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[borghe]

Crossfit can be good, but my biggest problem with crossfit is that they start off newbies too fast.

"Thry" don't do anything. "They" doesn't exist. This is really the biggest "problem" with Crossfit.

Do some boxes rush people through, offer poor training, and are ripe for injury? Sure, probably. Do some boxes basically take the on ramp through front squat, and then during the regular classes to continue further instruction on the oly lifts? Yes. And some even go so far as bring in outside oly coaches either in separate classes on the individual's dime, or in rare cases to the group classes on the gym's dime.

The problem is that when saying "Crossfit", there is no way to convey this. East Side Crossfit and West Side Crossfit might have not a single damn thing in common except for the licensing. I know "Crossfit" gyms that don't do oly lifting. Literally ZERO oly lifting. I know gyms that don't do metcons every day. Gyms that offer endurance and gymnastics programs.

There is no "Crossfit" gym, and as the frequency of these idiotic articles increases, this is actually going to continue into a MUCH bigger problem for "Crossfit Inc." as a brand in general. P90X is the same on every single DVD. Jazzercise is the same on every single VHS tape. But Crossfit.. I mean box to box their might be similarities, or there just might be almost nothing in common.

I do think the Crossfit brand is too big (as in good big) to give up on at this point.. And it's doing good for business for the gyms (good gym or bad gym). But I can only imagine being the owner of a gym where you really care about your members.. Where you would kick someone out or strip their bar down for being unsafe... and then at the same time have to fight off "criticism" that your "gym" is too dangerous to exist (i.e. Crossfit is dangerous!!)

It's the same thing as health care providers, and this is what really needs to be put across. Just like you should investigate and do preliminary research on any doctor you expect to take care of you, you should do research on fitness also.Shit, whether it's Crossfit (or another gym), whether it's a football club, or a gymnastics center. It really is everything. People just go to ANY of these places and just start "doing", without any sort of knowledge. "Is this place good? Do they have injuries? Do they have a decent success rate?"

To me that is the fucked up part of gym's in general. You have to sign a term contract with almost every gym out there, and it's like "Listen fuck-o. If your gym sucks and is a completely dangerous POS, there's no way I am being forced into sticking around for another 364 days when there are plenty of other gyms out there who actually give a damn about form and safety"

 

[SeanR1221]

I think if Crossfit gyms were cheaper, people wouldn't be so cultish about it. As it stands, people want to make sure their 100.00+ a month is being spent on the absolute best thing.

I've had this argument thrown at me when I say my gym is 20.00 a month. Calling my gym a "globo" gym is pretty common amongst the cross fitters I know.

 

[Draft]

FRIDAY 092713

AMRAP:
Post 1,000 word defense of xfit

 

[APF]

If your license your brand, you're saying the licensee is a legitimate representative of that brand.

 

[Cooter]

How exactly do you suggest this muscle up contest be structured?

 

[borghe]

If your license your brand, you're saying the licensee is a legitimate representative of that brand.

I don't disagree with this.. And there absolutely is a problem with the licensing and franchising of it. I almost equate it to licensing and franchising air. Air is all sorts of different things.. good, bad, etc. Air could help you (O2) or kill you (CO).

As a result of this awkward relationship, in most cases the "brand" is approached VERY naively. From both sides. The zealots and the critics.

The truth is like I outlined above. You approach a Crossfit gym the way you would approach any gym. Do they teach good foundations and principles? Are they safe? Do they encourage sloppiness and injury or demand form and precision? Forget Crossfit, I ask these questions of ANY trainer I would think about going to. "Crossfit" is just a name that may or may not appear over the door.

 

[werks]

Yeah her form isn't that bad, but she should not be lifting that much weight. There is no point in lifting that much weight. All it does is cause long term damage to joints, ligaments, bones, etc.

No matter how stupid crossfit gets, the anti-crossfit group gets stupider.

 

[entremet]

I think if Crossfit gyms were cheaper, people wouldn't be so cultish about it. As it stands, people want to make sure their 100.00+ a month is being spent on the absolute best thing.

I've had this argument thrown at me when I say my gym is 20.00 a month. Calling my gym a "globo" gym is pretty common amongst the cross fitters I know.

100?! I wish lol

They're 250 per month around here. (NYC).

Insane. I would do crossfit if I could swing it budge wise. There are some good boxes here, with good instructors, but 3000 per year is pretty steep.

 

[borghe]

I think if Crossfit gyms were cheaper, people wouldn't be so cultish about it. As it stands, people want to make sure their 100.00+ a month is being spent on the absolute best thing.

I've had this argument thrown at me when I say my gym is 20.00 a month. Calling my gym a "globo" gym is pretty common amongst the cross fitters I know.

eh... yeah, it's no less naive or dismissive than what happens with Crossfit. You are absolutely right. I think the biggest reason Crossfitters get so overzealous in terms of "globo gym" is because of the attention difference you DO receive at your typical Crossfit gym vs. your typical $20/month gym where you walk in, there's a bunch of machines, and a tiny free weight area in the back.

With that being said, there are plenty of training and conditioning programs at these gyms, including metcons and even conjugate periodization (i.e. "crossfit") that are excellent. Actually one of the most knowledgable trainers I ever met (mentioned in my first post here) was a boot camp trainer at Snap Fitness. He guided me to success on all of the oly lifts even though he used none of them in his boot camps (mostly body weight style boot camps focused on weight loss, etc)

If you are getting what you need from your $20/month membership, more f'ing power to you!!!! That's awesome, seriously. My gym has just an incredible community.. but I've slowly been working on putting together my own garage gym.. While I don't necessarily see myself leaving.. I'd certainly like to be able to do some strength (and lots of technique) work on my own some days without feeling the need to go to the gym to get it done. If you can get that sort of feeling from your gym, that's awesome.

How exactly do you suggest this muscle up contest be structured?

Are you a gymnast? I can do like... ummmm... 9 unbroken.. I am just confident that anyone complaining about "kipping" as a general term probably hasn't hit a ring MU yet.

 

[IceCold]

Yup. what I pay to go to the gym yearly is what crossfit costs monthly. Could I afford it? Sure. But why would I pay that much for a modified circuit training workout? the girls that do it are cute though, and the sense of superiority does feel nice..mmmh..

 

[abuC]

I place my money on Cooter in the muscle up challenge.

 

[ohhthegore]

Crossfit is dumb. Even the world's greatest athletes don't do Crossfit. They do strength training, then they do interval training, and everyone once in a while they do a Fran.

Oly lifts for time is dumb, deadlifts for time is dumb, squats for time is not as dumb but still kind of dumb, box jumps for reps combined with any of the above is dumb, an exercise program comprised of whatever rando movements home office puts on the main site is dumb, girls in xfit gear is NOT dumb, guys in xfit gear are dumb, zone is dumb, paleo is pretty dumb and kinesio tape is dumb.

Crossfit was the dumb womb from which a very cool movement of oly lifts, strength training and serious cardio was born. Those that remain in the womb are dumb.

lol so true

 

[APF]

"Crossfit" is just a name that may or may not appear over the door.

If the word "Crossfit" is as meaningless as branding the air, then why are you so vehemently defending what that word represents? Clearly it means something, "no true Scotsman" notwithstanding.

I am just confident that anyone complaining about "kipping" as a general term probably hasn't hit a ring MU yet.

Straw man. People were saying kipping chinups are dubious as an exercise--something you have only supported, not refuted.

 

[Frostburn]

I place my money on Cooter in the muscle up challenge.

Haha anyone would that follows the Fitness thread!

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Putting all my money on Cooter, every cent.

 

[SeanR1221]

eh... yeah, it's no less naive or dismissive than what happens with Crossfit. You are absolutely right. I think the biggest reason Crossfitters get so overzealous in terms of "globo gym" is because of the attention difference you DO receive at your typical Crossfit gym vs. your typical $20/month gym where you walk in, there's a bunch of machines, and a tiny free weight area in the back.

With that being said, there are plenty of training and conditioning programs at these gyms, including metcons and even conjugate periodization (i.e. "crossfit") that are excellent. Actually one of the most knowledgable trainers I ever met (mentioned in my first post here) was a boot camp trainer at Snap Fitness. He guided me to success on all of the oly lifts even though he used none of them in his boot camps (mostly body weight style boot camps focused on weight loss, etc)

If you are getting what you need from your $20/month membership, more f'ing power to you!!!! That's awesome, seriously. My gym has just an incredible community.. but I've slowly been working on putting together my own garage gym.. While I don't necessarily see myself leaving.. I'd certainly like to be able to do some strength (and lots of technique) work on my own some days without feeling the need to go to the gym to get it done. If you can get that sort of feeling from your gym, that's awesome.


Are you a gymnast? I can do like... ummmm... 9 unbroken.. I am just confident that anyone complaining about "kipping" as a general term probably hasn't hit a ring MU yet.

Look up iron sport gym in Pennsylvania.

THATS an amazing gym and doesn't cost anywhere near 100+ a month.

 

[ohhthegore]

How exactly do you suggest this muscle up contest be structured?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I place my money on Cooter in the muscle up challenge.

I can only do 7 muscle ups, so I don't know who else can do more than me besides Cooter.

 

[andycapps]

How exactly do you suggest this muscle up contest be structured?

Dis gon be gud

 

[borghe]

If the word "Crossfit" is as meaningless as branding the air, then why are you so vehemently defending what that word represents? Clearly it means something, "no true Scotsman" notwithstanding.

meh, your constant attempt to twist words into something else is getting annoying. nowhere did I say nor imply meaningless. on the contrary I said that as a branding and a business "leg up", it works. But it is not entirely representative of what crossfit gyms really are.. ie thousands of independently owned and operated gyms and boot camps led by instructors and coaches with as large a variety of backgrounds and methodologies as the scope of fitness itself.

As for my defense.. I don't defend "crossfit". I defend that there are truly exceptional gyms out there who use the power of the branding of crossfit, a business tool that causes them to be demonized and lumped together with shitty places by people who no more fuel to their arguments than a ton of shitty misconceptions and some filmsy articles attempting some sort of critique.

Straw man. People were saying kipping chinups are dubious as an exercise--something you have only supported, not refuted.

ex·er·cise
ˈeksərˌsīz
noun
1. activity requiring physical effort, carried out esp. to sustain or improve health and fitness.

YOUR (and others') argument is against kipping chinups as strength training and that Crossfitters exclusively do kipping chinups as a form of strength training. MY argument is that there is a shitload more to fitness than strength training, and the use of kipping chinups as either metabolic conditioning exercise or as a progression to another skill is just as valid as.. well, any other metcon exercise or progression skill.

But really.. we can keep doing this all weekend.

I can only do 7 muscle ups, so I don't know who else can do more than me besides Cooter.

I can, no bullshit. By a whopping two. So yeah, cooter wins by forfeit lol

I DID finally just get my regular grip (i.e. no false grip) MU this week. Didn't get me more of them, but my wrists were a shitload less shot after not coming down directly on my wrist bone 7-8 times when I (used to) have to maintain my false grip to connect them.

 

[blackflag]

Yeah her form isn't that bad, but she should not be lifting that much weight. There is no point in lifting that much weight. All it does is cause long term damage to joints, ligaments, bones, etc.

Oh lawd I'm not even gonna start with this one.

 

[blackflag]

FRIDAY 092713

AMRAP:
Post 1,000 word defense of xfit

/dead

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I can't do false grip at my gym.

 

[APF]

meh, your constant attempt to twist words into something else is getting annoying. nowhere did I say nor imply meaningless.

"I almost equate it to licensing and franchising air."
"'Crossfit' is just a name that may or may not appear over the door."

As for my defense.. I don't defend "crossfit". I defend that there are truly exceptional gyms out there who use the power of the branding of crossfit, a business tool that causes them to be demonized and lumped together with shitty places by people who no more fuel to their arguments than a ton of shitty misconceptions and some filmsy articles attempting some sort of critique.

If these are legitimate representatives of that brand (per your admissions), then it's not a "misconception." It's an accurate assessment.

ex·er·cise
ˈeksərˌsīz
noun
1. activity requiring physical effort, carried out esp. to sustain or improve health and fitness.

Aah, so different than skill development. Thanks for agreeing with me.

YOUR (and others') argument is against kipping chinups as strength training and that Crossfitters exclusively do kipping chinups as a form of strength training.

I'm saying kipping chinups are not a good exercise. Kipping itself may be a valuable skill to learn, eg as part of learning how to do salmon ladders or muscle up. But kipping chinups are not a good exercise, and should not be done for their own sake.

[...] the use of kipping chinups as either metabolic conditioning exercise

Awful idea.

or as a progression to another skill

Better idea, if the trainee is trying to learn a skill that requires it. But you wouldn't perform them as the clips in this thread have them performed. That's just not a rational method to learn movement patterns. You can't "serve two masters" here.

 

[borghe]

meh, I really am done with you. You quote me and then respond like I said something completely different than what you even quoted to make some point that you have no backing for except to just repeat the same thing ad nauseum until people either believe you or get sick of you.

This thread seems to be at a much more sane place.. well, aside from APF and his flawless perceptions of fitness and exercise.

Have a great weekend people. Kill some PRs.

 

[APF]

You seem to be more interested in attacking me as a person than defending your points.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

This thread just reaks of salt.

My sister does crossfit, but she also believes in acupuncture and god so I have made it my agenda to do things the more sensible way.

 

[yogloo]

Cooter. Can you do one handed pull ups? Just wondering.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Doing dead lifts and Olympic lifts for time and neglecting form is a terrible idea.

The fucking worst. Take your time, make sure your form is right, and do your lift.


I fucking hate Crossfit.

 

[effzee]

In my last crossfit class we learned how to do over head squats. With no weights and just the training bar I got the form down.

Then when it came to do it with weights I couldn't keep my balance/form correct. I took off the weights and did just the 45 pound bar. Much better.

Crossfit didn't kick me out, beat me up, or say anything to me other than keep working on your form.

As I said before, I have been to 5 classes plus 2 foundations classes. Nothing yet that made me question their motive, teaching method, or this supposed culture that pushes you to do stupid things.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

It really is a quality control problem. For example, my CF gym offers an Olympic lifting class, power lifting class, endurance (running in the summer, rowing in the winter), gymnastics, mobility and boxing classes on top of the regular wods. You also had to have one month of "onramp" and 3 days a week before you could do a regular class.

My cousin belong to one in Costa Rica and classes are literally just the WOD that HQ posts on their blog (which are really hard and aimed at experienced crossfitters) and the strength training part is up to you.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Muscle-up contest? I'm in.

I wager I can hit 10.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Muscle-up contest? I'm in.

I wager I can hit 10.

Nah, dude chickened out and left with his tail between his legs. no bet. ;(

 

[Cooter]

Cooter. Can you do one handed pull ups? Just wondering.

No. They are so hard! Especially for someone my size.

Well damn, I wanted to see this happen. Boogie wins! I don't do muscle up volume training anyway. My guess is I'm good for 8-12.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

No. They are so hard! Especially for someone my size.

Well damn, I wanted to see this happen. Boogie wins! I don't do muscle up volume training anyway. My guess is I'm good for 8-12.

Why don't you ever post in the nfl thread fellow niner?

 

[Cooter]

Why don't you ever post in the nfl thread fellow niner?

I do every once in a while. I don't do much posting anywhere with a job, three kids, and a wife in nursing school. Last post I made was after the Colts game when I admited the Niners have clearly taken a step back this year. Guy called me a bandwagoner and made fun of me for my lack of activity in the thread. Haha!

 

[TOM f'N CRUISE]

powerbomb training

 

[borghe]

Nah, dude chickened out and left with his tail between his legs. no bet. ;(

I never chickened out. We started actually putting up our numbers. If he can do 11-12 unbroken he wins. I start dying on the press from dip around 7-8. If people are interested in a bunch of us posting video or something , sure I don't care. But yeah based on current numbers he will win.

And yeah, one armed pull-ups are I would argue almost unfairly weighed against grip strength and soft tissue strength more than actual muscle strength. And this is from someone who would take gymnastics/body weight any day of the week over free weights. They are fucking hard. Out of everything in Convict Conditioning, one armed pullups and one armed handstand pushups are the two I'm furthest from.. And I'm actually closer on one armed handstand pushups (one arm with far lever and also practicing negatives with parallettes). There is more to the pullups than just sheer strength.

 

[MrToughPants]

Just reading about crossfit hurts my shoulders.

 

[Demon Ice]

FRIDAY 092713

AMRAP:
Post 1,000 word defense of xfit

Loooooooool

How exactly do you suggest this muscle up contest be structured?

Oh shit, this is exciting now.

 

[GabDX]

How exactly do you suggest this muscle up contest be structured?

How much can you bench press?

 

[RukusProvider]

I come to this thread for the gifs. So amazing!

 

[Nelo Ice]

How exactly do you suggest this muscle up contest be structured?

Wait what contest? And I too place my money on Cooter.

 

[blackflag]

My question is, how many muscle up Cooter can do with a 45lb plate strapped to his balls. Dude is strong.

 

[Cooter]

How much can you bench press?

Joke? We were talking about muscle ups!

 

[Devolution]

Still haven't seen the arguments about time negated. As in there's no reason to be rushing either during the sets and or doing them so often yet a lot of Crossfit encourages this behavior.

 

[blackflag]

Still haven't seen the arguments about time negated. As in there's no reason to be rushing either during the sets and or doing them so often yet a lot of Crossfit encourages this behavior.

This is my main problem with it. There are plenty of things that are proper to do for time, dead lifting isn't one of them.

 

[borghe]

Still haven't seen the arguments about time negated. As in there's no reason to be rushing either during the sets and or doing them so often yet a lot of Crossfit encourages this behavior.

The point of "time" going decades back comes down to low weight high volume reps for speed training different fibers of your muscles.

Also "time" in a workout is a subjective measurement. If you are doing conjugate periodization with say a heavy lift at low reps in there (squat, oly, whatever), most individuals (crossfiter or not) are not going to rip through them. But by that same measure, going through say 5 heavy reps at :xx and later on going through the same 5 heavy reps at less than :xx shows improvement. It's not that you are TRYING to get through them faster. It's that as a result of being better trained you just DO get through them faster.

Even going back to straight up legit oly lifting, there are PLENTY of cases where trainers will drop weights on deadlifts and squats because, even though they have great form, the tempo is wrong to carry that explosiveness to the oly lifts.

I mean if all you want to go for is strength and see those weights increase, more power to you. But there are plenty of other ways your muscles can be and are activated (ie power, endurance, flexibility, speed, etc)

Going for speed is not "rushing". It's going for speed. Entirely different weights, reps and goals.

Going "for time" while heavy isn't rushing or going for speed. It's simply using time as a component of progress.

 

[captmorgan]

Wait Im confused about this picture what does it have to do with crossfit? it looks like a guy doing high jumps that slips on the back of a fire truck. Does cross fit have a fire truck jumping regiment? Cause that would be pretty awesome.

 

[APF]

The point of "time" going decades back comes down to low weight high volume reps for speed training different fibers of your muscles.

High intensity low volume work trains ST fibers; this is just basic physiology. Per the size principle they get recruited and fatigued (otherwise FT motor units would not be recruited), therefore they get trained.

Also "time" in a workout is a subjective measurement. If you are doing conjugate periodization with say a heavy lift at low reps in there (squat, oly, whatever), most individuals (crossfiter or not) are not going to rip through them. But by that same measure, going through say 5 heavy reps at :xx and later on going through the same 5 heavy reps at less than :xx shows improvement. It's not that you are TRYING to get through them faster. It's that as a result of being better trained you just DO get through them faster.

Even going back to straight up legit oly lifting, there are PLENTY of cases where trainers will drop weights on deadlifts and squats because, even though they have great form, the tempo is wrong to carry that explosiveness to the oly lifts.

This isn't what people are talking about. They mean workouts where people are eg instructed do as many reps as possible with a certain period, or to work up to xRM in y time, or to do rounds of exercises a, b, c in d minutes. You're describing trainees who are concerned with bar speed; these trainees do not do high-volume work with these weights, even though they are relatively low intensity, because they don't want fatigue to compromise power generation. Generating fatigue interferes with learning and improving movement patterns, which is why eg you don't want to do high-rep kipping chinups if you're trying to learn how to do muscle ups.