The 2D New Super Mario games look sterile. When I played the first level of Sonic Generations, I was blown away by the graphic design (using OG Sonic).
NSMB looks like a turd that Sonic pooped out. Not that it affected sales in the least.
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Critical Consensus: Wii U (GameIndustry.biz)
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
The 2D New Super Mario games look sterile. When I played the first level of Sonic Generations, I was blown away by the graphic design (using OG Sonic).
NSMB looks like a turd that Sonic pooped out. Not that it affected sales in the least.
That's one way to put it.
I don't agree that the 16-bit era 2D Mario games are sterile, however. Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island are still lovely games with very smart art and sound direction.
There's no doubt that Sonic Generations is a stunner, though. The visuals are absolutely out of this world. NSMB isn't even remotely close.
Sonic Generations was actually one of my favorite games of last year, to be honest, and bests any of the NSMB games in my book (flaws and all). It looks, sounds, and feels more like Sonic should and delivers everything I could have hoped for.
Shit, edited, I meant the New Super Mario series, the classic 8 bit and 16 bit games are treasures.
Alex
Member
I feel like I've had enough, especially when everything looks pretty much identical to the others. I've enjoyed the 2D platformer resurgence but I grew up during the early days where this stuff made up every other game so I'm starting to get the fatigue again and it'll take a lil more effort to get me going. Rayman does indeed look a lot better and I don't even like Rayman
I'll eventually play it and enjoy it, but I'm just not very excited for it, especially when I'd have to plonk down on a brand new machine and it'll probably be sixty dollars as well. I think I'll just get NSMB2 and keep waiting on the Wii-U until it collects about 5-6 appealing games in total and I can start getting some deals on software from buy 2s, reductions, etc.
SolarPowered
Member
Most people were plenty happy with it and that's probably why they don't need to see another one so quickly.
We've seen plenty of Mario for the last half a decade. There is a reason why 91% of the votes on the spike voting polls were more "hyped" about Pikmin 3 than NSMBU. There is a reason why people were expecting big things from Retro and Monolith. People want new IP and different takes on existing properties. Why else would people get so hyped about Starfox, F-Zero, a Retro Zelda(or new IP) or a new IP from Monolith? Shoot, even P-100 is getting a lot of love right now.
I'm sure NSMBU will be a great platformer, but it's probably not the game that people were expecting.
Lord_Byron28
Member
The NSMB series constantly gets hit with these complaints. It's just the nature of the series.
NSMB was a bland and mediocre qualtiy game. NSMBW was a good game with a bland artstyle. NSMBU has plenty of potential to be a great game as well. It has an improved art style and is finally doing a SMW like game. SMW is my favorite 2D game so I'm happy they are finally making what is essentially SMW2 after all these years(YI wasn't SMW2, gameplay wise). This is the 4th iteration of the NSMB series and by now we know that the series isn't striving to be extremely inventive. It is here however to provide a great 2D platforming experience. There are usual small upgrades but I do feel NSMB DS, NSMBW, NSMB2, and NSMBU are distinguishable.
Look at Rayman Legends, everyone has been swooning over that game however it doesn't do anything new(in fact most 2D platformers this gen have done something new). I'm personally looking forward to a great 2D Mario game(when/if ever I get a Wii U) and that is what the series is supposed to be about.
Yeah, this baffles me. NSMB2 looks awful with a coin collecting gimmick.
I confess I do not quite understand the moaning about NSMB U. As others have said, it was probably not realistic to have 3D Mario ready for launch.
So if the choice for launch is:
A- A (relatively) uninspired, well designed 2D Mario platformer
or
B- Nothing.
What is the problem?
90% of the bitching for NSMB U would dissipate if Nintendo had shown Super Mario Universe or Retro DudeBro.
NSMB U and Pikmin at launch is fine, frankly.
So if the choice for launch is:
A- A (relatively) uninspired, well designed 2D Mario platformer
or
B- Nothing.
What is the problem?
90% of the bitching for NSMB U would dissipate if Nintendo had shown Super Mario Universe or Retro DudeBro.
NSMB U and Pikmin at launch is fine, frankly.
AranhaHunter
Banned
SMW and 3 is an exaggeration, but I don't think he said anything that's really extreme. Maybe he could have said it in a nicer way though.
However, that's irrelevant as NSMBU will sell more than any Sony or MS first party game with ease.
I'd be excited for New Super Mario U if it actually look like something else than New Super Mario Bros Wii with prettier backgrounds and Miiverse features. All other 2D Super Mario games were different enough in style to be interesting, but this? I'm not sure.
I'm pretty disillusioned with Nintendo these days. They really are just cashing in now and do not give a fuck anymore. It's the same as an A-list actor phoning in a performance for a movie.
Maybe Retro will change that, but since they do not feel it's in their best interest to even show their shit behind close doors; I have my doubts even they can deliver anymore.
Maybe Retro will change that, but since they do not feel it's in their best interest to even show their shit behind close doors; I have my doubts even they can deliver anymore.
TDLink
Member
Or maybe their stuff just isn't ready to show? DKCR was only 2 years ago and they also helped out with Mario Kart 7 which only released last year. I am really not all that surprised that whatever they are working on wasn't shown. I am sure it hasn't been in serious development for all that long.
Baconsammy
Banned
They knew Wii U was coming right around the time the Wii came out. They said as much. They had time. Anyone that bashes Call of Duty fans and praises this is a hypocrite. They're both cash-ins, and they're both going to be bought in huge numbers by their fans. If people love 'em, who are we to bash them? I just don't want to see Nintendo fans bashing Halo, Uncharted, CoD for being iteration happy when we've seen 4 "NEW" Super Mario Brothers in about 5 years. When you iterate that much on the same formula, "NEW" starts to lose its meaning.
Rayman Origins shames Nintendo's efforts with NSMB.
Alex
Member
C- Don't buy the system at launch and spend the money on games on other platforms that don't look cheap and uninspired and revisit when there's more to pick from.
I feel the issue people are hitting is that they want a new platform, some might REALLY want a new Nintendo platform with HD but early adopting sucks and you really have to be willing to pay a premium for rushed software and barren lineups so there's a lot of conflicted views.
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, the best part about Halo is that it's essentially the same game every time, only with more stuff.
Metroid Killer
Member
Galaxy 2 must have been a massive failure to some of you people.
Geez just another rehash, prehaps the best Mario game ever, but man what a disappointment!!
Geez just another rehash, prehaps the best Mario game ever, but man what a disappointment!!
Take the new Rayman style of 2D graphics and make a stunning 2D Mario game. BOOM!
Yeah and that is fine. I'm probably one of those. I just don't think taking NSMB U as evidence of Nintendo's new game design philosophy given that they explicitly are only showing launch window stuff is wise.
Hale-XF11
Member
I didn't even bother to buy it (for much of the same reasons dark10x listed above), even though I own a Wii and have bought every previous mainline Mario game. A sequel that appears to be a re-hash for a game I didn't care for originally isn't going to get me to buy a new game system. I can really see myself not bothering at all and being perfectly happy with my 3DS, 360 and PS3 for the next couple of years or until whenever the real next gen games hit the market.
Alex
Member
Except Galaxy 2 introduced a lot of new really nice visual designs and concepts and made up for a lot of deficiencies in the original. It was a big, inspired, flashy game. Direct sequel or not it wasn't cheap launch fodder. I never really heard anyone balk at it for that reasons much at all, I'm sure theres a few folks, but you get that with everything. You're coming across as REALLY defensive here. =/
It was also the first and only reiteration on Mario Galaxy, whereas this game is pretty much an 80s platformer in 720p for 60 dollars. Some people just aren't on board with it without them blowing out the polish or feature set. We don't even know if this one has standard online play, yet.
I don't think anyone feels it will be a poor game, just very low budget, very safe, and something that's not exactly driving them to buy hardware.
I don't see how it's unrealistic. They had a 3D Mario ready at N64 launch, without ANY blueprint at all, they had to basically invent 3D platforming.
It's poor planning. They anticipated the Wii lasting longer than it did.
Metroid Killer
Member
^
^Perhaps (don't really feel like so, I'm much more about Pikmin 3 than Mario platformers honestly). But I think people have some expectations that are quite off.
The platforming in the Wii game is really some of the best stuff when it comes to 2D Mario platformers, perhaps with the biggest downside that it tend to fall on the easy side a bit too much throughout the game.
^Perhaps (don't really feel like so, I'm much more about Pikmin 3 than Mario platformers honestly). But I think people have some expectations that are quite off.
That's all fair, and I defintely agree that the music and visuals of the games are medicore at best. But NSMBWii is a completely different monster compared to NSMB for the DS.
The platforming in the Wii game is really some of the best stuff when it comes to 2D Mario platformers, perhaps with the biggest downside that it tend to fall on the easy side a bit too much throughout the game.
So because they had a 3D Mario 15 years ago that means we should expect another one now?
Come on.
Look back at the launch lineups for last generation. I think we need a bit of perspective.
I'll reiterate- Nintendo was fucking stupid for now giving a glimpse of what they have in the pipeline. Just so so stupid.
Baconsammy
Banned
Did you just compare Galaxy to NSMB? Wanna compare the DS Zelda's to OOT?
This. They didn't expect the Wii to just disappear into obscurity like it did.
Metroid Killer
Member
Ahh gotcha, it's more about Nintendo's launch strategy than the game itself.
It shows that it's entirely possible.
The fact is that Nintendo is pushing innovation with the gamepad. Yet their two flagship titles are things that were possible, and done, multiple generations ago. We waited 7 years for this Pikmin game because Miymoto kept saying he was looking for inspiration? Then it turns out to basically be Pikmin 2? Don't get me wrong, Pikmin 2 is great...but it would have been great to have it on a software starved Wii.
Launch lineups for last generation are all well and fine, but that was a massive leap in technology. Nintendo chose to make that leap now, but they shouldn't be allowed the same grace period that others were 6-7 years ago.
Game development in general takes way longer nowadays than 15 years ago, so it's really not realistic by any means to expect a new 3D Mario for launch.
However, what we also have to keep in mind is that 15 years ago Nintendo didn't care for what anyone else was doing. They launched their console when their games were ready, period. Whether or not 3rd parties had games ready or whether or not they kept 3rd parties with already finished games waiting, wasn't of any importance to Nintendo.
That this attitude has changed is a good thing.
However, what we also have to keep in mind is that 15 years ago Nintendo didn't care for what anyone else was doing. They launched their console when their games were ready, period. Whether or not 3rd parties had games ready or whether or not they kept 3rd parties with already finished games waiting, wasn't of any importance to Nintendo.
That this attitude has changed is a good thing.
Metroid Killer
Member
No I'm comparing NSMBWII to Galaxy 1 and 2. All 3 games are some amazing Mario platforming games albeit in slightly different genres.
NSMB is a piece of turd.
NSMBU is going to be a well done game. No doubt about it. However after NSMBWii, Donkey Kong Conutry Returns, and Sonic Colors (not Nintendo I know but still good part is 2D and was on the Wii), I'm not really in a the mood for another 2D Mario game. Especially since I can still play my Wii games on the Wii U. It's not like it's going to be the only 2D Mario game you can play on the system in the end. I'm not a Rayman fan but Rayman Legends looks far more interesting as well from at least from a presentation point of view at this moment.
Tarin02543
Member
If they would have called it mario world 5 instead of nsmbu nintendo would have won the conference.
I don't think it is really a lack of effort on Nintendo's part, I just think that they are being left behind, are dry on truly fresh ideas and can't keep up with the times anymore. They hit the jackpot with the Wii, but that magic is long gone and the same trick is not going to work again here in 2012. Things have changed too much and the fad crowd that was won over by the Wii has moved on to other gadgets and trends. The die-hards who can't get enough Mario should be good to go, though.
They actually learned from many of the mistakes made in the original Galaxy, improved the visual design, and created lots of great new content. It definitely didn't feel as fresh as I would have liked BUT it was an incredible game.
Mario Galaxy was already a wonderful experience so it had a great base to work from.
I never really loved NSMB DS and each iteration doesn't really seem to be making the improvements I would have hoped for. Each NSMB seems to suffer from exactly the same issues I had with the previous games.
flyinpiranha
Member
NSMB U looks awesome. I enjoyed my time with NSMBWii ... the problem is that it's not making me want to purchase the Wii U. It's a game I'd get because I already had a Wii U because of Game X, what Game X would/should/will be was/is up to Nintendo to show me. I haven't seen it yet.
I don't doubt the quality of the game at all. It's just not something I'd go buy the system for. Super Mario 64 and Super Mario World were.
I don't doubt the quality of the game at all. It's just not something I'd go buy the system for. Super Mario 64 and Super Mario World were.
EmCeeGramr
Member
That's exactly what they did with Wii and are doing with U.
MisterHero
Super Member
3D Mario games are taking longer to make. People were supposedly satisfied with calling Galaxy 2, a freaking sequel, the greatest Mario game ever made, after the original Galaxy was the greatest Mario game ever made. 3D Land just came out for 3DS too.
Get over it, industry. I'm stoked that Wii U is launching with NSMBU.
Get over it, industry. I'm stoked that Wii U is launching with NSMBU.
Shadow Hog
Member
I think the thing that makes me uninterested in NSMBU is the simple fact that I felt no compulsions to beat NSMBWii. I got up to World 3 or 4 and just stopped. It didn't really feel interesting to me anymore. Evidently I missed some of the best stages this way, but oh well?
And it's not like I'm completely through with Mario, either. I'll admit to not finishing Galaxy or Galaxy 2 (well, I beat the final boss in Galaxy, but I didn't get all the stars, and Galaxy 2 I don't even recall if I made it past World 2), but I finished Super Mario 3D Land so thoroughly that I've unlocked
, so...
I will say that some shots of NSMBU are gorgeous, though, like that classical painting-themed level. It'd be nice if it was at 1080p, since I can't imagine a game like this is pushing any envelopes, but oh well...
And it's not like I'm completely through with Mario, either. I'll admit to not finishing Galaxy or Galaxy 2 (well, I beat the final boss in Galaxy, but I didn't get all the stars, and Galaxy 2 I don't even recall if I made it past World 2), but I finished Super Mario 3D Land so thoroughly that I've unlocked
S8-Crown (although I haven't beaten it yet)
I will say that some shots of NSMBU are gorgeous, though, like that classical painting-themed level. It'd be nice if it was at 1080p, since I can't imagine a game like this is pushing any envelopes, but oh well...
Baconsammy
Banned
NSMBWii is one of the absolute worst Mario games I think I've ever played Comparing it to Galaxy is just blasphemy.
Metroid Killer
Member
Ok, but you are defintely in the minority when it comes to this opinion. Defintely here at gaf.
You are really missing out then. The Wii version completely shames the DS version, it's almost laughable to compare the two games. At least from a gameplay and content perspective the Wii version completely blows out the DS version.
So do you see where my perspective is coming from? To me NSMBWii is exactly at the spot where Galaxy 1 was. Galaxy 2 followed up and did an outstanding job at it. To me NSMBU seems to be doing just that, but to a lesser degree.
Same for me. But we are in the minority there, most people I know love this game.
Holy Order Sol
Member
No such thing. I need more of them.
Funny, it's the best 2d Mario *I* ever played.
EmCeeGramr
Member
now let's not get crazy
it's no 3 (or all-stars 3 or gba 3)
it's no 3 (or all-stars 3 or gba 3)
Alex
Member
I don't think they're being held to higher standards at all, I can't think of a hardware launch, even legitimately better ones, that weren't eviscerated to the same or greater degree within the past decade. I think the Dreamcast was the last platform where people didn't blubber about early adoption en masse. It's gotten worse, too, with the amount of sheer entertainment available, people are getting SUPER choosey.
You typically just want a real hook when they buy a new platform. Something that looks expensive or really new and justifies new hardware, be it concept or exeuction. Another NSMB game probably just isn't it for a lot of message board types considering it's ultimately a Wii game that was already retro styled but with one extra bump on the resolution tree.
Again, I think it'll be a great game, and I plan on buying it, but... ehhh at launch, for probably 300 + 60 + tax in the middle of late life software showers (and mere months after NSMB2 on the 3DS, as well) I do totally agree that it can be frustrating because you can tell people want new hardware.
I actually think it's one of the better 2D ones, actually. The Wii edition at least, the DS one was complete shit and just felt stilted and awkward.
The major confusing part I always found about NSMB Wii is how fucking HARD it is in multiplayer. Game is a fair challenge in single but in multi it becomes absurdly hard in a lot of spots, especially as a FAMILY title. No way in fuck are you finishing this game with your family, you're just going to leave them to die and carry on by yourself.