Support NeoGAF

[Limited Edition]

Yep. Basically the film's message is independent career-oriented women have no place in society. It's especially jarring seeing this from a Western-made film, seeing that such a section is one of the fastest growing in our society, and usually held as a symbol of women's rights across the world.

But nope; that isn't tolerated in Jurassic World. Strong, independent women don't belong :/

I took the film's message as one of 'humans are pretty dumb and will only learn not to screw with certain things the hard way, and even then it will take a few tries'.

But then again, I'm not the type to over analyze a mediocre movie just because I don't like it therefor I have to try and ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Violet_0]

It's a trope, but usually the brutality of a death for a character in films is usually in line with some sort of karma - especially Hollywood flicks where everything goes the hero's or heroes' way(s). The worse a character is or perceived to be, the worse the death. This death is completely at odds with whatever we've known about the character - her main sin seemed to be that she was 'slightly arsey'. It doesn't gel, much like the rest of the film.

exactly, it's an old and trite trope. Does everything have to follow the same formula rehashed a thousand times over? Terrible things happen to good people all the time for no reason. I find the idea ridicules that the length and gruesomeness of a death scene should correlate directly to how nice a character is, because apparently the audience needs some kind of elementary school-level moral message at the end of the movie. That's just awful story telling

how do people even watch stuff like Game of Thrones or No Country for Old Men? Or is it because Jurassic World is a typical PG-13 Hollywood blockbuster and we just expect certain things from them, and lord have mercy is something diverts from the standard formula?

 

[Barkley's Justice]

I remember when the assistant died (and in the manner that she did), thinking to myself, "Damn...That was cold..."

 

[Kinyou]

exactly, it's an old and trite trope. Does everything have to follow the same formula rehashed a thousand times over? Terrible things happen to good people all the time for no reason. I find the idea ridicules that the length and gruesomeness of a death scene should correlate directly to how nice a character is, because apparently the audience needs some kind of elementary school-level moral message at the end of the movie. That's just awful story telling

I think it's the first time I heard a movie being critised for not following a trope

 

[Corronchilejano]

exactly, it's an old and trite trope. Does everything have to follow the same formula rehashed a thousand times over? Terrible things happen to good people all the time for no reason. I find the idea ridicules that the length and gruesomeness of a death scene should correlate directly to how nice a character is, because apparently the audience needs some kind of elementary school-level moral message at the end of the movie. That's just awful story telling

how do people even watch stuff like Game of Thrones or No Country for Old Men? Or is it because Jurassic World is a typical PG-13 Hollywood blockbuster and we just expect certain things from them, and lord have mercy is something diverts from the standard formula?

The problem is that it never diverts from the standard formula. You're a woman? You better be taking care of 'em kids and don't you dare believe you may have a career without that.

Also, apparently, this movie believes its ok to place a lot of human lives in danger as long as money is on the line.

 

[LucidMomentum]

I don't specifically remember what was said during the phone call scene in JW and I didn't really like the movie enough to watch it a second time. Does the mom say that since she's a woman Claire should look for a family and abandon her job? If so, yeah that's eye-roll-worthy.

Yeah the conversation had a line where her sister said "You'll understand when you have kids," and Claire said "if I have kids." Her sister replies, "when, not if!" like it was an inevitability.

Basically the stuff you hear from baby boomer parents, but it sounded odd coming from a woman who was getting a divorce, especially being said to a woman who ran a dinosaur theme park island.

I also agree with the points made that Claire's character was capable, but was constantly being "overruled" by the male characters, I.E. Masrani and Owen. Most notably the part where she's doing her share of the work during the Pterodactyl & hybrid killing spree, and yet the kids make a point to say they want Owen to keep them safe.

 

[Goodstyle]

Wow, I'm imagining this movie as being about one ambitious and well-balanced human beings surrounded by a bunch of jagoffs taking things too far and it actually sounds fun and interesting.

Imagine if this movie was advertised as something that starred Pratt and Howard, but the assistant ended up at as the star and this movie ended being this bold and creative romp instead of the generic 90s cheesecake that it was.

 

[DanteGhost]

Nerd males getting defensive about the obvious bias against women in their beloved cultural references is my favorite drug. I just love witnessing thier worldview being challenged.

Well I mean, you are posting in Gaf, I wonder if it is the OTHER way around...

And I just don't see the bias against women. My wife is a feminist and she fucking loves this movie. Christ, is like they can't find something to complain about.

 

[Parallax]

Also, apparently, this movie believes its ok to place a lot of human lives in danger as long as money is on the line.

Thats the one consistent thing in jurassic park

 

[Fancy Clown]

I don't specifically remember what was said during the phone call scene in JW and I didn't really like the movie enough to watch it a second time. Does the mom say that since she's a woman Claire should look for a family and abandon her job? If so, yeah that's eye-roll-worthy.

If JP is sexist with the exact same content outside a swapping of the genders, then it's being perceived as sexist for reasons that exist outside of the work itself. But I like your answer because it often highlights a tricky area that can differ depending on the person looking at it: when is something meant to be applied to an individual character, and when is something meant to be a comment that expands beyond the character into a general statement. For you Sam Neil's character arc is meant to be contained specifically to his character whereas BDH stands for all women. I find that interesting in respect to how the public digests fiction.

It's certainly a complex situation. As for Neil's character arc vs BDH as per individuality vs societal I feel that way regardless of the gender. My stance on that is because Sam's characters dislike of kids is really sort of self contained, whereas for BDH other characters constantly reinforce that she is being atypical to her role in society specifically because of gender (again the phone call is a good example where her sister pities her for not having kids and says something like "don't worry you will" where it's a clear gendered bond between characters commenting on their accepted roles in society). Well, I guess I don't soley divorce it from gender becuase Hollywood films typically tend to have diverse developed male characters representing a plethora of accepted male types, and one developed female lead that genreally represents the patriarchal typification of the ideal woman.

 

[TwoDurans]

Did no one wish for the margarita guy to get killed? I get that he's got priorities, but come on.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Thats quite the introspective way of expressing kids getting mercilessly slaughtered

I blame it on all the film theory I took in college

 

[Oemenia]

ya same, I cant remember this death scene

The trick is you have to watch a movie expecting outrage, then you'll remember easy.

 

[LucidMomentum]

Wow, I'm imagining this movie as being about one ambitious and well-balanced human beings surrounded by a bunch of jagoffs taking things too far and it actually sounds fun and interesting.

Imagine if this movie was advertised as something that starred Pratt and Howard, but the assistant ended up at as the star and this movie ended being this bold and creative romp instead of the generic 90s cheesecake that it was.

Yeah that would be great. Having Claire balance the sheer idiocy and hubris of Masrani and Hoskins to save the day while the kids have a minor scuffle yet end up enjoying their time in the park and us getting a look at how Hammond's ideal park would've run could have been interesting, but it seems they were shooting for a remake / revisit of JP1 with a bigger scale, and kind of forgot what made JP1 great in the process, mainly character development.

And I just don't see the bias against women. My wife is a feminist and she fucking loves this movie.

Okay. I'm not a feminist by any formal definition, and I can see the points being made here as valid. That's like saying because Ben Carson doesn't have issues with race in America means all black people shouldn't.

Thats the one consistent thing in jurassic park

Masrani as a CEO / majority investor seems like a complete moron. My company doesn't allow anyone to use their personal vehicles for business travel, car or plane or helicopter. It's unsafe.

Putting people's lives in danger to test the park's systems is also unsafe.

But hubris is a major theme in the JP series. I just wish they made it more believable.

My stance on that is because Sam's characters dislike of kids is really sort of self contained, whereas for BDH other characters constantly reinforce that she is being atypical to her role in society specifically because of gender (again the phone call is a good example where her sister pities her for not having kids and says something like "don't worry you will" where it's a clear gendered bond between characters commenting on their accepted roles in society).

Exactly. In JP1 or JPW, no one scolded the male leads for not wanting to have kids. Heck, in JP1 no one scolded the female leads for it either. But telling Claire to get busy makin' a family and relegating Zara to an incompetent assistant who serves as a nanny the guys have to "escape" from and killing her off in that manner seemed a bit harsh.

A lot of my plot issues stem from the fact that JPW was in operation for years as of the timeline of the movie. Long enough for people to grow bored with the park, even. Why now all of a sudden do people ignore everything that got the park to where it was and throw it away for a test?

The trick is you have to watch a movie expecting outrage, then you'll remember easy.

I watched it opening night, and again on Blu-Ray when my parents wanted to see it.

You're saying you don't remember a full 2 minute scene that has no focus on any character beside Zara where she is picked up by one Pterodactyl, thrown to another, dunked in the pool, picked up, dunked again, and then picked up and almost carried off before the Mosasaurus eats both her and the Pterodactyl?

In terms of deaths, it was the only one long enough to be memorable, let alone the most brutal and cutscene like one in the whole movie.

The only other death that long was with the raptors in JP1, and that was due to the suspense.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I took the film's message as one of 'humans are pretty dumb and will only learn not to screw with certain things the hard way, and even then it will take a few tries'.

But then again, I'm not the type to over analyze a mediocre movie just because I don't like it therefor I have to try and ruin it for everyone else.

If others want to enjoy the movie they have every right to. And, if they feel some of our criticisms ruin that for them, then they can elect to ignore those criticisms.

But OTOH, no one should be so into a story or product, to the point where they shut out constructive criticism of flaws in those works, nor are those of us bringing up the criticisms in the wrong for doing so.

The only people letting the points of dissent ruin the film for them, are actively looking to have the experience ruined anyhow :/

 

[sometimes i game]

Holy shit with this Zara stuff. Dinosaurs do not care about your gender or if you're a good person, and it was a good un-predictable moment. If we only had bad people or people who "deserved it" attacked by dinosaurs, it would be DinoCops: Moral Police and be predictable as fuck.

She doesn't have to deserve it. That's the point!

 

[Fancy Clown]

A lot of my plot issues stem from the fact that JPW was in operation for years as of the timeline of the movie. Long enough for people to grow bored with the park, even. Why now all of a sudden do people ignore everything that got the park to where it was and throw it away for a test?

They didn't even demonstrate that people were jaded to the park well at all either. Everyone was going nuts to see the T-Rex and other old dinos they were supposedly tired of. They only showed this with the mopey teen character who could have just been distracted because his parents are going through a divorce and he wants to hit on girls, and Claire mentioning something about attendence or stock falling when they don't innovate but that's not good storytelling because it's contrary to everything they show at the park, which is crowded with people fucking stoked to see dinosaurs. Even the mopey teen starts to get into it.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

If you gender swap the whole film (and project your view of woman onto them), IT STILL HATES WOMEN!

Of course Mrs. Masrani only cares about the feelings of the animals and not the actual business side of things. Oh and of course she can't fly. JW hates women.

Oh look, the perfectly capable, military trained woman just HAD to be saved by a man from the pteranadon attack.

Look at the cute quirky fan girl decorating her desk. How cliche.

I could keep going.

Are the tropes the issue? Or is it the people looking for these flaws in everything?

 

[Toxi]

Jurassic World is the sort of stupid movie where the more you think about it, the more you dislike it. Without the badass fight at the end, I would probably consider it the worst Jurassic Park movie, and that's quite an achievement with its competition.

Holy shit with this Zara stuff. Dinosaurs do not care about your gender or if you're a good person, and it was a good un-predictable moment. If we only had bad people or people who "deserved it" attacked by dinosaurs, it would be DinoCops: Moral Police and be predictable as fuck.

She doesn't have to deserve it. That's the point!

This is ignoring how movies are structured and how past movies in this series are structured in favor of acting like it's the dinosaurs who actually wrote the movie.

Though as someone else said, that would have probably resulted in a better movie.

The first Godzilla might be a classic film and an interesting allegory about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but it's fucking boring.

Have you actually seen the original Godzilla?

 

[LucidMomentum]

Holy shit with this Zara stuff. Dinosaurs do not care about your gender or if you're a good person, and it was a good un-predictable moment. If we only had bad people or people who "deserved it" attacked by dinosaurs, it would be DinoCops: Moral Police and be predictable as fuck.

She doesn't have to deserve it. That's the point!

Yeah, but the writers could serve to care enough to wonder why they gave the main antagonist a quick, off screen 15 second death and the disposable grunts a minute long death scene with some blood and spine snaps, and then Zara a full drawn out death scene in the most out of place, jarring way.

It's like they realized they had no real use for the character and instead of tidying up the plot they just offed her in a horrific way to distract you from that.

You can judge the film by it's internal logic, and then judge it by the external logic of the writers. The two don't have to be inclusive.

They didn't even demonstrate that people were jaded to the park well at all either. Everyone was going nuts to see the T-Rex and other old dinos they were supposedly tired of. They only showed this with the mopey teen character who could have just been distracted because his parents are going through a divorce and he wants to hit on girls, and Claire mentioning something about attendence or stock falling when they don't innovate but that's not good storytelling because it's contrary to everything they show at the park, which is crowded with people fucking stoked to see dinosaurs. Even the mopey teen starts to get into it.

Exactly. It seems they just needed a plot device to introduce the big baddie and show off the corporate hubris as a result. It's kind of like how people who don't like Disneyland say it's a horrible place, yet it's always packed to the gills.

If you gender swap the whole film (and project your view of woman onto them), IT STILL HATES WOMEN!

Of course Mrs. Masrani only cares about the feelings of the animals and not the actual business side of things. Oh and of course she can't fly. JW hates women.

Oh look, the perfectly capable, military trained woman just HAD to be saved by a man from the pteranadon attack.

Look at the cute quirky fan girl decorating her desk. How cliche.

I could keep going.

Are the tropes the issue? Or is it the people looking for these flaws in everything?

1. Masrani is an investor, and as such wouldn't know much about the day-to-day operations of the park. He just got his pilot's license and likes to feel in control of everything. I don't think that would've been made into a trope against women if you gender swap. Why the park operators gave him the time of day during the Indominous escape is still beyond me.

2. That's a common trope both ways - someone thinking they're invincible until they realize that teamwork is helpful. Man/Woman, Woman/Man I don't think it would've made a difference. It's always a bit odd seeing it though, but it usually only happens during swarm scenes where the character is fighting too many enemies. Not really a trope against women.

3. I wouldn't call the desk guy cute, and having stuff on your desk is a trope but not one against women. I have stuff on my desk, no one finds it cliché or quirky.

I think you're reaching a bit here - and maybe the tropes are the issue then, if you can replace most of the cast and still find flaws in the script. It's not so much that we're looking, it's just that on repeat viewings the more glaring flaws stand out on the surface.

 

[Fancy Clown]

If you gender swap the whole film (and project your view of woman onto them), IT STILL HATES WOMEN!

Of course Mrs. Masrani only cares about the feelings of the animals and not the actual business side of things. Oh and of course she can't fly. JW hates women.

Oh look, the perfectly capable, military trained woman just HAD to be saved by a man from the pteranadon attack.

Look at the cute quirky fan girl decorating her desk. How cliche.

I could keep going.

Are the tropes the issue? Or is it the people looking for these flaws in everything?

Nah, because then the film would be populated by tons of female characters who are more developed and have agency, humor, agressiveness, and positions of power so even if you find certain things to call out you'd still be getting a blockbuster that goes against the mold in a big way.

Granted, it would still be a bad movie, but at least it would be a lot more interesting.

 

[Hugstable]

I thought the movie was fun in a turn my brain off kinda way, but yeah the plot itself seems really silly and feels like they didn't put too much thought into it themselves. I think the most ridiculous thing is the fact that main lady never tells the main guy about I-Rex being part Raptor, while the main guy is literally a Raptor trainer that they use to have him use his Raptors which he trained to go after I-Rex. I mean she was around the whole time they were getting the plan into motion, she couldn't just step back and think, hey we are sending a team of raptors against a big smart asshole, who is, SURPRISE ANOTHER RAPTOR!

 

[atr0cious]

If you gender swap the whole film (and project your view of woman onto them), IT STILL HATES WOMEN!

These arguments forget that these claims about the film are based on the real world where our very real culture propogates these ideas. You can't ignore that, it's like saying White Chicks is racist because black dudes did white face. When white people/men are the subjugated/oppressed people, these arguments have merit.

 

[Oemenia]

Nah, because then the film would be populated by tons of female characters who are more developed and have agency, humor, agressiveness, and positions of power so even if you find certain things to call out you'd still be getting a blockbuster that goes against the mold in a big way.

Granted, it would still be a bad movie, but at least it would be a lot more interesting.

Well you should remember that there are NO pressures placed on men in society so anything goes.

 

[Toxi]

If you gender swap the whole film (and project your view of woman onto them), IT STILL HATES WOMEN!

...

Oh look, the perfectly capable, military trained woman just HAD to be saved by a man from the pteranadon attack.

Yeah, just like how people totally hated how Furiosa in Mad Max: Fury Road had to be saved by Max at the end of the movie.

Oh wait they didn't. Huh. It's almost like you're spouting nonsense.

 

[CharminUltra]

Almost five months later we still make fun of this silly movie at work almost daily.

Even Prometheus we only made fun of for about a month and a half afterwards.

 

[LucidMomentum]

I mean she was around the whole time they were getting the plan into motion, she couldn't just step back and think, hey we are sending a team of raptors against a big smart asshole, who is, SURPRISE ANOTHER RAPTOR!

In the plot of the film, they kind of just let Dr. Wu and his department do whatever with little oversight. Hence the lines about it when Masrani tells him to stop operating. I doubt any of them outside of Wu knew about it, and Owen for all his genius with raptors didn't realize it until it was too late. Which is why the whole team was constantly surprised about the camouflage, heat sensing, etc.

They didn't even know about the conflict of interest with Hoskins. They just wanted someone from the original parks.

Well you should remember that there are NO pressures placed on men in society so anything goes.

I don't think there's ever been a movie where a man has been explicitly told that he will have kids some day, despite his objections.

Also it's not like anyone criticized Masrani for leading those grunts to their doom with his shitty piloting skills, yet when Claire is willing to do what she can to help she gets laughed at because she's in high heels and makes her clothing more comfortable. She outperformed Masrani yet she's still pushed aside up until the very end of the film, and even then there's no recognition of her saving them all with the T-Rex assist.

 

[atr0cious]

I don't think there's ever been a movie where a man has been explicitly told that he will have kids some day, despite his objections.

I think Coming To America is the closest we have to a movie plot centered around a man being told to marry, and them "defying" that order. Wanna write a male driven Brave.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Almost five months later we still make fun of this silly movie at work almost daily.

Even Prometheus we only made fun of for about a month and a half afterwards.

Whoa quite the badass. I bet your little bro looks up to you.

 

[Oemenia]

I don't think there's ever been a movie where a man has been explicitly told that he will have kids some day, despite his objections.

Unless we start thinking that men beyond the alpha dudes you see in the movies are the only desirable ones, we might start actually some diversity.

 

[sir_kevith]

Whoa quite the badass. I bet your little bro looks up to you.

Whoa you're sensitive.

 

[LucidMomentum]

I think Coming To America is the closest we have to a movie plot centered around a man being told to marry, and them "defying" that order. Wanna write a male driven Brave.

That would be legit. I mean the 40 year old virgin comes to mind as well, being a bit subversive of male tropes and showing the expectations placed on men.

Most of the time the only male tropes that get subverted are the guys "marrying down" like in the case of a prince marrying a common girl. It seems that if guys don't want to marry they're seen as free-spirited and alpha, and the ones that do want to marry are seen as loving and good father figures, whereas women that don't want to get married are seen as "weird" and "just don't know what they want yet."

Sure the "you just haven't met the right person" trope is common among both genders, but it seems a lot more forced upon the females in media than the males.

Aladdin kind of did that plot in reverse well, with the guy changing who he was to appeal / have a chance with a girl he knew, and it not working out so well as a result.

Unless we start thinking that men beyond the alpha dudes you see in the movies are the only desirable ones, we might start actually some diversity.

That's a fair point. That also brings up the point with Lowry the desk guy assuming the girl would want to mack on him since he's staying behind. Also the Owen / Claire kiss too, but that could be seen as a stress situation with added sexual tension, so it doesn't seem as out of nowhere.

Whoa quite the badass. I bet your little bro looks up to you.

Your raptor tears are delicious.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Well you should remember that there are NO pressures placed on men in society so anything goes.

Not sure what you're arguing here. Is this one of those "but MEN have so many representation issues too!" arguments that is brought up whenever people discuss the issue of female representation in media? Because if so that's the same kind of bullshit response as "all lives matter".

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Whoa you're sensitive.

Just having fun, not quite as sensitive as those who came away thinking this movie was anti-women.

 

[CharminUltra]

Whoa quite the badass. I bet your little bro looks up to you.

o.0 Well, that came out of nowhere.

Do you take all mockery directed towards the movie as a personal insult? Because that doesn't seem healthy.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Just having fun, not quite as sensitive as those who came away thinking this movie was anti-women.

You seem to be under the impression the movies are simply mindless entertainment that in no way reflect or shape societies percieved hierarchical values in which case you are blatantly incorrect on. The fact that there are so many people who read the film as sexist is evidence enough, regardless of whether you agree with that reading or not.

 

[LucidMomentum]

Do you take all mockery directed towards the movie as a personal insult? Because that doesn't seem healthy.

No but since he doesn't see the film as anti-women, he sees the people analyzing it and raising the point that it might be as "sensitive," and as such easy targets.

I honestly feel this movie gave the women roles shit all in terms of development or decent writing.

I still point to Fury Road as a decent counter-example of how to do female roles well, with Gone Girl and Edge of Tomorrow also serving as decent examples in recent memory. Heck, even the newest Mission Impossible was better than JW in terms of writing for female roles.

 

[Dr. Malik]

Having Claire be the hero of the movie by saving the so call macho man who is suppose to save the day while running in heels because the actress wanted it that way is not only profound but it is probably the best feminist scene in recent history.

 

[Toxi]

Not sure what you're arguing here. Is this one of those "but MEN have so many representation issues too!" arguments that is brought up whenever people discuss the issue of female representation in media? Because if so that's the same kind of bullshit response as "all lives matter".

I don't think it's as bad as "all lives matter" as a concept, because there is a problem with how men are represented in media. For example, in most action movies all the faceless cannon fodder are male, and in most action movies fatherhood is emphasized as a protective and aloof role rather than a nurturing one.

But

• It's nowhere near as much of a problem as how women are represented. Part of this is that there are more male characters in general and those male characters embody a larger variety of roles. The Bechdel Test exists for a reason; while most movies contain a conversation between two male characters that isn't about a female character, the inverse isn't true.
• Most of the time, people referencing the problems with male representation don't care about actually fixing those problems. It's just deflection.

 

[Japanmanx3]

Completely forgot about that scene. Movie was and is still decent. It's dinosaurs. Eating is what they do.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Having Claire be the hero of the movie by saving the so call macho man who is suppose to save the day while running in heels because the actress wanted it that way is not only profound but it is probably the best feminist scene in recent history.

Thank you.

The audience crying about what is and isn't acceptable for a woman is hypocritical

 

[bengraven]

Again, the writer's intent really has nothing to do with it, and why I'm saying the film is sexist and not the writers. It's all about how the work stands on its own. It's not a metaphor either, it's an ideological stance that is either deliberately, subconsciously, or accidentally placed in the film through themes, narrative, and character development and every movie has an ideology becuase every film is about something beyond just the plot.

And even if you don't read the film this way, you can't deny that there are a lot of people who do. And considering this is one of the most popular pg-13 movies ever, how many young girls and women are going to see this movie and come away with another mainstream reinforcement that their place in society is more important in a family than in their workplace? That's a problem.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this, since it's all about perception.

You can't really determine the validity one way or the other in that stance.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I don't think it's as bad as "all lives matter" as a concept, because there is a problem with how men are represented in media. For example, in most action movies all the faceless cannon fodder are male, and in most action movies fatherhood is emphasized as a protective and aloof role rather than a nurturing one.

But

• It's nowhere near as much of a problem as how women are represented. Part of this is that there are more male characters in general and those male characters embody a larger variety of roles. The Bechdel Test exists for a reason; while most movies contain a conversation between two male characters that isn't about a female character, the inverse isn't true.
• Most of the time, people referencing the problems with male representation don't care about actually fixing those problems. It's just deflection.

I agree, I meant it was the same tract as "all lives matter" because it's used as a deflection when discussing the issues surrounding a marginalized demographic.

 

[MHWilliams]

Please, tell me more about how much MORE brutal that death was.

Zara's death was more brutal and prolonged. Come at me bro.

 

[Valdfellgar]

Thank you.

The audience crying about what is and isn't acceptable for a woman is hypocritical

I get some of their points, and maybe the death scene everyone is so upset about when on a tad too long (I did think it overstayed its welcome) but I have trouble seeing the movie as bad because of it. And it is frustrating when people ignore elements that play against their preferred narrative.

JW doesn't have an amazing depiction of women, but I kinda think it has a modern day accurate depiction of their roles in society (expected to be mothers, I know plenty of women who still think like this) women getting crap for their career oriented goals, etc. It's not a very progressive depiction, but I think it's an accurate one of the current social climate, for better or worse.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Thank you.

The audience crying about what is and isn't acceptable for a woman is hypocritical

This reminds me of when it was revealed Bayonetta's design was drawn by a woman and people still said it was sexist because she was influenced by male bosses and living in a patriarchal society

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I'm pretty sure Zara's death was an homage to a scene from Fantasia.

 

[Fancy Clown]

JW doesn't have an amazing depiction of women, but I kinda think it has a modern day accurate depiction of their roles in society (expected to be mothers, I know plenty of women who still think like this) women getting crap for their career oriented goals, etc. It's not a very progressive depiction, but I think it's an accurate one of the current social climate, for better or worse.

The problem is not that it depicts society like that, but that it reinforces it. The happy ending in the movie is BDH's character turning around and deciding she wants a husband and kids.

 

[Green Mamba]

I'm pretty sure Zara's death was an homage to a scene from Fantasia.

Fantasia' scene is about a squid being batted around by some pterosaurs, and it still had more respect shown to it than Zara had.

 

[Valdfellgar]

The problem is not that it depicts society like that, but that it reinforces it. The happy ending in the movie is BDH's character turning around and deciding she wants a husband and kids.

But is that now wrong that she wants to have kids? I mean, can that now never be a character arc for a woman? Sure it's not progressive, but, I don't think it's awful if that happens, maybe predictable, but not awful.

I dunno, I just can't get outraged about this, she was a pretty strong woman otherwise.