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Could someone explain the Cloud thing for Xbox One?

Painraze said:
The funny part about this whole thing is IF... IF... cloud processing actually becomes a thing, there is nothing from stopping PS4 or PC from doing it too. This bullet point is pure smoke and mirrors.
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This could be said about so many aspects of either console. But if MS are doing it, and Sony currently aren't, then of course they're going to come out and make a fuss about it. It's one more thing they have -- in the meantime -- to hold over a competitor.
 
Painraze said:
I get it, you bought into the marketing... but trust me this would be totally possible on other systems.
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sure it's possible... if they were dedicated to the idea and put their money where their mouth ts like MS has already done

they said that LIVE will go form 15k to 300k servers online THIS year.

it's not that easy
 
Painraze said:
The funny part about this whole thing is IF... IF... cloud processing actually becomes a thing, there is nothing from stopping PS4 or PC from doing it too. This bullet point is pure smoke and mirrors.
Click to expand...

I'd say Sony's purchase of Gakai (sp?) spells out they're laying the groundwork for something similar, but they obviously haven't been ready to share details about it. Why are we harping on Microsoft for being just as vague?
 
Kylehimself said:
This could be said about so many aspects of either console. But if MS are doing it, and Sony currently aren't, then of course they're going to come out and make a fuss about it. It's one more thing they have -- in the meantime -- to hold over a competitor.
Click to expand...

If 3rd parties are investing time and money into this technology it will get implemented across all systems. Sony invested in a company that has the ability to send you back streaming video of yourself playing on some faraway server. You don't think they have the ability to set this up too?

Contrary to what MS said, this isn't rocket science.
 
Painraze said:
I get it, you bought into the marketing... but trust me this would be totally possible on other systems.
Click to expand...

Its not the possibility

It's who does it right first

You can't just pretend Sony will flip a switch and say "we are cloud too"

No, it is learning from the start and evolving towards the needs, seeing what works and what doesn't

See: Microsoft absolutely shaming Sony on online for well over a decade, that's what earned them 20 million paying customers.
 
Apparently the Skype implementation isn't actually even working yet... so I think people's expectation of cloud computing are fanciful at best right now.
 
Klocker said:
300,000 servers spread across the globe to keep latency down dedicated to the system
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Any evidence these exists or are real hardware? Maybe they are just potential VMs running on much fewer computers.
 
Painraze said:
If 3rd parties are investing time and money into this technology it will get implemented across all systems. Sony invested in a company that has the ability to send you back streaming video of yourself playing on some faraway server. You don't think they have the ability to set this up too?

Contrary to what MS said, this isn't rocket science.
Click to expand...

Consider what MS said in the post-show with the Xbox engineers where they could run process-intensive algorithms in the cloud instead of taxing your system. There are many physics-based algorithms that need hundreds of thousands of servers to crunch data. The immediate game applications aren't apparent, but the technology may enable some dreamers to come up with something we haven't seen before.

IDK, Microsoft's Live bet was a good one and they've applied it in ways many initially thought would never catch on. I'm anxious to see what they deliver over the next few years.
 
What happens if your connection is spotty? If the local enemy AI depends on the Cloud to give it a brain, and you have some lag in connecting to the Cloud....We're going to see LAG in single-player games? Bots flying around changing position on the screen like how it is in multiplayer games NOW?

Oh man. I really do not like the direction they are going with this. Can't they just code the AI to work by itself? It may never be perfect but at least it will work even if your connection is inconsistent.

This whole 'make AI smarter with Cloud power' is a really stupid idea.
 
scytherage said:
What happens if your connection is spotty? If the local enemy AI depends on the Cloud to give it a brain, and you have some lag in connecting to the Cloud....We're going to see LAG in single-player games? Bots flying around changing position on the screen like how it is in multiplayer games NOW?

Oh man. I really do not like the direction they are going with this. Can't they just code the AI to work by itself? It may never be perfect but at least it will work even if your connection is inconsistent.

This whole 'make AI smarter with Cloud power' is a really stupid idea.
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No no no

See there's many types of AI

When an AI character gets close to you, the system takes over as it becomes latency/quality sensitive. So its more like the persistent world is at work but what you see is in limited scope

If there's lag, there is ways to reduce the amount of AI being sent, if feasible.

It's having two systems work together to get best result because on device isn't great for mass computing.

I won't expect grand scale uses yet, at least anything that can alter the quality of gameplay, more along the line of stuff that makes things more real feeling, more of an experience.

Later when FTTH becomes a reality for a good portion of the planet as ADSL/VDSL/SDSL go bye bye, this cloud computing will take off in a massive way
 
If MS aren't lying about the 300,000 server part.. I think that is the only ace they have. Maybe the secret sauce will be online gaming experiences (scope/players) that their competitors will not be able to achieve.

*grasps to find something positive out of this mess*
 
pestul said:
If MS aren't lying about the 300,000 server part.. I think that is the only ace they have. Maybe the secret sauce will be online gaming experiences (scope/players) that their competitors will not be able to achieve.

*grasps to find something positive out of this mess*
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If you're grasping, you're not looking hard enough
 
pestul said:
If MS aren't lying about the 300,000 server part.. I think that is the only ace they have. Maybe the secret sauce will be online gaming experiences (scope/players) that their competitors will not be able to achieve.

*grasps to find something positive out of this mess*
Click to expand...

They already have their data centers in place all over the world. I'm thinking they're just spinning up those server instances specific to Xbox Live.
 
ITT: People who have no idea what Azure is and what it's capable of making ignorant statements about its uses.

RE:
SquiddyCracker said:
It will not be used to enhance single-player games by using distant processors to render things in combination with the Xbone CPU&GPU.

The reason for that is simple: lag.
And the bad kind of lag, input lag. (as the cloud would have to take your every input into consideration, therefore beaming it over the internets to the server farms, do calculations, and beam it back before you see the results on your screen).
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Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Sony say Playstation 3 would use computing power from servers over the internet?
I am pretty sure they said something like that in the beginning. Around the same time they said they would have several Ethernet ports and all that jazz.
 
In theory, it could be used for persistent world building, with the cloud servers calculating the heavy, slowchanging data.

In practice, it's an excuse for always online DRM and nothing more, kinda like Diablo 3 and SimCity.
 
DopeyFish said:
No no no

See there's many types of AI

When an AI character gets close to you, the system takes over as it becomes latency/quality sensitive. So its more like the persistent world is at work but what you see is in limited scope

If there's lag, there is ways to reduce the amount of AI being sent, if feasible.

It's having two systems work together to get best result because on device isn't great for mass computing.

I won't expect grand scale uses yet, at least anything that can alter the quality of gameplay, more along the line of stuff that makes things more real feeling, more of an experience.

Later when FTTH becomes a reality for a good portion of the planet as ADSL/VDSL/SDSL go bye bye, this cloud computing will take off in a massive way
Click to expand...

In Minecraft terms that I can understand, so the cloud ensures that my crops grow and NPCs live their boring lives while I'm on the other side of the map? But if I lose internet connection I'll simply return to find nothing has changed since I was gone?
 
Sony said something similar about the ps3. "Your ps3 will connect to your cell-powered fridge or washing machine to increase computing power!" It was hilarious 7 years ago, and it's hilarious now.
 
there are a lot of gameplay features that could be sent to the cloud to handle. Latency shouldn't be that big of an issue. If you're using a central server to route the data, it can handle AI calculations and broadcast them out to players like normal. not a big deal.
 
You can't process rendering or physics or anything like that in the "cloud". It's too slow. When your talking less than a few milliseconds to figure out that a sword went through an apple and now the top of the apple should start falling, there's no way that could be done in the cloud.

Lets say a game runs at 30fps. Thats 1 frame every 33ms (more or less). Now go to speedtest.net and check out the ping value to your closest server. Chances are its greater than 33ms and usually more like 2 to 3 times that. So that means the response would at best 1 - 3 frames behind. That is why you can't process real game code in the cloud.

And even if you could, its a simple HTTP call which can be done on a PC, PS4, PS3, Xbox 360, the Wii, etc.
 
Complex server-side calculations, guys!

If you're saying that single-player games on Xbone could be played offline and you don't work at MS, then you literally don't know what you're talking about.
 
i'll just re-post what i wrote in another thread:

"also about this cloud thing, that ain't gonna do shit for rendering graphics or giving you better framerates. IF they seriously used it, it would just be data/code."
 
DopeyFish said:
You can simulate the AI of cities, do better speech recognition and have better possibilities for AI responses (even detection of inflection, etc) which would like frogman on crack. Also leads to large seamless worlds. Imagine an AI who is tracking you down, like an officer... And he has to go question people from the scene etc and starts gathering evidence.

They can calculate broad things that waste system resources like weather, water models, economic markets, crowd reactions.

Anything that essentially isn't latency sensitive
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Well, shit. That all sounds pretty cool. Is this actually all how it works in practice because with these examples I can see a future for this kind of thing in gaming.
 
People are so busy being cynical that they ignore the fact that the cloud stuff has been a part of Microsoft's business for awhile.
 
Klocker said:
some thoughts on B3D how it wil work and a discussion here

and MS engineers talking a bit about it here <<<< REMOVED was Xbox One Architecture Panel
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In a controlled environment I can see it, but I don't seeing it being practical.

What' they'd have to do is do some processing and then send scripts to run locally that'll represent those server side calculations.

I suppose they can have primary scripts and secondary AI that isn't required necessary. If it were something like an FPS... it wouldn't really work unless it were possibly something like Red Orchestra. Very large scale, slow paced.

RTS I can see working. Have the standard "Imma cumpooter" AI running, but have advanced "learning" AI's that teach different strategies to the client side.

Maybe in racing games it can learn common racing strategies? Like, download them every few weeks or days? Once again, these things are cool, but not as revolutionary as real time advanced AI's...
 
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