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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
You are correct that is 100% the problem we find ourselves in right now.
Jaysen
Banned
India keeps making the news for their vaccine numbers rising. They still have a long way to go, but the vaccine is why their numbers are dropping, not some drug you only take after you get severe covid.
funkygunther
Banned
do you not know your country’s migration policies or how the executive/legislative parts of your government function together?
funkygunther
Banned
there is a correlation between states that approved Ivermectin as prophylaxis and cases dropping dramatically (Goa, Uttar Pradesh) and ones that haven’t (Kerala) but I don’t think any causation has been proven
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
What is missing from this is the number of cases of myocarditis prevented by vaccination and the number of vaccine induced myocarditis events that result in hospitalization.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Admitting there's problems and solutions is part of it. With this it seems she, as the CMOH, is distancing from political positions and going to science. Good. Still a lot of unecessary death and suffering before that, but fitting recommendations for aspirations of the political party in power was a major complaint about her performance as PHO. Now it puts it on the government to do something or take the blame if/when she steps up her recommendations or resigns.
Good to see vaccine passports in BC getting recognition for working in boosting vaccination rates with the hesitant after the $100 incentive failed in AB.
funkygunther
Banned
First UK press conference in a long time just now, so for winter:
- Plan A is to continue to boost vaccination numbers, ask people to think about using face coverings, wash hands and get a test
- Plan B - including Covid passports, mandatory face masks and asking people to work from home
- Asked what would trigger Plan B, England’s chief medical officer, Prof Chris Whitty, pointed to three things - the rate of people going into hospital, the rate of change of these hospitalisations, and the overall state of the NHS.
- The PM said it was “just not sensible” to “rule out completely” the option [of vaccine passports]. He said it “might still make the difference” between keeping businesses open at full capacity or not. But he added that not introducing them at the moment was the "right balance" based on the current data.
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JumpMan1981
Banned
Source?
The article I had shared regarding India was from mid May.
This is right when India had an absolutely massive spike and right when they were discussing certain drugs and treatments.
India COVID: 33,314,869 Cases and 443,517 Deaths - Worldometer (worldometers.info)
This is when it was proposed that everyone in India be offered a 5 day treatment with
"The state health minister of Goa, Vishwajit Rane, said Monday that people will be given 12 mg of Ivermectin for a period of five days as prophylaxis to protect against Covid-19."
"Rane claimed that the state government’s decision was based on studies by expert panels from the UK, Italy, Spain and Japan which found a statistically significant reduction in mortality and recovery time in patients with Covid-19, without offering any specifics."
So, once again moving away from our US-centric bubble, it's pretty clear that a number of countries have for some random reason decided to start investigating horse paste. Must just be a really weird coincidence, eh?
You can be in the USA and be ridiculed for "taking horse paste" then fly halfway around the world and the people there are like "yeah, we used this stuff for years for a few diseases and suspect it might have some effect with covid". Fly back to the USA and be accused of being some wild conspiracy nutjob. Weird how it's like that, eh?
Back to India. So 11th of May they are talking about Ivermectin. Then from late May to mid-June there is a massive drop off in the number of deaths.
Now, maybe that could be a coincidence. Maybe they were not reporting numbers correctly. It could be lots of things.
Interesting that depending on which part of the world you live in people seem to have a totally different attitude towards this drug, isn't it?
JumpMan1981
Banned
I would guess that the vaccine passports will be an inevitability in the UK.
They seem to be at least floating the idea now that they might be needed.
Funny because just now you can comfortably travel around the EU and UK without proof of vaccination. Negative test is fine.
Let's see how long that lasts.
funkygunther
Banned
would be fine with them if it meant I didn't have to mess around with tests
Jaysen
Banned
All you have to do is Google India and vaccine to see the tons of stories about their increase in vaccinations.
Vicetrailia
Member
The problem with anti-vax is that everything but the vaccine must be something good. In reality professionals and the major players haven't dismissed or looked over ivermectin and many other things, they are doing papers, trials, clinical trials, etc.
Look at this site, and go to IV on the infographic: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2980
What are they really finding?
This is a nicely sized randomized trial: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389
And yet, they are only finding possibly a marginal effect on surrogate factors. If there is anything there is it very marginal, that's what all of the research shows. So what you can actually do is go get the vaccine and be on with your day, lol. It is proven scientifically and anecdotally. You don't have to think about ivermectin or whatever buzzword "solution" randomly shows up. You already have a pretty good solution. People are aimlessly fighting it.
JumpMan1981
Banned
Yeah, maybe you best go back to flippant comments and silly remarks. Maybe find some old lady who died from Covid to laugh at.
Clearly out of your depth when someone wants to actually have a discussion.
JumpMan1981
Banned
I agree that it's quite irrational to look for other poorly researched solutions when the vaccine is literally right there and available right now. Some people simply don't trust the vaccines and if there is a solution for them too then I am OK with that. The main disclaimer I would make is that people should only go for alternatives when prescribed or recommended by a doctor.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
"Don't repeat our mistakes..."
With BC hospitals managed precisely for their flow of patients they can't take on too many from other provinces without compromise, even if hospitalizations/icu stay stable with their expected increase in provincial cases through September.
Where do Alberta and Saskatchewan patients expect they're going to go? Their own lack of covid restrictions and low vaccination rates are making this a capacity problem.
They understand rationing? Is opening emergency military hospitals a thing? Haven't seen military deployed to COVID since they staffed care homes at the start.
Unsure if the government talked about passport implementation. They were very easy to get. Once the passport website opened entered personal health number with vaccination date of 2nd dose(or 1st if only one) then it gives a QR code to save to phone, print or easy accessible again through the same process(different link) online afterward for scan. Valid until end of Jan. 2022 then policy reviewed.
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
He has a point though. People who don't trust the vaccines yet seem willing to throw their faith behind <miracle cure of the week> tend to ask for sources on every little thing (often rejecting them if they disconfirm their opinion BTW), when they could obtain the info themselves with a quick Google search, five minutes of enumerating articles / reports of interest, then ten or so more minutes of reading. It's not everyone else's job to act as their secretary, feeding them well-known or easily-available information.
If you followed the thread(s) here from inception, it's doubly frustrating because even when we offered exhaustive information in the past, complete with links to data science tools and pre-modeled data and everything to make it easy for them to gleam the data they're requesting and more, they just called us liars or expressed distrust with the CDC or FDA or just plain resorted to childish slogans like "fake news".
What are you gonna man? One can only take so much before the reply becomes "Google it yourself".
Vicetrailia
Member
Unfortunately they will meet the consequences of inaction, because they live in a society and the vaccine is the cheapest and best tool that we have. It hits every checkbox but being a “miracle cure”.
JumpMan1981
Banned
Why would it be frustrating? I got vaccinated almost as soon as it was available to me.
I don't mind having conversations about this stuff at all.
What I do get annoyed at is people who just aren't willing to offer anything of substance.
Like I said, you can be on one side of the world and people are thinking a specific treatment is a real possibility then fly round to the USA and people are losing their damn minds at the mere suggestion. It's ridiculous.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Probably 100% of them got it very early, as soon as it was available.
But yeah, there's no shortage of hypocrisy from Congress, including their fantastic socialized medical plans, pension and more. I don't know anything about why they weren't mandated though (or if that's even true), but it wouldn't surprise me.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
They're not exempt. It's just that the Congressional branch of government is an equal branch with the Executive branch (the President), and the President can't mandate for Congress to do anything.
The speaker of the house can make that call- it’s currently Nancy Pelosi and she is waiting for full approval from the FDA (for Moderna I believe)
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BarringGaffner
Member
How could anyone take Tim Pool seriously at this point?
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
I like Tim Pool
They're not exempt. It's just that the Congressional branch of government is an equal branch with the Executive branch (the President), and the President can't mandate for Congress to do anything.
The speaker of the house can make that call- it’s currently Nancy Pelosi and she is waiting for full approval from the FDA (for Moderna I believe)
Thank you. Though I'm not sure that that's true (that the president can't mandate for Congress - I say that because I believe he could do so via executive order). Also begs the question of why Pelosi feels the need to wait for Moderna's full approval whereas she nas no compunction mandating vaccines for tens of millions of Americans in the absence of that full approval (for Moderna).
FunkMiller
Member
First person to link to a lunatic claiming that conservative radio talk hosts are being deliberately murdered to push the covid agenda gets a cookie 
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
Like the USPS they are quasi-federal employees. Biden cannot make such a mandate over them with only an executive order. Like with changes to the USPS, Congress themselves have to do that.
Separation of powers and all.
funkygunther
Banned
there is already a pass like this, I've used it to get into concerts and festivals but the actual enforcement of it is non-existent...as in you could just have a random photo of a QR code on your screen, the people at the gates aren't checking
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
No-one is losing their minds at ivermectin being suggested as a possible treatment option to be evaluated. The problem, as I have stated several times in this thread, is that ivermectin is pushed as an alternative to everything else. Vaccines, masks, social distancing, lockdowns.
Ivermectin is not a miracle cure, any half decent study has shown that.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
That's good that it's already being tested so to speak. Then it sounds like it's just a matter for the federal government to making it enforceable?
Here it's provincial jurisdiction. Difficult to say what enforcement will be with certainty as it just started. Lots of public support in BC and almost 87% 12 and up are vaccinated(one dose),70%fully. Fully isn't a requirement until October.
For federal it looks like there's a strong possibility of a federal vaccine passport for international travel to replace these provincial ones. Maybe could be used by provinces that don't implement their own for use by their citizens in other provinces that require them.
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Thaedolus
Member
It’s because politics are retarded. There’s nothing about the Pfizer vaccine to be afraid of, but politics are politics
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Booster shots making a difference in Israel.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Israel was held up as a prime example of this or that by people against vaccination. Something tells me that will be changing now.
I eagerly await the traditional moving of the goalposts.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Yeah I bet that it is an excuse so that they can prevent republicans in Congress from linking themselves to the 'common' man and instead look like whiners when they have to get the vaccine after everyone else already had to.
Thaedolus
Member
But muh horse paste…
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Where are you seeing that migrants are exempt?
Jaysen
Banned
Because you’re not smart enough to read the hundreds of stories documenting the successes India has had with the vaccine program the past few months? But sure, it was the horse paste that reduced severe cases and deaths. Lololo
Narasumas
Member
Right or wrong…quit belittling people. The culture on here is just rank. Have some decency please with your debates. Hurling insults shouldn’t be the first thing you look towards.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The costs of being unvaccinated. It amazes me how the "rah rah freedom" vaccine hesitant types also tend to be a big supporters of bootstraps and financial independence. Yet, by being unvaccinated, they are inflicting huge monetary burdens on our healthcare system.
It's ironic.
www.healthsystemtracker.org
It's ironic.
Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker
COVID-19 vaccines have been free and broadly available to adults in all states and the District of Columbia since mid-April 2021, meaning adults in the U.S. have generally been able to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 since late May 2021 if receiving a two-dose vaccine. COVID-19 vaccines are...
www.healthsystemtracker.org
JumpMan1981
Banned
If you were paying attention you'd understand that I was talking about India's huge spike in May that sharply dropped off late May to early June and the reporting on how they were planning to deal with that (with specific drugs).
Not enough time for vaccine rollout and not enough time for both doses. You know so much but you don't know this?
The past few months they had it under control but of course you know I was talking about their huge spike in May and not their recent situation.
Hilarious that you have to resort to this kind of misrepresentation. Like I said, might be best for you to go back to petty insults and drama because you aren't remotely capable of a sensible discussion on this issue.
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JumpMan1981
Banned
Its not really a debate. I think maybe different people in different parts of the world see this differently based on the media and the messaging they are exposed to.
Plenty of people not vaxxed around here and it's pretty laid back to be honest. Come online and people are hysterical and going out of their minds because others won't get vaccinated.
A situation like someone high profile catching Covid and being fine and then communicating how they were treated and what their doctor prescribed was inevitable and now we see the backlash because folk can't take it.
Genuinely think some were wishing that Rogan would get seriously ill cos that would teach him not to question the narrative.
Might be getting too political now so will leave it there. Of course, a certain clique is allowed to be political AND insulting when it suits...
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Can't decide
Member
Colleague and good friend of mine was shitting himself today, he recently took the vaccine and has began to feel the same symptoms as his other family members after they received the vaccine.
Unfortunately it's already killed his perfectly healthy sister, while his perfectly healthy mother and aunt are currently on life support and rapidly getting worse. Their blood and immune system have been totally fucked over, they've tried blood transfusions and trying to do something about platelets though all to no avail. He is travelling back to Portugal tonight in the hopes that he gets to see them before the worst happens.
This isn't even the first time a colleague has told me about healthy family members dying shortly after taking the vaccine and were only 18 staff, but of course a bunch of you self-righteous assholes, particularly ones like
Jaysen
keep giving a one trick pony with a broken record a run for it's money, by calling all the skeptics "morons" and "dumb shits" page after page, after page, after page, after page yet without any actual or intellectual input or counter arguments.
It makes me wonder if some of you actual venture out in to the real world and have conversations with real people, or if you just solely sit in front of screen and absorb "The news".
Unfortunately it's already killed his perfectly healthy sister, while his perfectly healthy mother and aunt are currently on life support and rapidly getting worse. Their blood and immune system have been totally fucked over, they've tried blood transfusions and trying to do something about platelets though all to no avail. He is travelling back to Portugal tonight in the hopes that he gets to see them before the worst happens.
This isn't even the first time a colleague has told me about healthy family members dying shortly after taking the vaccine and were only 18 staff, but of course a bunch of you self-righteous assholes, particularly ones like
Jaysen
keep giving a one trick pony with a broken record a run for it's money, by calling all the skeptics "morons" and "dumb shits" page after page, after page, after page, after page yet without any actual or intellectual input or counter arguments.It makes me wonder if some of you actual venture out in to the real world and have conversations with real people, or if you just solely sit in front of screen and absorb "The news".
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It was just on the guidelines of the central government. Some of the states then decided to go further and use it as a prophylaxis.
These guidelines were later revised in June, and Ivermectin was dropped.
Govt drops Ivermectin, HCQ and favipiravir from Covid-19 treatment list
The revised guidelines do not mention medicines such as zinc, multivitamins which were prescribed by the doctors for asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic Covid-19 cases.
Goa: Ivermectin, doxycycline, zinc out of Covid home kits | Goa News - Times of India
The directorate of health services (DHS) has instructed health centres and hospitals across the state to remove ivermectin, zinc and doxycycline table
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
"For some reason". That's pretty much it. There's no reason to conclude that ivermectin had anything to do with that considering that
1. The dropoff in cases started before those specific states started to give out ivermectin.
2. They wouldn't have been able to deliver enough doses of ivermectin to make such a large difference so quickly anyway.
You are mischaracterizing the situation. "There's no compelling reason to believe that it was because of these drugs" is a better description. These were mainly as a response to people on the internet who were mistakenly using it as proof to claim that IVM works.
Peer pressure, unclear information, and a lack of alternatives, are possibilities.
Ivermectin for COVID-19: Is India overusing
The medical fraternity is divided on its use amid lack of strong evidence of its success in treating...
www.downtoearth.org.in
India is fighting a healthcare crisis of unimaginable proportions with woefully outdated science
A delay in updating guidelines has led doctors to continue prescribing hydroxychloroquine, favipiravir, and ivermectin, and caused a panicked scurry for remdesivir.
qz.com
USA-centric bubble? That's ironic considering that the entire world was sharing data on what works and what doesn't work to conclude that the jury's still out on ivermectin, while certain segments of India went through with an ivermectin protocol probably because they were in an information bubble themselves and were desperate.
pel1300
Member
Pretty much. It's amazing how detached from reality this cult is.This isn't even the first time a colleague has told me about healthy family members dying shortly after taking the vaccine and were only 18 staff, but of course a bunch of you self-righteous assholes, particularly ones like
It makes me wonder if some of you actual venture out in to the real world and have conversations with real people, or if you just solely sit in front of screen and absorb "The news".
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Refraining from extrapolating truths about the world based on anecdotal stories is not something a reality-detached cult does.
Can't decide
Member
Yes, we should totally ignore the real world evidence happening right in front of your own eyes.
Fuck you and your "anecdote", how many "anecdotes" will it take? Try talking to real people or browsing more than a couple of sites for fucks sake. I'm probably going to lose a close friend because he listened to people like you. Fuck off.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Can't decide
Member
You would probably sit there and watch a hundred people die in front of you, and still think "Yeah but the experts say..."
Thanks for the sympathy for my friend too, cunt.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Watching a hundred people die in front of you is not the same as a story you hear from your friend. Do you see the difference?