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[Eel O'Brian]

http://cruncheons.podbean.com/mf/web/5246sc/Cruncheons38.mp3

We start off the first episode of the new year by doing a bit of 2013 speculating (with many sidetracks) , then move on to Doug sharing the list of components for his HTPC build, and finally wrap things up with an in-depth discussion of Persona 4 Golden!

(2:25) 2013 Expectations

(53:30) Vita vs. tablets

(1:11:30) Kindle basic model (2012) mini-review & Kindle Fire HD 8.9 talk

(1:17:45) Doug's HTPC Build - I'll insert the component list here when he posts it

(1:48:15) Persona 4 in-depth discussion, and a father's viewpoint

Talk to you again soon!

https://twitter.com/TheCruncheons

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Cruncheons/119160438137583

 

[GhaleonQ]

Game forecasting, technology debate, and alternative discussion on a Japanese re-release sacred cow.

This is basically the most illicit nerd porn to me. ...Well, not the MOST illicit. ...Not even...ugh...gross.

I am very much looking forward to this episode. There.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Doug's discussion of P4 from a father's perspective is one of the most interesting segments we've ever casted. If you are an occasional listener, do take the time to give it a go.

I think we got way too ramble ramble on the first segment but we can't help but prognosticate a bit at the start of the year. We'll stick to dick jokes and conspicuous consumption for the rest of the year-I promise!

 

[HamPster PamPster]

I'm really interested in the Persona 4 x Fatherhood segment. I have a kid about the same age as Doug so I love it when he talks about being a parent. I'm curious what he has to say on this topic. Especially since, while I've never played Persona 4, I don't believe parent-child relationships are a major part of the game

 

[jello44]

I'm really interested in the Persona 4 x Fatherhood segment. I have a kid about the same age as Doug so I love it when he talks about being a parent. I'm curious what he has to say on this topic. Especially since, while I've never played Persona 4, I don't believe parent-child relationships are a major part of the game

There is one... sorta. Part of it is a single father trying to raise his daughter but he's usually busy due to being a detective.

 

[Gattsu25]

Downloading now.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I'm really interested in the Persona 4 x Fatherhood segment. I have a kid about the same age as Doug so I love it when he talks about being a parent. I'm curious what he has to say on this topic. Especially since, while I've never played Persona 4, I don't believe parent-child relationships are a major part of the game

It's not so much about the relationship in-game as it is the relationship between Doug and his daughter as she plays the game (which he has also played), and the way that the game has an outlook and perspective that is pretty unique among games.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

I always enjoy listening to the Cruncheons stuff, even though I'm hesitant to trust their tech and game impressions ( distinctly remember Doug praising a Nexus tablet one episode and then one or two episodes later casually mentioning he'd gotten rid of it due to it having too many technical issues). They are damn funny, however.

Having just finished Persona 4 Golden I can't really imagine letting a little kid playing it with personas like Incubus and Mara in it, not to mention the whole dungeon with a

Spoiler

stripper

theme...

 

[PowderedToast]

as somebody who doesn't wax about the industry all that often the predictions segment was pretty fascinating to me, and i'll join in with the praise for doug's story about his daughter. it was both insightful and heartwarming. i appreciated that you took a moment to clarify your feelings on the games' content as a parent, aswell

really good episode !

 

[Fragamemnon]

Having just finished Persona 4 Golden I can't really imagine letting a little kid playing it with personas like Incubus and Mara in it, not to mention the whole dungeon with a

Spoiler

stripper

theme...

Is any of that really that bad though? I don't think any of that is really all that bad for a 8+ year old plus to see. I wholeheartedly agree with Doug that I'd have a much bigger issue with P3P's "gun to the head" imagery than any of that stuff. P4's overall core value of finding strength in knowing yourself and forming friendships you rely on easily trumps out any of the midly lewd iconography in the game.

I don't have any kids, but if I heard that my niece or nephew was playing this game, I'd be super happy for reasons completely unrelated to them playing video games-I'd want them to have these values presented to them in such a compelling package. It's the same reason I bought about twenty of Andy Runton's Owly books to hand out to my friend's 4-6 year olds (and their parents!) this year for Christmas. It's the values that I feel we want to pass on to our children,presented in a way that everyone can enjoy.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

Mara is a giant, green, veiny penis. Mildly lewd?

 

[Fragamemnon]

Mara is a giant, green, veiny penis. Mildly lewd?

I played the game, used that Persona, and didn't even really notice. Honestly, though, is there anything really lewd about phallic iconography when it's decoupled from any sexual context (like it is in the game)? I really don't think there is, and I'm pretty much the biggest prude I personally know.

 

[Rufus]

Time is finite. Thank you for bringing that up. Without any irony.

Mara is a giant, green, veiny penis. Mildly lewd?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honen_Matsuri

 

[Drinky Crow]

she's played through a full cycle (on easy) and has started a new game plus since she didn't max out marie and missed the secret dungeon and the golden epilogue. she had mara in her compendium, but never said anything. i'm not even sure she knows what a wang ACTUALLY looks like, but since it wasn't a "girl persona" she didn't have interest in it. (i'm not dad who does the "bathe with your kids" creepy shit. fuck hippies.) her end game personas were surt, lachesis, decarabia, some creepy-looking shadow faced witch one, and some high-level hindu priestess-y looking one. her favorite one was dis, she said.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

I played the game, used that Persona, and didn't even really notice. Honestly, though, is there anything really lewd about phallic iconography when it's decoupled from any sexual context (like it is in the game)? I really don't think there is, and I'm pretty much the biggest prude I personally know.

Now you're just being a bit silly by saying you didn't even notice. I mean, really?

At any rate, parents are entitled to raise their kids however they want, I merely think there's many more compelling, age-appropriate games an intelligent 8-year-old would find just as entertaining without having to worry about the more adult aspects of the presentation, Even in Japan itself, Persona 4 is not aimed at elementary schoolers, and the TV adaptation aired late at night for a reason.

 

[Blast Processing]

Now you're just being a bit silly by saying you didn't even notice. I mean, really?

At any rate, parents are entitled to raise their kids however they want, I merely think there's many more compelling, age-appropriate games an intelligent 8-year-old would find just as entertaining without having to worry about the more adult aspects of the presentation, Even in Japan itself, Persona 4 is not aimed at elementary schoolers, and the TV adaptation aired late at night for a reason.

"Age appropriate" almost universally means it's not. It's more likely to be insipid pap lucky to attract the interest of a kid half the age of those it's recommended for. And for an eight year old able to play Persona? That'd be like a thirty-something being legitimately interested in Mario for the fiction.

 

[NIN90]

Awesome.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

"Age appropriate" almost universally means it's not. It's more likely to be insipid pap lucky to attract the interest of a kid half the age of those it's recommended for. And for an eight year old able to play Persona? That'd be like a thirty-something being legitimately interested in Mario for the fiction.

You talk being able to play Persona on easy mode is some sort of intellectual achievement. It's not that an 8 year old cant grasp the gameplay mechanics of it (they're not that hard), it's some dubious content within the game itself.

And I think there is plenty of quality gaming available that is appropriate for that age level. I don't see while you can just dismiss ALL of it so offhandedly.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

Excellent podcast as usual [/banana riding]

The 2013 predictions were fun. One thing you forgot to mention was streaming services which I think will help drive console sales. Of all the things I own or subscribe to, Netflix gets by far the most use - and I still think consoles are the best way to deliver it. I have a cheap roku but don’t really enjoy using it. If Microsoft or Sony (probably not Sony :lol) comes out the gate next gen offering Roku levels of channels and video apps I bet they will be fine.

Either way sales will decline from this gen and you guys are spot on about 3rd parties - they are fucked. In part because all the consoles people are buying will be mostly used for video. That said I still think it will be big enough market to get plenty of games. The wild card in all this is the Apple TV

Also never under estimate the selling power of plastic peripherals. This generation we had plastic instruments, kinect, skylanders, wii fit, etc. Something will probably pop up next gen that will drive some sales.

---

“Age appropriate” is ruining children’s entertainment. Obviously it’s a good goal but too often it just results in dumbing stuff down. In my very limited experience kids are starved for more meaningful and challenging content. It’s rare that something can be non-violent and non-explicit while still feeling adult. Kids want nothing more than to feel older.

I can’t speak to persona 4 specifically but I completely understand how a parent would be okay with their kid playing that, which might have some slightly inappropriate stuff, over the latest Disney Channel show which is white washed until nothing is left.

Also, you can’t fight high school man. You can add “… in high school” and sell it to preteen girls.

On the other hand I hate meaningful and challenging content and just want to watch cartoons of people beating things up

 

[Son of Cervantes]

I don't buy the idea that "age appropriate" automatically has to mean that something is bland or dumbed down. That said, I don't have any kids, and obviously Doug as a parent is free to choose what he thinks is appropriate for his daughter to play.

I won't get into my personal opinion regarding P4's content or the appropriateness/inappropriateness of an 8-year-old playing it, and instead I'll focus on something else interesting mentioned in the podcast, which is how Doug is essentially watching the birth of a fangirl, as his kid buys the Persona figurines and obsessively pores over the strategy guide and becomes attached to the characters. Heh, before you know it, she'll be ordering the action figures for the Persona 4 characters that have recently come out, and posting pics of them in the "Geek GAF figure models" thread, lol. Something similar happened with my teenage cousin when she played through Persona 3 FES years back. She ended up hunting on eBay for Persona 3 plastic statues (which he probably still has in a closet somewhere), Persona 3 tarot cards, soundtracks, etc. It was very weird to see this kid who at most casually played Mario games once in a while slowly evolve into an anime/JRPG fangirl...

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Persona 4 (aside from some of the new fanservicey content) is pretty tame for an M-rated game. If he's cool with the crude language and humour there's really not too much that's objectionable for an 8-year old girl if she's mature for her age. Stuff like a dungeon being based on a strip club is more character driven than intended to be dirty. For a video game there are some good messages there for a young person to think about.

 

[mrklaw]

when you say P4G in depth, are you spoilery? If so I'll hold off for a bit.

 

[Rufus]

when you say P4G in depth, are you spoilery? If so I'll hold off for a bit.

They don't spoil anything, listen away.

 

[WrenchNinja]

That was some pretty insightful talk on P4. Thinking about it, yeah, the game does have a lot of great themes that would be important for a child to learn about. I hadnt considered how a child would view those Rise and Kanji moments but I suppose they would just look at it as another funny something in the game.

 

[kiunchbb]

If I never played Persona 4, but plan to play it soon, will this podcast spoil me?

 

[archnemesis]

If I never played Persona 4, but plan to play it soon, will this podcast spoil me?

No, not really. They only spoil the theme of some dungeons.

 

[Rufus]

P3 has a lot of great growing up stuff as well, but it has the whole gun to the head thing which obviously carries different weight in the US. From what I remember it's a darker and more serious game overall. Many characters (more than in P4?) have to deal with death and the trauma of it in a more immediate way and the plot ends up revolving around Death itself. It takes itself more serious as well.
Ultimately there's always an optimistic note to all of it, but it's much more bitter sweet than P4, I would say.

 

[Drinky Crow]

That was some pretty insightful talk on P4. Thinking about it, yeah, the game does have a lot of great themes that would be important for a child to learn about. I hadnt considered how a child would view those Rise and Kanji moments but I suppose they would just look at it as another funny something in the game.

well, kids don't have a frame of reference for our sociocultural views on sexuality, so to them the rise/kanji bits are at best silly and at worst just plain incomprehensible. what they DO understand is the importance of having friends and building bonds and learning how to connect with one another to do great things and have shared adventures. it's cute seeing how sympathetic she is to rise and kanji -- and less cute to see her early crush on brosuke. :-\

now shadow teddy: that's some spooky-lookin' shit! she made me fight it on her first cycle because it creeped her out too much.

she also thinks cross-dressing is awesome and hilarious

 

[Drinky Crow]

Persona 4 (aside from some of the new fanservicey content) is pretty tame for an M-rated game. If he's cool with the crude language and humour there's really not too much that's objectionable for an 8-year old girl if she's mature for her age. Stuff like a dungeon being based on a strip club is more character driven than intended to be dirty. For a video game there are some good messages there for a young person to think about.

my daughter CHIDED the game every time one of the characters said "shit" or "damn." one of my early parenting techniques was to "empower" her to chide me or her mother when we cuss (we're kinda pottymouths), because as a high-functioning autistic kid she needed some aspect of the family where she felt in control -- it really helps her deal with her oppositional-defiant manifestations. she herself NEVER cusses.

again, ain't sayin' p4 is good for EVERY kid, but it's been safe for mine, and engendered all sorts of interesting and useful family conversations. all kids are different, and they're all looking for different handles on the world -- and they all have vastly different interests. i'll scope what games my daughter is allowed to play (thankfully, she has no interest in guns or violence), but, if they meet basic criteria for what i believe is acceptable for the stage of development she is at, then i ain't gonna stop her either. this is why i endure nintendo dogs. :-(

 

[Son of Cervantes]

Yes, as I stated before, you have the right to raise your child as you see fit...I hope she doesn't get interested in other Shin Megami Tensei games after this, though! The closest to another age appropriate title in the series is probably Demikids!

 

[szaromir]

Enjoyed this episode, as always. Great job guys!