familiar cast of characters/specific world to focus the series on. Build up fanbases for the plot/setting as opposed to a fanbase for the name.
 
Fimbulvetr said:
Hey look, a convenient ruin next to lake Bresha that someone left an abandoned yet fully functional airship in, neato.

Sazh and Vanille go from a junk yard, to a rain forest, to an area that looks just like the junk yard but isn't, and then randomly stumble on to a port that takes them to Nautilus.

Lightning and Hope go from the same junk yard to a robot forest that serves no purpose that just happens to leave them on a beach across from Hope's home town.

Okay Ill admit that the rain forest was just the most random and unexplained locale, but its to be forgiven, it had the best music at least.
 
Dedication Through Light said:
What?! Rly?! lol? The only time the world didnt seemlessley go together was perhaps the trips to pulse abd back and stepping into that paradoxial (if thats the right term) chamber close to end game. Otherwise It flowed well.

Upper level edge of cocoon, fall to crystallized ground of cocoon, walk through crystal to glorious inner sanctuary chamber. Nothing out of the ordinary or as stiff and rigid as Mario's set worlds.

The hate for FFXIII is pretty steep in here, some of you seem like you would have rather flushed your 3 Jackson's down that there toilet than have played it.
Many people have probably read the Tim Rogers review of FFXIII. It's Tim Rogers, so it's a little insane... but he did seem to capture the feeling that XIII was a bunch of art assets strung together into a "game"

Tim Rogers said:
We’re ninety-percent certain that these characters all started as completely unsolicited sketches. Tetsuya Nomura drew up a character, and went, “Yeah, here’s a character”, and gave it to his assistant. His assistant took the sketch to the character modelers. “Who is this?” the 3D artist asked. “What’s his job? What’s his motivation? How tall is he, about? Do we have a drawing of what the back of his outfit looks like? Does he have a name?” The assistant delivered these questions to Mr. Nomura, who was in the middle of ironing his favorite (and only) T-shirt (the one with a gothic crucifix and maybe fourteen-thousand words of gibberish script all over it (oh god, someone make him a T-shirt out of the text of this review!)), and thus buck-naked from the waist up. Covering his man-boobies in shame, he heard the question and then promptly fired his assistant and hired another random member from his fan community on Mixi. Maybe a week later, he told his new assistant, “Oh, yeah, this guy isn’t one of the heroes; he’s just, like a guy”. “This guy, though”, the missive continued, four days later, “he might be a main character”.

A recent story on Kotaku.com supports our hypothesis. You don’t have to click: we’ll explain it. A producer of Final Fantasy XIII explains that there was “enough discarded content” from Final Fantasy XIII to make a whole other game. The “content” in question is mainly levels — game-play areas. That’s a real, huge red flag, right there. Seeing as the “levels” or “areas” in Final Fantasy XIII are first and foremost venues for monsters to appear, and seeing as how monsters are selected for how niftily they clash against the background graphics — seeing as how the majority of the minor in-game cut-scene dialogue consists of main characters discussing things no more detailed than “What are we going to do?” “We have to survive.” “We have to fight.” “We have to fight . . . them.” it’s quite pitifully obvious that none of the scripted dialogue or level events had anything to do with the player characters’ current location.

This is the kind of thing that we, as a marketing / PR person, always tell game companies to never, ever, ever say in interviews. Like, there’s enough levels to make another game? That means that they spent huge amounts of time making levels that they weren’t going to use. That’s because (believe us on this one) the overall arc / scope of the story wasn’t fixed early enough in the development: the areas that were eventually actualized as levels by artists (judging by our complete playthrough of the game, we’re going to say there weren’t actually any “level designers”) were originally conceived by checklists drawn up during regularly scheduled brainstorming meetings. “Fire level”, “Ice level”, et cetera.

Seeing as most of the levels in the finished game lack any kind of sense of common sense, or even one-word-summaryable background art gimmicks, we can surmise that the artists themselves were in charge of thinking of the “themes” for the backgrounds, and then actualizing them via a series of rough drafts and object asset requests.

In short: they had no idea what the game was about. Tetsuya Nomura designed characters, some other artists designed some other characters, some other artists still designed huge amounts of enemy-like robot-ish machine-things, some other artists flung together lavish architecture inspired by lifetimes of playing Final Fantasy VII and longing desperately to work on a Final Fantasy game — though, of course, if they did, they’d do something kind of different. Then someone came in and was like “btw dudes, the game is about this”. Then someone was like, “Oh, i guess we don’t need that dinosaur island part, or that part on the moon.” Owning up to “enough cut-out levels to make another game” is pretty much admitting “yeah, we lacked focus from the very start; we had close to no idea what we were doing.”
 
The datalogs don't have that much information.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Datalog/Locales

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Datalog/The_Fal'Cie

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Datalog/Cocoon_Society

I think most of the tell-don't-show info here is about Bismarck, Kujata, Phoenix and what Orphan's Cradle really is.

Places like the Fifth Ark, Oerba and Taejin Tower are left unexplained both in the game and the datalogs.

Now, the datalogs do contain some poems about the origin of the world, but they aren't that informative anyway, and IIRC Vanille reads one in the end of the Oerba chapter.
 
ElFly said:
The datalogs don't have that much information.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Datalog/Locales

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Datalog/The_Fal'Cie

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Datalog/Cocoon_Society

I think most of the tell-don't-show info here is about Bismarck, Kujata, Phoenix and what Orphan's Cradle really is.

Places like the Fifth Ark, Oerba and Taejin Tower are left unexplained both in the game and the datalogs.

Now, the datalogs do contain some poems about the origin of the world, but they aren't that informative anyway, and IIRC Vanille reads one in the end of the Oerba chapter.
The datalogs did explain the nature of Fal Cie, L'Cie, Cocoon etc... and while you could figure those things out from the cutscenes, I wouldn't be surprised if moments of understanding came 20-30 hours into the game... instead of in the first 10 minutes when you can check the datalog.

There was a big divide between the players who said "L'Cie? Cieth? this is nonsense!" as they marched through the game, and those who read the datalog right away.
 
BocoDragon said:
The datalogs did explain the nature of Fal Cie, L'Cie, Cocoon etc... and while you could figure those things out from the cutscenes, I wouldn't be surprised if moments of understanding came 20-30 hours into the game... instead of in the first 10 minutes when you can check the datalog.

There was a big divide between the players who said "L'Cie? Cieth? this is nonsense!" as they marched through the game, and those who read the datalog right away.

It's pretty clear what the Fal'Cie and L'Cie are. Gods and their human puppets. This should be super clear by the end of chapter 1. It's not a hard concept, and the game conveys it well. Even if you go to the subtlety that the Fal'Cie are not real gods, and may even be machines, the game shows you that (the encounter with the Anima Fal'Cie briefly shows you all the gears that Anima was made of).

The real problem is that the naming of the Fal'Cie and L'Cie is retarded as hell. As in, the words were poorly choosen. Maybe they are easier to distinguish in japanese? I get both words confused with each other all the time. I doubt the Datalog helped with that, unless people went to check which one was a god to the datalog everytime they mentioned it in a cutscene.


I think that the main detail I missed by not reading the datalogs was related to Phoenix. I didn't realize that the sun of cocoon was a fal'cie, and that it was inside cocoon itself. But that was my own fault, as the game shows you an horizon that curves the wrong way in the cutscenes that take place in the beach.
 
BocoDragon said:
The datalogs did explain the nature of Fal Cie, L'Cie, Cocoon etc... and while you could figure those things out from the cutscenes, I wouldn't be surprised if moments of understanding came 20-30 hours into the game... instead of in the first 10 minutes when you can check the datalog.

There was a big divide between the players who said "L'Cie? Cieth? this is nonsense!" as they marched through the game, and those who read the datalog right away.

Is it really that hard to understand? Everything I read in the datalog was stuff I already knew and that was by chapter 2.
 
Himuro said:
Well, it throws you in the game without any explanation. Most of us in this thread read up on the game and its terms before it was released, so of course we knew what Fal'cie and L'cie were.

Yeah, I really wondered after release if I would understand any of it if I weren't over analyzing every magazine scan before the game came out.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
Is it really that hard to understand? Everything I read in the datalog was stuff I already knew and that was by chapter 2.

Definitely.

The constantly evolving data log, the constant refresher of what happened during the sessions to load a save file, as well as general dialogue, should have been more than enough for people to distinguish the fal'cie, l'cie, etc conundrum presented in the game. I think revieweres exaggerated a bit, the reviewers on Amazon didnt seem to think it was that confusing or an difficult issue to grasp

20 - 30 hours into the game? lol. Not to be mean or anything, but I think the game made it pretty clear what they were pretty early on, if one missed it then they were just playing the game for the gorgeous visuals and battle system.
 
Himuro said:
Well, it throws you in the game without any explanation. Most of us in this thread read up on the game and its terms before it was released, so of course we knew what Fal'cie and L'cie were.

Ah, didn't even think of that. We were all a big part of the pre-release drama.
 
i have mixed feelings about FFXIII, i enjoyed it for the most part but the first 20 hrs was so boring.....if they made it open from the get go it would of made the game so much better.

Id be ok with more of the story.
 
I don't think I knew that much about the game before playing it. I had heard somethings, but I went into it expecting cocoon and pulse to be two parallel universes, and that the parties would first physically meet towards the end. It's not that far from what actually happens (without the parallel universes) but shows that you can understand the game without the datalogs/previous knowledge.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
Is it really that hard to understand? Everything I read in the datalog was stuff I already knew and that was by chapter 2.
Well, I understood it mostly from cutscenes.... but there was this common complaint that the whole "L'Cie" thing was complicated nonsense. Personally I found it pretty simple... but additionally, it was elaborated on in large in-game encyclopedia that IMO was required reading for players. If someone is confused, it is in some way their fault for not pursuing that information.

But, more than most FF games, they did offload a lot of exposition to the datalog. FFX, for example, took the opportunity to tell us everything about the world by making the character an outsider.

XIII just dropped us in media res, and didn't bother to explain its terms. "Lightning and Sazh are on their way to find some magic something-something... " You can probably figure them out just by playing, but if you pop open that datalog, you can spare yourself the guessing game.

Personally I think this approach is just fine. Perhaps I would emphasize the role of the datalog more: "This datalog contains core story content!". In movies, they often say "show me, don't tell me"... but videogames are not short, visual, linear stories for whom words are an inconvenience. In a game where we are expected to spend a lot of time in menus looking at numbers anyway, I think it makes fine sense to offload backstory to an in-game encyclopedia. It's better than cramming talky exposition into cutscenes or showing us everything about the history of the world through an FMV.
 
The entire earth said:
2sFUl.jpg

.
 
Nah the older FF games were fine. They just dropped the ball with XIII. A datalog is a nice addition, but it shouldn't contain anything essential.
 
zoukka said:
Nah the older FF games were fine. They just dropped the ball with XIII. A datalog is a nice addition, but it shouldn't contain anything essential.

It doesn't contain anything essential.
 
zoukka said:
Nah the older FF games were fine. They just dropped the ball with XIII. A datalog is a nice addition, but it shouldn't contain anything essential.
Well I agree.

I liked in VIII where the datalog was mostly to elaborate on trivia about the world... such as how Dollet was a former empire, how the world uses underground HD cables to communicate since radio waves became jammed, and the origin myth of the world created by the Great Hyne, the first sorceress.
 
BocoDragon said:
Well I agree.

I liked in VIII where the datalog was mostly to elaborate on trivia about the world... such as how Dollet was a former empire, how the world uses underground HD cables to communicate since radio waves became jammed, and the origin myth of the world created by the Great Hyne, the first sorceress.


Interesting stuff, however, do you think a sequel would be a better way to elaborate on the story and make it more whole, using the Gran Pulse world?
 
Cornbread78 said:
Interesting stuff, however, do you think a sequel would be a better way to elaborate on the story and make it more whole, using the Gran Pulse world?

I'd rather have a new story. No amount of additions could change the bad writing that already exists.
 
Fimbulvetr said:
I'd rather have a new story. No amount of additions could change the bad writing that already exists.


True, but they could still use Gran Pulse as the backdrop for the story, use the existing characters (sparingly if story warrents it) and introduce new characters into the fold.
 
Just make a new game. Preferably with an artstyle simple enough to bring the towns back and cut on the production times. Final Fantasy IX CGI level character models would be easy stuff today D:
 
The second option the OP mentioned would be the easiest as SE could repurpose a lot of assets from XIII, add some new areas, I'd sign up. Despite its flaws I liked XIII and one of the things I liked about X-2 was revisiting the areas and seeing how they changed. A XIII would be probably more interesting, but you would have more leway for a direct XIII sequel. I'm guessing we'll never see XV on this set of consoles so I think SE should go for it.
 
CryingWolf said:
I did not find the world or characters of 13 interesting in any way. Can we please go back to Ivalice? :(

My favorite thing about XIII is that it totally redeemed XII. Vaan and Penelo laugh at you and your XIII misery. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 
truly101 said:
My favorite thing about XIII is that it totally redeemed XII. Vaan and Penelo laugh at you and your XIII misery. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Considering the Paradigm Shift system is so much better than FFXII's Gambits, I'm not sure where you got this idea. It's... well, totally the reverse.
 
ZephyrFate said:
Considering the Paradigm Shift system is so much better than FFXII's Gambits, I'm not sure where you got this idea. It's... well, totally the reverse.

I'm refering to more the hatred of the plot and characters of the two games. Outside of a few turn-based obsessed Asperger's syndrome sufferers, most people seemed to like the gambit and paradigm systems in terms of combat. I did.
 
DarknessTear said:
Don't bother mentioning FF13 on GAF. You're just going to get a ton of hate and no real responses. :x

Cant expect people to type out their detailed reasons for why the game is a piece of shit in every thread. Go to the OT for those.
 
truly101 said:
I'm refering to more the hatred of the plot and characters of the two games. Outside of a few turn-based obsessed Asperger's syndrome sufferers, most people seemed to like the gambit and paradigm systems in terms of combat. I did.

I would agree with this, especially with replaying xii after finishing xiii it made me appreciate xii oh so much more and gambits are awesome, damn you haters.

(also hope still>>>>>than Vaan, infact everyone except snow>>>vaan)
 
KaYotiX said:
i have mixed feelings about FFXIII, i enjoyed it for the most part but the first 20 hrs was so boring.....if they made it open from the get go it would of made the game so much better.

Id be ok with more of the story.

I prefered the first 20 hours than the last TBH
 
FFXIII is probably the worst main FF game I've ever played. I hope they'll leave it alone so it can rot away.
 
ZephyrFate said:
Considering the Paradigm Shift system is so much better than FFXII's Gambits, I'm not sure where you got this idea. It's... well, totally the reverse.

Yeah, having a control only over what type of actions your characters will have is totally better than having complete control over the actions of your characters.

AI in FF13 was shit, just like the rest of the game.
 
Skilletor said:
Yeah, having a control only over what type of actions your characters will have is totally better than having complete control over the actions of your characters.

AI in FF13 was shit, just like the rest of the game.
Hahaha, I had absolutely no issues with FFXIII's AI. It only fails if you completely fail at playing the game.

And yes, I prefer having control over one character's actions than entire control over a group of robots.
 
Skilletor said:
Yeah, having a control only over what type of actions your characters will have is totally better than having complete control over the actions of your characters.

AI in FF13 was shit, just like the rest of the game.

Unless they went for a true old retro style turn based game than there is no way that would have worked for the game.

I thought it was the best system possible for single control blended turn based action, a huge improvement over FFXII (And yes I did play through 25 hours of FFXII before realizing it plays itself) Now if FFXIII had went the route of the battle systems employed in Star Ocean and Tales of...hopefully its pursued for future FF games cause that would be awesome.
 
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