It's my second favorite 2D Zelda after Link's Awakening, but the visuals weren't what made the game for me. It was the music and the exploration.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Critique: Zelda Link to the Past 2 doesn't look "lived in"
- Thread starter Uncle Rupee
- Start date
It's my second favorite 2D Zelda after Link's Awakening, but the visuals weren't what made the game for me. It was the music and the exploration.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
I think it's perfectly okay to criticize works in progress, and I applaud your effort in doing so. However, your argument has changed. You criticized the game because it lacked a certain "something" from previous Zelda games, including A Link to the Past. However, when provided with evidence that the areas shown matched those shown in the original, you switched gears and said that the new game should be "different" from the original.
I do think the art style could use some work, especially those cliffsides and color palette.
I do think the art style could use some work, especially those cliffsides and color palette.
Let's compare similar levels:
.
The walls and floors in ALttP2 have a lot more detail to them. Both the floor tiles and the bricks in the wall are worn. The bricks in ALttP have no texture and are smooth and shiny, while the ALttP2 bricks have texture and color variance. It stands to reason that if they pay homage to other ALttP dungeons, they too will be appropriately more complexly textured.
The walls and floors in ALttP2 have a lot more detail to them. Both the floor tiles and the bricks in the wall are worn. The bricks in ALttP have no texture and are smooth and shiny, while the ALttP2 bricks have texture and color variance. It stands to reason that if they pay homage to other ALttP dungeons, they too will be appropriately more complexly textured.
It's been confirmed that it takes place after ALttP. That tree regrows every time you leave the screen.
Paracelsus
Member
To be honest DKC was one level above everything else in that same era, as far as art direction went (except maybe Yoshi's Island), so the 3D version still doesn't live up but it certainly looks better than whatever 2.5 Mario game you can think of. If Dolphined it probably looks better than MariU as well.
eXistor
Member
How so? How would you describe it? He made his point quite clear I think.
FrozenCell
Member
why isn't the new Zelda pretty pretty 2D sprites?
the low res 3DS screen is incredibly well suited for such graphics, they could even borrow a sprite or two from SNES games
instead we get this early 90s bland 3D that's painful to watch
the low res 3DS screen is incredibly well suited for such graphics, they could even borrow a sprite or two from SNES games
instead we get this early 90s bland 3D that's painful to watch
KojiKnight
Member
No it hasn't....
Mango The Magician
Banned
The game is based around the 3DS's 3D effect, I'm not even sure you can do something like that with sprites..:/
Solid SOAP
Member
Donkey Kong Country Returns looks considerably better than any Donkey Kong game before it. I can understand the disdain for the NSMB games and even LttP 3DS, but Donkey Kong Country Returns is leaps and bounds above the original DKC games. Every level moves and animates beautifully, every level looks different using different geography and level assets, etc. What you're upset about is more than likely the fact that it isn't a shot-for-shot, pixel-by-pixel re-imagining of the original graphics.
About the op :
Thats what i'm trying to explain since forever.
When Lttp or any main zelda is released, it's meant to be what is, for me, a videogame, meaning a game that tries to make you believe in a world.
But when they do this kind of "gift to gamers" or nostalgia game, they see that as a game that is a game first, and doesn't try to make you believe in something else. It's all about the features, the fun.. They see Mario, or Zelda as Tetris or Froggers. It's an iconographic retro game that's meant to look old and retro.
That's why you don't have the moody dark or rainy aspect of Zeldas, but a bright presentation focused on gameplay features.
Thats what i'm trying to explain since forever.
When Lttp or any main zelda is released, it's meant to be what is, for me, a videogame, meaning a game that tries to make you believe in a world.
But when they do this kind of "gift to gamers" or nostalgia game, they see that as a game that is a game first, and doesn't try to make you believe in something else. It's all about the features, the fun.. They see Mario, or Zelda as Tetris or Froggers. It's an iconographic retro game that's meant to look old and retro.
That's why you don't have the moody dark or rainy aspect of Zeldas, but a bright presentation focused on gameplay features.
If the first page was filled with more responses like these, it would've been okay and I wouldn't have written that particular post. Like I've said in my first post on the topic, I'm replaying through Link's Awakening right now and the dungeons especially don't carry a sense of history about them at all.
If the design choice is trying to be as faithful to A link to the past as possible, then that is perfectly understandable. Still, I'd have to express a few regrets about it as I think ruins or structures in video games in general lack that sense of history about them and that the legend of Zelda series across the years has become really a pioneer in this very particular point.
All in all, it's a very specific complaint and it is not going to lessen my excitement for this game which is already extremely high.
KojiKnight
Member
Übermatik;54619392 said:
I'll take that bet. The "New" SMB is a series, I don't think we're going to get a series out of them remaking Link games.
advanced in therms of what?, what the journalist had was a demo... a demo consisting on a single and specific dungeon.
and I'm not saying that the OP statement is invalid... but the OP statemente is VERY SPECIFIC... and he started his statement with:
(and then he edited it a million times to move the goal post at his convenience.
and well, people are saying it's too early to determine if the "game's world" lacks life... as I said... one dungeon... + 4 screens of the same area.
I know what you're hinting at, but to be fair, we haven't yet seen a moody or rainy area in this game yet.
ElfArmy177
Member
That's how Link's Awakening was made.
Its how pretty much every handheld Zelda game has been made.
Also, OP picked a bad dungeon for this comparison so we'll have to wait until we get footage of another dugenon before its possible to tell if they've foregone making the dungeons look aged.
just curious... did you watch the trailer on youtube, or on the 3DS screen?
But the OP compares a dungeon that is trying to pay homage to a specific dungeon in ALttP to a dungeon from ALttP that it is not. The analogous ALttP dungeon to the one seen in the ALttP2 footage is more sterile than the new one.
Bill Trinen: "From a story perspective there are connections," Trinen said, "so it does fall after A Link to the Past. And it's set in the same world, but introduces that new gameplay mechanic. So, yeah, I guess by that definition ..."
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
That's the thing about 2D artwork... especially 2D artwork made up of a 256x224 display... You have to imagine how it would look. There is definitely nothing wrong with imagining OoT as the base style only in 2D... but I'd say this new style (especially directly overlayed LttP) could just as easily match it.
To say the style they chose for LttP2 doesn't match with LttP though comes off as kind of silly when you can see every bit of influence in the new design. Whether you like the new design or not is another story and much more up to debate I'd think
Agreed, definitely a mix of misrepresenting what I meant mixed with some tiredness for this visual style that the top down handheld zelda games seem to be going after. So I will agree that it does match, but the question is could they have (or should they have) gone with something perhaps a little bit more like skyward sword? That like mix of cartoony and colorful with realistic proportions could have worked fantastically on the 3DS.
I mean hell it's ALTTP which is a goddamn legend of a game and this just looks so safe to me. There isn't much to get excited over here, sure it's ALTTP but when I look at it I see the Minish Cap before I see ALTTP influences.
KojiKnight
Member
Imagine it, the beautifully crafted Dark World theme, with it's drums and fanfares, just ruined with the odd BAH BAH.
EightBitNate
Member
Why does the artstyle in Nintendo games get criticized so often?
NSMBU
WW:HD
Both New Yoshi games
And now this
All of these games are really pretty looking
NSMBU
WW:HD
Both New Yoshi games
And now this
All of these games are really pretty looking
Oh ok, great.
Now it just remains to be seen how long after alttp this is, really looking forward to seeing more in the fallen hero timeline.
KojiKnight
Member
It's hard to criticize the art styles of sony and microsoft's games because they all go for the same "realistic" approach.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
I really agree with this. The art just looks soulless. Its lacking the mystery of other Zeldas, or the charm of Wind Waker.
Because, in the past, they set the bar really high.
And because they are toying with nostalgia. Not a good combination.
Because Nintendo's been around so long, and a lot of people grew up with these franchises and have tons of ideas about how something should look.
I haven't seen people criticize Mario and Luigi: Dream Team or X. There's a valid argument here.
I definitely think it looks a lot better in motion after watching that HD gameplay video, but I still don't really like the plastic look of it. I feel like if they were to outline everything with a black outline it would look a million times better. It would also look much more like LTTP.
It definitely animates beautifully though.
It definitely animates beautifully though.
Oh come on...
Nose Master
Member
It looks fine. This isn't Yoshi's Island 3DS bad, it's just boring. And as long as the gameplay holds up, I don't really give a shit.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I would agree with you normally but this is a follow up to a 20 year old title that last saw release like 7 or so years ago. So you have to wonder who the target audience for this is...
Actually that is a good question haha.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I feel like I should be impressed and excited by a sequel to one of the greatest games ever made, instead of feeling in my gut that it looks rushed.
And I'm one of the gamers who didn't get an HD console until two months ago (picked up a PS3).
Until then I was playing on DS and Wii this entire past generation, so clearly graphics aren't that important to me. But this is Zelda ALTTP 2, for chrissakes.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I just prefer the claymation look of the Rare games to the polygonal look of DKC Retruns but I agree with Paracelsus that it looks ten times better than the NSMB games and most of the other games Nintendo is putitng out.
Another example I could give is the way Diablo 3 looks compared to Diablo 1 and 2
I think if it actually had black outlines on every object and the full 3D environment, it would look very bad.
The 3DS isn't powerful enough to do such a thing and make it look good.
Outlines look alright in a static, tiled 2D environment anyway, I don't think they'd work in this game even if the 3DS was powerful enough.
Depends on the game of course, but I can see the complaints that they've boiled down the Mario aesthetic to the lowest common denominator for NSMB. It doesn't bother me as much as some people but compare NSMB to Mario 3 NES, with its stage play aesthetic. It just has so much more flavor. I feel like there's a loss of visual flavor on some of their projects. It's probably done to speed up development time and build up re-usable assets for future iterations, a process of NSMB-ifying one of their franchises.
BTW, I like the look of the new Yoshi's Island personally.
Flame Lord
Member
What's your point?
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
"Doesn't look as cool as BLOPS2."
I like my games bright and cheerful.
I agreed about the sterility from when I saw the screenshots, but then a thought struck me, and I've just fired the video up on my 3DS to confirm it.
I think what's missing in the screenshots are edges. Look at the original, and you can see clear deliniation between the various screen elements. Look at the shots, though, and there's a much more subtle blending; no distinctive borders.
Those borders are crucial to mark out a clear boundary between an object and its background; don't have them, and you will run the risk of an issue where a foreground object blends in with the background.
That's why they existed in the *past* - but I think the case with this one is that they're not really necessary now. With the 3D slider down you still have parallax factors to make it very clear what's in the foreground and what's in the background. With the slider up, your eyes can actually perceive the foreground and background *as* foreground and background anyway. At that point there is no *need* for the borders.
I'd be interested if someone more talented than me at art could take, say, a shot of a tree in old LTTP and strip out the border; I'd be interested to hear if people would find that similarly 'sterile'.
Thats exactly why we need to let Nintendo know the game looks graphically bland.
target audience, consumer demographics, etc.
Similar threads
- Featured