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[redcrayon]

Disliking something for artistic reasons and being labeled a homophobe for it. That one is always fun to see.

What was the thing being disliked for artistic reasons?

 

[Fj0823]

Going to the movies dressed as a Pokemon Trainer, Brendan hat included.

The movie he saw was Rogue One

 

[jax]

Some wowhead told me smash bros was a kids game and that I was a freak for playing nintendo games. This dude pours hours into cod and wow. (In 2016.) Needless to say, I fired him.

Can't have people who verbally judge other people like that working for me.

Hope it was worth it.

 

[Grief.exe]

I walked into a classroom the other day and this dude was praising the god awful Shadow the hedgehog intro as something that was incredibly badass. You can imagine my reaction after I asked what was up with that? And he went on a long rant about how Shadow is some deep character that many people don't understand.

EDIT:To go more indepth, the guy despite comments from others was very loudly playing the intro and went on a long rant in front of everyone, (trying to complete work mind you), about how well written the characters were.

My jaw was on the floor for that entire video.

Some wowhead told me smash bros was a kids game and that I was a freak for playing nintendo games. This dude pours hours into cod and wow. (In 2016.) Needless to say, I fired him.

Can't have people who verbally judge other people like that working for me.

Hope it was worth it.

WOW skews to older demographics, but COD is clearly targeted at teenagers.

 

[bjork]

Some wowhead told me smash bros was a kids game and that I was a freak for playing nintendo games. This dude pours hours into cod and wow. (In 2016.) Needless to say, I fired him.

Can't have people who verbally judge other people like that working for me.

Hope it was worth it.

Huh. That wasn't where my brain saw the story going, but ok.

 

[ViolentP]

What was the thing being disliked for artistic reasons?

Most recent case being Ellie from Last of Us 2. Apparently, if you don't like the new design, you're a homophobe for some reason. I remember when you could simply dislike something without having a label put on you. I find the whole thing sad and desperate.

 

[jax]

WOW skews to older demographics, but COD is clearly targeted at teenagers.

Yeah, if he weren't a gamer, or just was less of a jerk about his preferences, I wouldn't have worried about it. But he is a gamer, and he plays games that are notoriously marketed towards a younger audience. So he's a hypocrite. So he had to find another job.

Spoiler

he was also a terrible employee. That rudeness didn't stop at video games. He was rude to everyone he encountered. I had multiple complaints on him when this happened. This was just the final straw.

 

[shark sandwich]

Not exactly in person, but I remember Tommy Tallarico (probably spelled that wrong) from G4 giving Bomberman 64 a horrible score because it had cartoony graphics.

I bet he was thrilled with Bomberman 360.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Most recent case being Ellie from Last of Us 2. Apparently, if you don't like the new design, you're a homophobe for some reason. I remember when you could simply dislike something without having a label put on you. I find the whole thing sad and desperate.

Bullshit. You realize the whole reason people were calling out the homophobia was because there was pretty overt homophobia and sexism with those posts what with people saying she was a lesbian stereotype and had a manly jaw and hands. Saying the artist designed Ellie as a "lesbian stereotype" reeks of homophobia. There's nothing that screams lesbian stereotype about this design

 

[Iva Demilcol]

Calling out others for liking something.

BrutalSavageRekt.gif

 

[Permanently A]

Alright this is a pretty amusing story at my expense.

So in high school we did this cool project on time travel for English class. The goal was to make a presentation on different types of media and how they portrayed time travel. Me an my friend being huge nerds chose video games. I decided to do Braid, because I thought the twist on the Mario formula was immediately understandable and accessible. My friend decided to do Kingdom Hearts 3D which had just come out. I played that entire game to completion and still don't know what that story was about, and thought it was a horrible choice for a 5 minute presentation, but whatever. The day of the presentation I do my thing and thought it went well. Then my friend starts his and busts out a fucking massive flowchart and begins explaining the Kingdom Hearts storyline from beginning to end, including complementary cutscenes that sounded really cool as a kid and not so much now. I was basically trying to melt into the wall as I watched the class become more and more confused. Even after the class people were like "what was up with that Disney game lol" I guess the joke is on me though, because a week later for no apparent reason the professor eviscerated me in front of the class saying "You should have put more work in like *friend name,* he had a flowchart." Even my friend was like "yeah I dunno man"

Guess the moral of the story is I'm insecure about my love for video games and I see things that aren't really cringe as cringe.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

In English class, when I was fresh into school at the age of 12 years old, we all had to write a short speech about something we liked, and speak it to the whole class.

Being of that age, I decided to do my talk on

Spoiler

Broly

. I can only imagine the insurmountable amount of cringe I inflicted on the class that day, but then, I was blind to it.

dont worry, on PE i used to run like Goku on Dragon Ball. i thought i would run faster that way.

 

[ViolentP]

Bullshit. You realize the whole reason people were calling out the homophobia was because there was pretty overt homophobia and sexism with those posts. Saying the artist designed Ellie as a "lesbian stereotype" reeks of homophobia. There's nothing that screams lesbian stereotype about this design

Guess what? Sometimes an opinion is just an opinion. Justify the shitty reactions to it as you wish. But it's still pretty sad.

 

[tapedeck]

I used to run official Pokemon tournaments (its all sanctioned and you get prizes and points to go to higher competitions) and this guy used to come, claimed he had women 'eating out of the palm of his hand' and constantly bragging shit about his sexual prowess in front of the younger kids we had attending league sessions and tournaments and that.

We had a new girl show up, which was kinda rare, she was real nice and real good at the game and all. Bragging guy was paired up against her in round 3 or whatever, she beat him easy, and he fucking exploded 'I DIDN'T GET BEAT BY A GIRL SHE CHEATED, FUCKING BITCH' I was getting in telling him to call down or he'd be getting disqualified, but he was going mad. She very gracefully agreed to redo the match to placate him, she beat him again, and he was fucking bouncing off the walls 'FUCKING SLIMY BITCH, SHE WAS FLASHING HER TITS AT ME DISTRACTING ME SHE SHOULD BE DISQUALIFIED' And in the end, he was disqualified and we never saw him again.


Thats top of my list.

Wow.

 

[jax]

I used to run official Pokemon tournaments (its all sanctioned and you get prizes and points to go to higher competitions) and this guy used to come, claimed he had women 'eating out of the palm of his hand' and constantly bragging shit about his sexual prowess in front of the younger kids we had attending league sessions and tournaments and that.

We had a new girl show up, which was kinda rare, she was real nice and real good at the game and all. Bragging guy was paired up against her in round 3 or whatever, she beat him easy, and he fucking exploded 'I DIDN'T GET BEAT BY A GIRL SHE CHEATED, FUCKING BITCH' I was getting in telling him to call down or he'd be getting disqualified, but he was going mad. She very gracefully agreed to redo the match to placate him, she beat him again, and he was fucking bouncing off the walls 'FUCKING SLIMY BITCH, SHE WAS FLASHING HER TITS AT ME DISTRACTING ME SHE SHOULD BE DISQUALIFIED' And in the end, he was disqualified and we never saw him again.


Thats top of my list.

I wonder if that person is just a full on gamergater now

 

[dlauv]

Haha, one time a friend of ours went to a Smash Bros. tournament with us. He wore gloves while he played because they "slowed down his reflexes," implying that he's too fast to play correctly otherwise.

Another time some guy chased us around Gamestop telling us, completely unsolicited, the intricacies of FFX's "Overdrive!!!"

 

[nkarafo]

Well, everything the Sonic fandom does is cringe.

 

[Blues1990]

Someone explaining to me why they think Camilla (Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest) is the tits in every uncomfortable detail.

Cool that you "like" the character, but I just want to buy my game & go home, man. :/

 

[Sadist]

Some teens mocking kids for the games they like, in a store. In front of the kids their moms.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Guess what? Sometimes an opinion is just an opinion. Justify the shitty reactions to it as you wish. But it's still pretty sad.

And sometimes, (a lot of the time with this medium, it's audience, and concerning humanized female character design especially), opinions are laced with sexism and if Ellie wasn't canonically a lesbian no one would even suggest that she looks like a lesbian stereotype, when even shoulder length hair is considered a lesbian stereotype there's a huge issue on the part of whoever holds such an opinion when it comes to their views of lesbians and what'd they typically would look like:

Spoiler

Like normal people with no defining characteristics

. Especially when it comes to women looking and acting more like actual women instead of pinup models.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Having someone get actually angry in real life about the Xbox One DRM around the time of the introduction. Time to take a step back and just get a PlayStation if it gets you so upset, dude.

 

[Ambient80]

CEO sends out email saying there is cake in the cafeteria for the company's 10th anniversary party.

(Some) Gamers: "THE CAKE IS A LIE HEUEHUEHEUEHEHEHEHEUEHEUHUEUEHEUEH"

I should add, their reply (probably four of them) were all sent as Reply All.

 

[Ichabod]

Back when we still gave a shit about Halo and Call of Duty midnight releases, some old college buddies and I (separated now by hundreds of miles), always had one mission: get in, get a copy of whatever the new hotness was, and gtfo asap so we could hop online and start wrecking shit. Over the years we've seen some interesting sights at our respective midnight release destinations and I think we came to relish the stories of release night crowds as much as the actual games themselves.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Some girl at uni was almost screaming at me for liking FF VIII. Kinda odd.

 

[III-V]

Bullshit. You realize the whole reason people were calling out the homophobia was because there was pretty overt homophobia and sexism with those posts what with people saying she was a lesbian stereotype and had a manly jaw and hands. Saying the artist designed Ellie as a "lesbian stereotype" reeks of homophobia. There's nothing that screams lesbian stereotype about this design

Ellie looks like a girl who has been on the streets for a while - look at the transformation between her as a young girl in school to this. This is real and quite believable. Very nicely done.

 

[CharminUltra]

Back when I worked at Target (circa mid 2000s), I once saw this dude (he was about 25-ish) catch a glimpse of the Sony/Playstation rep at the electronics department and go absolutely bonkers.

He literally dashed over to the rep, shook his hand furiously, introduced himself as Scott something, and then proceeded to gush about the brand so excitedly and loudly that everyone in the area turned around to stare. He asked the rep if he was friends with Ken Kutaragi and Hideo Kojima and then tried to squeeze some insider info out of him. It ended with the guy asking the rep about applying for a game designer position at SCE Japan proper because moving to Japan was his life dream or something.

It was the single most bizarre video game-related experience I'd ever had up til that point and still gets a chuckle out of me to this day.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Someone explaining to me why they think Camilla (Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest) is the tits in every uncomfortable detail.

Cool that you "like" the character, but I just want to buy my game & go home, man. :/

This reminds me a roommate of mine a year ago kept incredibly disturbing figurines from a jrpg series that looked like literal children dressed in lingerie directly on his work desk in our home. Like dude why do I have to explain why this is an issue? :|

 

[PeterGAF]

Some wowhead told me smash bros was a kids game and that I was a freak for playing nintendo games. This dude pours hours into cod and wow. (In 2016.) Needless to say, I fired him.

Can't have people who verbally judge other people like that working for me.

Hope it was worth it.

Um...

 

[ViolentP]

And sometimes, (a lot of the time with this medium, it's audience, and concerning humanized female character design especially), opinions are laced with sexism and if Ellie wasn't canonically a lesbian no one would even suggest that she looks like a lesbian stereotype, when even shoulder length hair is considered a lesbian stereotype there's a huge issue on the part of whoever holds such an opinion when it comes to their views of lesbians and what'd they typically would look like:

Spoiler

Like normal people with no defining characteristics

. Especially when it comes to women looking and acting more like actual women instead of pinup models.

I understand where you are at, but I do think there is a leap in logic here. Specifically in thinking you understand why they have issue with the design. If you believe it's simply because she's been humanized and not slutted-up, yeah, you would think it was homophobic. But sometimes it's the humanized design and not the choice to humanize that is the issue.

Point is, it's possible to not like something for what it is and not what it represents. I think far too often the two are lumped together and that is wrong.

 

[broscientific]

Guess what? Sometimes an opinion is just an opinion. Justify the shitty reactions to it as you wish. But it's still pretty sad.

There are plenty of people who dislike something for "artistic reasons" to hide their racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. And many don't even realize they're doing it.

 

[Cepheus]

People older than me not knowing what deodorant is, for a start. Also, my ex-friend-turned-white-supremacist used to shout out completely random game references out of context during gaming society meets at uni last year. Like doing awful TF2 Medic impressions while the organisers were speaking. He was also absolutely obsessed with Five Nights At Freddy's (speaks for itself, really) and had a really bad-looking cosplay outfit of one of the robots consisting of a paper mache head and a towel. Which he wore to one of the meetups. I was embarrassed to be around him most of the time.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Um...

If there was a cringeworthy post thread, he'd have made it.

 

[ViolentP]

There are plenty of people who dislike something for "artistic reasons" to hide their racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. And many don't even realize they're doing it.

And there are plenty of people who genuinely dislike it for purely artistic reasons. Point is, they shouldn't be judged until we know there is something there to be judged.

 

[Sayad]

Well, that was quite the backfire!

 

[Crossing Eden]

I understand where you are at, but I do think there is a leap in logic here. Specifically in thinking you understand why they have issue with the design. If you believe it's simply because she's been humanized and not slutted-up, yeah, you would think it was homophobic. But sometimes it's the humanized design and not the choice to humanize that is the issue.

Point is, it's possible to not like something for what it is and not what it represents. I think far too often the two are lumped together and that is wrong.

The problem is that the dude viewed that artwork as her having a manly jaw, no hips, and manly hands, none of which are true especially in that artwork, followed by the assertion that all of these things must be a combined effort to make a lesbian stereotype. Lesbians like most LBGT look like regular people. Ellie looks like a regular person.

 

[pizzacat]

Some wowhead told me smash bros was a kids game and that I was a freak for playing nintendo games. This dude pours hours into cod and wow. (In 2016.) Needless to say, I fired him.

Can't have people who verbally judge other people like that working for me.

Hope it was worth it.

Wat

 

[Iva Demilcol]

Okay, I just remembered something:

First of all let me tell you this was real and I am not making up anything.

I go in the school cafeteria and see a dude cosplaying as Ash Ketchum, he also has a bunch of printed stuff with him filled with numbers, in front of him there are two guys and he gives them instructions, they are role playing, which is okay, I guess. Every time they encounter a Pokémon, the guy dressed as Ash takes out a plushie or a toy out of his bag and (wait for it) imitates the cry of the pokemon. They keep going at it even after I leave.

Now, let me tell you we aren't talking about kids: the guys roleplaying were college students, so we are talking about three 20 something y. o. dudes, one of them dressed as Ash Ketchum making the cries of pokemons while playing with plushies or toys and the other two giving orders to their own pokemons.

 

[jax]

Um...

Key word is verbally. No one asked him what his opinion was on Nintendo games. He was just being a jerk. The only reason I brought up the games he plays is to show that he too is a gamer, so he's a hypocrite.

 

[ViolentP]

The problem is that the dude viewed that artwork as her having a manly jaw, no hips, and manly hands, none of which are true, followed by the assertion that all of these things must be a combined effort to make a lesbian stereotype. Lesbians like most LBGT look like regular people. Ellie looks like a regular person.

And I support that person being called out on their ignorance. Those aren't the instances I take issue with.

And you and I are discussing this issue, but I'm not speaking of you when I decided to bring this up, so no disrespect intended. I just think terms like homophobe and misogynist are used a little frivolously these days.

 

[MCN]

Okay, I just remembered something:

First of all let me tell you this was real and I am not making up anything.

I go in the school cafeteria and see a dude cosplaying as Ash Ketchum, he also has a bunch of printed stuff with him filled with numbers, in front of him there are two guys and he gives them instructions, they are role playing, which is okay, I guess. Every time they encounter a Pokémon, the guy dressed as Ash takes out a plushie or a toy out of his bag and (wait for it) imitates the cry of the pokemon. They keep going at it even after I leave.

Now, let me tell you we aren't talking about kids: the guys roleplaying were college students, so we are talking about three 20 somethings dudes, one of them dressed as Ash Ketchum making the cries of pokemons while playing with pliegues or toys and the other kids giving orders to their own pokemons.

That sounds kinda fun.

 

[Crossing Eden]

And I support that person being called out on their ignorance. Those aren't the instances I take issue with.

And you and I are discussing this issue, but I'm not speaking of you when I decided to bring this up, so no disrespect intended. I just think terms like homophobe and misogynist are used a little frivolously these days.

Because people are quite fed up with how ingrained these things are in the gaming community. Especially outside of GAF.

 

[timmyp53]

Some wowhead told me smash bros was a kids game and that I was a freak for playing nintendo games. This dude pours hours into cod and wow. (In 2016.) Needless to say, I fired him.

Can't have people who verbally judge other people like that working for me.

Hope it was worth it.

That wasn't the only reason you fired him right?

 

[Palmer27]

Not fucking shower

My uni runs a game design course, there's a gaming pc 'lab'/room and a sign on the door reminds people to shower. I went in there once and there was just some guy in the corner being a prick lecturing other teammates on overwatch how to play properly.

 

[jax]

That wasn't the only reason you fired him right?

He was caught hacking the work wifi as well as a huge number of other things. The Nintendo stuff happened after I had already decided to fire him. It just pushed the date closer.

 

[N° 2048]

He was caught hacking the work wifi as well as a huge number of other things. The Nintendo stuff happened after I had already decided to fire him. It just pushed the date closer.

 

[ViolentP]

Because people are quite fed up with how ingrained these things are in the gaming community. Especially outside of GAF.

I get that. But it's no excuse. No ones actions should dictate the way we act. More so when you are trying to educate someone. If you sink to their level and start spewing anger, your message is lost. No loss to them, but a big loss for what is being fought for.

 

[PeterGAF]

Key word is verbally. No one asked him what his opinion was on Nintendo games. He was just being a jerk. The only reason I brought up the games he plays is to show that he too is a gamer, so he's a hypocrite.

You referred to the guy as a "wowhead" and had to specify he was still playing these games in 2016. We know what you were trying to say.

Just because you're not making your judgements verbally doesn't make them ok. For example, if someone is secretly racist their still a racist even if they're not yelling it out loud.

 

[jax]

Hahaha. But yeah. He would brag about hacking it and show his coworkers what other people were doing online. He was also very rude to everyone, lost us a ton in sales. He was not a good employee.

You referred to the guy as a "wowhead" and had to specify he was still playing these games in 2016. We know what you were trying to say.

Not negatively? I was trying to paint you a picture of someone who's still playing an old game, assuredly for nostalgia, talking shit about someone playing other games for nostalgia. If I didn't tell you which games he liked, it wouldn't show how hypocritical he was. I didn't know "wowhead" was offensive. My bad.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I get that. But it's no excuse. No ones actions should dictate the way we act. More so when you are trying to educate someone. If you sink to their level and start spewing anger, your message is lost. No loss to them, but a big loss for what is being fought for.

These two posts outline why that logic doesn't work quite well.

I take no offense, and I understand what you mean. I think the aggressiveness comes from the fact that a lot of questions about the same subjects over and over, particularly in threads that have already extensively covered the answers, can come across as being disingenuously asked or implicating an ulterior motive on part of the minority group(s) being discussed. There is an inherent element of defensiveness on part of minorities in terms of educating people on issues of inequality because there has historically been an overwhelming expectation that minorities are supposed to be infinitely charitable even in the face of dehumanization, that we're always supposed to take bigotry and casual ignorance as a teachable moment and just never get fed up with the insurmountable wave of people who just don't "get it," because to just throw our hands up would in turn be a moral condemnation.

For example, there was a noted rush in the media to get the victims of the Charleston Church massacre to offer forgiveness to Dylann Roof and hold them up as an example of black excellence, mostly to stand in contrast to political unrest and protests being conducted by BLM. It in turn comes across as a backlash against acknowledging the racial problems of this country, as if people were pulling their shirt collars while saying "So yeah, uh, there was a white supremacist attack on your people at a historical black church...that brings up bad memories, but we're cool right?!".

And just like the white people who were wringing their hands about how on-the-nose the attack was in terms of historical context, who were scared about what a lack of forgiveness would have said about the nation's character, so too do the deflections away from Judd's overarching point into the irrelevant minutiae of her characterization of the industry in order to discredit her, and the attempts by men in this thread to paint themselves as "marginalized gamers-" the real victims- come across as doth protesting too much, an unnecessary, almost infantile reaction to having to acknowledge a problem and reconcile that with what that may or may not say about the moral character of anyone who plays games that can be criticized as sexist.

This gets tiring as hell. No one wants to explain what should be self-evident and be the bigger person all the time, especially to people who enter a conversation with pistols drawn and without any marked demonstration that they've researched the basics of the issue beforehand. People, particularly straight male gamers, need to understand that communication is a two-way street and patience is a finite resource. Minorities are not saints and should not be expected to be. So if people desire for minorities and their allies to be less abrasive to people in majority groups who don't have firsthand experience of what it's like to be a woman or black or gay or whatever else, there needs to be an earnest attempt on part of majority groups to pick up the slack on their own and ask questions that aren't demonstrable of a lack of prior engagement and thus are borderline insulting.

"Where is this misogyny in the gaming community?!!" and any of its variants are, honestly, stupid-ass questions whose answers can be gleaned from just cursory reading about the subject through a Google search or an appropriate NeoGAF thread, and its sincerity doesn't improve when it's coupled with ostracizing othering shit like "This is why outsiders shouldn't talk about games!" However, CrustyBritches' question of "What kinds of solutions do you have for improving representation of women?" is a GREAT question because it recognizes the problem and shows an earnest interest in hearing ideas from the horse's mouth. This is a real conversation to be had. I can work with this. I can educate someone who is curious. I can't educate someone who denies the problem and is overtly hostile on top of it.

There are several reasons for this.

1) A very high percentage of those who purport to have questions actually have already taken a side. This is not immediately apparent, and it's not until they have been engaged and their questions answered (something that a) derails the discussion being had, and b) takes time and energy, more on this later) that their questions become more slanted and reveal them for what they are.

2) When well-intentioned people actually take the time to inform yet another supposed newbie or to dispel the usual myths, thinking they may be at least informing someone, only to have them spit back at them and realizing they've been talking to someone that simply wanted them to talk themselves into something they could disagree with (often simply by way of a strawman), they get burned. They are less likely to engage and answer the questions of a purported "person with questions" the next time.

3) Repeat this cycle literally hundreds of times (each time a thread like this pops out, multiplied by each "curious" person that pops in each), and each time you engage with someone, you have a high chance of getting burned, making you less likely to engage the next.

4) None of these people get anything out of this. Nobody is getting paid nor compensated for their time and energy (huge amounts of it, if we were to address everyone), and we don't even get thanked most of the time. We don't owe anyone to inform them, we are not salespeople for societal awareness. If somebody is truly invested in understanding what life is like for other people outside their gender/race/sexual orientation, and what challenges they face, the Internet is full of resources to get informed without burdening others with their education. If one can't get bothered to do that, it's very unlikely they can get bothered to change their minds anyway, because that takes much more effort. In fact, if you don't show the empathy to realize someone else might not be interested, that's already a sign you might not have the empathy needed to give a shit about minorities or sexism in the first place.

I linked to it above, but it bears repeating: this article should address your observations in full.

Edit: And also Nepenthe's excellent post above mine, which I hadn't seen.

I get what you're saying specifically. I was just making a rebuttal to the idea that criticizing Ellie's design genuinely will get you called a homophobe, context definitely matters and in that context it was being called out for what it was.

 

[13ruce]

Videogame tattoo's

I kid i have a Imp Midna and Wolf Link Tattoo.

Really though the Nintendo games are for kids only statement is the dumbest imo and the console war fights they even happen in real life from time to time. One of my friend groups is anti PS the other anti Xbox.