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[QSD]

They mutate due to biological pressures. In this case the vaccine would be the pressure. So in order to mutate in a way that would render the vaccines ineffective, the virus would have to encounter and infect vaccinated people. This is biology 101.

I've been thinking about this claim for a while now but can't really figure it

- if many are vaccinated this puts evolutionary pressure on the virus, the landscape is more hostile so any virus strain that manages to slip through will be more resilient
VS
- if many are vaccinated there is just far less of the virus making the rounds. Lower population means a lower chance of a resistant mutation appearing

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is huge if true…. But I haven’t seen anything that shows that “breakthroughs” and transmission from vaccinated people happen in any meaningful way.

As an example, their share of those who received "emergency care attention" in England has increased with each report and the fully vaccinated represented 13% (vs. 24% with 1 dose and 53% unvaccinated, with the remainder being of a status unknown). Over the last 4 reports this number has risen from 7% to 8% to 9% to 13% while the unvaccinated percentages have declined from 59% to 58% then 58% again, and now 53%.

We know that the fully vaccinated tend to see less severe reactions to infection than those who are unvaccinated or only have one dose, so their smaller numbers in terms of receiving emergency care should not be surprising, but the actual infection numbers are obviously going to be a lot higher.

As for other data, the stuff we're seeing come out of Israel, Gibraltar, Iceland, etc. while the absolute numbers are still very small, does indicate large proportions of fully vaccinated people succumbing to the disease, which would indicate that far more are being infected.

 

[adj83]

Well, the unvax can and will cause thwe virus to mutate even further.

Is there any scientific study/evidence of this claim? From what I recall from Biology, a change in the environment (where there is a change in the selection pressure) will drive evolution (like the birds on the Galapagos Islands that evolved to have longer beaks when they migrated to a different area where it was harder to get to food). The "environment" in unvaxed people hasn't changed but it has in the vaxed. So you'd expect new variants to evolve there because the virus can still survive in them but there is selection pressure being applied against the original COVID strain by the imperfect immunity? It has been a long, long time since learning biology though so I may be wrong.

 

[Raven117]

As an example, their share of those who received "emergency care attention" in England has increased with each report and the fully vaccinated represented 13% (vs. 24% with 1 dose and 53% unvaccinated, with the remainder being of a status unknown). Over the last 4 reports this number has risen from 7% to 8% to 9% to 13% while the unvaccinated percentages have declined from 59% to 58% then 58% again, and now 53%.

We know that the fully vaccinated tend to see less severe reactions to infection than those who are unvaccinated or only have one dose, so their smaller numbers in terms of receiving emergency care should not be surprising, but the actual infection numbers are obviously going to be a lot higher.

As for other data, the stuff we're seeing come out of Israel, Gibraltar, Iceland, etc. while the absolute numbers are still very small, does indicate large proportions of fully vaccinated people succumbing to the disease, which would indicate that far more are being infected.

Geesh. That is actually terrible news.

 

[DeepBreath87]

I've been thinking about this claim for a while now but can't really figure it

- if many are vaccinated this puts evolutionary pressure on the virus, the landscape is more hostile so any virus strain that manages to slip through will be more resilient
VS
- if many are vaccinated there is just far less of the virus making the rounds. Lower population means a lower chance of a resistant mutation appearing

Both are true. If it can, the virus will mutate in ways that allow it to succeed in spite of the vaccines. There are limits to evolution that may make it more difficult for the virus to successfully mutate that way. My understanding is that the spike protein, which the vaccines target, cannot mutate too much without becoming less efficient. So we will have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

take your pick and use yoiur brain. if unvaccinated people are pushing the numbers then THEY are the ones pushing the mutations. its not rocket science.

covid unvaccinated numbers - Google Search

www.google.com

"Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated"

"As Connecticut's COVID-19 numbers begin to tick upward again, ... overwhelming majority of patients they treat for COVID-19 are unvaccinated"

" Almost All U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Now in the Unvaccinated "

As Connecticut's numbers begin to tick upward? They are still pretty damn low... More importantly daily deaths have averaged 0 ~ 1 for over a month now.

For the US, you need to keep in mind that the CDC does not count mere infections are breakthrough cases. You need to be hospitalized or die. Certain municipalities are counting them anyway, but this really hurt the consistency of data in the US.

I am not claiming that there aren't more unvaccinated people requiring hospitalization or dying. It would be an absolute disaster scenario if that were the case and the vaccination program would need to be stopped immediately. With that said, there's really no strong evidence that the vaccinated do not get infected or spread the virus to others, especially with the Delta variant which is not probably over 90% of the cases in the US.

 

[DeepBreath87]

People should really stop freaking out. The UK data should make everyone feel better. They had a big spike of cases and a very very mild increase in hospitalizations and death. Case numbers there have already fallen by 25% in a week and are still dropping precipitously. Meanwhile, everything is open there. No restrictions. There is no reason to be shitting ourselves right now.

 

[jason10mm]

come on! viruses always mutate to be better viruses. the longer you give it to run wild the better (faster) it becomes at being a virus. Its biology 101 we learned in high school. unvaccinated people are allowing the virus to run wild as hard as it can go.

Sigh, poor Darwin must be rolling in his grave. This is not how natural selection works. Unvaccinated people who have never been exposed are like a flat plain of grass filled with immobile cows. The initial strain of covid was a kinda slow lion. But so long as the plain was full of immobile cows it had no reason to get better, the same slow lion will predominate because any mutation for speed, bigger jaws, or a higher jump had no advantage. Understand?

But with the vaccine the old slow lion was uncompetitive because that changed the landscape. Now there are hills and the cows aren't immobile anymore. The ENVIRONMENT changed, selecting for faster lions, or ones that can jump. This usually comes at the cost of some sort (for virii they often mutate to become less lethal but better spreaders as the successful strategy is to spread, not to kill their hosts) but in a new environment those costs are secondary to increased advantage.

NATURAL immunity, with various antibodies, t-cell immunity, etc is an environment far to difficult for any lion, thus the virus dies out almost completely. But these vaccines are not changing the environment enough, they are just weeding out some strains and others can proliferate. So we are now in a vaccine arms race to see if they can close off enough avenues for other strains to exploit.

Personally, I think the strategy should be for vaccinated people to be DELIBERATELY exposed to delta, since it doesn't seem to have significant consequences, and that will probably create a strong enough combined immunity to end covid for good. Otherwise we will just have to limp along until enough people have been exposed that natural immunity suffices and hope that prolonged vaccine "changed environment" exposure doesn't select for a covid lion that can now make the leap to the natural immunity environment.

Eventually we will probably get a fully validated vaccine that can be applied to everyone in a very short period of time and that may also change the environment fast enough that no mutant strain exists that can bridge it, though with global distribution of virus that will be very difficult to deploy.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

come on! viruses always mutate to be better viruses. the longer you give it to run wild the better (faster) it becomes at being a virus. Its biology 101 we learned in high school. unvaccinated people are allowing the virus to run wild as hard as it can go.

You must have went to clown school if that's what you learned.

Viruses evolve to become better at (select for) certain attributes. Like we're seeing with the Delta variant which appears to be far more transmissible but also far less pathogenic and lethal. What's an example of a virus that evolves to become better at everything while also maintaining a high degree of lethality? Humanity would have been wiped out long ago if that were true.

 

[RoboFu]

As Connecticut's numbers begin to tick upward? They are still pretty damn low... More importantly daily deaths have averaged 0 ~ 1 for over a month now.

For the US, you need to keep in mind that the CDC does not count mere infections are breakthrough cases. You need to be hospitalized or die. Certain municipalities are counting them anyway, but this really hurt the consistency of data in the US.

I am not claiming that there aren't more unvaccinated people requiring hospitalization or dying. It would be an absolute disaster scenario if that were the case and the vaccination program would need to be stopped immediately. With that said, there's really no strong evidence that the vaccinated do not get infected or spread the virus to others, especially with the Delta variant which is not probably over 90% of the cases in the US.

now show florida. Which is reporting 90 something percent of all hospitalizations are unvacinated people. even the posiitivity rate correlates with vaccinations in each age group the group with less vaccinations having more new cases.

The biggest issue I have is that there is a whole group of kids below 12 who are now at higher risk of contacting the virus because selfish morons do not want to get a vaccine because of "conspiracies". If it wasn't for my children being too young to get a vaccine I wouldnt care what you guys do. But because of people who wwont get the vaccine numbers are going up and places are starting to mandate masks again which means to visit those places my children have to wear masks again.

Vaccines are proven.. justt get a vaccine idiots!

 

[DeepBreath87]

now show florida. Which is reporting 90 something percent of all hospitalizations are unvacinated people. even the posiitivity rate correlates with vaccinations in each age group the group with less vaccinations having more new cases.

The biggest issue I have is that there is a whole group of kids below 12 who are now at higher risk of contacting the virus because selfish morons do not want to get a vaccine because of "conspiracies". If it wasn't for my children being too young to get a vaccine I wouldnt care what you guys do. But because of people who wwont get the vaccine numbers are going up and places are starting to mandating masks again which means to visit those places my children have to wear masks again.

Vaccines are proven.. justt get a vaccine idiots!

Your kids will be fine. This virus is essentially the same risk level as the flu to children, especially children under 12. There are around 75 million Americans under the age of 18. There have been fewer than 350 deaths in that age group over the last 18 months of the pandemic. So unless you’ve been pissing your pants about the flu, you don’t really need to be any more afraid of covid as it relates to your children.

 

[RoboFu]

Your kids will be fine. This virus is essentially the same risk level as the flu to children, especially children under 12. There are around 75 million Americans under the age of 18. There have been fewer than 350 deaths in that age group over the last 18 months of the pandemic. So unless you’ve been pissing your pants about the flu, you don’t really need to be any more afraid of covid as it relates to your children.

but why not jsut completely cut off the hosts supply by everyone getting vaccinated? it really doesnt make sense. if more people where vacinated the numbers wouldnt be going back up anywhere and less mandates. What is the going reason for not getting vaccinatted?

 

[Belgorim]

but why not jsut completely cut off the hosts supply by everyone getting vaccinated? it really doesnt make sense. if more people where vacinated the numbers wouldnt be going back up anywhere and less mandates. What is the going reason for not getting vaccinatted?

But if the harm from covid in children is so low, you should be very careful with medicine/vaccines for them that could be more harmful than the disease.

Should be obvious if you follow the childrens convention.

 

[RoboFu]

But if the harm from covid in children is so low, you should be very careful with medicine/vaccines for them that could be more harmful than the disease.

Should be obvious if you follow the childrens convention.

didnt say they should be vaccinated I ask why arent adults and the groups that are currently dying in hospitals when they shouldn't be. Fear? Fear of a vaccine thats been out long enough now to have realworld along with internal testing.

I mean how many of you go to mcdonalds everyday? put all kids of chemicals in your body for years but now are afraid of this? its silly.

 

[Belgorim]

didnt say they should be vaccinated I ask why arent adults and the groups that are currently dying in hospitals when they shouldn't be. Fear? Fear of a vaccine thats been out long enough now to have realworld along with internal testing.

I mean how many of you go to mcdonalds everyday? put all kids of chemicals in your body for years but now are afraid of this? its silly.

ok, I missread your post.

Well, I'm not in the US, here the vaccine uptake seems rather good. Usualy is.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

now show florida. Which is reporting 90 something percent of all hospitalizations are unvacinated people. even the posiitivity rate correlates with vaccinations in each age group the group with less vaccinations having more new cases.

The biggest issue I have is that there is a whole group of kids below 12 who are now at higher risk of contacting the virus because selfish morons do not want to get a vaccine because of "conspiracies". If it wasn't for my children being too young to get a vaccine I wouldnt care what you guys do. But because of people who wwont get the vaccine numbers are going up and places are starting to mandating masks again which means to visit those places my children have to wear masks again.

Vaccines are proven.. justt get a vaccine idiots!

How about I show you England, which was at least a few weeks or months ahead of us when it comes to the Delta wave?

This is a table I made from the data of their last 4 official biweekly reports that look at people who received emergency care. You can view all of the source data here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201#history

As you can see, while completely unvaccinated people account for 53% of the total cases and the unvaccinated account for just 13% (with the 1-dose group being 24% and the rest being of an unknown status), there are still a very large amount of vaccinated people getting the disease to the point where they need emergency care. That means there are almost certainly a lot more getting infected and not having symptoms.

You do see a clear benefit in protection from death in the >50 age group, where 220 of 13,427 fully vaccinated cases (1.63849%) ended in death, whereas 131 of 2,337 unvaccinated cases (5.60548%) ended in death.

However, that benefit basically disappears in the <50 age group, where 4 of 15,346 fully vaccinated cases (0.02607%) ended in death and 34 of 119,063 unvaccinated cases (0.02856%) ended in death.

Curiously, when it comes to a death outcome, the 1-dose group seems to be the best off with only 0.01233% of those under <50 cases resulting in death and 1.08336% of >50 cases resulting in death.

Still, the overall absolute numbers are possibly too small to make any decisive judgments, but either way, the lowered lethality of the Delta should bode well for any country in which it is currently running wild.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

but why not jsut completely cut off the hosts supply by everyone getting vaccinated? it really doesnt make sense. if more people where vacinated the numbers wouldnt be going back up anywhere and less mandates. What is the going reason for not getting vaccinatted?

Because the vaccines do not appear to be particularly effective at preventing infection with the Delta. Get the vaccine to protect yourself if you think it will help, but don't expect that it will prevent the virus from spreading. I'm pretty sure none of the manufacturers even claim their vaccines will prevent infection, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[QSD]

but why not jsut completely cut off the hosts supply by everyone getting vaccinated?

Even if everyone was vaccinated with the current vaccines , there would still be some number of hosts, it isn't clear that the virus would die out completely.

it really doesnt make sense. if more people where vacinated the numbers wouldnt be going back up anywhere and less mandates. What is the going reason for not getting vaccinatted?

It bogs down to a trust issue. Some people don't trust the pharmaceutical companies, some people don't trust the FDA, some don't trust the WHO etc etc. Because of pre-existing political polarization a lot of people also don't trust the politicians recommending vaccination. Then there's a general distrust of mainstream media and the information they disseminate (this was also already an issue pre-covid). Oh and the list wouldn't be complete without mentioning a couple of billionaires like Bill Gates or George Soros.

You will probably now want to argue about how appropriate this paranoia is given the circumstances. But I do believe that the main issue is trust, or rather a lack thereof.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

if more people where vacinated the numbers wouldnt be going back up anywhere and less mandates.

You mean like Israel where they have over 61% of the population fully vaccinated, a number the US is unlikely to ever reach, and their cases/hospitalizations are currently rising and restrictions are coming back?

Or how about Iceland, where a whole 74% of their entire population is fully vaccinated, and yet they are currently seeing their biggest spike in cases since the pandemic began. Their absolute numbers are tiny (but so is their population), but the point still stands.

 

[RoboFu]

You mean like Israel where they have over 61% of the population fully vaccinated, a number the US is unlikely to ever reach, and their cases/hospitalizations are currently rising and restrictions are coming back?

Or how about Iceland, where a whole 74% of their entire population is fully vaccinated, and yet they are currently seeing their biggest spike in cases since the pandemic began. Their absolute numbers are tiny (but so is their population), but the point still stands.

ICELAND had a little over 600 cases total. they were down to 0 new cases.. they resumed international travel because they thrive on it and now they've spiked. I wonder why? could i t be all the unvacinated people visiting?
its really just proving my point.

 

[Shouta]

They mutate due to biological pressures. In this case the vaccine would be the pressure. So in order to mutate in a way that would render the vaccines ineffective, the virus would have to encounter and infect vaccinated people. This is biology 101.

Virus mutation doesn't happen only via biological pressures. There can be errors when something replicates that causes it to mutate and those can accumulate over time causing it to become something different. So the more times a virus copies, the higher chance that something like this can happen which is why having more unvaccinated people can also pose a risk. With more vaccinated individuals, that provides a greater barrier from this happening. The links are specifically talking about the Flu but since they're viruses all the same, the principal should apply.

How Flu Viruses Can Change

Influenza viruses are constantly changing. They can change in two different ways: antigenic drift and antigenic shift.

www.cdc.gov

Antigenic drift - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How Do Viruses Mutate and What it Means for a Vaccine? | Pfizer

As SARS-CoV-2 spreads around the globe, it is mutating, in other words it is acquiring genetic changes. While the idea of “viral mutation” may sound concerning, it’s important to understand that many of these mutations are minor, and don’t have an overall impact on how fast a virus spreads or...

www.breakthroughs.com

So a breakthrough case isn't the only situation where the virus could mutate to make vaccines less effective. The more times it can go replicate unchecked, the higher chances of errors in replicate occuring, allowing it to change enough to become a problem.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

ICELAND had a little over 600 cases total. they were down to 0 new cases.. they resumed international travel because they thrive on it and now they've spiked. I wonder why? could i t be all the unvacinated people visiting?
its really just proving my point.

Considering they required proof of vaccination or a prior COVID-19 infection to enter the country... no?

 

[DeepBreath87]

Virus mutation doesn't happen only via biological pressures. There can be errors when something replicates that causes it to mutate and those can accumulate over time causing it to become something different. So the more times a virus copies, the higher chance that something like this can happen which is why having more unvaccinated people can also pose a risk. With more vaccinated individuals, that provides a greater barrier from this happening. The links are specifically talking about the Flu but since they're viruses all the same, the principal should apply.

How Flu Viruses Can Change

Influenza viruses are constantly changing. They can change in two different ways: antigenic drift and antigenic shift.

www.cdc.gov

Antigenic drift - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So a breakthrough case isn't the only situation where the virus could mutate to make vaccines less effective. The more times it can go replicate unchecked, the higher chances of errors in replicate occuring, allowing it to change enough to become a problem.

That’s true. But the discussion was centered around the idea that unvaccinated individuals are the sole source of variants. That just isn’t supportable.

 

[Shouta]

That’s true. But the discussion was centered around the idea that unvaccinated individuals are the sole source of variants. That just isn’t supportable.

I mean, that's currently the case, no? The variations we have had are the result of the virus going around and hitting our populations prior to the vaccine being available. It's technically true that they're not the only source of variants but it's the one that has way more potential to cause the emergence of a variant. Vaccinated individuals have a harder time of being infected and make it harder for the virus to replicate. So there's already lowered potential for mutations to occur.

If the virus were to mutate to render the vaccines a lot less effective, it's more likely that a variant develops amongst the unvaccinated that becomes a breakthrough case and then mutates further to be effective at dodging the vaccines. RoboFu's original point was that unvaccinated people feed the virus mutations and he's not wrong.

 

[Zangiefy360]

Anyone with a choice to get a free covid vaccine who chooses not take it given all the evidence is a complete fucking idiot.

I'm not sure if you're being low key racist here, but the data suggests these "fucking idiots" are mostly black and Hispanic.

Did you mean to call them "fucking idiots" or are you unaware of this data?

 

[DeepBreath87]

I mean, that's currently the case, no? The variations we have had are the result of the virus going around and hitting our populations prior to the vaccine being available. It's technically true that they're not the only source of variants but it's the one that has way more potential to cause the emergence of a variant. Vaccinated individuals have a harder time of being infected and make it harder for the virus to replicate. So there's already lowered potential for mutations to occur.

If the virus were to mutate to render the vaccines a lot less effective, it's more likely that a variant develops amongst the unvaccinated that becomes a breakthrough case and then mutates further to be effective at dodging the vaccines. RoboFu's original point was that unvaccinated people feed the virus mutations and he's not wrong.

That was not his point. His point wasn’t just that the unvaccinated may contribute to mutation more than the vaccinated. His point was that the vaccinated were not contributing to mutation at all, which is simply false based on all available knowledge of the virus. It is clearly spreading among the vaccinated at some level, albeit less efficiently.

This virus is here to stay. Forever. The sooner we come to grips with that, the better we will all be. Covid is a part of life now. And that’s ok.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I mean, that's currently the case, no? The variations we have had are the result of the virus going around and hitting our populations prior to the vaccine being available. It's technically true that they're not the only source of variants but it's the one that has way more potential to cause the emergence of a variant. Vaccinated individuals have a harder time of being infected and make it harder for the virus to replicate. So there's already lowered potential for mutations to occur.

If the virus were to mutate to render the vaccines a lot less effective, it's more likely that a variant develops amongst the unvaccinated that becomes a breakthrough case and then mutates further to be effective at dodging the vaccines. RoboFu's original point was that unvaccinated people feed the virus mutations and he's not wrong.

1. We actually don't have any hard evidence that it is "harder" for the vaccinated to become infected. Please share if you do.

2. What's your logic that it would it be likely that an unvaccinated person would be the source of a mutation that is better at infecting the vaccinated? There is precedent for antibody-dependent enhancement and many have been sounding the alarm about it in regards to trying to vaccinate your way out of an ongoing full blown pandemic, although others think it's less likely to occur with a coronaviruses.

 

[p_xavier]

Many Canadian provinces are doing the UK thing, basically start to live with COVID. Ontario is supposed to lift most of the requirements next week, hopefully no back-pedalling.

 

[adj83]

Virus mutation doesn't happen only via biological pressures. There can be errors when something replicates that causes it to mutate and those can accumulate over time causing it to become something different. So the more times a virus copies, the higher chance that something like this can happen which is why having more unvaccinated people can also pose a risk. With more vaccinated individuals, that provides a greater barrier from this happening. The links are specifically talking about the Flu but since they're viruses all the same, the principal should apply.

How Flu Viruses Can Change

Influenza viruses are constantly changing. They can change in two different ways: antigenic drift and antigenic shift.

www.cdc.gov

Antigenic drift - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How Do Viruses Mutate and What it Means for a Vaccine? | Pfizer

As SARS-CoV-2 spreads around the globe, it is mutating, in other words it is acquiring genetic changes. While the idea of “viral mutation” may sound concerning, it’s important to understand that many of these mutations are minor, and don’t have an overall impact on how fast a virus spreads or...

www.breakthroughs.com

So a breakthrough case isn't the only situation where the virus could mutate to make vaccines less effective. The more times it can go replicate unchecked, the higher chances of errors in replicate occuring, allowing it to change enough to become a problem.

IIRC, this is true and it becomes like a math problem where you need the probability of a significant mutation occurring each time the virus replicates. You also need to factor in a probability of the mutated strain not being outcompeted in the host by other strains and the chance of it spreading successfully - in an unvaxed person, they might cough and release 99 normal COVID viruses and 1 mutated COVID virus and there is a good chance that the mutated one goes nowhere. However, if a mutation occurs in a vaxed person, there is a lower chance of the new strain being outcompeted and a higher percentage of the coughed out strains would be the mutated strain because their immune system has been slowing down/killing the normal strain.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[BouncyFrag]

We live in an absolute .

 

[QSD]

Virus mutation doesn't happen only via biological pressures. There can be errors when something replicates that causes it to mutate and those can accumulate over time causing it to become something different. So the more times a virus copies, the higher chance that something like this can happen which is why having more unvaccinated people can also pose a risk. With more vaccinated individuals, that provides a greater barrier from this happening. The links are specifically talking about the Flu but since they're viruses all the same, the principal should apply.

I think this is a slight misunderstanding. All organisms evolve by random mutation. Which is an error in copying the genome. Most mutations are not useful and thus die off. However some are useful, and these stand a higher chance of surviving and passing on the new (mutated) genome. "Biological pressures" are the environment the organism is in. If it's very hostile and survival chances are slim, the only survivors (if any) will be lean & mean. If the environment is hospitable, just about everyone survives, not just badass MF's. The base mutation rate never changes though, there's always a small % chance a mutation will happen each consecutive generation.

When there's a ton of vaccinated people, overall number of mutations will drop dramatically (fewer new generations are born) BUT any especially virulent mutations will have an easier time becoming dominant.
When there's few vaccinated people, there's a lot more mutation and overall sickness and death, but (small upside) any ultra virulent version of the virus will have a tougher time getting a foothold (all of the hosts are already taken)

 

[12Goblins]

I've been thinking about this claim for a while now but can't really figure it

- if many are vaccinated this puts evolutionary pressure on the virus, the landscape is more hostile so any virus strain that manages to slip through will be more resilient
VS
- if many are vaccinated there is just far less of the virus making the rounds. Lower population means a lower chance of a resistant mutation appearing

I think both premises are true. it's a whole lot of randomness and probability (like all things in the universe)

 

[Jaysen]

I'm not sure if you're being low key racist here, but the data suggests these "fucking idiots" are mostly black and Hispanic.

Did you mean to call them "fucking idiots" or are you unaware of this data?

Yes. The difference is those idiots aren’t on the radio and social media telling everyone else it’s a hoax. Not quite the gotcha you thought it was huh?

 

[Zangiefy360]

Yes. The difference is those idiots aren’t on the radio and social media telling everyone else it’s a hoax. Not quite the gotcha you thought it was huh?

You're moving the goal posts Jaysen . That's not what you said. Here's your exact quote in case you forgot:

Anyone with a choice to get a free covid vaccine who chooses not take it given all the evidence is a complete fucking idiot.

You said anyone, which means you called out black and Hispanic people disproportionately by calling them fucking idiots. GTFO peddling that racist shit.

 

[thefool]

Just look at this clown world

 

[12Goblins]

We live in an absolute .

i don't think any of this is too complicated,

1. there's still a lot we don't know about this virus and these vaccines, naturally. for instance, we don't know how long these are effective, when immunity starts to wane, and how much these different vaccines curb the actual transmission of the virus.
2. in the meantime, for extra safety, and to protect those not vaccinated (those who can't AND those who wont--yes, you are being looked after by good samatarians who consider you a victim of misinformation): please limit your germ spreading (wash hands, wear mask, avoid unnecessary congregating, etc)



not saying I agree that this is best approach. Americans have spoken, and a lot of them would prefer to die a noble patriot death asphyxiated by the Kung Flu than to admit whatever garbage that has been put in their head that they think they are agreeing to when putting on a mask.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Just look at this clown world

But the science was settled! Settled! Twitter and Facebook's Community Safety teams told me so! They invited me to get the facts about the COVID-19 vaccines! The facts!

In all seriousness, who really gives a shit? People at higher risk can clearly reduce their absolute risk factor by getting vaccinated. This should be about personal protection. It's almost certain that this virus is here for the long haul so we need to get on with our lives.

 

[Raven117]

The real question is whether we are headed towards lockdown 2.0.

Any thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

CDC updates guidance, recommends vaccinated people wear masks indoors in certain areas | CNN

To prevent further spread of the Delta variant, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated its mask guidance on Tuesday to recommend that fully vaccinated people wear masks indoors when in areas with “substantial” and “high” transmission of Covid-19, which includes nearly...

www.cnn.com

New unpublished data showing that vaccinated people infected with the Delta coronavirus variant can have as much virus as those who are unvaccinated is the primary driver for the CDC's latest mask guidance change, a source involved with the decision process told CNN. Overall, vaccinated people still play a small role in transmission and breakthrough infections are rare.

Goddamn we look like pie-in-face morons. Contrast this with the UK just having rescinded almost all legal restrictions (and somehow timing it perfectly with their peak, seemingly) including masks.

The real question is whether we are headed towards lockdown 2.0.

Any thoughts?

Wherever they think they can get away with it. The narrative since yesterday is that the Delta variant changes everything. New variant, new rules.

 

[Raven117]

CDC updates guidance, recommends vaccinated people wear masks indoors in certain areas | CNN

To prevent further spread of the Delta variant, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated its mask guidance on Tuesday to recommend that fully vaccinated people wear masks indoors when in areas with “substantial” and “high” transmission of Covid-19, which includes nearly...

www.cnn.com

Goddamn we look like pie-in-face morons. Contrast this with the UK just having rescinded almost all legal restrictions (and somehow timing it perfectly with their peak, seemingly) including masks.



Wherever they think they can get away with it. The narrative since yesterday is that the Delta variant changes everything. New variant, new rules.

Thats my concern as well....its starting to have the feeling again.....I hope Im wrong.

 

[12Goblins]

Wherever they think they can get away with it. The narrative since yesterday is that the Delta variant changes everything. New variant, new rules.

who is wanting a lockdown and for what purpose?

 

[Raven117]

who is wanting a lockdown and for what purpose?

To stop the spread of "delta" of course. (regardless of actual mortality and hospitalization rate).

 

[arkhamguy123]

People should really stop freaking out. The UK data should make everyone feel better. They had a big spike of cases and a very very mild increase in hospitalizations and death. Case numbers there have already fallen by 25% in a week and are still dropping precipitously. Meanwhile, everything is open there. No restrictions. There is no reason to be shitting ourselves right now.

But the DELTA!!!!!!!!!

 

[vpance]

The real question is whether we are headed towards lockdown 2.0.

Any thoughts?

I think they already successfully sold that Delta is more deadly and that things are in a worse state than last year. They needed to do this in order to justify the passports. So when cases inevitably rise again this winter season, yes they will certainly lock us down again and add more restrictions.

This latest astounding revelation that the vaccinated still carry massive amounts of viral load is probably just to prepare us for that, and new boosters with better anti-viral tech. lol

 

[arkhamguy123]

The real question is whether we are headed towards lockdown 2.0.

Any thoughts?

Oh cmon. Negative chance of this happening.

 

[Raven117]

I think they already successfully sold that Delta is more deadly and that things are in a worse state than last year. They needed to do this in order to justify the passports. So when cases inevitably rise again this winter season, yes they will certainly lock us down again and add more restrictions.

This latest astounding revelation that the vaccinated still carry massive amounts of viral load is probably just to prepare us for that, and new boosters with better anti-viral tech. lol

Oh cmon. Negative chance of this happening.

 

[thefool]

This is not new data at all, been posting about this subject for a whole week. Like I have been saying for some time, based on what we know of virus spread amongst vaccinated, the discriminatory rhetoric against unvaccinated individuals is downright absurd and baseless.

The real question is whether we are headed towards lockdown 2.0.

Any thoughts?

Nothing about the pandemic response has been about science and common sense. There's no reason whatsoever for it, but who knows...

 

[Chaplain]

 

[godhandiscen]

who is wanting a lockdown and for what purpose?

Have you seen how the shares of Google, Amazon, Facebook, and other companies that increase their earnings when people spend more time online exploded in value during the lockdown?
I am not saying that the companies which control the narrative are forcing the lockdown, but some businesses benefit massively from lockdowns, and I bet there are some investors who are salivating at the possibility of these trends continuing.