mcz117chief
Member
The one I mentioned is a good dog, the one you mean is a murdering bastard that deserved to get disemboweled. Rarely does a kill feel soooooo good.
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Crappy 'emotional moment' attempts in games
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
The one I mentioned is a good dog, the one you mean is a murdering bastard that deserved to get disemboweled. Rarely does a kill feel soooooo good.
mcz117chief
Member
Jangowuzhere
Banned
Most of the emotional moments in Nier are pretty bad. The characters are well done on paper, but none of it feels organic in the game. The bond between Emil, Kaine, and the father just feels so....forced. You don't spend enough time with them as characters for them to feel like natural friends.
All the humanizing of the shades on the second playthrough is just poorly written. The shades keep saying "You are the true monsters!" and "You're slaughtering the women and children...you monster!" or something like that. That is poorly written dialogue designed to evoke a cheap emotional reaction. There is a way to make that stuff work way better, but the game is so focused on making the player feel like shit. I didn't feel bad, I was just amazed by how ridiculous these situations were. All of it was just a weird misunderstanding, whoops. Also, if the shades can understand the humans, shouldn't they realize that the humans can't hear them? A lot of this talk of humans being "true monsters" and "child killers", but they're too dumb to realize that the humans can't understand them? I don't know, the game just felt like it was trying to get an emotional response from me, but the insanity of it all bogged it down.
MetalGearZed
Member
i love MGS4 but this is a damn funny post because its all true. lmao
I mean his story is sad too
It's one of those "you thought you were absolutely right just as they thought they were absolutely right. Truth is, nobody is right" moments.
That's a paraphrase from Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence by the way.
In times of war I'm sure that natives would blurt out things in their own language while the soldiers from kingdom X came and slaughtered them without an ounce of pity. You just talk because you can talk. They can't understand you? Well that's their problem and your problem as well but humans communicate through language so you say what you can even if the others don't understand.
mcz117chief
Member
No, man, you didn't get it at all.
The shades are the real monsters who can't and refuse to accept what they are so they blame others for their mistakes. You are never supposed to feel bad for them, shade Yonah and Kainé are the only ones who understand that, because they can communicate with both sides. They know that shades are nothing but rapists and mass murderers and no longer should exist, they are just shells of humans who refuse to let go.
And the bonds are very well developed.
Kainé and NieR develop a wonderful bond throughout the game, one of the best I have ever seen, if for no other reason than the fact that it doesn't have a cheap sex cutscene like Bioware games do, but actually you can hear her change of character in her voice and dialogue. And NieR develops a great and very complex bond with Emile due to his age and sexual orientation. Also, Devola and Popola. I personally can't think of many other games that do character development so well with such a diverse cast of characters.
It's story is not sad, it is infuriating. It is just a murdering monster that runs around killing anything it can get it's hands on, including children. It has no redeeming qualities and thus deserved to die more than any character I can think of in any game ever. It is delusional, thinking the stuff that it thinks. The audacity to even ask "What have we done to deserve such fate.", if the king were to understand him he would rip it in half with his bare hands I wager.
The king was absolutely right, he had every right to kill that monster.
But the wolf shade has memories of human coexistence. He deep down does believe that there can be a world where wolves and humans live together in harmony. He's just an animal though so when your fellow pack gets slaughtered you animalistically get revenge. I'm not saying that his side is right but their side is treated poorly as well. It's a difficult conflict although from a human standpoint it's quite clear that "these wolves are feral creatures and they hurt us so we must rid them all. Whereas animals don't think that far and if you inflict pain on them they will return the favor if they are large enough.
I'm probably giving this way too much thought hahaha. But that's just my feeling on that little arc.
GamingOblivion
Banned
lol ok
mcz117chief
Member
You actually aren't giving it enough thought.
The shade has human intellect, it's speech shows as such, it's emotions and actions demonstrate that, besides, shades can only be humans. This shade just took a form of wolf but instead of trying to form a relationship with humans (like some shades tried, like the one in your home village for example) it just went on a rampage throughout the desert region for God knows how many years. It could have easily used a non-verbal communication, being playful around humans or instructing other wolfs never to harm a human, but what happens the moment you enter the desert region? You get attacked by wolves. This was the perfect opportunity for the wolves to begin a communication since NieR and Kainé are new, have no bias towards either side and Kainé can actually understand both humans and shades, but nooooo, they just "kill,maim,burn." and then they are all "but we are not evil 
" fuck 'em.
" fuck 'em.Psychoward
Banned
So what exactly was the point then of the opening that many people seemed to miss? I'm saying this as someone who liked it.
Was cooping with some kid for some reason and he kept telling me to get ready to cry. I laughed super hard.
You actually aren't giving it enough thought.The shade has human intellect, it's speech shows as such, it's emotions and actions demonstrate that, besides, shades can only be humans. This shade just took a form of wolf but instead of trying to form a relationship with humans (like some shades tried, like the one in your home village for example) it just went on a rampage throughout the desert region for God knows how many years. It could have easily used a non-verbal communication, being playful around humans or instructing other wolfs never to harm a human, but what happens the moment you enter the desert region? You get attacked by wolves. This was the perfect opportunity for the wolves to begin a communication since NieR and Kainé are new, have no bias towards either side and Kainé can actually understand both humans and shades, but nooooo, they just "kill,maim,burn." and then they are all "but we are not evil
OK. I can respect that perspective for sure. I have nothing to add.
Poor wolfie T_T
Jangowuzhere
Banned
Pretty sure you are supposed to feel bad when the boy shade and his robot get killed. Same for the wolf pack and when that entire village gets wiped out. Also, the dialogue being spoken of "Don't kill me!" "not the children!" are designed to make you feel guilty.
On paper, the relationship between the characters is amazing. It just did not feel natural in the game. You barely met Emile at the mansion, and yet he's already crying and falling over for Kaine when she sacrifices herself an hour later. It just felt very forced all around.
On paper, the relationship between the characters is amazing. It just did not feel natural in the game. You barely met Emile at the mansion, and yet he's already crying and falling over for Kaine when she sacrifices herself an hour later. It just felt very forced all around.
MetalGearZed
Member
this is the correct answer guys
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Be honest his name was DocSeuss wasn't it?
Psychoward
Banned
That was the one exception. Still brought down a bit by the fact that the older brother didn't let him bring the toy lol
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
RE CV - Steve and his dad, good lord ...
Psychoward
Banned
Context?
Pound_lb003
Member
Came here to post this!
The introduction is the worst writing I've ever read or heard and deserves to be forgotten forever.
I especially despise the unsuccessful and overtly deliberate attempts to engender a feeling of love or familial rapport.
One that is probably less egregious but bothers me the most:
[Just before the mushroom cloud]
Player Character: I love you.
Wife: Shaun and I love you too.
How trite to speak for the child in a disaster. It could happen, but it's shit writing. It's hard to relate to someone who has the time to think about saying I love you in a calm reassuring manner, let alone remembering to include your baby son in the statement.
Player Character: I love you.
Wife: Shaun and I love you too.
How trite to speak for the child in a disaster. It could happen, but it's shit writing. It's hard to relate to someone who has the time to think about saying I love you in a calm reassuring manner, let alone remembering to include your baby son in the statement.
mcz117chief
Member
It is supposed to make you think, not automatically feel guilty. Kainé or Yorda never feel guilty when it comes to shades.
The time spent between events is not fixed. It can be days, weeks or even months where the characters interact but you don't get to see it.
For example when Emile talks how he and Kainé sit around camp fire having a great time
Emil is alone for an unspecified amount of time, it could be years or centuries that he is awake in the new world, blind and alone with only the weird butler Sebastian who is God knows who to keep him company. Then he meets Kainé who understands him and shows him that he is not a monster but a human with a gift, no wonder he immediately forms a strong relationship with her. She also reminds him of Halua, another very strong point.
To Far Away Times
Member
Megaman X4 has a great one with Zero's "what am I fighting for" line.
It makes me laugh every time.
It makes me laugh every time.
Lys Skygge
Member
Made my girlfriend cry *shrugs*
The Last of Us manages to give Joel's daughter a ton of character and life in the short time we know her. By the end of the intro I felt like I had gotten to know a character as a believable person. This makes the death effective and work to make me feel for Joel's loss.
It's not the length of time a character is on screen, but what's been done with that character that is important. They give more depth, detail, and nuance to even the side characters in the Last of Us than most games do for their main characters over the entirety of their games.
It's not the length of time a character is on screen, but what's been done with that character that is important. They give more depth, detail, and nuance to even the side characters in the Last of Us than most games do for their main characters over the entirety of their games.
Unknown.
You actually aren't giving it enough thought.The shade has human intellect, it's speech shows as such, it's emotions and actions demonstrate that, besides, shades can only be humans. This shade just took a form of wolf but instead of trying to form a relationship with humans (like some shades tried, like the one in your home village for example) it just went on a rampage throughout the desert region for God knows how many years. It could have easily used a non-verbal communication, being playful around humans or instructing other wolfs never to harm a human, but what happens the moment you enter the desert region? You get attacked by wolves. This was the perfect opportunity for the wolves to begin a communication since NieR and Kainé are new, have no bias towards either side and Kainé can actually understand both humans and shades, but nooooo, they just "kill,maim,burn." and then they are all "but we are not evil
You're missing something important.
Roc is convinced of his own righteousness, that murdering humans in revenge for the death of wolves and the destruction of their environment is okay, the same way that the Masked Men are convinced that killing wolves is okay. By this point, the conflict has been going on so long that neither group cares about the motivation of the other; they're both the monsters in the dark.
Roc lamenting the fate of his tribe isn't meant to mean that he's an innocent victim, he fucking tears Fyra to pieces for God's sake, but that both sides view themselves as the heroes.
Roc lamenting the fate of his tribe isn't meant to mean that he's an innocent victim, he fucking tears Fyra to pieces for God's sake, but that both sides view themselves as the heroes.
The point of NieR isn't that
we are the real monsters, it's that if you give yourself a good enough reason, and dehumanize your enemy enough, you can kill them without thought.
Bro me and you are like opposite world.
The one game that jumped into my mind as the perfect example of an emotionally crappy moment and a sad attempt was Maria / Dom in Gears 2. I don't know how you can even argue for that scene unless a loved one of yours just recently was kidnapped and subjected to weird Locust experiments for years on end and you finally found them in Virginia City as a shell of their former self.
Yeah, this would have been my answer. My sister and I were laughing while being appalled by this scene. I'm baffled that Feminist Frequency has never cited this scene as what's wrong with the treatment of female characters in games (and I generally don't like those videos).
Dom literally goes from eager to rescue his wife to "putting her down" because she wasn't immediately this betty crocker ideal housewife with a tray of treats waiting...that's literally the juxtaposition of images in his head during her reveal. Then, no psych consult, no emergency care, no effort to send her to the surface with the other survivors. She's his property, he found her, she's "broken"...bullet to the brain.
Psychoward
Banned
And how did they do that exactly?
mcz117chief
Member
I am well aware of that fact but you can't blame humans for killing wolves when humans never encountered any other wolves besides the one who are ferocious wild animals. Would you not kill a wolf that would try to kill you? There is no moral ambiguity here, wolves are feral, vicious, carnivorous animals that have been hunting men since the dawn of time, you can't expect humans to suddenly be like "oh, well maybe these wolves are different and just want to hang out." Well, maybe People of the Mask would do that if the retard would try to communicate with them. That would be like saying that killing mosquitoes is wrong because there is one leader mosquito who wants to help mankind but just sucks at it.
lol, "sucks" at it 
Yup, that's right on the money. But once you realise what is going on dehumanising your enemies in NieR is pretty easy.
I am well aware of that fact but you can't blame humans for killing wolves when humans never encountered any other wolves besides the one who are ferocious wild animals. Would you not kill a wolf that would try to kill you? There is no moral ambiguity here, wolves are feral, vicious, carnivorous animals that have been hunting men since the dawn of time, you can't expect humans to suddenly be like "oh, well maybe these wolves are different and just want to hang out." Well, maybe People of the Mask would do that if the retard would try to communicate with them. That would be like saying that killing mosquitoes is wrong because there is one leader mosquito who wants to help mankind but just sucks at it.lol, "sucks" at it
And how many times have the people of the Mask killed wolves without prompting? Literally the final conflict starts because they slaughtered tons of them on the off chance they'd interfere with the wedding. When did this start? Who has more cause to fear the other, and does it matter?
Like the Shades, you kill the wolves because they're there. It doesn't matter why they're coming after you, the same reason it doesn't matter to them why you're there; they're the enemy. Kill it.
Like the Shades, you kill the wolves because they're there. It doesn't matter why they're coming after you, the same reason it doesn't matter to them why you're there; they're the enemy. Kill it.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Bro me and you are like opposite world.
The one game that jumped into my mind as the perfect example of an emotionally crappy moment and a sad attempt was Maria / Dom in Gears 2. I don't know how you can even argue for that scene unless a loved one of yours just recently was kidnapped and subjected to weird Locust experiments for years on end and you finally found them in Virginia City as a shell of their former self.
The scene would have been better, but Dom's voice delivery is horrendously bad to the point that there's no emotional impact in the scene. It just sounds like he's completely indifferent and, honestly, I remember playing it for the first time, getting to that scene and thinking nothing of it because, honestly, no one on the development or acting side seemed to. It's also a completely out of place scene like any attempt at emotion in Gears of War. Gears of War doesn't handle any emotion that isn't over the top machismo well at all.
Pound_lb003
Member
I think that's why I liked RDR so much. And why I disagree with Jonathan Blow. John Marston was not supposed to be morally upright protagonist. He was a bad guy, his objective was to see his family again.
There was never any manipulation regarding how much you should CARE about John's family. Hell, it's not even clear if you will actually see your family again. It's the character's objective and that is all.
So I wouldn't go as far as to say it's Brechtian, because it was foreshadowed as each of his former riding partners bit the dust. And by the end of it you could feel the law biting at his heels. But they DID kill off the protagonist, he didn't ride off into the sunset with his family.
Honestly, as far as games go to ground mass murdered, I think Red Dead did a mighty fine job.
Scully Scully Scoo
Member
Her being lobotomized probably didn't give him much hope for anything. He literally says he didn't know what to do, and then Marcus gives him that "knowing" look and walks away. I saw it as putting her out of her misery. She's brain-dead.
The Last Of Us, all of it. Highly manipulative, non interactive cutscenes.
Walking Dead, pretty much any character death considering I tried to save everyone and the game would just be like "whoops they still died". All TellTale games actually.
Undertale, attempting to build up some sort of emotional reaction to the random goat lady tutorial giver by having her be a 'supposed to win' boss battle.
Walking Dead, pretty much any character death considering I tried to save everyone and the game would just be like "whoops they still died". All TellTale games actually.
Undertale, attempting to build up some sort of emotional reaction to the random goat lady tutorial giver by having her be a 'supposed to win' boss battle.
For me it was making you play as Sarah first. Not only does inhabiting a character help create empathy, but exploring her room seeing.all the posters,soccer trophies etc. helped define her as a character. The scene with Joel at the start was also very well done.
Psychoward
Banned
That scene sucked but not because of this.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
Kaine had a screwed up childhood which made her hate shades and want revenge. She's also corrupted by some demon shade dude inside her. She has a warped sense of morality. Pretty sure we're not supposed to think like her. Also, there are a few times where she voices her guilt in killing shades.
I don't know, the relationship thing is very subjective. Again, I'm not denying that there are powerful character moments in the game, I simply found the presentation to be lacking. Not getting a feel for how much time is passing does not help.
MetalGearZed
Member
you really need to see all of it but for some reason 2K wanted to a full blown story for this game and have Spike Lee direct. long story short, the story flops around through numerous cringe worthy moments, cliche dialogue and ultimately predictable character arcs.....its too much and it ends with this very awkward,terribly long, unearned "emotional payoff" scene. its gold really. its like one of those after-school specials that take themselves too seriously. lol
mcz117chief
Member
population control, we do that now all the time, nothing wrong with that. Especially when you have such a dangerous species running around.
Her childhood has nothing to do with shades, it has everything to do with the fact that she was shunned and bullied because of how she was "born". Her hate for shades began when they murdered her grandmother and possessed her. I honestly don't remember any moment when she felt guilty for killing shades, only Tyrann is teasing her like that sometimes that she should feel guilty, but he is just being sarcastic, like here.
MetalGearZed
Member
holy shit 1h59m lol! some characters can be likable but its all sour rubbish
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Got through the first 4 minutes. They talk like those idiots at the Qualcomm. Like it's some kind of parody. No way Spike Lee approved those lines of dialogue. NO WAY. This must have been outsourced to China and they gave the team there some Fresh Prince of Bel Air seasons along with some 2Pac flix and then told them "OK now write a story of a kid growing up in the projects who makes it to the big leagues."
What makes the lives of the Replicants inherently worth more than the wolves? They aren't even real humans. They're dolls made to hang around until the Shades can start taking their property back.
It wasn't the wolves who turned Facade into a desert. It was people.
It wasn't the wolves who turned Facade into a desert. It was people.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
I can't believe people are calling out the intro to The Last of Us. In my opinion, that's one of the very few best examples of using emotion effectively. The voice acting on that little girl was heartbreaking during that sequence.
GatticusFinch
Member
When 99.9% of emotional attempts in video games are cringe-inducing trainwrecks, calling out The Last of Us is a bit of a stretch.