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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!

Fersis said:
I think that SRK/Evo removing EVO seed points and endorsement from WNF is a clear sign of things to come.
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Yep, given how mad one of the SRK guys was after Miranda post-forfeit confessional (MrWizard, maybe?), if it wasn't Capcom running the show I'd expect the way they handled things would have more than likely meant them sanctioning the organization in charge.
 
Sometimes I can't wrap my head around GAF. When guys like Neato can get banned for adding constructive criticism, not just to the topic, but to other posters in this thread. Jesus I have to shake my heads at the mods here sometimes.
 
Sblargh said:
What? Why? Because of Marn or because of Marn being banned?
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Because of marn. Marn's ban is Level Up response to his actions.

disappeared said:
Sometimes I can't wrap my head around GAF. When guys like Neato can get banned for adding constructive criticism, not just to the topic, but to other posters in this thread. Jesus I have to shake my heads at the mods here sometimes.
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Again: He was banned for insulting other posters not for his opinions.

Also Mr Jared has my support on this one. The insults are uncalled for.
 
Huw_Dawson said:
I would really like to hear examples of this, because I think this is the crux of the matter.

What should manz consider, if anything? Is there a general list of things people should consider?
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Well one thing I would suggest is not taking suggestions from stream monsters when a woman is on camera. :P

To be honest, I feel that the fighting game community does a pretty good job for the most part. But it's just important to keep in mind that sometimes women will take "rape that bitch" much more seriously (with good reason), even if it's said in the heat of the moment, and even if it's not being directed towards her. The amount of women in the room compared to men is usually terribly tiny, and it's hard to diffuse the tension when you're alone.

When it comes to those female only sub-categories, I don't really know how I feel completely because I think it's good to show that there are women aside from Sherry and ChocoBlanka in the community, and they want to participate and actually are taking strides to do so and want to win. That's important: having visible faces that women can relate to. But I also hate that it's divided like that in the first place, but the positives kinda weigh heavily against the negatives, so I don't roll my eyes at it so much anymore.

Keep in mind, the outside-looking-in view when it comes to ALL gaming communities (not just FGC) is that it's full of a bunch of fat, misogynist, neckbearded trolls that can't speak to a woman without making the conversation about how she's a woman. Don't validate that view. Be above it. I know this community is above it. :)
 
Kifftopher said:
I'm not defending Neato's specific language, just saying it seems ironic that a lot of people in this thread have complained that people are taking misogynist insults and sexual harassment too seriously, saying "it's just joking around" and they don't want people to be harshly punished for it, but harsh punishment comes down on Neato for his insults.
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That's because most of us didn't "cross the line" while having this debate.

You can argue for or against many touchy subjects in this forum. That is the essence of free speech, which this forum promotes. BUT one MUST abide by the TOS when you argue with someone, otherwise it would be a whole forum of Arises arguing. That is why Neato was banned. If you don't like it, there are other forums on the internet.
 
disappeared said:
Sometimes I can't wrap my head around GAF. When guys like Neato can get banned for adding constructive criticism, not just to the topic, but to other posters in this thread. Jesus I have to shake my heads at the mods here sometimes.
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Are you drunk, or did someone get ahold of your account? Between this and your last post in OT I'm almost sure of it.
 
Toski said:
I don't find this a very good example of people defending Aris' actions.

He did the crime now he has to do the time, but some think that he shouldn't immediately be ostracized from the community and given a second chance in due time.
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Except this isn't an isolated incident for Aris, which has also been pointed out several times in this thread.
 
disappeared said:
Sometimes I can't wrap my head around GAF. When guys like Neato can get banned for adding constructive criticism, not just to the topic, but to other posters in this thread. Jesus I have to shake my heads at the mods here sometimes.

bring that fucking ban too.
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Constructive Criticism?

Edit: There are ways to present it (and he did it well at times, especially early on), but I think he was really letting his frustration out too strongly on other members. I see posters like Masaki_ drive by with the weirdest replies, and I feel like slugging them, but you've got to restrain yourself.
 
Toski said:
I don't find this a very good example of people defending Aris' actions.

He did the crime now he has to do the time, but some think that he shouldn't immediately be ostracized from the community and given a second chance in due time.
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Third chance you mean, at least. Cause he apologized first, and then went ahead with the whole "sexual harassment is part of the fgc culture blah blah" bit and he had to apologize for that too (which was the weakest sauce apology ever, but eh).

How many times will the fgc keep forgiving this guy?
 
Fersis said:
Because of marn. Marn's ban is Level Up response to his actions.


Again: He was banned for insulting other posters not for his opinions.

Also Mr Jared has my support on this one. The insults are uncalled for.
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Oh wow.
Well.
Wow.
Ok, well, I'm glad that they are taking this seriously. Sounds a bit extreme, but sure is better than doing nothing.
 
Toski said:
I don't find this a very good example of people defending Aris' actions.
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It feels like some people have this idea that if you're not calling for Aris to be tortured and thrown in a dumpster, that if your level of rhetoric doesn't match their own, then you must be defending him.
 
Kifftopher said:
Except this isn't an isolated incident for Aris, which has also been pointed out several times in this thread.
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I think EVO will ban him for a year+, and other events will probably have sanctions against him as well.

As for this not being his first time, Aris treated Cross Assault like a tournament stream and got caught being stupid. He might of got away with this on a tournament stream, but Cross Assault was a different environment with different rules. Crossgate is going to change the FGC as a whole and many were/are unprepared for this sudden change.
 
duckroll said:
I believe it has been explained before, but the problem is not that there is no one who can sanction Aris, but rather that no single organizer has the reach to sanction him in any meaningful way.

But I think the bigger question here is, why didn't Capcom sanction him for the actions and comments he made while on a show organized by Capcom, which Capcom has now come out to say they disagree with and find unacceptable?
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Individual organizers can do what they want to him-- ban him from commentating for sure, tourneys (though that might be a bit too harsh.) But yeah, overall, this "FGC" everyone is talking about is just groups of players in various regions who up play at various arcades and occasionally congregate at regionals and EVO. It's really an off-line gaming scene that happened to start getting streamed, so the organizers and people running the streams are the only ones who can control that. But they really listen to whoever is in the chat, I'm not sure anyone could "lobby" to spooky about not allowing Aris or something like that. The stream monsters would definitely want him on the stream and they are the audience, but it's his choice, like it's any of the other streamers' choices.

I agree it's a little surprising how Capcom has taken it. They just issued a standard disclaimer about the situation a while after speaking with Aris about it.
 
I know that right now all is doom and gloom but we're gonna get stronger from this. BELIEVE.

Kadey said:
Inkblot is right on point in the SRK article. There is a time for everything and some things are not meant to be said or done. Lay down the hammer. That really made me feel more positive about all this.
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You should. I believe that Level Up, UltraChen and some others we're seeing the first steps toward a 'cleaner' FGC.
And by cleaner i dont mean 'White washed'!
 
Inkblot is right on point in the SRK article. There is a time for everything and some things are not meant to be said or done. Lay down the hammer. That really made me feel more positive about all this.

And yeah. As much as I like Chris Hu and Aquasilk's commentary, I immediately turn off the stream or mute the volume when they get way into all that fresh talk, particularly the very detailed perverted stuff. I know they are nice upstanding guys but as mentioned, the stream is a public place and new people will and can take things the wrong way. Having a disclaimer doesn't necessarily give you kudos to say or do everything.
 
duckroll said:
Vodh, before you continue to shame yourself by defending Aris, I think you should carefully consider his detailed comments about why he thinks all this shit he is doing is fine and acceptable, in an interview he chose to give to express that he's not the bad guy here when he absolutely is.

This isn't just about him giving Miranda a hard time, but it is about him being a total douchebag while speaking for the fighting game community to the press, and representing (misrepresenting I hope) the entire community as one where being unwelcoming is a good thing, and furthermore, "sexual harassment is part of a culture".

If you think that his behavior is really totally okay, and that no one should be giving him a hard time other than a "slap on the wrist", then not only are you condoning his sort of behavior, but you are encouraging this sort of behavior to continue within the community. Think about it.
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I hate to say I told you so (re: Aris), but. . .

Tekken fan.

That's what we get for not keeping those mouth breathers chained up in the shed.
 
Marn just basically deconstructed his Level|Up press release excuse on his stream right now. What the fuck, dude? You want to be a community leader?

What is going on in your head?
 
Media studies academics that I work with are already adding this to their research about how masculine and inclusive video game culture is.

71035_239031083165_7343518_n.jpg


It just keeps going.
 
Foxtastical said:
Media studies academics that I work with are already adding this to their research about how masculine and inclusive video game culture is.
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They're right to do so. I still feel like many people aren't treating the entire situation as seriously as they should. There's an underlying sexism and bigotry that's present in this and frankly most gaming communities. I'm not mad at the journalists and academics for noticing it, I'm mad that the community has yet to weed it out.
 
I want 30 seconds of Marn on any stream. No more, but no less. I guess I'll have to live with it.

Also what I want to see is a return to form by "underground" streams who do not need to abide to any rules sent by SRK, for good or bad. Replace Team Spooky's old role. (I don't see anything truly wrong with rules against things on sponsored streams. Probably won't kill hype.)
 
PsychoSoldier said:
In case anyone hasn't seen this, the manager of DMG has a really neat article---though it doesn't directly mention the Aris affair, it does give you a good idea on the state of sponsors and such for fighting games

http://dominionmethodgaming.com/2012/03/01/the-current-state-of-the-fgc-and-how-to-improve-it/
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This is a good article. Thanks.

Fersis said:
I know that right now all is doom and gloom but we're gonna get stronger from this. BELIEVE.

You should. I believe that Level Up, UltraChen and some others we're seeing the first steps toward a 'cleaner' FGC.
And by cleaner i dont mean 'White washed'!
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obonicus said:
That is pretty good. I mean, it does feed the fear that corporate sponsorship will change the FGC, but that's probably inevitable.
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I don't think it's doom and gloom. Taking out the sponsorship took me by surprise, but I agree with you. It will be for the better. I think the FGC already changed. I am in the middle of nowhere in 3rd world land, never played a fighter seriously until SF4 and yet I am watching these guys on stream for years now.
It feels a bit weird now on this topic people say I can't say nothing because I'm not a part of it. Yeah, I don't know anyone personally, I can't go to another continent so I can say hi to people, but damn man, I'm e-stalking the scene for I don't know how long. Every wednesday I am on GAF complaining that Chris G is cheap, suddenly I'm not a part of any of this. It's weird. I'm not saying I am a part of this, I am genuinely saying it's weird.

wolfmat said:
Marn just basically deconstructed his Level|Up press release excuse on his stream right now. What the fuck, dude? You want to be a community leader?

What is going on in your head?
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What is he saying?
 
wolfmat said:
Marn just basically deconstructed his Level|Up press release excuse on his stream right now. What the fuck, dude? You want to be a community leader?

What is going on in your head?
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Didn't see it, but the guy really needs to take a couple days off, talk to some level headed people and think about this before he destroys himself.
 
Fersis said:
Because of marn. Marn's ban is Level Up response to his actions.


Again: He was banned for insulting other posters not for his opinions.

Also Mr Jared has my support on this one. The insults are uncalled for.
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No, he insulted *a* poster for being particularly dimwitted and making horrible comparisons. The post could have just been deleted with a warning, neato was one of the few knocking some sense into the mentally disconnected
 
Druz said:
No, he insulted *a* poster for being particularly dimwitted and making horrible comparisons
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Being a Cross Assault "veteran" at this point, posting a lot in both the official and this spin-off thread, I will tell you that of the many people who got banned in these threads, basically all were because they hurled a direct insult at another poster.

This has been pretty consistent throughout.
 
Kifftopher said:
There's an underlying sexism and bigotry that's present in this and frankly most gaming communities.
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This is what I was afraid of. I just KNEW this would happen.

It's just not true. It appears as if it was true because those communities with these problems are frequently being spotlighted, and even more so right now.

And of course, it bounces back and hits the rest of the gaming world.

What about female MMORPG players? They can do whatever the fuck they want without being seriously harassed most of the time. Like, look at the female portion of the scenes that's grown around DAOC. Or WoW.

Same goes for CS. Women can play on public servers and not be harassed. They are part of clans, they fuckin' play professionally without being reduced to the tits.

Or if you want to get really "okay, you're doing your thing, have fun", look at what went on in Second Life, and what kind of a role female players played in that.

Great job, FGC. Your community leaders are really awesome. Good stuff with the streams. You're really the shining example for gaming.
 
Druz said:
No, he insulted *a* poster for being particularly dimwitted and making horrible comparisons. The post could have just been deleted with a warning, neato was one of the few knocking some sense into the mentally disconnected
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Yeah?

Neato_Jinkins said:
oh look, another intentionally dense poster with a fighting game avatar baghdad bob-ing childish behavior. it wasn't "a joke," singular. it was a long string of snide, self-pitying nonsense from giggling dipshits intent on delegitimizing the concerns people have over sexism in the community.

this is like talking to an alcoholic that can't even admit they might have a problem.
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Neato_Jinkins said:
i didn't know it was possible to just not get it as hard as these jokers just don't get it
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Neato_Jinkins said:
how dense can you be?
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Neato_Jinkins said:
i, too, want my favorite activity to be a sausage fest of perpetual self-congratulation, black t-shirts, and as little introspection as is humanly possible.

oh, how i long for the life of a subterranean moleman.
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Neato_Jinkins said:
and that's why the scene you pretend to care about will always be a shitty, insular backwater. good work.
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I love this one:
Neato_Jinkins said:
ahem, mods? can we get some mods in here? some dumb baby in this thread expressed a sniveling, nonsensical exaggeration in response to a reasonable request and this other guy immediately called him on it. mods? WHERE ARE THE MODS?! CLEAN UP THIS MESS MODS!!
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Whoa, we got a 1UP reunion going on in here!

Nice to see Miranda's post. Hopefully the victim in this pointing out the person who wronged her will get all the sensationalists to stop throwing the entire FGC under the bus.
 
FartOfWar said:
There's a loose coalition of people who have the money and the equipment, how can we possibly sanctio... Oh wait, the people with the money and equipment could do it.
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FYI, most of the time, even at majors, a lot of the equipment (consoles, monitors, etc) comes from players and volunteers.
 
wolfmat said:
This is what I was afraid of. I just KNEW this would happen.

It's just not true. It appears as if it was true because those communities with these problems are frequently being spotlighted, and even more so right now.
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I wish I lived in your world where women in and playing video games are all treated with respect and dignity like equal human beings. The games where they aren't more often than not reduced to sexual objects must be really nice.
 
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